Hello, new here -- Charlie with diabetes and CRF

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CharliesDad

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Hello,

My 9 year-old male tabby/white cat, Charlie, was diagnosed with diabetes approx. 2 years ago. My vet actually recommended this forum to me then. We stabilisd him on 3U of PZI insulin twice a day, without home blood glucose testing, and changed his diet. We saw an immediate improvement in his health and quality of life, and aside from upsets when we go away on holiday, he has been stable and active (and very cuddly) for the last 2 years.

Unfortunately I recently moved house (apartment) and there have been a few other changes to my routine (divorce...)... Charlie became quite depressed and stopped eating regularly. I eventually took him to the vet and after a week on IV fluids and with high Creatinine and BUN blood levels, he has been diagnosed with kidney disease. As he was rehydrated, his numbers fell over the week, but they are still high.

After a 8200 RMB vet bill ($1200 us), they have done as much as they can -- they have stabilised his blood sugar and kidney parameters. BUN and CREA levels were falling but still high and beginning to plateau.

I have him home now and am to administer 90ml of sub-Q fluids twice a day, as well as pills once a day and an oral suspension twice a day. The sub-q injections seem awful (to me) -- I've successfully given them to him this morning, with no big issues (he didn't seem to mind at all), but 90ml twice a day seems like a huge amount of water for Charlie to soak up. He looks like a lopsided camel afterwards!

To be honest the most traumatic part is the oral suspension -- he hates the taste and forcing it down him isn't our favourite part of the day.

He is relatively active, albeit very weak and thin, and still seems to feel quite sick -- he's not too dehydrated, but doesn't really have much of an apetite. He miaows for food, but then doesn't really display much interest. His food is 50% royal canin obesity management (for his diabetes), and 50% renal s/o. Until recently he had no problem with the obesity food -- in fact I credit this as being the biggest factor in his improvement in diabetes symptoms. However, he's since gone off it. He seems to like the renal failure food even less. As an emergency measure (as, obviously, he has to eat when receiving insulin), I've been mixing in 1/3 can of human tuna fish... which of course he eats (tries to pick the fish out of the rest of the mixture, but it's a relief to see him eating). He'd rather hang over his water bowl than eat food. He'd clearly much prefer wet food.. I'm going to try adding pieces of chicken, low-phos baby food, making a mush, etc... I live in China, so there are basically no brand-name wet foods other than whiskas I can feed. Prior to the CRF I always ensured he finished his food in one siting, and removed any uneaten food, to manage his blood sugar curve. However, now as he is so thin and has a limited appetite, I have no choice but to leave it down and hope he picks at it (he seems to).

I know I need to start home blood glucose testing, and will do so -- particularly now as his diet will obviously be in flux until we find something new. It's just an additional point of discomfort for both of us.... getting a pill down, then 1ml of oral suspension, then insulin with breakfast, then 30 mins later, a big hump of water added to his back. He's very good natured about all of this considering... but getting an ear prick in addition to this is just another negative notch on the quality of life scale. He already looks like a pincusion after returning from the vet.

This is still day one of him being back at home, so it is all a bit overwhelming now... I have a busy job and so the pill, oral suspension, insulin and sub-q fluids are all a bit much before I rush out to work. In addition, most of the interaction I now have with Charlie will be giving him discomfort, which troubles me... He will go back to the vet for more blood work after 10 days, and I am hoping that a more relaxed sub-q schedule will be possible longer-term. The thought of his neck being full of holes -- some replete with water seeping out -- isn't a nice one.

I guess after 10 days it will be clearer how long he has and how our quality of life will be. Fortunately he is a lovely, affectionate family cat. He's always been very cuddly -- although very sensitive and needy.

I do wonder how the big mass of fluid injected in basically the same area as the insulin will have an effect on insulin uptake. I guess only BG testing will show me this.

John & Charlie

P.S. Now I'm beginning home BG testing, I've been creating an iPhone app to track and chart Charlie's blood glucose levels. I've been learning iOS development and saw this as a good opportunity to make something useful. I hope once it is good enough to share, I'll be able to post more information about it here.

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HI John, sorry to hear Charlie isn't feeling so good these days. I am very glad to hear you'll be doing home testing for the blood glucose - to me its THE most important part of diabetes management. On the oral suspension issue - I have done this in the past because my cat HATES the taste of liquid medicine and foams at the mouth - you can go to a natural health food store and buy empty gelatin capsules. Put the oral suspension in the capsule and seal it up - then slime it in some baby food or other favorite canned food and pop it in. Since there is no taste there wont be any fight on it. On the CRF that is another great site that is just as good as this one - its called Tanya's CRF site - http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids.htm. The 90mls of fluids twice a day does seem to me to be high - the general recommendation is 100ml once a day. I think as your cats kidneys stabilize its worth asking the vet why he thinks its necessary twice a day and if you can back down to once a day. Generally speaking fluids are a key part of keeping your cat feeling good with CRF so its a treatment that is likely to be ongoing. There is a supplement available called Azodyl that can help slow down the course of renal disease. Its a bit on the spendy side ($38.00 US) and has to be kept refrigerated but its had enough success to be studied by the University of Colorado. I use it with my cat and its brought her BUN and Creatnine levels down significantly (along with the subq fluids). On the food front its best to find a low carb/low phosphorus food to fit both the diabetes and crf. Janet and Binkys list is really good for carb values but not so accurate on phosphorus. Tanya's list has good phosphorus values not so good carb listings - so I would cross check the two lists for a low carb low phosphorus choices. The main thing is getting your cat to eat - so you can buy the best food on the planet but it they won't eat it doesn't work. Fortunately insulin is adjustable so if you do need to feed a food with a higher carb content you can work with it. It is work having a cat with both diabetes and crf but after you get a routine down its not so bad. I have made it a point to go an cuddle with Sitka during the times when I'm not giving meds so that she won't think every time I come near her its going to be bad. Giving treats during treatments also works wonders. Sitka gets a treat after ear testing/insulin and while getting her fluids so she doesn't think its too bad of a deal LOL. Hope your kitty is feeling better soon. Jan
 
What a sweet picture of Charlie! Welcome John to the best site on the planet to help you help Charlie. There is a wealth of information here but more important people who truly care and willing to help.
Way to go on learning to hometest blood sugar. It your best tool in diabetes management.
Again welcome,
jeanne
 
Welcome to FDMB Charlie & Charlie's Dad. I'm so sorry for Charlie's CRF diagnosis, but it is treatable. There are a couple of yahoo groups that can be very helpful: Feline-CRF-Support@yahoogroups.com and feline-crf-info@yahoogroups.com. And of course Tanya's website felinecrf.org. These groups/sites can help you find the best, most comfortable needles to use for the fluids and can help with supplements and meds. The fluids will get easier and it really does make them feel better. I used to give Blackie's fluid in the center of his back between the shoulder blades so that the fluids wouldn't go so much down the side. I would inject the insulin farther back on his flank. FYI - the fluids can lower the bgs in some cats temporarily, so it would be helpful to home test. There were some days that I had to delay the shot because the fluids had lowered the bgs too much to be safe.

What are the pills and oral suspension you are giving Charlie? Is he getting something for nausea and appetite? I hope you can work out all the meds and timing and such. Sending prayers for you and Charlie.
 
Thank you very much!

I tried to test BG last night. After 3 pricks eventually got a drop of blood... which immediately got absorbed into the tissue I was holding behind his ear. I'll try again tonight. I expect it will become second nature. It's important as his diet is in flux (likely much higher glycemic index than before).

His medications are famotidine (1/4 pill/day) and sucralfate (1ml 2x/day). I thought I had successfully given hm the pill yesterday, but this morning found it stuck inside the piller :-( ...

The good news is, he's got a bit of strength back. The bad news is, it was enough to play silly when getting his pills and suspension -- He scratched me and I lost my patience with him after a while :-( . Fortunately all was forgotten by breakfast time.... and the sub-q's are easier.

He is doing "OK" on his 3U or insulin and 90ml of fluids -- much more active now, but urinating heavily still. Unfortunately his food is far richer than before -- he won't touch the renal food or diabetes low-carb food any more. I resorted to chicken pouches, which he loved. He is still skeletal-thin, so I'm glad to see him eating. I'm trying everything -- I have an assortment of 15 different foods. None of them publish phosphorus content. But we'll get a handle on that...

I worry that he is still somewhat dehydrated even after 90ml twice a day -- his nose in generally not wet. When he came home, his BUN and CREA numbers basically show stage 3 or 4 kidney failure.... either they were pushed that high by loss of control r.e. the diabetes, or his kidneys really running on empty... the next blood test will confirm.

In the meantime, in addition to getting a better handle on the testing, I need to find a low-phos food. Here I don't have many options in terms of branded food, so I may have to cook my own. I'm thinking of chicken breast in its own juices mashed with a little fish and ground-up renal food -- but will do some research and see what I can find.

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j
 
Hi John!
I am in Hongkong & understand your frustration in finding the "right' food for Charlie. How old is Charlie? Is his CRF a progressive due to ageing? Ive heard of friends in China using Chinese med to treat CFR with very good results. Let me check. My Rosy is 12 diabetic.
I believe since Charlie is dehydrated, it is best of you to give him wet, canned or home cooked Vs dry knibbles. Have you read the other CRF forum? Lots of info there too.
Will get back to you.

helen
 
Hello,

That would be great, thank you!

Charlie is about 9 years old... I expect the CRF has been around for a while, likely made worse by the elevated drinking due to less than perfectly controlled diabetes.

I've looked through the CRF forum too... also excellent. I've tried putting names of the low-phos foods recommended into taobao.com, but only seem to come up with dry food, which Charlie isn't accepting any more. I guess I don't mind importing if I can do it in bulk...
 
Hi tortie, sorry for the slow response. I don't really read Chinese, but the link was very helpful... Thank you so much. I've now managed to find a local supply of Azodyl and various wet foods.

Through testing I've found that the 3 units of insulin suggested by the vet was far too much... His bg was dropping dangerously low. Charlie is now stable again on 2 units... And has put on a bit of weight and is regaining his usual personality. It's been a tough few weeks... So many new medications and jabs to get my hea around, but it's all worthwhile to see his quality of life improve. He still looks upset after his subcutaneous fluids, but at least it's becoming routine now.

To be honest however, I haven't been able to home test every day. Sometimes all the jabs are just too much and he needs a rest. But we've begun to get used to giving ear pricks (and get usable size blood samples without multiple pricks!)

I've also made good progress with my app that records and charts blood glucose levels. I hope to be able to post more about it when it is ready.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It sounds like things are getting easier for you and Charlie. So glad you caught the low numbers and reduced the dose.

Have you seen this post? It has lots of good links and might help you with diet.


http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=71447

Please test before each shot. Especially with the food changes, you never know when he might throw a number too low to shoot or too low to shoot the dose you had planned on.

Yes, saw that -- thank you.

You're right, of course... it's hard but we will stick to it.
 
Hi J,

Nice to know that Charlie is getting a bit better. Hope you've found all the info on the caring.

helen
 
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