Hello, I'm new here

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Oskarmom

Oskarmom

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Hi,
I'm Sylvia, my diabetic boy is Oskar. He was diagnosed about 2 weeks ago with steroid-induced diabetes, and is currently on glipizide and prescription food with the hope that he'll go into remission. He's about 4 or 5, best guess--he had been surrendered to my vet by the woman under whose house he'd been living, and she did not know his exact age. He was treated for chronic stomatitis with intensive steroid therapy earlier this year, but my vet is looking into other options for controlling flare-ups in light of this most recent development. As if that weren't enough, he is FIV+ as well. I also have 3 other cats who have no chronic health issues.
Sylvia and Oskar
 
glipizide doesn't work very well in cats. Insulin is much more effective.

Also -- you don't need expensive prescription food -- low carbohydrate canned or raw food is best -- grain free / gravy free.

it is possible that the diabetes is "transient" and he will go into remission when the steroids and stomatitis clear out. FIV+ though leaves him vulnerable to infections -- any infection can cause the blood sugar to go high again.

Learning to test blood sugar at home is your best bet for learning to control his blood sugar. We use a human glucometer (sipping kind) and prick the edge of the ear for a tiny blood sample --- at least twice per day before giving injections.

Most vets are not experts in caring for diabetic cats. In their 8 years of education - they typically spend about 4 hours learning how to treat diabetes in ALL species of animals. Also - the time that they were taught usually affects the treatment style -- not very many keep current on treatment methods. There are some good studies now showing the effectiveness of treating with Lantus (glargine) insulin and low carb food and high remission (diet control) rate.

Welcome to FDMB and good luck!
 
Hi Sylvia,
What a good mom for taking in this little guy. I'm sure that he is a lot more comfy than living under a house.

The reason that glipizide is less successful than other treatments is quite simple. It forces an already unhappy pancreas to work harder. Giving insulin, on the other hand, means that the pancreas doesn't have to work so hard and brings the blood sugar to a more normal level so that the pancreas can heal. If an alternate treatment can be found for the stomatitis, he may only need insulin a short time.

There is an amazing list of foods called "Janet and Binkys food list" that has listed most of the most common canned cat foods and their carb content as well as many of the other nutrients. Foods like Friskies and Fancy Feast are on the list, and are considerably less expensive than the prescription vet food. And usually lower carb. Most people aim for the 6 - 10 range, but it also depends on what the kitty will eat. Dry food is just plain not good for diabetics. Your other cats can all eat the same food as Oskar.

There are videos that show you how to test at home - also a great idea. Saves $$ and stres of going to the clinic, and provides accurate data.

Let me go and find th elink to the food list. I'll post when I find it.

Welcome.
 
Sylvia, if you are interested in hometesting Oskar's blood glucose....and I really hope you are....I can send you what we call "newbie kit' with everything in there you need to start testing immediatly...and a toy or two for Oskar!
We hope you will start using insulin rather than glipized, and our food list (look in the FAQ's) rather than the expensive and higher carb vet food. If you can't find the list just let me know...I'll link it for you.

Soooooo, if you would like a newbie kit. I happen to have one with 50 strips right now and a relion meter which is a very 'sweet' kit, please go to the link below my post.

Hope to see more of you here.
Lori
and Tom
 
Hi Sylvia, and, of course, you too, sweet Oskar,

Echoing Phoebe and Just-As-Appy about the glipizide. Insulin is much more pancreas-friendly.

Can you tell us where you live? No specifics are necessary. It's just that one of us might live close to you and teach you how to home test or just give you a hug. I'm in northern NJ if that helps.

I just wanted to tell you that I love your heart. Oskar is an incredibly lucky furry boy...




Welcome to the place you never wanted to be; but, will be blessed for having found. We're already blessed you found us...

Love and encouraging hugs for you both,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
Thanks everyone for the replies and welcomes! We're in Winston-Salem, N.C., for the person that asked.
I wondered about home-testing, I'm having no luck with the strips that go in the litterbox--multiple cats, multiple boxes. My vet gave me some tips, but I think it's hopeless; to her credit, she did realise that it would be a challenge and didn't insist that it's my only option. My only trouble with trying to stick his ears is that as an acclimated feral, he doesn't like to be restrained. He's already getting to be quite grumpy and uncooperative when taking his medicine; if I cause him actual pain, he'll be even worse. He's a very easy-going guy, and not a slasher or biter, but I can tell I'm testing his patience (no pun intended) as it is. I need about 4 hands!
As to his food, he gets a combo of dry and wet, mostly wet food. I'm so grateful for the list of foods, that's incredibly helpful!
I really appreciate everyone's support and advice, and I really hope that this a temporary condition for him.
Sylvia and Oskar
 
Sylvia, from our years of experience here, and literally thousands of diabetic cats world wide...the dry food has to go altogether if you want those number to come down.
And it is better for your entire furry household to never eat the dry again.
It is not their right diet, the carbs for one thing are too high even for non-diabetic cats.

As for the testing. Yes, some cat prove more difficult than others. But you know what? Eventually they all succumb. That's right, All Of Them! And they don't even mind it after a while. It becomes, dare I say it, a treat for them. You have to learn to make it a Happy time for them....and you can.
Every single one of us here do it...and not everyone had an easy start...but it is easy for everyone after that. After the start.
It is the only way to know, to shoot insulin, and to perhaps get your kitty regulated and off of the insulin.
There is no other way.
Lori
and tomtom
 
Hey, just to say you've gotten great advice so far -- if it seems radical, it's because that's what works best.

Diabetes is one of those illnesses that can come under control very nicely if you hit it hard and fast with aggressive treatment, early on. The longer you delay or take half-measures, the higher the risks and the less effective the right treatments will eventually be later on.

Yes there's pretty good evidence for all of this, but for now, I suggest you look over the suggestions above, ask questions about why, and implement them 100%, in the order suggested, then slowly cut back to less aggressive measures later if that turns out to be possible. Far more effective than working the other way for this particular disease.

Best of luck,
Steve
 
Oh Sylvia, I forgot to mention, and you may already know this....but Oskar will forever be a diabetic. When you said we hope this will be a temporary condition I was'nt sure if you understood this.
Now, Oskar can be a well regulated and diet controlled diabetic...but a diabetic he shall remain. This means he will never be able to regulate without insulin if he continues to eat any dry kibble. Yes, even the kind the vet offers.
In the hopes that Oskar can be a diet regulated diabetic (and his young age and steroid inducement are in his favor) the kibble has to go...not so much as a treat. If you stay here for any length of time you will come to see and recognize this with proof after proof after proof.
I will go ask one of our members who was until recently feeding dry and wet and her kitty required 9 units of insulin. One day she picked up the dry and her cat requires no more than 1 unit of insulin to achieve the same numbers.
Typical...not at all unusual, not something we don't see time and time again.
My own kitty went from 500's on dry and I changed his diet before my insulin arrived but I was daily testing. When on the proper diet (no kibble) his numbers dropped into the 300's.
Hope this helps.
 
Just-As-Appy said:
Here's a link to a short article about the action of glipizide. The last few sentences are pretty interesting.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they are pretty interesting... And, here they are:

"One of the most important cautions with the use of this medication is that by increasing the release of insulin, glipizide also increases the secretion of other proteins in the pancreas. It is generally abnormal protein deposition in the pancreas that caused the diabetes mellitus in the first place, thus the use of glipizide may lead to progression of pancreatic destruction. For this reason, we recommend glipizide as a last resort when insulin administration cannot be given or for a select few cats who are sensitive to insulin secretion."




Dear Sylvia, and, of course, you too, sweet Oskar,

I know someone here who used to live in the Triad area. I'll see if she's still there as she is feline diabetic experienced and incredibly kind. I hope she's still there because she's a gem. Also, I have two nephews, one in Durham and one in Charlotte, who are both fearless and love kidimals. My sister and brother-in-law live in the W-S area. That's potentially eight extra hands (my sister's allergic to cats so her hands don't count). Maybe not all at once; but, we'll see what we can do, okay? You never know...

It is most interesting dancing with a sugar cat... It has made me a better person.



Poke yourself with a lancet. I did. I wouldn't call it actual pain at all. No. It's just a prick. And, if you reward Oskar with treats, he might come around. Do wear jeans and treat yourself as well...

Mean while, I'll be working on those extra hands because I still love your heart...

Love and hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me all about treats and to wear jeans instead of jammies when testing her...
 
While others are helping you find a meter and more hands, you could begin the 'preconditioning' with Oskar. Get some low carb treats (there's a list for that as well!). I used oven-roasted and dried chicken from Petsmart. It is in the dog section. (check that it is purely chicken - no wheat or other additions) I break it into little bites. The plus is that there will be lots of 'dust' in the bottom of the bag, so if Oskar has a time when he doesn't want to eat, you can sprinkle the dust on his food - but I digress. Begin by choosing his testing area (may eventually be his shot area too, so keep that in mind). Sit him on your knee or counter or couch - whatever you choose. Fiddle with his ears. Give treat, put down. By the time you get the meter, he will come when you rattle the treat bag and you're on the way to an easy test.
 
Dear Just-As-Appy,

Just-As-Appy said:
I used oven-roasted and dried chicken from Petsmart. It is in the dog section. (check that it is purely chicken - no wheat or other additions) I break it into little bites. The plus is that there will be lots of 'dust' in the bottom of the bag, so if Oskar has a time when he doesn't want to eat, you can sprinkle the dust on his food - but I digress.
Click to expand...
I love your heart, too. It may or may not have something to do with finding cat treats in the dog section -- or, digressing... ;o)

Love and hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, forever dancing in my heart...
 
Just thought I'd post an update on Oskar. The glipizide is working; his bg is down, he's no longer losing weight (in fact he's gained a tiny bit), and he's looking and feeling much better. It's nice to have him back to his old self!
Sylvia and Oskar
 
Hi Sylvia,

The glipizide is probably working. The only problem is the side effect of it working! It isn't very helpful to the pancreas that is producing the insulin.

I know pills are easier than shots. Trust me, as a 35 year insulin dependent diabetic I do know. But, glip kind of gooses the pancreas so it produces insulin. It doesn't allow the pancreas to heal like giving insulin would. Please consider switching to a gentle long acting insulin like Lantus or Levemir.

Are you testing at home? That will allow Oskar to be safe while you treat his diabetes.

Claudia
 
I agree with Claudia...the glipizide is going to work for a little while but eventually it's going to burn out his pancreas, and then it's probable he'll need to be on insulin permanently. You to get him on insulin now, while he has a good chance (80%+) of going into diet controlled remission with a long acting insulin like Lantus, then to have him on insulin for the rest of his life later.

In the American Animal Hospital Association diabetes treatment guidelines, it clearly states that "Oral hypoglycemic drugs, combined with diet change, are only indicated if owner refuses insulin therapy or is considering euthanasia. These agents are not considered appropriate for long-term use." http://www.aahanet.org/resources/DiabetesMgtGuidelines.aspx

I think this is very important for you to know this, because you said earlier you hope the diabetes will be a "temporary condition." You will never get to remission by using glipizide, because it will make the condition far worse in the long term.
 
Dearest Sylvia, and, of course, you too, sweet Oskar,

Thank you so very much for your update! We tend to worry here when newbies come, and then go...

Oskarmom said:
Just thought I'd post an update on Oskar. The glipizide is working; his bg is down, he's no longer losing weight (in fact he's gained a tiny bit), and he's looking and feeling much better. It's nice to have him back to his old self!
Click to expand...
I'm so glad he's back to his old self!

I'm still working on getting extra hands to help you home test. Unfortunately, my formerly mentioned sugar mom gem now lives two states south of you. And, young nephews have busy schedules and don't always return emails in a timely manner (probably learned it from Aunt Deb who totally sucks at returning emails in a timely manner...)... But, I'm still working on those extra hands to help you help Oskar...






Here's the thing, dearest Sylvia. I so truly love your heart for giving Oskar an inside roof instead of living outside under a house. He is so young and we know is a steroid-induced diabetic. And, catching pee can be interesting... Okay, that's technically three things...

It's just that because Oskar is so young and is steroid-induced, there's every chance in the world he still has a functioning pancreas. It just needs a rest before taking care of business once again. Insulin could give Oskar's pancreas the rest it needs. He could be diet controlled.

By my calculations, Oskar's been on glipizide since around May 2nd. I honestly don't know how fast glipizide destroys a pancreas; but, destroy it, it eventually will. And, then, Oskar will be insulin-dependent the rest of his life.

It's such a tough call... You're seeing progress on glip. Oskar is back to his young self on glip. You truly wish this to be temporary. And, then, there's your wondrous heart who gave Oskar an inside roof...




Sigh... Sigh... Sigh...

Please continue to send us updates, okay?


Love and hopeful, encouraging hugs for you and your heart -- and Oskar,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me so very much...
 
I've been here about a month now and have received TONS of help!

I took the dry food away from Cedric a week ago (he was eating high protien, low carb Blue Wilderness, plus canned food) and within 2 days his numbers dropped. Now, I changed the canned food to high protien, low carb, and I must say that we moved into the townhouse I bought the week before he was diagnosed, so he is getting more extercise, so there are other factors involved. It may be tough for you, having other animals, but you might want to try it.

Cedric doesn't like getting tested, but I bought some grain fee high protein treats, and I put the bag in front of him while I try to heat up his ear and prick it for blood. It annoys him, but he co-operates for the most part.

Take Lori up on her offer if you can. Good luck and bless you for your love!
 
Hi!

I live near Raleigh and have a business office in Winston. I will send you a pm to offer help on the home testing.

Kim
 
Dearest Sylvia, and, of course, you too, sweet Oskar,

You have extra hands being extended to you. Please take Kim up on her precious offer...

You won't regret it, Sylvia. Trust me. Better yet, trust Kim.




And, please update us when your wondrous heart is able...

Much love and countless hopeful, encouraging hugs for you and yours,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, who taught me to be brave...
 
Hell Sylvia & Oskar.... I am a newbie as well and do not know a thing about the insulin vrs what you are doing, but I do know that this is the BEST place EVER!

I can only share what I do know ..... PLEASE TEST!!! I was shooting without testing and it dropped Bean to 26! and that was only 2 hours later!!!! She did not show signs of hypo...which I found out thru this site, is dangerous as heck! I was helped by many on here and thru the phone for 4+ hours to get her to the low 40's.

I WILL NEVER SHOOT AGAIN WITHOUT TESTING!!!! Boy, do I want to climb on top of my roof and shout that!!!

And, on a very very happy note, my sugar Bean is now NOT on insulin... I do have a spreadsheet that shows what I have been doing... I am not gonna have the OTJ party just yet, as we are NEW at no insulin.... I had cut back to testing 1 time a day, then every other day, and JUST 3 days ago, we skipped a couple of days....NOW THAT IS FUNNY cuz I was sooo scared to test, pricking those wonderful ears, knowing she would not like it....NOW, I am scared to skip a few days.... The folks that have helped me thru this will laugh at that!!!

I started with Bean on my lap, on her towl, loving, talking, rubbing and feeding her a couple of 100% tuna flakes 2-3 weeks before I tested... she only gets that treat at pokey poke time.... I would not say she LOVES it, but she is ok w/ it and I am a bit quicker now than I was before....thank gosh! so, she does not have to put up w/ mommy doing this for that long....we treat after and bond for a few more min., me telling her what her numbers are, etc. I think she likes that part the best... We forget about rubbing the ears and pet where she really likes to be petted, while offering up a few more of those pokey poke treats....

Welcome to this place of wonderful people!!!

Mommy to sugar Bean, Civvie Slappy and my new found heart patient Gumpy!!
 
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