? Help! Confused readings

Mimis mom

Mimis mom

Member Since 2019
My cats last 4 blood sugar readings (every 12 hrs) was 474, 390, 230 and now 50
I do it at 9:30 am and 9:30 pm

I can’t seem to figure out her numbers.
I want to try and dose her an hour early because I have to leave and she’s only 50.

current dose is 1.5

because of her elevated levels I went just a teensy bit more towards 2 units today because of how high it was the last two times.
She’s also not eaten a ton today...
I can’t feed her 4-6 times a day, I don’t know how anyone can, and I’m feeling like a bad fur mom...

should I dose her?
 
Rosa, 68 is the take action number for the AlphaTrak2 meter. Would you please get another test right now? Do you have medium carb food and high carb food, as well as some Karo syrup or honey on hand?
 
Do not dose early tonight. 50 is too low. On an AlphaTrak, the take action number is 68.

I realize that DKA is in Mimi's recent past, and am hoping that someone with DKA experience comes along before your usual shot time of 9:30pm EST.

I am assuming that the test of 50 was around 7:30 pm which would be +10.
 
Yes, you do not want to shoot one hour earlier with a 50 on an Alpha track. You need to made sure she is up over 68. Since you don’t have a Spread sheet with data attached to your signature, it’s hard to give you dosing advice , but I can say with absolute certainty, please don’t dose her when she is this low.

I’m assuming she was diagnosed sometimes around your member fate? I would not give her any insulin until she comes up over 150. That would mean you would dose her 12 hours later.

could you set up a spread sheet and attach to your signature? If you need help , please yell and someone will help you.

AND she had earned a reduction. To 1.25 units with that 50 drop. Using an alpha track the reduction point is 68.
 
PS. when she had come up over 150 please do give her insulin. With the reduction. ( new dose 1.25). Skipping insulin, Is not a good idea for kitties recently DKA. The recipe for DKA is :

not enough insulin + a systemic infection + in appetence.

Remember, If you shoot late, the next insulin shot is 12 hours later.
 
Rosa, where did you go? You posted a 911, which is an emergency beacon, and we jumped to help you out because you were getting an unusually low BG number that you needed help with. We are concerned for Mimi.

Regarding feeding smaller more frequent meals, get a timed feeder. PetSafe and CatMate both make 2 and 5 dish feeders just for this purpose. Many members manage those frequent feedings in this way.
 
Mimis mom said:
I want to try and dose her an hour early because I have to leave and she’s only 50.
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Also, when you move the dosing time, you can only safely move 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes in 1 day, not an hour. Also, Please do not leave the house with your cat showing a 50 on the glucomètre, that is not safe!
 
Hi I was waiting to test again before I had to leave for a little bit. She was 50 but also hadn’t eaten in 7-8 hours. I fed her, she was starving, she devoured all of the food, and I tested her bout 15 later and she went up to 60.
She’s acting completely normal, not hypo at all, and never acts hypo even when she is that low. She’s hit 34, 43, before, and then will hit 474. Yes I know in need to make a spread sheet- I attempted to and it says I need permission to through google docs
 
Mimis mom said:
Hi I was waiting to test again before I had to leave for a little bit. She was 50 but also hadn’t eaten in 7-8 hours. I fed her, she was starving, she devoured all of the food, and I tested her bout 15 later and she went up to 60.
She’s acting completely normal, not hypo at all, and never acts hypo even when she is that low. She’s hit 34, 43, before, and then will hit 474. Yes I know in need to make a spread sheet- I attempted to and it says I need permission to through google docs
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I know I shouldn’t have left but she’s acting normal and I have friends in town visiting.. I know I sound irresponsible but I also don’t want to act overly paranoid, especially when the vets instructions from the beginning were not to test her (not necessary) and to only respond if she’s not eating or acting “drunk” which she’s acting totally fine and hungry.
 
Mimis mom said:
She’s acting completely normal, not hypo at all, and never acts hypo even when she is that low. She’s hit 34, 43, before, and then will hit 474
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Some cats show no symptoms whatsoever and then when they do, it might be too late. Rover never showed symptoms either, then one day at he did, and it wasn't the lowest number he'd ever had. It was as if he was blind. We loaded him up with corn syrup and drove like crazy to the ER vet. Please be vigilant.

Mimis mom said:
I attempted to and it says I need permission to through google docs
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@Marje and Gracie said she would help you with the spreadsheet if you have problems. Click on her name or photo, then click "start a conversation"

Spreadsheet instructions are here. You have to make a copy of the spreadsheet template and then work on the copy.
 
Many cats are not symptomatic....until they are and then it's a rush to the ER vet. 60 still isn't a great number, and now you can expect a "bounce" later. You will see high numbers from her body releasing stored sugar and hormones to save her life when she hit the low number. Do not be surprised or upset about this. Better high than too low. Please test again in about 20 minutes.
 
Rosa, your vet was wrong. It is necessary and it's critical that we all test our diabetic pets. If you were diabetic, you would be told to test before every shot and then during the cycle between shots. If you were diabetic and your blood sugar dropped, you would be aware of it and take action, you would eat or drink something to bring your blood sugar up. Your cat is aware but can't tell you. That's why she ate ravenously...trying to bring her blood sugar up.
 
So if she ate it’s a good sign that she’s getting her BS up and should be ok right? I am not home at the moment. She’s been lower than this before and been fine. So what does this mean? Her dose blood sugar is regulating? I’m so confused. I know I need to do a spread sheet
 
Mimis mom said:
Hi I was waiting to test again before I had to leave for a little bit. She was 50 but also hadn’t eaten in 7-8 hours. I fed her, she was starving, she devoured all of the food, and I tested her bout 15 later and she went up to 60.
She’s acting completely normal, not hypo at all, and never acts hypo even when she is that low. She’s hit 34, 43, before, and then will hit 474. Yes I know in need to make a spread sheet- I attempted to and it says I need permission to through google docs
Click to expand...
Again, please read the instructions because you do not need permission through google to make a copy of the template. I’ve set it up so members don’t need permission otherwise, I wouldn’t have a life :):p I’ve offered my help a couple times. There’s not much I can do for you insofar as the SS if you don’t contact me and our ability to help you with dosing is also limited without one.

Please understand that watching your cat to see if she is ok does not mean her BG won’t be low. My kitty was in the 20s several times and appeared totally normal. We also had a very long-time member here whose cat was very steady and predictable for years. Until he wasn’t and he died from a hypo. I’m not trying to scare you but just want to pass on lessons learned here.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Many cats are not symptomatic....until they are and then it's a rush to the ER vet. 60 still isn't a great number, and now you can expect a "bounce" later. You will see high numbers from her body releasing stored sugar and hormones to save her life when she hit the low number. Do not be surprised or upset about this. Better high than too low. Please test again in about 20 minutes.
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so the “bounce” could explain why it’s going SOOOO high? Just a few days ago it was 34 at the nadar then 337 right before her night dose. The vets were all confused why she jumps like that. But it could also be because they don’t understand diabetes
She’s also on raw now- a different one then before because the one before I had her on had squash, carrots, and apples!!!! It made up 8 percent of the food!! The brand is Primal
I switched to Vital essentials which is only turkey, turkey heart, turkey liver, goats milk, herring oil
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Again, please read the instructions because you do not need permission through google to make a copy of the template. I’ve set it up so members don’t need permission otherwise, I wouldn’t have a life :):p I’ve offered my help a couple times. There’s not much I can do for you insofar as the SS if you don’t contact me and our ability to help you with dosing is also limited without one.

Please understand that watching your cat to see if she is ok does not mean her BG won’t be low. My kitty was in the 20s several times and appeared totally normal. We also had a very long-time member here whose cat was very steady and predictable for years. Until he wasn’t and he died from a hypo. I’m not trying to scare you but just want to pass on lessons learned here.
Click to expand...

So I shouldn’t have left? I don’t know what to do, Im currently out to dinner... :( I know how that sounds..
 
Mimis mom said:
so the “bounce” could explain why it’s going SOOOO high? Just a few days ago it was 34 at the nadar then 337 right before her night dose. The vets were all confused why she jumps like that. But it could also be because they don’t understand diabetes
She’s also on raw now- a different one then before because the one before I had her on had squash, carrots, and apples!!!! It made up 8 percent of the food!! The brand is Primal
I switched to Vital essentials which is only turkey, turkey heart, turkey liver, goats milk, herring oil
Click to expand...
Why is she too low? What could have been a reason!??
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Again, please read the instructions because you do not need permission through google to make a copy of the template. I’ve set it up so members don’t need permission otherwise, I wouldn’t have a life :):p I’ve offered my help a couple times. There’s not much I can do for you insofar as the SS if you don’t contact me and our ability to help you with dosing is also limited without one.

Please understand that watching your cat to see if she is ok does not mean her BG won’t be low. My kitty was in the 20s several times and appeared totally normal. We also had a very long-time member here whose cat was very steady and predictable for years. Until he wasn’t and he died from a hypo. I’m not trying to scare you but just want to pass on lessons learned here.
Click to expand...
What did you do when your kitty hit the 20s - also what causes that????
 
Mimis mom said:
so the “bounce” could explain why it’s going SOOOO high? Just a few days ago it was 34 at the nadar then 337 right before her night dose. The vets were all confused why she jumps like that. But it could also be because they don’t understand diabetes
She’s also on raw now- a different one then before because the one before I had her on had squash, carrots, and apples!!!! It made up 8 percent of the food!! The brand is Primal
I switched to Vital essentials which is only turkey, turkey heart, turkey liver, goats milk, herring oil
Click to expand...



Another question- she was 50 before she ate anything and hadn’t had anything in 7 hours so could that mean her body would have gotten the spike from the food not her fat stores? Does that make sense
 
Here's an explanation of "bouncing". It explains why a kitty's BG can go from low to sky high:
BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode.

No one can recommend better dosing until we can see a history of the BG numbers.

Doesn't sound at all like the vets understand feline diabetes. If you want to help Mimi, you will listen to the advice you get here, read the recommendations and the information, get the spreadsheet set up and the data recorded. When Mimi has those dangerously low numbers, you will be prepared to intervene and prevent a critical hypo which may cost her life or impair her for life. What is it that you want to do here?
 
Mimis mom said:
Another question- she was 50 before she ate anything and hadn’t had anything in 7 hours so could that mean her body would have gotten the spike from the food not her fat stores? Does that make sense
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Maybe, who knows? You didn't stay to see what effect the food had on her.
 
Mimis mom said:
So I shouldn’t have left? I don’t know what to do, Im currently out to dinner... :( I know how that sounds..
Click to expand...
Mimis mom said:
Why is she too low? What could have been a reason!??
Click to expand...
Mimis mom said:
What did you do when your kitty hit the 20s - also what causes that????
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t have left even if I had skipped the shot. Lantus is a depot insulin which means the previous shot can continue to affect subsequent cycles and she could still hypo if the dose is too high. Because she dropped to 50 on an AT, we already know the dose is too much for her.

If a cat drops into the 20s, the dose is too much and you have to lower the dose. Immediately, if my Gracie dropped into the 30s or lower, I gave her karo and retested in 15 mins. If she wasn’t up into the 40s//50s on a human meter, I fed her what would be necessary to further get the numbers up.

The issue here is your kitty has had DKA. We typically do not recommend skipping shots when a cat has recently had DKA. We could have helped you stall and feed correctly so the numbers could come up without a food spike and you could get “some” insulin into her.


Mimis mom said:
Another question- she was 50 before she ate anything and hadn’t had anything in 7 hours so could that mean her body would have gotten the spike from the food not her fat stores? Does that make sense
Click to expand...

Idjit's mom said:
Maybe, who knows? You didn't stay to see what effect the food had on her.
Click to expand...
Exactly. And sometimes it doesn’t matter if they eat....the numbers can still keep dropping. Each meter can vary by 20% from reading to reading so a 60 is still basically a 50.
 
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Mimis mom said:
She’s also on raw now- a different one then before because the one before I had her on had squash, carrots, and apples!!!! It made up 8 percent of the food!! The brand is Primal
I switched to Vital essentials which is only turkey, turkey heart, turkey liver, goats milk, herring oil
Click to expand...
Lowering the carb content of what one feeds a cat has an effect on the blood glucose levels. Another thing that points to the current dose being too high.

Did you shoot tonight?
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Lowering the carb content of what one feeds a cat has an effect on the blood glucose levels. Another thing that points to the current dose being too high.

Did you shoot tonight?
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I’m going to test her when I get home and I plan on shooting her then. It will be an hour later than normal but at least I’ll try to get it in... Yoh know I notice when I shoot her in the flank her blood sugar is lower than if I do it in the scruff?
 
Please test, then ask for guidance as regards to the dose. It is obvious that the current dose is too high but with DKA in the frame, it is not wise to give no insulin at all. I do not have enough experience to advise you on the dose and it is hard for anyone to advise without having a spreadsheet which contains a history of all the numbers to look at (sorry to be a pain about this).

If you shoot one hour late tonight, then tomorrow morning you will need to shoot 15 minutes earlier than tonight's shot time.
Say tonight's shot is at 11:00 your time, then you would shoot at 10:45 tomorrow morning.
Then tomorrow night, you shoot fifteen minutes earlier again at 10:30, and so on until you get back on track.

Shooting any earlier than this will act like double dosing and an increase – and that is not at all what you want to happen.

Mimis mom said:
My friends I’m with are telling me I’m being overly paranoid
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You are not being paranoid at all. It is up to you to keep your cat safe. Would any of them give a child insulin without testing?
 
What number should she be at to dose her- say I test her and she’s 115, or something like that should I dose her?
 
Mimis mom said:
What number should she be at to dose her- say I test her and she’s 115, or something like that should I dose her?
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It's dependent on the cat, how long kitty has been on insulin, how much data you have, and your ability to monitor. If I saw 115 for a new member with no data, I might advise something different for a cat who has been on insulin for months with lots and lots of data.

Right now, I think your priority is to eventually go home and test your cat. Then please please contact @Marje and Gracie to get your SS set up. We really can't help you completely without data. It's hard for us to piece info together and give GOOD advice.

As for being paranoid, non-sugarcat caregivers most likely will not understand. Many of us have had to change the way we go about our days because of our cats. It's unfortunate and some are not always able to make this change. But it's one all of us have done because of how much we love our cats. Everything is very overwhelming right now but try to breathe, read everyone's advice here carefully and try your best.
 
Crista & Ming said:
It's dependent on the cat, how long kitty has been on insulin, how much data you have, and your ability to monitor. If I saw 115 for a new member with no data, I might advise something different for a cat who has been on insulin for months with lots and lots of data.

Right now, I think your priority is to eventually go home and test your cat. Then please please contact @Marje and Gracie to get your SS set up. We really can't help you completely without data. It's hard for us to piece info together and give GOOD advice.

As for being paranoid, non-sugarcat caregivers most likely will not understand. Many of us have had to change the way we go about our days because of our cats. It's unfortunate and some are not always able to make this change. But it's one all of us have done because of how much we love our cats. Everything is very overwhelming right now but try to breathe, read everyone's advice here carefully and try your best.
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She’s newly diagnosed 8/28/19
Can you see that in my profile? Did I set that part up correctly?
 
When my cat was diagnosed with diabetes, a few people asked me “why don’t you put your cat to sleep”? You will encounter many, many people who do not understand your love and commitment for your baby. You are not paranoid, you’re being worried and cautious. With diabetes you need to be cautious and also your life changes, it’s going to revolve around your cat, the BG tests, the shot time, etc... it’s demanding but necessary to keep them safe and heathy (enough). You’ll get used to it :) it’s a luck for you and Mimi to have found this forum because people here are so knowledgeable and committed. They will help you navigate the disease and become an expert yourself. For that, you need to create your spreadsheet (lol, I had to say it), it takes two minutes honestly, and people will be able to help you with dosing etc. Also, please take a look at other people s spreadsheet and you’ll see that it’s not uncommon to go from 300s to 50s during a cycle. You’ll notice bounces and other patterns. But do not copy their dosing! Every one needs a different dose. Right now I believe Mimi earned a reduction tonight! Good luck :)
 
Mimis mom said:
She’s newly diagnosed 8/28/19
Can you see that in my profile? Did I set that part up correctly?
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Yes I do see that.

I was talking hypothetical situations. I would give very different advice to people whose cats were newly diagnosed vs. experienced. So your question of whether you can give insulin with a BG of 115 will depend on what the readings were like in the past few days/hours prior. Does that make sense?
 
I cannot stay up any longer.
The dose is too high. If you get a high test number tonight, that will be the bounce talking. It does not mean that you can give the 1.5 unit dose. Bounces are temporary and you do not know how long the bounce will last. The dose still needs to be reduced. Please ask for guidance before you shoot tonight.

Edit: We really want to help you find a good dose for Mimi. With DKA in the recent past, it is imperative that the dose is the correct one so that she doesn't fall back into a DKA state. The only way to find that good dose is to test and be vigilant. All the work will pay off.
 
Off to bed too, wrenched my back today and I need to lay down. Good luck, and I hope that Mimi is and will be ok.
 
Hi Rosa,
I am around for the next several hours.
Please post and tell me what the blood test result is when you test the blood sugar.
Don't give the insulin until you have spoken to someone here.

None of your friends, who are telling you you are paranoid have any idea at what cat diabetes is so they are talking nonsense!

It is imperative that you continue to test Mimi and if she is in a low number like under 68, you must stay with her until she is up into higher number and feed her some honey or Karo and some high carb food to get the numbers up. To leave her and go out is putting her life in danger.

Just because she looks ok does not mean she will continue to be OK when the number is low. That is why we test.

Recently there was a cat who we thought was coming up and he was around 48 when he suddenly dropped lower (even though he was being fed food) and he became unconscious. The caregiver put honey on his gums and he was seen by the vet. He was very lucky to survive.

Another cat I read about yesterday (not on this site) was found unconscious and was rushed to the vet. He is now blind and is having a lot of trouble getting his balance and trying to walk again from the hypo event. He is not out of the woods.
So you can see that things can go wrong if you are not vigilant. I am not trying to frighten you, just make you aware of what can happen with a hypo

You are not a bad Mom......there is a lot to learn when you have a diabetic cat.
In regards to the food. Can you buy a timed feeder so you can leave food out for Mimi while you are not there?

Please post as soon as you are home and have tested.
Bron
 
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Penelope and Mačka said:
When my cat was diagnosed with diabetes, a few people asked me “why don’t you put your cat to sleep”? You will encounter many, many people who do not understand your love and commitment for your baby. You are not paranoid, you’re being worried and cautious. With diabetes you need to be cautious and also your life changes, it’s going to revolve around your cat, the BG tests, the shot time, etc... it’s demanding but necessary to keep them safe and heathy (enough). You’ll get used to it :) it’s a luck for you and Mimi to have found this forum because people here are so knowledgeable and committed. They will help you navigate the disease and become an expert yourself. For that, you need to create your spreadsheet (lol, I had to say it), it takes two minutes honestly, and people will be able to help you with dosing etc. Also, please take a look at other people s spreadsheet and you’ll see that it’s not uncommon to go from 300s to 50s during a cycle. You’ll notice bounces and other patterns. But do not copy their dosing! Every one needs a different dose. Right now I believe Mimi earned a reduction tonight! Good luck :)[/QUOTE



I looked at your spread sheet and I want to know how to read it.. what is AMPS?? Or what are those +1 +2 .. I don’t know how to read this chart
Click to expand...
 
You skipped the last shot didn't you?

If so you really need to give Mimi some insulin.

Can you draw up 1.25 units of Lantus and give it to her now?
It will mean you are not going to be able to give the insulin at the normal time tomorrow but she needs to have it now.

I will wait here for your response so please answer me:)
 
Ohhh bouncing big time! Don’t worry this is normal. It can take a few cycles to calm down and doesn’t mean you have to increase. Please stick with the reduction tonight! Tomorrow, you can start going back to the original shooting time, 15 minutes per cycle. So if you shoot now at 22:15, tomorrow morning it’s going to be 10:00, tomorrow evening 21:45, Monday morning 9:30, etc...
 
Rosa, if you go to post #2 in http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-make-a-spread-sheet.220621/ you will see that the first link has instructions for creating the spreadsheet (which Marje has kindly offered to do for you if you'll contact her directly), and the second link tells you what all of the columns in the spreadsheet mean.

Please take the time to contact Marje and also read the second link that explains each of the columns. Then if you still have questions, we'd be happy to help.

Please help us help you and Mimi. :bighug:
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
Ohhh bouncing big time! Don’t worry this is normal. It can take a few cycles to calm down and doesn’t mean you have to increase. Please stick with the reduction tonight! Tomorrow, you can start going back to the original shooting time, 15 minutes per cycle. So if you shoot now at 22:15, tomorrow morning it’s going to be 10:00, tomorrow evening 21:45, Monday morning 9:30, etc...
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So shoot 1 unit. If she’s been 1.5
 
No. I want you to shoot 1.25 units.

That is half way between the 1 unit mark and the 1.5 unit mark.

She earned a reduction in dose when she dropped to 50.

So now she needs 1.25 units.
Do you think you can do that amount ok.?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You skipped the last shot didn't you?

If so you really need to give Mimi some insulin.

Can you draw up 1.25 units of Lantus and give it to her now?
It will mean you are not going to be able to give the insulin at the normal time tomorrow but she needs to have it now.

I will wait here for your response so please answer me:)
Click to expand...


My phone died- I drew up as close to 1.25 as I could- just a touch about 1 unit and dosed her
 
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