Hello! Introduction and a question.

Hello! My name is Ashley! A little bit about me: i'm a senior college student studying music therapy, I work part time as an activity aid at a nursing home and fall is my favorite season. Princess is my cat, she's a 15 year old multicolored fluffy cat who is sweet but can also be a bit moody, she got diagnosed either march or april of this year. I have been a part of the facebook page for a while but I just joined the website. She is currently on the dm vet diet (I had her on friskies pate for a while but she had a hypo and I decided better listen to the vet) she's on 1.75 units of vetsulin twice daily and I home test before every meal on the relion premier human meter. My question is: her bg this morning was 459 tonight it was 185, I was wondering with such a drop during the day if I should still give her her insulin. Thanks!

 

Tagging @JanetNJ about dosing.

 

And @Panic

 

Thank you!!

 

Hello Ashley!

Do you have any data you could share with us? A safe bet would be to skip if you don't have experience or hypo supplies shooting below 200.
I will say the switch from Friskies Pate to DM only increased her numbers, a hypo event means she's on too much insulin. Did you drop the dose after that hypo event?

459 to 185 could just be an indication of her clearing a bounce (let me know if you need a description on what that means!).

 

Thank you for the reply! what do you mean by data? and I think what happened that night was she only ate a bit of food and threw it up but I used to give her her insulin while she was eating but now I check her before each meal and wait to shoot until she eats at least half of her food and yes the vet dropped it from 2 to 1.5 but then she was high so he brought her to 1.75 and I need to check her nater again when I can. and yes could you describe a bounce? thank you so much!

 

Data being blood sugar readings! If you look at my signature below where it says "Panic's Spreadsheet" you can see how we test throughout the day - that's the data we use to help get kitties regulated.
Are you only testing before shooting each time? Only testing at pre-shot doesn't allow us to see the big picture of what the insulin is doing every day - and catches those hypos before they happen. We really support mid-cycle testing here, it's the only way to learn in a safe, non-hypo manner when it's time to change the dose.

Are you feeding 20-30 minutes before giving insulin? Vetsulin is a harsh insulin that requires food on board prior to administering. Most vets don't mention this. If you already know that, great!

You never want to judge a dose based on pre-shots - they are ALWAYS going to be higher, especially with Vetsulin. Vetsulin doesn't last in kitties the full 12 hours, it's more for dogs.

Bouncing 101:

Bouncing is a phenomenon that occurs when the body experiences (or at least thinks it does) hypoglycemia. Luckily the body uses bouncing as a defense mechanism against this where it attempts to compensate the low blood sugar by dumping excess glucose in an attempt to raise blood sugar back to “normal” numbers. Unfortunately, “normal” is a relative term according to the body. For a diabetic whose body has been untreated for so long that it considered very high numbers to be the new normal, lower numbers can often make the body overreact in attempt to save itself, even if it’s not in danger.

A cat who has been suffering from diabetes for some time may at the point of diagnosis have a new “normal” of 400. When insulin is introduced and brings it down, even to 200 (still diabetic levels), the body thinks it is in danger, dumps excess glucose, and thus the blood sugar skyrockets up to the 400-600s. After enough time has passed, the body will eventually realize that 200 isn’t such a bad number, and bouncing will happen less often. Note some cats are extremely bounce-prone and a switch to Lantus/Levemir is needed.

There are three main causes of bouncing: when blood sugar drops too low (hypoglycemia), drops lower than the body is used too, or by dropping too much too quickly. Typically if a cat drops more than 50% of their blood sugar a bounce is likely to happen, or if they drop 100 points within an hour.

While bouncing can be considered as a safety net in the instances of hypoglycemia, it can look very confusing on paper, and I daresay, the leading cause of overdosing by vets.

So when I say she might have been clearing a bounce (which can take up to three days), her inflated numbers from a bounce may have been going back down. That's just speculation though, we can't be sure without more data.

Ashley, we'd love to have you as a member here where we can help you and your gorgeous girl Princess! We could get you set up with a spreadsheet and a signature with her info if you like!

 

Hi Ashley!

I can’t talk about Vetsulin dosage but you any want to go back to friskies which is lower in carbs. Ideally you want your diabetic cat to eat food that has less than 10% in carbs. Take a look at this food chart and you’ll see what I mean

also, here’s a link to the Vetsulin forum. I suggest you read the first yellow sticky notes as it will go over some dosage guidelines for you

Vetsulin & Caninsulin

Welcome!!!

 

Thank you for all of the info!! Is mid cycle testing testing the nater? (about five and a half hours after shot) I do give her her food 20-30 minuets before shot and try to make sure she eats at least half of it. That is good to know what bouncing is!! And I would love to switch her back to her friskies pate but I know that you can't just switch you have to look at insulin dosing. I would love to get set up with a spreadsheet, I took a look at yours and i'm pretty confused what the +1 +2 +2 ect means, but I love the colors, do they mean like higher or lower than normal? Thanks again!!

 

Thank you so much!!

 

Hi Ashley! A hearty welcome to you and Princess.

Here are instructions for how to set up a spreadsheet for Princess:

FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

Understanding the Spreadsheet Grid

The info in the second link explains the +1, +2 and other FDMB spreadsheet lingo.

As you correctly deduced, the spreadsheet automatically colour codes the test results to show what range they fall in. This makes it easier to see at a glance if a kitty's in safe numbers. It makes it easier to interpret how a kitty is responding to insulin treatment and, as you gather more data, serves as a guide to dosing. It will also help members here to make better suggestions when you need some input. If you need help setting up the spreadsheet just holler.

Here's another helpful resource:

FDMB Glossary

In answer to one of your questions above:

* Cats on insulin receive 2 doses a day, 12 hours apart. Each 12-hour period is called a cycle.

* The nadir is the lowest blood glucose level in each cycle. It occurs when the insulin dose is having its greatest effect.

* Different insulins work in different ways and that affects expected nadir time. For Vetsulin, the nadir typically occurs between +3 hours and +5 hours after the injection was given.



Mogs
.

 

Also just so you know, we manage dose by the nadir number not the preshot numbers you get before giving insulin. So if the nadir is too high, we increase the dose and if the nadir is too low we decrease.

if you can set up your signature, it will be very helpful for members looking for info like what insulin and meter you’re using. Here’s the link for that Start Here

Make sure your signature is up-to-date.

• On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
  • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add any other text, such as
  • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Thank you!

 

WELCOME Ashley and Princess. You're off to a good start. You have landed in a safe place with lots of good people that want to help you make everything safe for Princess. Theres a wealth of information here with good people to help you navigate this disease.
Princess lives up to her name. Shes BEAUTIFUL!
Again welcome to the best darn site on this planet, to help you learn everything you need to know, about feline diabetes!
jeanne

 

The type of food doesn't cause a hypo. Too much insulin causes a hypo. If the DM vet diet is higher in carbs, it is going to take more insulin to get her to lower numbers. Just my thoughts.

 

Have to agree BUT BUT BUT Never make a food change without testing. Sudden removal of higher carb food can have significant changes to blood glucose numbers. Example:
When I took away Troubles dry food (stupidly all at once) his BG numbers dropped 100 points. Lucky for us his numbers were high enough that he didnt hypo.