Help, BG fell real fast

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Msbrigitta

Msbrigitta

Member Since 2012
Hi,

I gave my newly diagnosed cat Merlin his first shot of 1U at 9.30 this morning when his BG was 277. At 11.30 his BG was 82!
I just retested at 12 noon and now it is 50! I gave him some syrup and a few fingertips of canned food. He seems fine.
Do I just keep on testing and feeding?

Thanks for all your help. Just nervous!
Brigitta
 
Hi Brigitta,

I can't help much except to suggest re-posting with the 911 symbol for help faster....

maybe something with a gravy for carbs, til someone answers...

have you read the Sticky on Hypo?
 
Brigitta! Welcome!

I've only been at this for a couple of months myself, so I am no expert... one of the best pieces of advice I've gotten was "Breathe" ... it can be very stressful but there is tons of help on this message board I promise! I have been through some very low numbers with our kitty Buca so I know how you are feeling right now :YMHUG:

It's good that you took some steps to bring Junior's BG back up. You should test every half hour until you are sure that it is increasing (it likely will, with the syrup in his system now).

The members will want to know a few things about you:
What kind of insulin you're using, what kind of food are you feeding, etc... any details would be very helpful to the pro's that will be helping you.

Most of our cats are on a low carb high protein wet food diet, and many have been able to manage their diabetes on diet alone.

Just test him a few more times every half hour to make sure he doesn't keep going down :smile:
 
You will want to test every half hour until you get two rising numbers in a row. Do remember that while Karo is the thing to raise BG, it does wear off in a couple of hours, so even after you get two rising number, you should test every hour until the nadir of the cycle passes and the numbers are rising on their own without the influence of extra food. Most of us keel cans of gravy food on hand for when a cat drops low fast. Fancy Feast gravy lovers is a favorite because it has a ton of gravy. You want to try and feed the gravy only so the cat won't fill up in case you need to keep feeding. If you give Karo, a few bites of regular LC food is fine.

What insulin are you using? You will probably want to reduce your dose to .5U starting with the next cycle and check the numbers for a few days on the lower dose. My cat used to dive like yours before becoming nicely regulated on .1U, so less insulin may be in order. Also, if your cat decides that these dives will be a regular thing, you may want to try a higher low carb food at shot time-something in the 7-8% range. The very lowest carb food isn't always the best option-some cats need a bit more to balance the insulin. You want to stay under 10%, but play with different foods in that range to see what works best.
 
You don't need to start a new topic, just simply click "edit" button beside your first post and you can add an icon, and then click "submit" and it will edit your original message :-D
 
Thank you Bucasmom and MikeysMom,

Last test at 12.45 was 66! Yeah :-D
My cat's fine but I've got the shakes ! nailbite_smile

Brigitta
 
That's good. Get another test in a half hour, and if you're still rising, you should be good; just get a couple of spot checks to make sure the Karo doesn't wear off before the insulin is done doing its thing.
 
Great job Brigitta!

Oh I know those shakes all too well! If you look at Buca's Spreadsheet I have linked on my signature, there are lots of low numbers in there @-) Many late nights testing him!

There is a ton of info in here about how to treat low numbers, and if you go to the Insulin Support Group for your insulin you'll also find tons of good info specific to what you're using :)
 
While you are waiting for the next test - read this post about hypos:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

If you have high carb food or food with gravy, I would recommend that you take the gravy and serve her that instead of more syrup. And if she seems hungry - take her low carb food and add the gravy to it. This will help keep her BG rising, without filling her with sugar.

And I suggest that for the next shot - you reduce your dose down by .25 or .50 unit. Anytime you hit a 50 or below, it warrants a dose reduction.

Do you have a spreadsheet with her numbers? So we can see the pattern.

What insulin are you using?
 
Well, his next BG at 2.30 was 96 but at 5pm it was back up to 270.
His next dose would be 8.30 tonight. I'll probably will give him .5U this time.

I've read through a couple of posts now and when I tell you he's on Humulin N, twice a day, you'll probably say that's not a good insulin?
He's also on Evo dry food at the moment (turkey and chicken). I'll try to wean him 'over' to canned. Since he's on Evo he went down from 374 (when he was diagnosed) to 244 on diet alone. I thought that was pretty impressive!

Brigitta
 
His BG was 370. Wow, that's as high as when he was diagnosed!
I think I'll still give him only 0.5U. Hopefully that won't make him crash as low. Am I right to think this way?
Should I check overnight?
 
Yes continue with the smaller dose. What is happening is that he is bouncing from the sugars and high carb foods.

And you are correct, Humulin N is not the best insulin to be using. The best insulins to use for cats are lantus, levimer or prozinc.

Dry food of any kind is not ideal. If you haven't already, please read Dr. Lisa's site: www.catinfo.org and she will explain all the reasons why dry food is not good for cats.
 
Msbrigitta said:
Well, his next BG at 2.30 was 96 but at 5pm it was back up to 270.
His next dose would be 8.30 tonight. I'll probably will give him .5U this time.

I've read through a couple of posts now and when I tell you he's on Humulin N, twice a day, you'll probably say that's not a good insulin?
He's also on Evo dry food at the moment (turkey and chicken). I'll try to wean him 'over' to canned. Since he's on Evo he went down from 374 (when he was diagnosed) to 244 on diet alone. I thought that was pretty impressive!

Brigitta
Click to expand...

Do you understand why we would say Humulin N isn't a good insulin for cats? Mainly it's because there are now insulins for human use that are so much better for cats. Even ProZinc works better for cats than N.

The reason Humulin isn't appropriate is because of what you experienced today. It is a fast acting insulin which can drop BGs rapidly, but that drop lasts a short time and before 12 hours is up, the insulin has been used up and the cat is back to high BGs. Part of what you saw today is a result of the sugars you gave him though and a phenomenon known as Somogyi Rebound, a mechanism between the pancreas and liver which occurs to prevent hypoglycemia. It should not be relied on to protect them though.

The diet change definitely works for a lot of cats, but they need insulin to support their pancreas and perhaps help them go in to remission. The longer acting insulins Lantus (glargine) or Levemir (detemir) work best to help that process, so it's advisable to see if you can get either one of those. We can help you with information about them to help convince your vet that a switch is better.
 
Thank you, Vicky and Hillary.
Yes, I understand about Humulin and we're going to switch to Lantus asap. I'll take the blame for the Humulin, choosing it because it was the cheapest and we we were very, very low on funds. It's hard these days to make ends meet but things are looking a little better now so we'll change.

This morning, after giving him 0.5U last night, his BG was 347. I gave him 0.5 again and the numbers are as follows: 303 (at +2), 338 (at +3), 361 (at +4), 319 (at +6).
Somehow it didn't do much?
Yesterday his lowest BG occurred at +4.

Just out of curiosity; could you give Humulin in low doses 3 times a day since it seems to stop working after 6 hours?
Also, instead of injecting him in the side could I try the scruff of the neck (I heard absorption is less fast there) or maybe give the shot in the side but in the skin instead of under?

Thank you all for helping. It's wonderful to have so much support on this rather scary journey!
Brigitta
 
Keep in mind that the insulin does not keep the glucose down low ALL the time. It lowers it for a while, then the level comes back up - a "smile" shape when you get repeated tests.

As you discovered, 1 unit may be too much at one time; you might consider 0.75 - halfway between 0.5 and 1.0 units of insulin. You do have to eyeball that, and a magnifier may be helpful. I used clip on glasses magnifiers.

If you can, pick up the food 4 hours prior to the next shot (when shooting every 12 hours), as that is when the Humulin has probably worn off. It only lasts 6-8 hours in most cats. It might take dosing every 8 hours to get good control with Humulin and if you can do that with your schedule, that may work well for him.

Continue to monitor how low he is going around 3-4 hours after the injection. This is the expected time when the lowest glucose level will occur.

Yes, the scruff may help slow the rate of absorption. Do not shoot into the skin as sometimes this may cause ulceration in that area. Insulin was made to be injected under the skin.

And breathe :smile: This is very do-able.
 
Thank you BJM,
I managed to pick up his food 4hrs prior to testing, he slept all afternoon as it was, and his pmBG was 241. I gave him 0.5U in the scruff, he ate and his +2 BG came to 308.
I guess it's going to be a little bit of a rollercoaster these first days! I'll try 0.75 tomorrow, and maybe try for the 3 times a day if he keeps running out too soon.

I don't know if I should but I'll take off the 911 of the post since it's not an emergency anymore?
Thanks again, Brigitta
 
Yes, please do edit your 1st post to remove the 911 on it.

You may find it helpful to spread his food out into 2-3 smaller meals, to help control the food spike. Several folks here use the PetMate 5 compartment feeder. You could do 1 feeding post-test & pre-shot, then another 2 hours later.
Another alternative is to freeze half, so when you put it out, it can't be eaten quickly.
 
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