Help- Acro boy circling! Added video. Neurological?

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Dawn and Mateo Wiggles & Toby

Dawn and Mateo Wiggles & Toby

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My acromegalic boy started walking in circles tonight and at first I thought it was cute... "oh look he is chasing his tail!"

but it's not cute anymore, I think it is neurological. He isn't stopping. Just keeps walking in circles to the right. :( He was able to eat his dinner tonight, but not easily because he kept turning his head. He is not low, I tested him and he was in the 200s. I didn't shoot... didn't know what was going on or if he would be able to eat etc, so I'm not sure what to do now.

My first thought is the Acro... is it the tumor in his brain that is doing it?

If he doesn't magically stop, I think the end may be near :cry:

edit: did some searching and it COULD possibly be just an ear infection? Or a stroke. Or the acro tumor.
Also: "feline vestibular disorder- This usually lasts less than two to three weeks and clears up with or without medication."
So yeah, I am hoping for this.

*uploaded a video of him... http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v11/i ... 002-16.mp4

He has since jumped up on the recliner, curled up and went to sleep, so I guess that is good? I'll see what he is like when he wakes up. UPDATE: he is completely NORMAL. Very odd.
 
Re: Help for my Acro boy- Added video. Neurological

hmmmm, i don't know.

Mousie had her infamous vestibular episode caused by an ear infection and to be honest, her spinning and even standing was way out control which i don't see in your video. he's spinning but he's balanced and seems to be in control.

by chance did you get a look at his eyes? are they flickering side to side? faster in one direction than the other?

Linda's Bear started doing this a while ago and I think his was somewhat controlled to. I sent her a message pointing her here but i know it's getting late so not sure if she'll see it tonight.
 
Re: Help for my Acro boy- Added video. Neurological

Thanks, Cindy.

Now he looks completely NORMAL. He is enjoying some no-carb dehydrated fish.

So odd. I am glad it is not constant though. Possible it is the acro tumor and it could be off and on... maybe?

oh, and no his eyes were not flickering.
 
Re: Help for my Acro boy- Added video. Neurological

perhaps.
i wonder if any of the other acro moms ever saw anything like this? are you part of catacromegaly.com? if so, i'd post it there too just in case it is something with the acro that's causing it then I would think some others would have seen it too.

when Mousie had her ear infection, her balance was so off she couldn't even stay up. she veered to one side, spun in circles and just plain fell over. her eyes were also very twitchy. they call what her eyes were doing nystagmus and your baby just seems so in control, very determined to get that tail but not trying too hard. :-)
 
Re: Help for my Acro boy- Added video. Neurological

Oh Dawn! You know how I hate to hear bad things about my little Tobykins. I've posted on the 2 acro facebook sites. Some of the old-timer acros did experience similar symptoms and I hope they'll drop by.

ETA: I just watched the video. Please give him lots and lots of the things he loves and scritches from his auntie.
 
Re: Help for my Acro boy- Added video. Neurological

Thank you, Heather! I found a post from Phoebe while I was searching last night... she wrote that "Norton circled in the last year - always to the right. He had acromegaly - which is a brain tumor affecting the pituitary. As the brain tumor grew, Norton's behavior changed - circling got worse, he couldn't jump up or down without falling."

So it is sounds like he could do it from time to time, but act normal in between, and then as it gets worse, he will do it more and more.
 
Re: Help for my Acro boy- Added video. Neurological

OK I have seen mention of that issue before... try fitting something about circling in your subject line and try to catch the eyes of those who have had to deal with that issue.
I will look around to see what I can find in searches, but in the meantime, try the subject change.
I'm glad it's stopped, but best to be prepared if it comes back again.
 
Re: Help for my Acro boy- Added video. Neurological

That's exactly what Tucker did before we started him on prednisolone. Tucker has a brain tumor but is not acro.

We recently reduced his dose to help clear his ringworm and he's back to circling so we had to go back up.

I would tell your vet about this and watch him to see if he does this again.
 
Thanks Jennifer. I believe I saw a post where Phoebe mentioned prednisolone too. If the circling comes back, it sounds like that would be a good idea. I hope my vet knows something about it but I doubt it... been wanting to switch vets but dont know to where...
 
Carolynn's Fletcher(GA) was on Prednisolone, maybe you could PM her. He wasn't circling, I believe it was soft tissue growth in his throat that interupted his breathing. It was caused by the acro and I think the pred helped him.
 
hmmm wonder if that is what I am thinking of then. I'm not even sure now, I did a lot of searching for info last night and am easily confused now! I wonder if Norton was on prednisolone then.
 
You are right, Norton took pred too, but I don't know why. You can PM both of them on the same thread and ask them to check this thread and your video, maybe they would be able to give you some info on how the pred affected BGs for their kitties.
 
Bear Man used to circle, always in one direction. Bear was blind, and was very weak in the hind legs, so he had great difficulty finding his way in his last months. The circling tendency was usually present, but became much worse under stress, primarily the stress of needing to find the litter box urgently. Here is Bear's circling video:



Here is a link in which Jojo discusses, among other things, her ideas about circling and a neuro consult. Scroll down to Jojo's two posts:

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... it=+eating

Bear Man also had what appeared to be focal seizures. They started as face twitches, and eventually worsened to where they happened every minute and involved his whole body and paws. I never pursued a neuro consult. He was on Baytril long term for pyelonephritis, so one theory was neurotoxicity from that drug. We did taper him down and he had very mild improvement. A brain tumor could also have been a possibility (I believe I have read that in this case, the cat cricles toward the side that the tumor is on). Bear got some relief from SAMe, which can help with demntia issues.

Your kitty seems quite intent on following his tail (Bear was blind, so I can't compare the two). Can you distract him out of the circling by calling him? Bear had difficulty breaking out even when called. Can he walk a straight line most of the time? Could it possibly be some sort of obsessive-compulsive behavior (I have seen spinning behavior in dogs with OCD). Look for nystagmus (eye movements). BTW, Bear Man was on steroids for IBD for many years (he was a steroid induced diabetic).
 
Yes - Norton circled, and taking Pred helped - I believe by reducing inflammation/swelling in his brain from the tumor.

[edited to add: We are fortunate to have a vet neurologist about 3 miles from my home, so the consult was easy for Norton -- even closer to home than our regular vet]

I sent Dawn a message on Facebook talking about Norton and the progression etc -- I'll copy it here:

Hi Dawn,
Norton did circle -- it started out once in a while and gradually increased to the point where he couldn't walk a straight line without help.
I think the circling behavior was because the pituitary tumor had grown enough to press on neighboring parts of the brain.

We found that giving Prednosolone every day helped a lot -- this reduced inflammation / swelling from the tissues that the tumor was pushing on.

When the circling got worse, I would walk a little behind him and use a golf club or cane -- holding it by his neck to help him walk straight by preventing the turn -- kind of hard to explain perhaps.

By keeping his head pointing straighter while he was walking -- he could keep going straight. Of course he still did his own cat things too -- but getting to the litterbox became more difficult for him.

I made a special litterbox -- using a pee-pad tray designed for BIG dogs/puppies. The walls were only 3-4" tall and the box was quite big -- approx 2' x 3'. I put it away from any walls so he could circle in from any direction. I did put litter in it, because he didn't like the pee pads -- didn't recognize them as an appropriate place to "go".

He was also unable to jump in the last year -- the same thing that made him circle, made his sense of direction a bit wonky for jumping.

So we put a low stool next to the couch for him to climb up and down, and we got steps for the bed, but he did not get them figured out for going down. I would help him onto the bed and set him down on the floor when he was ready to get down. He usually visited us when we first went to bed -- then left when we turned off the lights to sleep.

He started showing the circling symptoms in ~August 2007. We did not know about acromegaly then, though he had been diabetic since June 2006. He was up to ~11u BID, and we didn't know that was "high dose" until we found FDMB.

In March 2008, we took Norton to a neurologist who confirmed a brain tumor. We chose to give him the best quality of life possible without surgery.

In May 2008, his abdomen was painfully swollen -- we discovered that he had an inoperable cancer in his intestines that was leaking fluid. We didn't want him to suffer and helped him cross the bridge.

We did know that he had a malignant skin tumor removed in March 2006 -- so we were afraid the cancer would return someday. That was not necessarily related to the acromegaly but we'll never know.

One thing I did not think of until too late -- allowing Norton's body to be sent for autopsy to help with acromegaly research. If this is an option that you would consider, I would suggest contacting either Dr. Lunn at CSU or the doctor in California who did a recent surgery - going in through the upper palate. Basically to see if they would be interested at an undetermined time in the future - and if so, to document instructions - effectively writing a will for Toby.
In our grief at the sudden diagnosis of hemangiosarcoma, we had Norton cremated and have his ashes.

Without the cancer in the equation, I think we would have had another year or two with Norton, based on the progression of his brain tumor symptoms (fairly gradual).

(((((((hugs))))))))
phoebe
 
Thank you SO MUCH, everyone for all the responses and info. They are all much appreciated! :YMHUG:

Linda and Bear Man said:
Can he walk a straight line most of the time? Could it possibly be some sort of obsessive-compulsive behavior (I have seen spinning behavior in dogs with OCD). Look for nystagmus (eye movements). BTW, Bear Man was on steroids for IBD for many years (he was a steroid induced diabetic).
Click to expand...

He normally walks perfectly, up until 11pm last night. Then he circled constantly for between 1-2 hours. Then he was perfectly normal again. I did not see any shaking of his eyes. It doesn't seem to be anything like OCD. He had difficulty even just eating during this and I know he relaly wanted to eat (he did eat it all, just was more difficult and messy).
 
dawn i watched your video a couple of times. it looked like the other cat (black) was concerned too and almost like he examined toby...was that just typical interaction between them. also seemed that his neck was kind of locked into position. i would have responded just as you did thinking at first how cute and then getting a little freaked out.
i could'nt help but wonder if you held his tail on the other side if he would have reversed circle. i also could'nt help but feel his neck was like in lock in mode. if i did not know he was acro, or about the tumor, i think i would have suspected compulsive disorder. it certainly was a compulsion.
please keep us posted on him.
 
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