Hello!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jennifer&Cain(GA)

Jennifer&Cain(GA)

Member Since 2013
Hello!

I currently have two cats, both from the same mother. They are from a litter of four of which we kept all of them. Their names are Brownie, a brown tabby with black markings, and Cain, an orange tabby. (Yeah, we didn't know if we were keeping them so we color named them. My brother named the orange tabby Cain.) I've lost the mother and their sister due to dogs. Their other sister lives with my sister. :) Brownie is hyperthyroid and is on a transdermal gel of Methimazole twice daily.

The vet suspected that Cain might be diabetic back in November. We tried for diet controlled first cause that was my choice and that I wanted more time to research. Also, I'm unemployed and Dad pays for all my bills right now. Just thought food controlling was a good start. I started searching the internet and found a vet's website (whose name I can't remember) all about switching to wet food and I found this site as well. I've been feeding them both Fancy Feast 3 oz cans. Usually the pate varieties though I've been giving them some flaked ones as well.

Sadly, due to surgery in November (gallbladder removal) and just not having enough money from holidays and after holidays and the surgery office wanting more money, I didn't get to take Cain back into the vet until today. I went in somewhat armed to ask the vet some questions. He took a glucose test (I think) and it read 375. Last time in November it was 350 I think... So we're putting Cain on insulin.

I did ask about Lantus and Levemir and the vet said he didn't hear of any difference between those insulins and the insulins he usually works with from the vet specialist he works with in San Antonio. And PZI was hard to get so he prescribed either Humulin N or Noralin N with 2 units starting. I wanted to start at 1 unit and he said I could do that if I wanted to.

Are those good at all? I know y'all prefer the two human insulins or PZI. And I know, I was bad for waiting so long. He's down to 11 1/2 lbs now. He was overweight at 20lbs. (Big orange cat.) But I'm not sure what his actual weight should be. I want to say he seems a little weak in the hindlegs but then he leaps from my chair to the window sill sometimes. He's easy to push over tho.

So uh, hi. :) I'm trying to keep up. It's overwhelming and sometimes I just want to shut down and go play a game but this guy is depending on me to help him.
 
The vet might be thinking of "PZI" in a bovine compounded form (which is hard to get) and not "Prozinc" which is a rDNA human based insulin that is engineered to be used specifically for cats. Made by Boehringer. They experienced a shortage last year but it should be readily available now.
http://www.prozinc.us
You might ask them?
Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc would all be much better options than "N".
 
Thanks for all the responses. I haven't gotten the insulin filled yet cause I wanted y'all's opinions on it. :)

And that's what I thought. Shoot. Thank you for the links to the research for Lantus. If I can't convince him for that, then maybe Prozinc. I didn't realize ProZinc was different from PZI (or is it? Kinda tired atm). He did mention it might be available from the same pharmacy I'm getting my Methimazole ordered from. He's possibly thinking of costs but if the supplies last a long time, I'm willing to get a better insulin that might be higher in upfront cost if it'll regulate Cain better. I will definitely print those out and give it to the tech to give to him.

The flaked Fancy Feasts I've been giving them have been the Fish & Shrimp, Chicken & Tuna, and I got some Tuna flaked for them this week. Annd I see those are a little on the high side. Except the Fish & Shrimp. I'll phase those back out.

Thank you for the links to the kits. I'll see if I can get set up very shortly. :) And learn how to home test. I told the vet I'm home testing cause I don't want to shoot and have Cain go hypo on me without knowing the numbers. He still wants me back in two weeks. I believe one other person he's treating is also home testing.
 
PZI is Protomine Zinc Insulin. The protomine zinc is what makes the insulin last a long time/slow release. There are different kinds of base insulin:
- Human recombinant insulin which is use in the the R and N insulin. It is also used the ProZinc PZI insulin
- Insulin obtained from cow pancreases. It is called bovine insulin. It can be compounded with PZI to make bovine PZI. BCP does sell that version
- Insulin obtained for pig pancreases. Called porcine insulin. There used to be a cat-use insulin called PZI Vet that was 90% bovine insulin and 10% porcine insulin.
 
Meanwhile...

Please pick up some urine ketone test strips from the pharmacy. Ketones form when fat breaks down. Too many, and you may get diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). It is potentially fatal and very expensive to treat because it nearly mandates 24 hour hospitalization. High levels are a medical emergency

See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for tips on using them, plus some other useful monitoring tactics.
 
- Human recombinant insulin which is use in the the R and N insulin. It is also used the ProZinc PZI insulin
- Insulin obtained from cow pancreases. It is called bovine insulin. It can be compounded with PZI to make bovine PZI. BCP does sell that version
- Insulin obtained for pig pancreases. Called porcine insulin. There used to be a cat-use insulin called PZI Vet that was 90% bovine insulin and 10% porcine insulin.
Click to expand...

Confusing enough? :lol:
As long as you call it "Prozinc", they'll know what it is your asking about.
 
regarding food - since you are feeding fancy feast already, lower carb ff is the classics version (pate style) and it is lower than the flaked style.

since you are not yet giving insulin, I'd suggest you change to the classics pate and see if that may help bring the numbers down.

regarding insulin - as already mentioned there are three main insulins that we recommend - lantus, levimer or prozinc. all three are good choices, it is important to understand handling, storage and how each insulin works - if you visit the insulin support group section, and visit each of the forums there, read the starred (stickies) information, you will learn about the insulins.

if you get lantus or levimer - there are $25 coupons - found in supply closet to help offset the cost.
 
Wow that is a wealth of information. I'm printing out the information now that y'all linked. I think the newest one might convince him the most. I even highlighted the part that recommended the Lantus type insulin or PZI. Even if I can't convince him to Lantus, he might be more amendable to PZI which he had mentioned at least. I'll take the printouts to his office in a bit and I'm going to request a new insulin.

I will also swing by Walmart and see about those Ketone sticks. I'm trying to arrange money to get the glucose reader and all the stuff that it needs. My dad knows that I need to get it so I'm hoping to order it today.

And yes that was confusing a little but I'll call it Prozinc. :)

Hillary, they were on strictly pate but dad mixed up which one to buy and they liked it so much that I kept picking it up. Usually they didn't like flaked. *shrug* I thought they were under 10% carbs but I didn't realize they were on the higher side. I'm going to make sure Brownie eats up the rest of the flaked ones... or try to anyways. Cain likes to start eating his food, realize his sister has food and go over to eat hers. She'll switch to eating his half the time. Oh and thank you for mentioning those coupons. Anything helps right now. :D

Oh I think he wants me back in two weeks to check Cain's glucose only. Well I I hope so, cause yesterday's visit was only supposed to be $25 or so and it ended up being $80. :/

Y'all have been awesome! Off I go to drop off information.
 
Walmart has a very good little meter that should run you around $20 give or take its been awhile since I bought one...But any one of these 3 work fine for cats and have the cheapest strips (which is where the real expense is) around...The Relion Prime is the cheapest and the newest but I believe takes a little more blood...Then there is the Relion Confirm and the Relion Micro...I have the micro and love it. The strips for both the Confirm and the Micro are interchangeable. But the last time I got strips for my Micro it was $20 for 50 strips I think when I originally bought it, it was like under $50 for the meter, 50 strips to get me started and the Ketostixs. And the best part no ordering and no coding to the meter just pop in a strip and test. :-D

Good luck with the vet and getting a better insulin.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Walmart has a very good little meter that should run you around $20 give or take its been awhile since I bought one...
Click to expand...

Highly recommend the Walmart meter the strip price is the biggest expense.

The ReliOn Prime is currently $16.24 and the Prime's strips are $9 for 50.
The ReliOn Confirm is $14.98 and the strips are twice the price, 19.98 for 50

I bought the Confirm because of the smaller drop of blood needed and I was a newbie tester, but I found that after the first few days, I had no problem getting enough blood and had plenty "left over", lol.

I might now donate my Confirm and get the Prime just because of the cheaper strips. It will pay for itself quickly.

I will say that many times I've been to Walmart there are NO STRIPS ON THE SHELVES! You have to ask the pharmacist for them..they keep them in the lockable plastic cases since they are a high theft item, and they have limited plastic cases. So the extras are kept behind the counter until someone can gather the cases from the checkout lanes, recase the strips and stock them on the shelves. So ask at the pharmacist counter if the strips appear to be sold out.
 
Well the info must have worked cause the vet office called me today and I picked up a new script for Glargine. However I don't have the money for the moment for it. And I need to see how much it's going to cost. That's probably the most expensive part of it all I guess.
 
Once you get the insulin, look at this thread for tips on how to handle it and load the syringes to make it last the longest so you get the best value out of it.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

There is also a video on YouTube that shows you how to load the syringes with the Lantus and not contaminate the insulin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4KtK_skpmQ

Also while waiting to get the insulin, try the pate foods and see how much his sugar will come down that way. When you're ready to start insulin he might be ready for a lower dose.

I'm also hoping to switch my cat to Lantus next week at her vet appt, but she's doing great just this past week on the diet changes...I've only had to give her two shots in the last 8 days.
 
It's expensive at first but remember it lasts up to six months if you keep it in the fridge and don't shake or roll it. (FYI the expiry on the label is more for humans not cats- many people here get 4-6months out of it.. Just keep an eye for flakes or cloudiness)
 
All right. I have some money so I'm going to get a meter and test strips and neosporin oinment?

And I'm going to check how much the glargine will be at Walmart while I'm there.
 
Is the Rx for pens or vial? If its for pens, you might fine a pharmacy that will sell 1 at a time.

Check the Supply Closet forum for offers.

You might also check Craigslist in your area to see if anyone has it.

And lastly, Canadian pharmacies are cheaper than US, though you need an Rx if you're from the states.

Lantus savings card signup
 
Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie Ketostix or ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
 
Ooh nice shopping list. Sorry for the absence. I was rebuilding my computer. It's now back up and running. :)

I was going to pick up the Relion Micro but they didn't have any strips. Nor did they have any strips for the Confirm. I asked at the pharmacy counter and they were completely out of strips for the two. But they had the Relion Prime and the strips so I got that one. The strips were cheaper per anyways. :) I also got a lancing device. It came with Ultra Thin lancelets which I think is 30g. I waited on getting a box of lancelets until I could confirm which size I needed. (Forgot to write it down.) And some Neosporin with pain relief ointment. I remember y'all said the cream didn't work as well.

I didn't think of cotton balls. I'll have to go back and pick up some and the high carb gravy food. And Karo syrup. We used to have some but my parents cleaned out the cabinet this weekend and I think they threw out the one we had. (Which was probably getting on to ten years old I bet. :) ) I have the mini flashlight. I keep one in my room in case of power outages. Oh and I have Ketone sticks. Just trying to catch him in the litter box to even try testing.

And I picked up some freeze dried chicken treats from Petsmart yesterday. I know Cain'll eat some of it. Keeping it away from Brownie will be another matter. She loves them.

Oh a sharps container... Um can it be any container? Or something specfic?

I don't know if the prescription was for pens or not. It says Glargine V-100. I think it's a V. The lady at Walmart said it was $152 cash to get it. Which I think I'll have that this week. Dad's offering to pay for half of it.
 
Hello and welcome! :YMHUG:

Narillan said:
Oh a sharps container... Um can it be any container? Or something specfic?
Click to expand...

You don't need a Sharps container. The easiest way is the at-home needle destruction. SAFEST METHOD: you can buy one of those needle clippers they sell at the pharmacy for a couple of bucks. Or, you can recap the needle and simply twist it off the syringe. You can toss the syringe in the trash and then toss the recapped needle into an empty container with a screw-top lid (like an empty detergent bottle). It takes years to fill one of those up with just needles and when you do, you make sure the container is marked "do not recycle" and you can throw it away in the regular garbage.

Narillan said:
I don't know if the prescription was for pens or not. It says Glargine V-100. I think it's a V. The lady at Walmart said it was $152 cash to get it. Which I think I'll have that this week. Dad's offering to pay for half of it.
Click to expand...

Lantus is the brand name for Glargine. With Lantus, I've discovered a few effective cost-cutting methods.
  • Make sure you have a prescription for the Solostar Pens from the vet. Lantus can start losing its potency after 4-6 months (make sure you keep it refrigerated and there is no need to roll it!). Since the vial contains quite a lot more insulin, you end up losing quite a lot more insulin in comparison to the pen. (Just make sure you use syringes and don't use the "Dial-in dose.")
  • Sign up for the Lantus Savings Card online and print it out to take with you to the pharmacy.
  • Call around and find a pharmacy that will sell the Lantus pens individually (instead of in the box of 5). I had luck with my local Walmart, others have had luck with Mom&Pop pharmacies.
  • Make sure they also take the Solostar Savings Card (most all places should since it's a manufacturer's discount, including my local Walmart).
  • Finally, pay only $25 a pen (up to 6 pens). Each pen will last you quite a few months (usually to the last drop).
 
Narillan said:
I started searching the internet and found a vet's website (whose name I can't remember) all about switching to wet food and I found this site as well. I've been feeding them both Fancy Feast 3 oz cans. Usually the pate varieties though I've been giving them some flaked ones as well.
Click to expand...

I might have missed it in your thread, but I don't believe anyone has shared with you the commercial food list most of us use here for finding low carb, wet food. Look for anything less than 10% carbs (the lower the better). The entire website is all about cat nutrition and its influences on feline health, so this is most likely the website you've seen before. :-D

And one last link for the moment to help you get started with ear-poking testing.
violent2.gif
 
Is there any way to tell on the prescription that it's for the pens? I'm kinda worried about asking to amend this prescription to pens after I had to bring info to him to just get this prescription.

Thank you for the food list link and the link to how to test on his ear. :D

I've been feeding them both now just the pates so hopefully it's working a bit.
 
Narillan said:
Yup it says V on it so it's probably for the vial then. I took the prescription back and requested an amendment if it was possible. :)
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be too hard to write "pen" instead of "vial," so hopefully you won't have any problems with that. :lol:
 
I had my first successful home test! :) Though I think I poked through the ear, poor cat. I couldn't get the lancing device to work right so I did the poking manually. I followed the instructions here and here.

I got 367 on the meter. I think it's been a while since he ate but I don't believe it was two hours. Though it might have been close. I gave him a chicken treat and then fed both of them since they were wanting food before I did the testing.

I got the prescription amended. Just have to get by Wal-mart and hope this savings card works.

What do I do with the test strips when I'm done with them? I know to put the lancelets in a container for future disposal but what about the strips?
 
Congratulations! You are now an official member of the vampire club :o

Just throw the strip in the trash.
Keep up the good work \M/
 
Welcome!

Regarding Walmart not having strips on the shelf ... I found the same problem, and now I order them online. if you order more than $50 the shipping is free. And if you start by hitting the WALMART icon at the top of this page, FDMB gets the affiliate fee - that's a couple percentage back to FMDB and it doesn't cost you a thing!

Good luck!
Lisa & Leo
 
Deb & Wink said:
Regarding Walmart not having strips on the shelf ...
Click to expand...
And a lot of times, if you ask at the pharmacy counter, they have more strips behind the counter.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, but generally not for the 100 packs. Just my experience around my place. I get the largest pack because they are the cheapest per strip and they are out of the probably half the times I go there. Don't let that scare anyone away from using Walmart products though - they are great and inexpensive. I just learned the hard way that they don't always have strips in stock so I've always had at least 300 on hand.
 
And he fought me the second time. I guess I held him too long or something. I was trying the other ear, but it was more awkward with the way I was holding him. I swear I needed a third hand. :) I gave him a treat anyway and I'll try again in an hour. Now if I can get this lancelet device working. I think the lancelets included are too short to even peer past the opening. Even at the longest setting. Edit: Ok this might just be a crappy lancelet device. I picked up the ReliOn one since I was getting everything else there. Maybe I should pick up another brand.

Oh for those strips for the other meters, they were even out at the pharmacy counter. Completely ran out and it was midday. I guess they under ordered that week or something. Though good idea about ordering online.
 
Ok. I got the Lantus pens. They cost me $164.72 with the savings card. I think technically they'll last longer than the vial. I hope so. This was expensive. (Though it wasn't the cost the lady quoted me on saturday. :/ Should have figured that was too good of a price.) They need to live in the fridge right? So that they last longer? I'm thinking not in the door but more towards the back.

I just realized the lady at the counter didn't give me the syringes I was asking for. I was given a box of short pen needles which I guess goes with the pens. I can't use those right? Too bad I opened them. I don't think I can return them. I did buy another set of lancelets in 26g to see if drawing blood from Cain will be easier. They had 30g or 26g. No 29g that I saw.

I really thought the pharmacist was understanding and I was thinking man they must have several come through with Lantus prescriptions. So one unit once per day is a different measurement than the one unit the pen gives? (Sorry if this seems really dumb. I'm running on too little sleep.)

So I'm going to go by Walgreens or Walmart tonight and pick up syringes. Well some anyways. I'm nearly out of cash. What do I ask for specifcially to get the U-100 with the half marks?
 
- Yes, you need to keep the pens in the fridge.
- You can use the pen needles but you can only does in 1 unit increments. Also, I tried using a pen with my Tonis. He was on 8 units. I found it harder to inject with the pen than a syringe and went back to the syringe. Note that one you get any air in the pen like from using a syringe, using a pen needle will result in inaccurate dosing. I would try to return the pens needles says that they messed up.
- One unit by the pne/pen needle is the same a one unit via a syringe.
- You mentioned one dose per day. That is fine for humans but very few cats can get by with one shot per day. Most need two shots daily.
 
Oh sorry I was thinking one dose but twice daily. I didn't write it right. >_< Kinda fuzzy right now. :) It does say on the dosing instructions one unit sub-Q twice daily.

Erg I just saw on the pen needle box that it cannot be returned even unopened. Which it's totally opened. Guess I'll keep them around in case the doctor puts my mom on insulin. (She's pre-diabetic at the moment.)

Edit: I have a signature now. :D I put in the spreadsheet I'm using which I'm keeping track of his numbers now while I'm testing them before I got the insulin. Hopefully I'm doing this right.
 
Yes keep the pens in the fridge and not the door. Even when "open" they keep up to six months.

For U-100 syringes (Lantus, Levemir), get 3/10 cc, half-unit marked, short needle, 30-31 gauge ie Relion 3/10cc 30 & 31 gauge short, BD Ultra fine 3/10cc short, Terumo Thinpro Insulin Syringe 31G 3/10cc.

You could try to freehand the lancet and not use to device. Gives you more control.

Great job on the spreadsheet! Lots of reds... Sooner he gets on insulin the better. Have you tested for ketones recently?

He's only getting fancy feast classic pâtés right? No dry or dry treats?

Wendy
 
I keep trying to catch him to test for ketones. Unfortunately he's been going when I'm asleep or too far away to grab the tester before he finishes. I'm debating putting a bowl there at this point.

Hmm I'm not sure what I got for syringes. I asked for U-100 syringes and got 1cc 29g 12.7mm syringes. I didn't realize I needed short ones. So uh guess I'll be ordering those shortly. I asked for half marked but I guess these aren't. I've been freehanding the lancelet since the device is useless. (Or I'm setting it up wrong. Either way.) I should give him the first dose tonight right? I'm going to test at midnight central time.. Will those syringes be okay to give a dose? The vet said one unit twice a day.

Yes, just fancy feast classic pates. I did pick up one fish and shrimp flaked but only cause that one is 0% carb. I haven't fed that to them yet. Only treats I've been giving them is the dried chicken pieces from Simply Nourish. It was the only freeze dried ones that Petsmart had. They had another brand but I didn't see it there when I bought these. If Cain's finding something else, the only thing I can think of is popcorn. Mom sometimes drops some on the floor.
 
I'm all anxious about this upcoming shot in about thirty-ish minutes. Do I need to warm up the Lantus by letting it sit out? Or can I put it in the syringe and shoot it cold from the fridge?
 
I got my questions answered. I was being silly and not posting in the Lantus board for some of those questions. :)

Cain tested better tonight with the 26g lancelet. He's still trying to get his ear free but I think he's starting to get used to it. Several chicken bits helps I'm sure.
 
I just saw this:

Narillan said:
Hmm I'm not sure what I got for syringes. I asked for U-100 syringes and got 1cc 29g 12.7mm syringes.
Click to expand...

And, thank goodness you re-posted in Lantus!

Marje and Gracie said:
Hi Cain and Brownie

Those are not the correct syringes and you don't need or want to warm or roll the insulin. You need U100, 3/10cc syringes. I like the short needle and 1/2 unit markings.
Click to expand...

Marje is awesome. :-D :mrgreen: :-D :mrgreen: :-D :mrgreen: :-D
 
Definitely awesome. :D

Sadly I didn't realize your link, KPassa, in the signature had the exact U-100 syringe type I should be getting till I got home with the 1cc ones. Ah well. They weren't expensive at least. :) I'm going to get the right ones tomorrow morning and then I'll start Cain on his first Lantus shot after I test him.
 
Ok I have finally managed to get to the litter box while Cain was peeing and pulled a quick sample with a paper plate. I then used that sample to test for ketones. Assuming I did the test right (waited 15secs then compared), he's testing negative. I did two tests to make sure.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top