HELP! Cat has DKA and I need advice

[Tanya and Ducia]

Yep we have Petco. That's where I'm planning to go. Normally we give him these ones:

https://www.chewy.com/fancy-feast-classic-seafood-feast/dp/129668

and these ones:

https://www.chewy.com/fancy-feast-classic-poultry-beef/dp/104049

The Poultry-Beef ones are not on my list, so I do not know what % carbs they are...

But I totally agree with @Kris & Teasel posted above that it is better to have some high-ish carbs foods that would let you to keep the dose that works longer without going Hypo- near places ,like every day.

The ones I currently like from PetCo are:

Soulistic canned Moist and Tender Chicken Dinner - 8% carbs, around 173 Phosphorous.
Soulistic canned Moist and Tender Turkey Dinner - 6%/ 178 P.
Soulistic Autumn Bounty Pouch - 9%/ 220.
Soulistic canned Pate and Shreds Chicken and Turkey - 5%/265.

The first two are easily diluted with warm water and mashed with fork before syringe or Etube feeding.
The last two need to be run thru a NutriBullet or a processor to make it evenly textured/ smooth. With water.

P levels are not important at this point unless there is a kidney problem known.

Here is the food list Dr. Pierson I use like most here.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

If I don't feel like mixing the high and low carb one to make medium, what are some good options for me to buy?

I'll answer as Kris is not familiar with the PetCo items.
See my post above - try these, really. That's what my cat eats and I do sincerely believe they one of the best (commercially) available.
Also, get some Friskies , like Poultry Platter, Chicken and Giblets, and maybe Liver and Chicken Pates. Lotsa cat love it!
@Laudie

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Here are some Wellness brand foods that are higher in carbs:

• Wellness Complete Health Chicken and Lobster - 11%
• Wellness Core Indoor varieties - 12%
• Wellness Core Beef, Venison and Lamb - 13%
• Wellness Core Salmon, Whitefish and Herring - 13%.

These are pricier foods but the pate texture is very smooth and would be easy to mix with water to syringe feed. If you have an immersion blender you can add 3 - 4 tablespoons of warm water to an entire can of food and blend until it's a very thick mousse-like consistency that can be drawn up into a feeding syringe. The benefit of this method is that you get more food in per mL of mousse because you don't have to water it down much.

 

[Laudie]

Awesome thanks so much @Tanya and Ducia ! I'll buy a variety of those

 

[Djamila]

see if he will eat anything and she said if he doesn't eat a lot that's ok and just give him a smaller dose

So Kris and Tanya are helping you get the food sorted, so I wanted to jump in and address the dosing part since you really don't want to be giving a smaller dose right now. Can you tell us a little about how much you and DH are available during the day to be testing and feeding? Are you both gone for work during the day? Are you each able to get BG tests and syringe feed? I dont' mean to be getting all nosy into your lives, Just trying to figure out the best plan for working the insulin since as several folks have mentioned, insufficient insulin is a big factor in DKA, so we need to make sure we have a plan that lets you get a better dose of insulin into Bandit, while still keeping him safe.

If someone is around pretty much all the time, and if you can both test and feed, there are more options. But if you need to be at work, we can plan around that.

 

[Laudie]

@Djamila haha no worries about the prying!

Right now DH is waiting for his security clearance to go through at work so he's actually home all day which I'm so thankful. I work the standard 40 hours per week so I'm gone from 7:30-5:30 or 6 typically. I might have some flexibility to WFH some days. When I'm home I'm helping hold Bandit for DH to feed him but he did it on his own too.

He also knows how to BG test after I showed him this morning so that's great too. He's been a real life saver with helping out. The spreadsheet is up-to-date now so you can see how his blood levels have gone over the last 2 days.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

@Olive & Paula
@Tanya and Ducia
@Laudie

With DKA 48 hrs in hospital usually isn't enough time.

it is plenty, dear Paula, - for the impoverished US population. No one can afford any more. So it is plenty - just like it was for me and my cat, she got 24 hours in the ER and then back home in to our care or willing effort, call it whatever.
And, BTW, any Vet with a Clue can deal with DKA in 24h. Not to cure, but to prime to the right direction and to let a pet owner to deal with the rest at home with no more fancy charges.
Are you aware that a hospital stay 24h in , for instance CA, is over $1200?
Are you aware that 65% of US population does not have funds for an emergency with humans, let alone cats? No?
Well...
I mean it is pointless to tell someone without means to go ahead and to book a cat into a hospital where one won't be able to afford.

The only way out of this system is to do it at home.
Educate yourself. Read. Talk w/ people on this Board. Many dealt w/ DKA.
You do not have to pay for your vet's Porsche, Laudie. You can do it at home.
@Olive & Paula

Donning my Moderator hat... A disclaimer of sorts is appropriate in this situation. It would be irresponsible not to say "something".

For those following along...

Paula was correct when she said *usually* a 48 hour hospitalization isn't enough time to treat a cat in DKA. Having had a cat who was hospitalized for a week with DKA... I fully understand the financial implications, but to say "it's plenty" and "you do not have to pay for your vet's Porsche" just isn't right.

"Those cats with systemic signs of DKA such as anorexia/vomiting/lethargy need hospitalisation and therapy with regular insulin and intravenous fluids. Monitoring of sick ketoacidotic patients is intensive. Acid-base, electrolyte and blood glucose levels can change rapidly during therapy, and close monitoring of these parameters is mandatory. For example, it is not uncommon for 3–4 changes of fluid type to be required in the first 24 hours of therapy. If in-house monitoring of electrolytes and acid base status is not available, referral should be considered, unless an outside laboratory can supply a result in a couple of hours.

The primary goals for therapy of DKA are:

Correct dehydration and electrolyte deficits

Treat with regular insulin to prevent ketogenesis and reduce hyperglycaemia

Correct acidosis if required

Identify and remove any precipitating factors (e.g., infection)

Provide nutritional support"

And that's just to start. Detailed info on the typical therapy for DKA can be found here: https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/defaultadv1.aspx?id=5709925&pid=11372&print=1.

It's important to note much of this cannot be done at home. What can be done at home falls into the category of "doing the best one can given financial limitations/considerations"... and that's fine. Doing the best we can do is... well, the best we can do... and it's certainly better than not treating at all. But, treating DKA at home is not best and we can't pretend it is despite the cost. Recommendations to treat at home comes with a responsibility to also mention increased risk simply because of not being able to offer what hospitalization can and does offer.

DKA is serious and often fatal even when treated in a hospital.


Having said that...
Laudie, you're getting great advice. A big thanks to everyone who is reaching out to help Laudie and Bandit!

Wishing you the best and a speedy recovery for Bandit!

 

[Olive & Paula]

Hi Laudie and Bandit,
I have recovered my girl from DKA at home..Can I help?
I am happy to post /answer any of your questions.
BTW:

it is plenty, dear Paula, - for the impoverished US population. No one can afford any more. So it is plenty - just like it was for me and my cat, she got 24 hours in the ER and then back home in to our care or willing effort, call it whatever.
And, BTW, any Vet with a Clue can deal with DKA in 24h. Not to cure, but to prime to the right direction and to let a pet owner to deal with the rest at home with no more fancy charges.
Are you aware that a hospital stay 24h in , for instance CA, is over $1200?
Are you aware that 65% of US population does not have funds for an emergency with humans, let alone cats? No?
Well...
I mean it is pointless to tell someone without means to go ahead and to book a cat into a hospital where one won't be able to afford.

The only way out of this system is to do it at home.
Educate yourself. Read. Talk w/ people on this Board. Many dealt w/ DKA.
You do not have to pay for your vet's Porsche, Laudie. You can do it at home.
@Olive & Paula

@Laudie
When my cat was in DKA I had her fit with the Esophageal Tube for feeding and meds administration - only 5 - 6 weeks in. It worked miracle for her. Have your vet mentioned it at all?

It won't be as expensive as a week long stay at a clinic - and will provide you with an opportunity to take charge. You cat will be better off if you are the prime caregiver, - not some remote located vet who is in debt for the vet school up to his/hers eyeballs and to whome, most likely, every patient is a conveyor type deal.

@Tanya and Ducia i am entitled to have an opinion different from yours. Most people can not treat dka themselves at home. They don't have the knowlegde, the skills, and in some cases the time. It can be very stressful for a person, couple or family to deal with. I am fully aware how expensive it is to treat. I have also been around the board for years and on daily. There are not many here who have treated it at home from begining of the crisis. Yes they continue to treat themselves after discharge which is usually 4-5 days after the onset. I do read, research and educate myself. But you are entitled to your opinion. It would be irresponsible of me to suggest treating dka by themselves at onset when kitty is most critical. It could do more harm than good since other factors are unknown.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Tanya, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's just that... an opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less. However, rudeness to any member, including myself is not tolerated on the FDMB. Your last two posts have been put into moderation and will be dealt with later.

I'm also closing this thread. Laudie, please feel free to open a new thread in the morning.

 

[Robert and Echo]

Laudie, we want the best for Bandit and it sounds like you're getting some good advice for the situation you're in, and it's a rough situation. I'll look for the update.

Everyone else, please keep it civil.