Hello

Status
Not open for further replies.
mimi4neeyah and Loki

mimi4neeyah and Loki

Active Member
I am Loki and I are not new here but it was recommended that I come here since we use ProZinc. I am having a hard time with Loki's # and speak to my vet daily but I so want to do this right. Also it was recommended that I did not do the SS right. I am not that great with computers and charts, could you guys looks at his SS and see where it's wrong? Thanks more info is in my previous posts.
 
Welcome again! This forum is smaller than the Health forum but everyone here has experience with your insulin. Also, one of the things that can be helpful is to check out other people's spreadsheets. Although every cat is different, you can get an idea of how they track doses and how they dose different trends and patterns. So post here and then return to read the thread as it takes us awhile to get back to you. If you ever have an emergency, post on Health. Carl and I post on both Health and here but we don't have current spreadsheets like some of the others (both our cats went OTJ)

I don't see anything wrong with your spreadsheet; it comes up fine. It is a little wide because you put 2 lines in the dose box. If you want it to shorten up, you can put something like 1.5U in the dose box and then put vet remarks or other remarks over on the far left.

As far as dosing, I know it is hard to get advice that conflicts with your vet but I don't think his/her vet has gotten you very far in the process. We like to be pretty systematic about this dance. You "sort of" did that. You held a dose for a couple cycles and then raised. But the raises were all based on the preshot numbers. You need at least one midcycle number every few cycles to see how low the insulin takes him. If he was dropping low between the red preshots, then raising the dose just makes that an endless cycle of highs and lows.

So now at 2.5 units, you are getting some blues midcycle and he does seem to be bouncing from those. (very common in new diabetics) Bouncing is when their body reacts to a low number (which they haven't felt recently) with additional glucose, resulting in a high number. But it isn't a "normal" high number; it is a reaction to a low number. So we say not to shoot a bounce, but to continue with the same dose or possibly lower it.

Did you skip the evening shot on 7/12 and 7/13? It is best if you can chase a lower preshot number by not feeding, waiting 20 minutes and testing again to see if the number is high enough to shoot, rather than skipping.

I think the insulin is working pretty well. It's just a matter of getting more data and interpreting the data correctly. We can help with the interpretation if you get the data.

What was your preshot this am?
 
Hi and welcome to PZI,

Loki's picture took my breath away, it looks so much like Harley's old pic. I'll try to attach it.

I can see your ss just fine. Like Sue said we like to be systematic with the dosing, start low go slow, we don't advocate big dose increases so that you won't jump over the best dose by going too fast.

I'll have to go to health and read your older posts to catch up.

Harley's old Avatar
 

Attachments

  • Harley phpxVqqqO_c3PM.jpg
    Harley phpxVqqqO_c3PM.jpg
    3.6 KB · Views: 549
Thanks so much for your help, just tested Loki at 12:30 and he is at 267 from 435 this morning at 8AM will recheck him at 4PM. This AM I gave him 2 1/2 units as per protocol. I also updated his SS. Have to keep at it no matter how discouraged I get.
Wow Rob and Harley, your right they could be twins and the same pose too. cat_pet_icon
 
Darn spreadsheet isn't working.

Try this.. Go back to your copy. Go over to the LH side of the ss and choose File, then Publish, the Publish to the web. That should bring up a box with an url that has a "pub" in the middle. Highlight and copy that url.

When you get back to your signature

Type this in front of the long url. Loki's SS
Then choose Submit.

That sound work. If it doesn't, send me a pm and I'll see if I can fix it for you.
 
Sue, I just tried this and it worked....just copy the ss address, minus the "url" code, and paste it in the url box in your browser, and it works. Short term fix anyway.

Carl
 
OK, I understand what people who said your SS was "wrong" were talking about, and it's not a big deal.
If you look at other's spreadsheets, you'll see that they all use only one line per day. On most days, you have two lines for each day, one you put like 7:00AM and on the next you put 7:00PM. That's the only thing I see that isn't "normal" about it.
You don't even need to fix it. Just from now on, you put the date on the far left, and you put the AM dose in the first blue column, and the PM dose in the other blue column. If you get any tests between shots, AM or PM, you just go to the column that says how many hours past shot time it was (+3, +6, +9, etc) and put the reading in that column.

The trick to this is to find a dose that will let you shoot every 12 hours, the same amount. I know you've had trouble with that because Loki's numbers have been all over the place at shot time. But part of that is because you have adjusted the dose based on the number. That isn't too bad if the numbers "make sense" and you can adjust a small amount if you need to. But jumping from 2.5 to .5 and then back to 2.5 makes it really hard to figure out what is going on. It looks like 2.5 is too much, but not all the time. It looks like .5 definitely isn't enough, even on a yellow number.

I think my advice would be to drop down to 2.0, and to stick with that number unless you see a preshot test that is below 250. Try to stick with the same dose for 3-4 days in a row, no matter if you see a higher number. And try to get a test or two, when possible someplace "in the middle" like you have been doing. One day you could test at +4 and +8, then next day maybe just at +6? The more squares you can fill in over the course of 3 or 4 days, the better picture you will have of what his normal cycles might be.
If you stay with 2.0, AND you see a lower than 250 preshot, then post and ask for advice on a lower dose? If nobody seems to be around in PZI, post in Health. If you go to the bottom of any index page, there's a button there that says "who is online". If you click on that, it will show you who is on, and it will also show you what forum they are currently looking at. See if anyone is on "Feline Health", and you'll know that somebody will see your question when you post it.
Or you can even click on their name if you recognize it, and be able to send them a PM and ask them to take a look at your questions.
Carl
 
I can see your ss by copying just the url and pasting it, but let's try to get it fixed today. (again, let me know if I can help)

No pmps last night? Did you shoot last night? It was a nice looking run yesterday. Without the pmps, we can't tell whether your amps is a bounce or a high number. You were right in an earlier post -consistency is so important to get the whole picture.
 
I think I fixed the SS please let me know also you will see this morning's pre shot # was 71, the vet has Loki on a no shot # of 100.
will test again at 12 like yesterday.
Thanks
 
Hi, my name is Lori and i have a BIG organe maine coon kitty with FD. We have been on PZI since Nov. We are just now starting to see some good results. But it is a daily thing. SOmedays good, somedays bad. But, think we found a dose. The people on this site have helped us so much and couldn't of done it without them. I've learned the hard way though, that start low is go slow is the best approach. My vet reccommended 2.0u 2x day. It was too much. Now we are starting to go even lower. He had neuoropathy very bad and just starting to see some improvement in this area too.

Good luck and listen to the consel of the group. They are good!

lori
 
mimi4neeyah and Loki said:
... this morning's pre shot # was 71, the vet has Loki on a no shot # of 100.
Click to expand...

Great advice from the vet! What we try to do with our sugar babies, when they test low like that is hold off feeding and test again in 20-30 minutes to see if it changes. For a low of 71, it's possible Loki wouldn't come up enough for a shot, but you never know...could have been a wonky strip (doesn't happen often but it can) or Loki could start to sky rocket up into shootable numbers. There have been a few times I've had to wait and re-test on Poopy 2-3 times before he came up enough to give him a shot. Sort of messes with the shooting schedule a bit but helps keep the insulin in them, working at making them better. :smile:

It's quite a dance we learn to do. :lol:
 
Well, surprising amps number. Can you chase it today and shoot when he reaches 200? (If at all possible, it is better not to skip completely. ) Regardless of whether you shoot later this am or tonight, a reduction is in order. Any time you get a number that low, it is an indicator that the dose is too high. (Either he went very low overnight or it was a really long cycle at lower numbers.) I would go back to 2 units if you are around to monitor; maybe 1.5 if you are not. If you skip, remember that the higher number this pm is not a "true" number, but because he will have been 24 hours since his last shot. So you still reduce from the 2.25. Does that make any sense?

Your ss works!
 
My heart is beating way too fast just tested Loki at 4PM and he is 545, at 12 Noon he was 416, from 71 this morning, just called the vet and she said to recheck tonight at his usual time then give him the usual dose of 2 1/2.
My poor boy is all over the place and I am a wreck.
 
Try not to panic. As Sue would say Breeeeeath.

A few posts up Sue pointed out that his bg might shoot up because 1) he probably is reacting to the lower than usual bg over night or 2) it has been almost 24 hours since he last got insulin or 3) Both.

Breeeeath. Although I remember very clearly that panic that takes over when you see those kinds of numbers.

If I were a bettin woman, which I'm not. I would put my money on the fact that he went low last night, lower than he has been used to and his body thought he was in danger and his liver dumped glucose to protect him. It will wear off.

I would seriously consider lowering your dose as Sue suggested so you don't have to repeat this cycle over and over again.
 
Here is some info on rebound that might help: Rebound You might send it to your vet and see if it sounds logical to him.

Robin is right. This is most likely rebound or a bounce (same thing, different words) He went low last night and his body panicked and dumped extra glucose. The trick is not to react to that, but to shoot a lower dose. If you shoot 2.5 again today, you run the risk of the same scenerio tomorrow - low overnight, a number to low to shoot. Roller coaster!

Check out bookworm's spreadsheet. Cassie was one of our best bouncers early on. He has finally decided to slow down and be more regular, bouncing every so often, throwing a flat cycle every so often, but generally giving nice numbers, cycle after cycle.
 
I will third of fourth the advice about dropping his dose. I think you are seeing a bounce combined with the expected higher BG due to skipping a shot this morning.
Don't freak out! Yes, you see a high red or black number and it is logical to be panicked. But, high numbers for a day will eventually go away. Having numbers that go too low for a few minutes is a lot worse, and a lot more risky.

No matter what number you see at shot time tonight, I would suggest a dose of 2.0 or less. High numbers from bouncing go away on their own. High numbers from skipped shots go away once you give him some insulin and are able to shoot twice a day rather than just once.

I know it is extremely hard to not focus on the latest numbers you see. But sometimes, a good thing to do is reduce the zoom on your spreadsheet and look at the patterns of colors, and ignore the numbers. It's the patterns that help you figure this dance out. The more days you are able to get mid-cycle tests (which you have been doing a great job of lately), the more easy the patterns are to see.
You're doing a much better job with Loki than you probably think you are!

Carl
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top