Help!!! First time testing readings at 61 and 69

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Vhens2211

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Tested with the Confrim relion today. Readings at 61, and 69. Ozzie was checked yesterday at the vet and he was at 345. He started on ProZinc last Monday at 2 units. Food also changed to all wet low carb

I called the vet because he was due for insulin. We are going to err on the side of caution and not give the insulin tonight, and will give in the morning.

Is the meter defective? Did I do something wrong?

Should I get another confirm meter or switch?

Also, Oz was quite traumatized by the poking.... he went to hide after the second reading.


Any advice to make things go easier? Momma is a little stressed out. She's not sure what to do come morning even if my kitty will allow me to test him again.
 
Hi!

Do you give insulin at 12 hour intervals? When in the cycle did you get the test? If you tested and he was 61 and 69 at the time he was due insulin...DO NOT give any insulin. When during the cycle was the 345 taken?

We normally give insulin at 12 hour intervals and we test before dosing. We never recommend early in the dance for anyone to give insulin at levels below 200. Please tell us more about when the readings/test were recorded.

Glad you posted and did not give insulin.

Kim
 
A few more thoughts.......A one unit increase is too big. A dose increase from 2 to 3 units is a tremendous increase. Also a change to low carb food will make a big difference in a cat's bg. Please share more information about Oz with us.
 
Breeeaath!!! Good that you didn't give the insulin.

For someone just starting out on insulin we have a NO SHOOT number of 200 until you have enough tests in your spreadsheet to know how they are responding to the insulin.

With the food switch to low carb wet their insulin needs can drop dramatically over night. So when you do get a reading over 200 I would only give 1 unit and see how that goes.

Welcome to our group.
 
Hi, and welcome to PZI!

I did see your post in the Health forum, but glad you came on over here. This is a fairly small group, but very active and always pleased to greet a new member.

You did nothing wrong, is what I'm thinking. If you got two readings that close together, it sounds like the meter is accurate. To be sure, you can poke your finger and test your blood. I've done it and so have most people (let us know what reading you get).

Question- what was Ozzie's last test before that one? Was it the 345 at the vet? I'm trying to get a feel for why the vet bumped him up to 3 units, from 2 which is already higher than "normal" for newly diagnosed sugarcats. Most vets recommend 1u twice a day (BID in our lingo). On diagnosis day, do you know what his BG number was?

Not shooting at 69 was 100% the right choice. 3 units into a number that low could have been disastrous.
Oz will become less traumatized as each day goes by. The key is post-poke treats. Always have a supply of low-carb treats on hand. Kitties get one every time you stick them with a lancet or a needle. Eventually they learn that pokes mean treats, and they associate the routine with the added bennie of feeling better. Just about every cat reacts that way to testing at first. And just about every cat ends up coming to you to remind you it's test (treat) time within a week or two. Bob hears the test case zipper, and he's purring, rubbing my legs, and laying down at my feet waiting for his shrimp. The test is a minor inconvenience if the reward is a fresh shrimp!

Tomorrow morning when you test him before his shot, if possible, post the number here before shooting. What time would that be? Maybe one of us can schedule themselves to check in around that time. In general, we would tell you to not shoot on any number less than 200. Most likely, the group consensus will be that you should start with a dose of 1 unit. That establishes a baseline for what the insulin does for Oz. Would you be able to test him 5 or 6 hours after that? PZI reaches peak effectiveness usually 5-6 hours after the shot. At that time, Ozzie's BG would be at the low point in his cycle. Knowing that number is the key to how a dose works. A combination of his pre-shot numbers and his nadir number is used to determine what sort of dose will work best at this point in his treatment. As time goes by, that dose might increase or decrease, but it usually takes a few days on the same dose for him to "settle in" to the dose, and then you can determine which direction the dosage needs to go.

OK, so again, welcome to our little group. I am sure some of the others (some of whom have already replied in Health) will chime in soon.

Carl and Bob in SC
 
Thanks all for the replies!!!!

Ok... just got home. Picked up a Relion Micro meter in addition to the Confirm I have already.

Tested my sugar levels. First, the Micro came in at 59. The Confirm at 80. Retested again, and both the Micro and the Confirm matched at 80.

Tried testing my non-diabetic cat, but he wasn't having it.

Here's Ozzie's background:

Bloodwork on 9/23. Diagnosis on 9/24. Started wet-low carb diet immediatley

Monday 9/29 started on ProZinc at 2 units. 6am and 6pm doses

Tuesday 10/6 -Blood Glucose test at the vets at around 4pm. Glucose 375.

Told to increase to 3 units, 6pm dose on 10/6 was at 3. Dose this morning 10/7 at 3pm. Tested before class at 5pm, got low readings. No insulin.

Gonna test around 6am... have to leave for work at 7am. So posting shortly after 6am.

I REALLLLLLYYYYY hope Ozzie cooperates tomorrow morning before I go to work, and that his levels are ok. If they are still low, I am going to forgo insulin again and see if I can get him checked after work so we can see what the issue is.
 
I think Carl got the key points, but welcome! You'll be surprised how quickly you get used to the routine and not stress so much. Good, helpful bunch of folks here.
 
Where are you located?....just wondering about the time zone---I am an early riser and if you are on EST...I will check in at your test time!
 
OK, first the good news.... If you tested at 80, you're okay!
So the meter is working okay. In case you didn't know, meters only have to be accurate +/- 20%.
A 80 reading, -20% would be a 64.
A 59 reading, +20%..... a 72. So both meters are within a 20% range of each other. The "actual" number was probably in the high 60s. Diabetes is not an issue for you!

That means the 60s you got on Ozzie were pretty much the same reading. Go with whichever meter you are most comfortable using. The confirm is also a relion made meter? Same strips for both?

Alright, I know that I won't be awake at 6am (that was last weeks' schedule - this week I'm working a later shift).

If nobody is on the board in the AM, my advice is that if you get under 200, no shot. If over 200, shoot 1 unit.

Then tomorrow afternoon we can help to figure out what's next. Any time you can get a test in is helpful in figuring out how the insulin is working. The most important are the two tests you do before giving insulin. Next would be the "nadir" test around +6 hours from the shot. But anytime you get a test, just let us know how many hours it was taken in relation to his last shot, like +3 or +8 or whatever. Eventually a pattern will take shape. You can put them all in a spreadsheet that anyone here can look at. One of the other members can help with that. (I never did one online) The Spreadsheet is an awesome way to store all Ozzie's data, and makes for a great tool for later analysis.

Carl
 
Morning all!

Took Ozzie's BG while he was in his bed this morning (went a little easier that way). It was at 372, so I went ahead and gave him insulin.

I'll check it again before his 6pm dose too....

I feel bad though, looking at Ozzie's ear it looks like there isn't really anywhere else left to prick! (i know thats probably not the case). Can I poke him elsewhere?

He still has a shaved arm from his blood testing 2 weeks ago.


Thanks again to all who have shared advice with me. It's comforting to know that I can turn here for help! :)

Gotta get ready for work!

Much love all,

Vivian and Ozzie.
 
Looks good Vivian.

You can put a little neosporin on Ozzie’s ears if they look a little rough. His ears will get used to all this craziness, probably builds up some scar tissue or something, but it will get easier. My understanding is you can test on their foot pad too, but that always scared me because of them being in their litter box, I worried about infection, and it seemed like it would be harder to hold the cat to test.

You are off to a good start. Good day and good numbers to you.
 
Thanks:)

I put some neosporin on this morning. I feel bad, he has a little scab on his ear from yesterdays ordeal!!
 

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Welcome! Good job on the testing and on not giving insulin. After you get blood from the ear if you squeeze it for 30 seconds or so, that helps to not scab.
Sue is very good with spread sheet help, or go to the tech forum.
Keep posting and asking questions, we like to help.
 
Here is the info on the spreadsheet: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

We have had trouble with Google playing nice with FDMB. If you can't get the spreadsheet to load with the url given in the directions, try this. Sign onto Google and go to Google docs. Search templates for FDMB spreadsheet or FD spreadsheet. (Some search engines like one of the searches better than the other.... :?: ) When and if you get the template, choose Use this template and then follow the directions.

If you have trouble, send me an email. I am away from my home computer until next week, but I may still be able to help.

I hope you saw my post on Health to not give the regular dose this am as his bg levels would have been artificially inflated by the 12 hours without insulin.

Until you get your spreadsheet set up, you can use this format so we can see your history

amps (morning preshot number) # of units given
+6 (6 hours after the morning shot)
pmps (evening preshot number)

So it might look like this (but with your numbers)
amps 365 1 unit
+6 221
pmps 342 1 unit

Glad you are here. As others have said, more people are on in the am and pm than the middle of the day. If you ever have an emergency, be sure to post on Health.
 
The dose advicewas 1u if over 200
I think that's what happened..
carl
 
It looks like you are gone again. If you come back on to check, is there any way someone could go over to your house and just check on him? If they can, have them leave out some food so if he goes lower, he can eat and bring himself up.

He probably will be fine. We are just concerned that he had a low number at his shot time yesterday, so he might have gone very low during the day. If you gave 3 units again this am, you could be setting up the same pattern today.
 
I just tried calling my mother, she's not home.

My landlord said he'd be home maybe at 2pm and he would go up and check on him.
 
Good. Again, probably worrying for nothing, but better to be safe than sorry.

You need to reduce the dose. Your 60 at preshot time means your dose is too high. You want a dose that will allow you to shoot twice daily. And you don't want to shoot under 200.

Come on tonight and get some advice on dose for your evening shot. It may be in the 60s again so you may have to skip. But please get some advice before shooting.

Here is some homework: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799
 
Just tested Oz 5 mins ago.

Blood reading at 215.

Due for his insulin now.

He had some food at 4:30.

Called the vet and he said to give him 2 1/2 units. Haven't done anything yet though.
 
carlinsc said:
...my advice is that if you get under 200, no shot. If over 200, shoot 1 unit.

Then tomorrow afternoon we can help to figure out what's next. Any time you can get a test in is helpful in figuring out how the insulin is working. The most important are the two tests you do before giving insulin. Next would be the "nadir" test around +6 hours from the shot. But anytime you get a test, just let us know how many hours it was taken in relation to his last shot, like +3 or +8 or whatever. Eventually a pattern will take shape. You can put them all in a spreadsheet that anyone here can look at. One of the other members can help with that. (I never did one online) The Spreadsheet is an awesome way to store all Ozzie's data, and makes for a great tool for later analysis.

Carl
Click to expand...

Hi Vivian, In the absence of the regular PZI users, my suggestion is that if Oz were my kitty I would take Carl's advice above and shoot only 1 unit if the number is above 200 (and you just got a 215). If the number is under 200, I would not shoot anything.

I suggest you wait for one more user to weigh in before shooting tonight, if you can hold off that long. I know it's difficult to hear conflicting advice than your vet's but the problem is that we don't know how high or how low Oz is going with these doses. If you could manage to get one or two mid-cycle test in addition to the pre-shot numbers it will help everyone (your vet included) to work with you on finding the best dose for Oz and keep him safe.

Best to you and Oz.
 
Thanks Laura.

If I do give him one unit, I could test him again in a few hours to see.

I was planning on doing a curve over the weekend when I am home.
 
I agree with Carl and Laura on the 1 unit, but let me emphasize that I am no expert. I have been using PZI on my cat for only 9 months and some change. And I have a weird cat :)

Actually I misunderstood and thought that’s what you shot this morning. Gather data as much as you can and that will help people advise you on tweaking the dose further, but for right now I’d def say go with the 1 unit if over 200.
 
Hi Vivian, Absolutely, getting in spot check at 2 or 3 hours post shot will give you an idea of where he is headed. If you do, please post up your results so the regular PZI folks can give some advice.
 
Hi Vivian,
I think you are getting lots of good advice. We suggest 200 as the no shoot cutoff for new people (without a lot of data) and you were not much above that. We also suggest starting at 1U two times a day, with very small increases .1or.2 as indicated from the data. That way you keep your cat safe and you also do not jump over what might be a perfect dose. To really know what is going on you need to have a preshot reading before any dose, and also some mid cycle numbers, so you know how low the insulin is taking him. Otherwise you are shooting blind.
It is great that you are testing---many people have a lot of trouble mastering the testing---it literally took me weeks!
 
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