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Arthur's Mum

Member Since 2023
Hello!
My name is Jayne and my boy is Arthur and 8 year old moggy, who was diagnosed with diabetes at the beginning of October and it’s been a rollercoaster!
He was initially on Caninsulin, and slowly went up to 6 units from 2 units on day one. He seemed to get worse, symptoms wise, and our vet increased it by one unit each time but he just kept going downhill rapidly. We bought a monitor (which was fun getting it to pierce his ear and actually draw blood!) and his numbers varied between 12 and 33 so much.
So, the vet agreed that he was “bouncing” and said he’d put him on Prozinc, to start at 1 unit and he seemed to pick up. He’s more or less back to himself, but, his numbers aren’t really reducing. 18.4 before his food and insulin this morning, but now 21! He’s sick of his ears being punctured and that causes stress. Our vet wanted to raise his dose to 1.5 but we did it to 1.25 and he’s been so good on it. Seeing his latest curve, he told us to give him 2 units, I just know that will send Arthur a step back because yesterday I accidentally gave him 1.5 and he went back to being asleep all day!
So sorry for the long post and I hope you can understand my ramblings!
 
Hi, Jayne. Welcome to this incredible group. You and Arthur are very fortunate to have found us and we are glad you are here.

I am going to include a link to a conversation that just occurred with a new member. It has all the information you'll need to get started here. The is also links on the insulin your vet has prescribed and why it isn't the best for cats.

I'm not here to offer advice other than providing you this link and to say hello and welcome.

Here is the link. Read the thread in its entirety. Ask any questions you may have, please.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-11-8-and-i-am-tired.283363/#post-3121360
 
Hi Jayne,

6 units is a crazy high starting dose. We recommend starting at 1 unit and we also recommend doing dose adjustments by 1/4 unit so you don’t speed past the ideal dose. Caninsulin is named that because it was created for canines who have a much slower metabolism than cats. It’s a harsh fast acting insulin that doesn’t last the full 12 hours between shots. Because it’s such a fast acting insulin, with caninsulin it’s important you feed at least 30 minutes before you administer the shots. You may want to read and share with your vet the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of diabetes in both dogs and cats. the AAHA no longer recommends Caninsulin/Vetsulin for treating feline diabetes.

what are you feeding him right now and how often?

Are you warming up the ear before you test and given a low carb treat immediately after each test? It helps build positive association.

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help. If you can get a spreadsheet set up, we’d be happy to give you dosing advice.

With a diabetic cat you need:

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day. It sounds like your using a pet meter right?
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions!
 
Hello Jayne and Arthur,

To recap (correct me if I'm wrong) - your cat started on Caninsulin, got up to 6 units, symptoms got worse, and then he was switched to Prozinc at a much lower dose?
The vet wants to increase dose based on latest curve, but you don't think that's the right thing for Arthur?

Jayne Pickard said:
...his numbers aren’t really reducing. 18.4 before his food and insulin this morning, but now 21!
Click to expand...
Don't stress about the '21' too much. It's just one number, and may not be a big deal in the scheme of things. :bighug:


Jayne Pickard said:
Seeing his latest curve, he told us to give him 2 units, I just know that will send Arthur a step back because yesterday I accidentally gave him 1.5 and he went back to being asleep all day!
Click to expand...
A curve just gives us a snapshot of one day. And what happens on one day may not necessarily be 'typical' of what happens on other days. For that reason it's not usually/necessarily sound to increase dosage solely on the basis of a single curve.

How often have you been testing?
 
Basic's Mom said:
Hi, Jayne. Welcome to this incredible group. You and Arthur are very fortunate to have found us and we are glad you are here.

I am going to include a link to a conversation that just occurred with a new member. It has all the information you'll need to get started here. The is also links on the insulin your vet has prescribed and why it isn't the best for cats.

I'm not here to offer advice other than providing you this link and to say hello and welcome.

Here is the link. Read the thread in its entirety. Ask any questions you may have, please.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-11-8-and-i-am-tired.283363/#post-3121360
Click to expand...
Hi and thanks for the welcome!

I'm a bit confused...Arthur is on Prozinc not the one mentioned in the link you posted!
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Hi Jayne,

6 units is a crazy high starting dose. We recommend starting at 1 unit and we also recommend doing dose adjustments by 1/4 unit so you don’t speed past the ideal dose. Caninsulin is named that because it was created for canines who have a much slower metabolism than cats. It’s a harsh fast acting insulin that doesn’t last the full 12 hours between shots. Because it’s such a fast acting insulin, with caninsulin it’s important you feed at least 30 minutes before you administer the shots. You may want to read and share with your vet the guidelines from the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of diabetes in both dogs and cats. the AAHA no longer recommends Caninsulin/Vetsulin for treating feline diabetes.

what are you feeding him right now and how often?

Are you warming up the ear before you test and given a low carb treat immediately after each test? It helps build positive association.

Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help. If you can get a spreadsheet set up, we’d be happy to give you dosing advice.

With a diabetic cat you need:

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day. It sounds like your using a pet meter right?
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions!
Click to expand...

Hello!

He didn't start on 6 units, he got up to 6 units in 6 weeks, slowly starting from 1 and each time we sent in his readings, the vet put it up a whole unit. It wasn't until we began to read up on things, that we realised he should have increased by at least 0.50 but ideally 0.25 units! He isn't on Caninsulin any more because he didn't react well to it, he was put on Prozinc three weeks ago and 1.25 units seems to be doing okay for him, just his numbers aren't coming down that much.

I am in the UK too, so I'm assuming things work a little differently here?

Yes we always warm his ear with a little rice bag we made from a sock. He's very good, knows when we're testing that he has to stay still etc. but doesn't always co-operate! He just gets stressed when we do his curve (weekly right now), he's always been very skittish, the original scaredy cat!

Food: He's always had an all natural diet, starting goff on Applaws, then moving to Untamed, but is now on KatKin which is a human grade meat/fish food, delivered frozen and kept in the fridge once thawed. He and his brother Aslan have a tray twice daily, with small treats in between, which are dried chicken or salmon from the same company.

The things you suggest, we do/have apart from the human monitor, we have invested in an AlphaTrak because our vet won't accept readings from a human one anyway. We test before he eats and after he's had his insulin, then midway through the day, then again before his insulin/food in the evening. Then once a week we do a full curve testing every 2-3 hours for our vet until he's regulated. I had a spreadsheet with a group on Facebook, which I found hard work and hadn't a clue how to get it filled out to begin with; I'm quite tick savvy, but that just confused me!

We have a hypo kit which touch wood, we haven't needed so far.
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Hello Jayne and Arthur,

To recap (correct me if I'm wrong) - your cat started on Caninsulin, got up to 6 units, symptoms got worse, and then he was switched to Prozinc at a much lower dose?
The vet wants to increase dose based on latest curve, but you don't think that's the right thing for Arthur?


Don't stress about the '21' too much. It's just one number, and may not be a big deal in the scheme of things. :bighug:



A curve just gives us a snapshot of one day. And what happens on one day may not necessarily be 'typical' of what happens on other days. For that reason it's not usually/necessarily sound to increase dosage solely on the basis of a single curve.

How often have you been testing?
Click to expand...

Yes, that's right on all counts!

Our vet is very old fashioned in his thinking and he said it's been a while since he had a diabetic cat. He pushes diabetic foods onto us each time we have any contact, whether that's by email or in an appointment at the surgery or a phone call, we're happy with his diet. That's so reassuring reading your comment about one number...we test him three to four times a day at the moment with a curve weekly for the vet to see how he's doing. When he gets those readings, he automatically increased the Caninsulin by one unit each time; with the Prozinc he's done it by half units, but as I said, we've found that 1.50 is too much for Arthur. I'm seriously thinking of changing vets!
 
Welcome. Waving from Canada.

If you could set up a spreadsheet, we would have a better idea of the dosing. After reading a post, the first thing we do is look at the spreadsheet. If you input the numbers in the World spreadsheet, it automatically converts the numbers to US numbers.
How to Create a Spreadsheet

How to Use the Spreadsheet
Arthur's Mum said:
we've found that 1.50 is too much for Arthur. I'm seriously thinking of changing vets!
Click to expand...
Just in case Arthur goes too low (below 3.8 on an Alpha Trak).
Arthur's Mum said:
The things you suggest, we do/have apart from the human monitor, we have invested in an AlphaTrak because our vet won't accept readings from a human one anyway
Click to expand...
AlphaTrak strips can be crazy expensive. If you want to switch to a human meter, tell your vet that the strips are too expensive. Before pet meters were invented, vets used human meters. This forum is conversant in both pet and human meters.
 
Arthur's Mum said:
He isn't on Caninsulin...
Click to expand...
Apologies, I missed the part where you switched him to prozinc. That’s great and I’m tagging a prozinc experience member here for you @Suzanne & Darcy

it’s also really good that you’re feeding treats in addition to the main meals. Smaller meals or treats during the day are easier on their pancreas and help avoid big sugar spikes.

I could be wrong, but I think if you’re testing enough you could do a curve every 2 weeks instead. I think it’s great for vets to say they only accept pet meter readings if they’re going to pay for the expensive test strips. What about the libre? That’s a human meter they put on pets all the time :rolleyes:
 
Hi Jayne. I can help you with ProZinc dosing. Hopefully you can get that spreadsheet up and running soon.
How many times a day are you testing? Can you write down what his preshot numbers are and tell me what other tests you get and how many hours after the shot they are? We say +2, +4, etc. for two hours after the shot and four hours after the shot, etc. This is because we are mostly on different time zones.
 
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