Hello from Newbie

[Bandit and Beth]

My cat Bandit was just diagnosed last Friday so I am new to this and trying to get up to speed on everything. I have two male cats, Bandit and Taggart, from the same litter that are 7 years old. This whole ordeal started in the spring when I decided to change up their food. Bandit has always had dandruff and it shows a lot since he is a black/white tuxedo cat. I started doing some research and found that the dry Science Diet I had been feeding for years was full of carbs and fillers so I switched them over to Wellness dry food. Over the course of the next few months while I was mixing the old and new food together I noticed that they were picking out the new food and only eating their favorite Science Diet. During this time I also noticed that Bandit was getting thinner, which was good since he had always been my chubby cat, however he was getting thinner since he was hardly eating any of the Wellness food. I worried that he was getting too thin so I switched back to the science diet and hoped his weight would level off.

Even after the switch he still seemed thin and I worried that he wasn’t eating enough so in August I took him to the vet. At that time he weighed 10.8 lbs and the vet said he was a nice healthy weight, but recommended switching completely to fancy feast canned food. My boys were in heaven since they love fancy feast and only ever got it as a treat. I still left out a small bit of dry food to tide them over and keep them from getting too hungry if I got home from work late. Everything was going well until last week when I noticed that one of Bandit’s eyes was cloudy. This scared me so I took him to the vet the next day. At this time he was down another 0.4 lbs since August and they diagnosed his eye as anterior uveitis so they did a full round of blood tests to look for all the terrible diseases that this could be a symptom for. Thank god all these came back negative, but the vet said his sugar level was very high and tested in the 400’s. I took him in again to do the urine test and he tested positive for sugar in his urine. Honestly I was a little relieved that he only had diabetes and not something as terrible like FeLV, so now we are trying to learn how to live with this diagnosis and keep Bandit healthy.

My vet thinks Bandit has Type 1 diabetes since his diet was already 80% canned food and he is a healthy weight. He prescribed me 2 units of Lantus twice/day and I have cut out all the dry food so both cats are now 100% on fancy feast classic canned food. I have to say since starting on the insulin Bandit has been doing wonderful! He is much more playful, even jumping up the walls to catch the laser pointer and his dandruff has almost completely gone away. I didn’t realize how lethargic Bandit has been lately, but seeing him now I realize he hasn’t been this active in a long time.

Initially my vet didn’t say anything to me about needing to do home testing, but I will probably start once we get a handle on everything. For the last week Bandit was getting eye drops, an antibiotic and the shot so it’s been a bit overwhelming going from no medication to all this! We go back to the vet next week to check how he’s doing and see if anything needs adjusting.

I guess I just have two questions for everyone as I’m still trying to learn all the terminology:
1. Since Bandit tested positive for sugar in his urine I believe that means he had Ketones, but does that also mean he has Ketoacidosis?
2. If he truly does have Type 1 will he ever go into remission or will he be insulin dependent the rest of his life? Is there anything different I need to know about treating Type 1 vs. Type 2?

Thanks for listening and all your help!
Beth

 

[Larry and Kitties]

I would start at no more than one unit of insult twice daily especially since yo have changed to canned and are not home test.
1. Since Bandit tested positive for sugar in his urine I believe that means he had Ketones, but does that also mean he has Ketoacidosis?
No. All glucose in the urine means is the the blood glucose was above when glucose goes into the urine. It is between like 180 to 240
2. If he truly does have Type 1 will he ever go into remission or will he be insulin dependent the rest of his life? Is there anything different I need to know about treating Type 1 vs. Type 2?
You really can't tell or care if type I or II, Many cats do go into remission with low-carb canned food.

 

[Sandman]

I don't know that you can distinguish type 1 (inadequate insulin) from type 2 (receptors don't work with insulin) in a cat. Hyperglycemia in a cat can put the insulin secretion capabilities out of commission either temporarily (beta cells just go to sleep) or permanently (cells die & are replaced by amyloid). So type 2 usually becomes type 1.

I don't think it really matters anyway. What you need to do as quickly as possible is get your cat's blood sugar in a normal (60-120 on a human meter) range and keep it there. That's your only chance at remission. If your cat has been diabetic a short time, your odds of getting there quickly will be really very good. If diabetic a long time, it will take longer, but remission may still be possible. Even if you can't get your cat off insulin, your cat's health will be best with TR.

To do this, you need to get the cat on a low carb food (#1), and if, after a short period on such a diet you can't get normal sugars with diet alone, you'll need insulin. I absolutely would NOT administer insulin without home testing. I'd test frequently (I was doing it 4X per day) & shoot based on the results. I would not attempt tight regulation without a very low carb diet. It's impossible to control the BG spikes from a high carb diet with the sort of long acting insulins (PZI or lantus) used in a cat, and if you try you'll risk hypoglycemia. So, you really need to do all of this.

I know this is overwhelming. There are some good youtube videos on getting blood for home testing, and when I started, I searched for them & watched them.

You can find a good protocol for TR over on the yourdiabeticcat site. I don't care much for the people over there or the board, but the protocol is solid. It's based on PZI. I think most over here use lantus. You can get a cat off insulin with either, but don't mess with NPH or R insulin.

Theres some good stuff on this site concerning CR evals of human glucometers. Refer to those & buy a human glucometer. Don't mess with alpha-track, fructosamine tests, or glucose curves at the vet. Maybe you can get a fructosamine after you've got remission to just double verify that's what you have. I just did that. The rest is a waste of money. You can get some very good deals on test strips on amazon & I'd price there first. I got ripped off to the tune of $100 for 100 breeze2 test strips at my local Walgreens. My subsequent purchases were in the $40 range for 100 strips at amazon!

Hope all this helps, though it's a bit like taking a sip from a fire hose.

Good Luck.

 

[MommaOfMuse]

There is actually an entire forum on this board just for PZI users...But Lantus and PZI are very different insulins in the way they are dosed and work in a cat's body. There are two forums here for Lantus users Relaxed (not terribly busy) and Tight Regulation (very active) please feel free to stop by either one and the folks will be happy to help you figure out what is the best way to go about helping your furry buddy.

I'm not sure you can tell which type of diabetes a cat has, but yes even long term diabetics can and do go into remission with proper diet and insulin therapy, I have one girl right now that went over 10 months with no treatment whatsoever before I adopted her and she is already walking down the dosing scale and with any luck she will go into remission. But even if she doesn't she is still going to live a long and healthy life, she will just always get two tiny shots a day...no biggie.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

I am going to disagree with your vet on the type 1 comment. Your vet doesn't seem all that familiar with feline diabetes--I wonder if he's mostly treated dogs, where type 1 is common. Most cats have what is similar to type 2 diabetes in humans. Cats that are type 1 are pretty rare, and it presents itself at a young age. Your cat is formerly heavy, if I understand correctly, and he was formerly eating an extremely high carb food (science) diet, and he's middle aged. These are all classic risk factors of the more common type 2 diabetes in cats. I think it's very unlikely that he would be type 1. Just because he's currently eating a lower carb diet, and has lost down to a healthy weight does not mean that the damage wasn't already done before the change. My Bandit lost down to a healthy weight (he was formerly obese), and I switched his food from all dry Science diet to 80% grain free wellness canned/20% taste of the wild dry (grain free) about 6 or 7 months before he was diagnosed with diabetes, but he still developed it. Even lower carb dry food can continue to wreak havoc on many cats and cause pre-diabetic cats to progress to a clinical state.

The good news is that you're using a great insulin--there is an 84% remission rate in newly diagnosed cats when Lantus is used in combination with a low carb, canned diet (NO dry, not even Wellness or EVO), and the correct dosing protocol (via daily home testing). (DO NOT use the TR protocol from the yourdiabeticcat web site as someone else suggested--Lantus has an entirely different duration of action from bovine PZI and using that protocol could seriously harm your cat.)

One thing that concerns me is that your vet has already overdosed your cat and does not seem to be familiar . You don't mention how much he weighs now, but the starting dose for a 10 lb (4.5kg) cat is 1u of insulin, not 2u. The starting formula is .25u per kg of ideal weight. If the cat is underweight, it is .25u per kg of actual weight. I would strongly recommend dropping the dose down to 1u twice a day. Since it doesn't seem like your vet is familiar with how to dose lantus, I would print out the protocol I linked above, the American Animal Hospital Association Diabetes guidelines (see p. 218), and the article I've attached on Lantus and bring them to your vet. Unfortunately, many vets are not current with feline diabetes treatment and need to be educated right along side yourself through this process. For yourself, I would read through the Diabetes in Cats wikipedia page because it contains a lot of good, basic information to give you some base knowledge.

It's very important that you start home testing right away. Especially since you're shooting too much insulin currently, which can lead to a dangerous hypoglycemic incident. With Lantus, you want to test at least 3 times a day--once before each shot to make sure it's safe to give insulin, and then a test about halfway through either cycle to see how much the insulin is lowering his BG. The sooner you start doing this and you and Bandit get used to it, the better off you both will be. There is a window on remission with Lantus (meaning the longer you wait to start the proper treatment the less likely it is Bandit will get there), so you want to start as soon as possible. Once you do, Bandit's chances of remission are fantastic! My Bandit's been in remission for over 2 years, and he's healthier than most cats his age because of the change in diet.

 

[Zoni's Human]

Thank you to the oldies for lots of great information. I'm a newbie too, and still trying to get on top of my learning curve with Zoni's new diagnosis. His vet gave me some good pointers and websites to read on, but I still need more sources and input from others who have been through this situation. I didn't know where in the board to put my first post, so I just jumped in.

My cat Zoni is 11 years old, diagnosed when I took him to the vet for not feeling well. He had been moping around and developed bad breath so I thought he needed a dental cleaning. His blood glucose was 485. He'd been on Purina O.N.E. Salmon & Tuna for years, since it was the best food I could afford (I had thought!). My budget is very strained and I couldn't afford fancier foods, since it isn't just him, I have several cats and they all live together and share the food.

My vet very helpfully gave me a crash course in cat diabetes food info and a printout listing some canned foods with under 4% of calories from carbs. She prescribed him Humulin N insulin to help me manage my budget, she did tell me it isn't the best insulin but with careful management can be okay for some cats. So far it seems to be working and he is much more like his old self. He absolutely loves this new canned-food-twice-every-day thing, as do his cat siblings who share in the bounty.

They still free choice on dry but I am mixing a specific, gradually increasing ratio of a combination of Nature's Variety Chicken, Wellness Core and Indigo Moon into their Purina O.N.E. It is hard getting them to accept new dry foods so I want to get them used to a mixture so they'll still accept their food if I suddenly can't get a bag of food and have to switch. This way they'll still eat the dry if one of the kinds becomes unavailable and isn't in the mix. Also, with the canned food they are not as interested in the dry, so the expensive diabetic-safe dry is more affordable. They eat from hunger more than for fun now.

One of my other cats is Zoni's sister, who happens to be obese. Hopefully the food switch can prevent her from developing diabetes too, since she is a textbook case of a cat headed in that direction. I wish I had known about cat diabetes sooner. I'd heard of it, but never imagined my cat would ever have such a rare and random thing... I never realized how actually common it is until my vet told me it's been on the rise for decades now.

Donna

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Welcome, Donna!

It sounds like you're off to a good start, but there are a few things going will most likely impede regulation.

There are many ways to be frugal and cut costs with diabetes (home testing, commercial canned foods), but the one place that you don't want to cut costs is the insulin. Humulin N is largely ineffective for most cats, and has a far higher incidence of dangerous hypoglycemic episodes. The recommended insulins for cats are Lantus or Levemir (1st choice) or Prozinc (2nd choice). These insulins are a bit more expensive up front, but when you figure the long term costs, they will save you money in the long run. A pack of 5 Lantus pens (the pens are more economical because most of the insulin in the vial will go bad before you can use it all) will run you about $245 at Walmart ($220 if you use the coupon here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=36964). However, that insulin will last you at least 6 months, but more likely a year to 18 months. That means you're only paying roughly $12-$17 per month for a safe, effective insulin. A vial of Humulin N is about $60, and will last you about 45 days. That means you're paying $40 a month for a dangerous, ineffective insulin that will also likely lead to more regular vet and/or emergency vet bills.

The other place you save money with Lantus/Levemir is that they have an 84% remission rate in newly diabetic cats with proper dosing and diet. That means that the large majority of cats that are on these insulins end up no longer needing insulin in 6 months to a year. And I speak from personal experience that a cat in remission is MUCH cheaper to care for than a cat on insulin. Plus, your cat is the healthy and out of danger --it's a win/win situation. I would urge you to start saving up and change the insulin as soon as you are able. There is a window on remission, meaning the longer you wait to start the correct treatment (Lantus/Levemir, a low carb canned diet, and dose adjustments via daily hometesting), the less likely it is that you'll get there. The remission rate of Humulin N is less than 25%.

You don't mention whether you are hometesting, but if you aren't, this is where you can save a ton of money. If you home test, you do not need to pay for any curves done at the vet's office; you do them yourself. The Relion Confirm or micro from Walmart are two reliable, inexpensive meters that are very popular here because they have inexpensive test strips. Most importantly, home testing will also save the life of your cat--vet testing is unreliable because cats' blood sugar rises at the vet's office because of stress, and the testing is too infrequent to give an accurate picture of how the insulin is working. Humulin N is one of the biggest offenders in causing deadly hypoglycemic incidents cats--you definitely do not want to give that insulin blind. No human diabetic would ever dream of taking insulin without testing themselves first, and it's the exact same thing with cats.

Once you switch the insulin, you're going to want to get rid of the dry food completely. There is no dry food that is appropriate for a diabetic cat (especially the prescription dry)--the couple brands that are lower in carbs still tend to spike BG and interfere with regulation. It's best to get rid of ALL the dry (and if you have an obese cat that needs to lose weight you really need to stop free-feeding the cats anyway). HOWEVER, and this is very important, do NOT get rid of the dry until you are hometesting and lowering the insulin dose, and preferably after you've switched insulins. Once the dry is gone, most cats see a drop of 100-300 points in their blood sugar levels, and about of quarter of them go into spontaneous remission. So if you're not hometesting, and you remove the dry food and give the same amount of insulin, it could kill your cat. Because Humulin N is especially notorious for dangerous hypoglycemic incidents in cats (it causes steep drops and huge spikes in blood glucose, unlike Lantus or Levemir where you see gradual, steady curves), it would really be safest to remove the dry after you've switched insulins.

If you're feeding frequently enough (cats, and especially diabetic cats, should eat at least 4 times a day), then you don't need to leave food out all the time for the cats. In fact, leaving dry food out is something you really don't want to do with obese cats because they cannot moderate their own eating. What many of us do if we are not home to feed is freeze portions of canned food and leave them out, or put them in an auto feeder to release at the proper meal time if the cat (like mine) will sit and gnaw on the frozen food. You can feed ANY canned food that is less than 10% carbs--Special Kitty pates from Walmart or Grreat Choice pates from Petsmart are two low carb, canned foods that are very inexpensive if you get them in the big 13 oz cans.

Good luck, and don't be afraid to ask a ton of questions. There is a light at the end of the tunnel if you adopt the right treatment plan.

 

[Zoni's Human]

Thank you for such a wealth of good information! I really appreciate your time and thoughtful input. Especially thanks for the cost breakdown of the expensive insulin, it's a real eye-opener and I will change him over as soon as possible. I am sure your info is going to help countless others facing the same question, too. I am going to get a meter and start home testing as soon as possible. I want to do everything to get him insulin-free and back to perfect health asap.

I have been really anxious about the possibility of a hypo episode, so am too scared to only do mealtimes for him, which is why I'm still providing the dry food in addition to the canned meals. But I'm also thinking Zoni will snack mostly on the canned food left over from the last meal. He prefers the canned food so he isn't as interested in the dry and will eat whatever canned food is left before going back to the dry food. To keep the canned food available for snacking, I give them too much in the a.m. and p.m. so that there is always some left over when the next mealtime comes.

The low-carb dry foods I'm using are apparently less tasty than their old one. I noticed that all of them are less interested in it even before they were all getting the canned. The dry is about a 1/2 old, 1/2 combination of the new ones now, and the goal is to eliminate the old one from the mix completely.

I'm also thinking about the zero carb, all meat dry just because for some reason having a dry food around is like a security blanket for me. I'm not even sure why. Maybe because my schedule is not always easy and I've relied on it for so long when I couldn't be there to make them a meal at the same time each day. Maybe because of the idea that it is more shelf-stable sitting around in the bowl. I guess the canned food hasn't killed anyone who ate it after it sat around for several hours, but... I don't know, maybe it's just that I have to absorb a new idea more fully before my comfort zone can adapt, or something!

Anyway, your input has been so very helpful and enlightening. I appreciate it so much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and Zoni's too!

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

I'm also thinking about the zero carb, all meat dry just because for some reason having a dry food around is like a security blanket for me. I'm not even sure why. Maybe because my schedule is not always easy and I've relied on it for so long when I couldn't be there to make them a meal at the same time each day. Maybe because of the idea that it is more shelf-stable sitting around in the bowl. I guess the canned food hasn't killed anyone who ate it after it sat around for several hours, but... I don't know, maybe it's just that I have to absorb a new idea more fully before my comfort zone can adapt, or something!

Oh, I understand that security blanket. I still fed Bandit some lower carb dry food after I realized the carb situation with most dry was bad--but he still developed diabetes and that's when we got rid of it completely. There is more to dry food than just the carbs. Even the lower carb dry foods (And there are no dry foods that are ZERO carb--the two that advertise themselves as such are rounding down from their dry matter analysis--if you did this with canned foods, these would all be "zero" carb, too. Young again is around 6-8% carbs, and Wysong Epigen is 8-12% carbs) can keep a diabetic's blood glucose high and interfere with regulation/remission because of the way it's manufactured (cooking foods at very high temperatures increases the glycemic index, which is bad for regulating the blood glucose of diabetics). Bandit can eat a low glycemic canned food at 8% carbs, but EVO dry at 8% carbs will boost his blood sugar. Also, diabetes is not the only disease related to dry food. My other cat got kidney disease from dry food, because it leads to chronic dehydration in cats (cats never make up what they lose in dry food at the water dish because they evolved in the desert and do not have thirst drives like people or dogs). This also leads to Urinary Tract disease in many cats. You especially do not want to dehydrate a diabetic cat, because that is one of the ingredients for a deadly complication of diabetes called diabetic ketoacidosis.

I was working two jobs and going to grad school when Bandit was on insulin, so I understand hard schedules. You're lucky that your cat's prefer canned! Why not try freezing the food or using auto feeders, like many of us do here when we need to leave canned food out? It works just as well as dry.

 

[KPassa]

Maybe because of the idea that it is more shelf-stable sitting around in the bowl. I guess the canned food hasn't killed anyone who ate it after it sat around for several hours, but... I don't know, maybe it's just that I have to absorb a new idea more fully before my comfort zone can adapt, or something!

Just wanted to add that dry food is loaded with bacteria and fungus already. And it's worth mentioning that in the wild, cats will much on carcasses of meat for a couple of days at a time. The beauty of their evolution allows their bodies to be capable of handling old, raw meat. So, leaving out raw and/or canned cat food for a few hours a day is not going to make them sick. You will want to add water to it, of course, to keep it from drying out, but other than that, it's significantly better than leaving dry food out.

 

[Julia & Bandit (GA)]

Maybe because of the idea that it is more shelf-stable sitting around in the bowl. I guess the canned food hasn't killed anyone who ate it after it sat around for several hours, but... I don't know, maybe it's just that I have to absorb a new idea more fully before my comfort zone can adapt, or something!

Just wanted to add that dry food is loaded with bacteria and fungus already. And it's worth mentioning that in the wild, cats will much on carcasses of meat for a couple of days at a time. The beauty of their evolution allows their bodies to be capable of handling old, raw meat. So, leaving out raw and/or canned cat food for a few hours a day is not going to make them sick. You will want to add water to it, of course, to keep it from drying out, but other than that, it's significantly better than leaving dry food out.

This is a great point that I forgot to mention--if you add some water to keep it from drying out, canned food can be left out for up to 12 hours, and if you freeze it canned food can be left out for up to 24 hours. And those are the conservative estimates. And yes, you're far more at risk of bacteria/fungal contaminated dry food than you are canned food.

 

[Zoni's Human]

You guys are awesome, thank you for your detailed replies. It helps so much. I knew dry food is germy too but probably trusted it more due to decades of use. Logically, the heat-canned food is sterile until it comes out into the environment, so I guess I just feared it would spoil faster sitting out. duh. The freezing it idea is good, too. I'm trying that.

My schedule has been so erratic it has been hard to keep to the dosing schedule. I sometimes had to inject him again in a window of opportunity that is only 9 hours later and sometimes couldn't do it until it's been 14 hours. So the shorter acting Humulin N was practical for that. I was working 70-80 hours per week but not getting my paychecks and the company got behind on my pay then wouldn't pay me in a timely fashion, so I was working that schedule and having to try to make some cash too (cleaning house for friends) to make it until they would give me an installment on my back pay. SO that's why I haven't had time for posting. Now I am "laid off" since they were worried about the legal trouble from not paying me in a timely way. I got hired last week at a retail place but they are balking at putting me on the schedule since I don't want to give up my Sunday a.m., Wed. p.m. church job for them (they hire everyone part time but are known for firing everyone after a month or two and I can't give up the church for that). So I still need a job that actually pays me actual money.

So much happened in the last two months. My aunt got sick, stage 4 liver cancer and so when I got laid off I tried to spend more time helping her and my mom. Since she passed away a couple of weeks ago and I'm down to my little church nursery job I do have more time for changing over to Lantus or Levemir, but now I'm afraid that my next job will require a ridiculous schedule too, making tight regulation impossible and maybe either of those a bad idea due to schedule irregularity. Right now though I've been able to dose within a one hour window of the every 12 hours mark. I am hoping to be able to get him into remission at some point by switching insulin, but not sure with whatever my next job is, if I could even keep to the relaxed type unless I could do once per day only, since I am always home at 6 a.m. for sure.

Zoni now has mostly canned pate food but I still leave them about 1 cup of dry which is now down to almost straight Indigo Moon with a tiny bit of the other ones mixed in. I didn't buy more Instinct because not sure where my next real paycheck will come from. I spread the dry out on the bottom of a wide bowl so it's annoying to eat it, and rotate the canned flavors to keep them interested.

But today it's only canned NO dry because I dropped his bottle of Humulin N this morning and broke it, and afraid if I can't get more insulin soon his BG will go up again and I can't afford the vet right now. It was only half full but I didn't expect to have to figure out how to pay for a new bottle all of a sudden. On the other hand, is this the time to switch, maybe God is helping me decide? I'm going to keep testing and feeding only canned and maybe sardines, tuna, chicken, straight meat, and keep close watch on the numbers in case it goes really high. At least I have chickens and turkeys in the deep freezer...

 

[KPassa]

Welcome back! :YMHUG: Sorry you've been going through so much. :sad:

I would consider the breaking of the Humulin bottle as fortuitous. ;-) Instead of replacing it, perhaps PZI insulin might be a better choice? It is much more forgiving when you can't stick to a 12-hour schedule for shot times than the depot-style insulins (Lantus and Levemir). PZI works much better on cats than Humulin and there's a fairly active PZI board here with people who can help.

Also, not sure if you've seen this commercial cat food list (look for anything under 10% carbs), but that might help save on cost. I know a lot of members (including myself) feed Friskies Pates and Fancy Feast Classics, which are two of the cheapest.

 

[Zoni's Human]

Thanks for your swift reply, it is comforting in a time of stress that I have your support, and someone besides me really cares how Zoni is doing. I really appreciate it.

My schedule today allowed me to test him 3 times, though I didn't test before his usual 7:30 a.m. shot of 2 units (I know that isn't the best thing but it's been our routine). He acted normal, ate like usual, etc. Then at 12:45 p.m. his BG was 37 (!) a bit lower than I expected... At 5:00 p.m. it was 74, then just now when I got home, at 9:45 p.m. it was 72. That is lower than I expected but he hasn't been tested in quite a while (I haven't been testing with all of what was going on, just trying to keep consistent with timing and feeding since the layoff. But quite a surprise when it used to be in the 400's. Do you think it could be a fluke? I gave them plain tuna today and no dry at all? Yesterday he had some boiled ham, but I don't think it would make that much difference. I am going to keep testing every few hours and keep an eye on him.

I think you may be right, maybe it is just a fortuitous accident with his insulin and it's time to switch him.

I don't have the resources right now to do a visit with a new vet (no money for exam fees, glucose curves, etc). I'm going to sell some things to get some funds. His old one moved away, so we are currently vetless. If his numbers spike up high I am going to have to get him some more insulin fast, which might mean having to get Humulin N over the counter if I can't find a vet to sell me the PZI without the whole exam routine. But I'm worried that I can't really afford it right now. I'm fantasizing trying french beans and holy basil on him instead, but don't know if that works to lower cat blood sugar. Poor Zoni.

 

[Zoni's Human]

I mean really, really thank you. You are fantastic to help and give such good advice. Thank you just isn't enough but my brain isn't working well enough to convey the true thankfulness I feel. Your words are there to help me again and again when I forget something and need to read it again. Each time I appreciate your help all over again. Thank you so very much, truly.

 

[KPassa]

You're very welcome. And one day soon, you'll be on this side helping out other newbies.

I am cautiously optimistic right now that I might be able to manage him for a while without more insulin, because his BG readings are amazingly normal right now. Last night at midnight it was 94 (the healthy cats tend to test in the 50-60 range then) but this morning at 7:45 it was 71, then he ate and 45 minutes later at 8:30 it was only 72... I have no idea if this is a normal thing that can happen in the course of FD ups and downs, he's never missed a shot in the few months since his diagnosis, so I don't have any experience to go on.

I have this perhaps silly hope and belief that maybe he has just cured himself suddenly and an angel pushed the bottle out of my hand.. I know it is unlikely and it's probably just a fluke cause by a lot more plain tuna and meat, or just random, and I wouldn't want to raise false hopes in a newbie that led them to make a wrong choice for their cat, which is why I'm PMing you instead of putting it on the thread.

Do you think it's okay for me to wait another day or two and keep testing to check his BG, instead of trying to get the PZI right away?
Do you have any experience with a sugar cat suddenly just not needing their insulin anymore? instead of tapering down. Could it be the case for Zoni to just be in remission now?

From the numbers you're seeing, it sounds like he might be ready for an OTJ trial run! party_cat

Remission does happen fairly frequently in newly diagnosed cats sometimes with a diet change to wet, low carb food and sometimes with diet change and the help of a little insulin. They're still diabetic, but they're considered "diet-controlled." I haven't personally experienced remission (it might not even be possible with my kitty), but I believe it's recommended to continue testing frequently for the first 14 days. As long as he stays within "normal" ranges (I believe it's 40-130 BG? Hopefully someone else will come along to confirm), then he's Off The Juice! After that, I believe most people continue testing their cats a couple of times a week (month?) to make sure they're not running higher and don't need insulin again. Perhaps you might want to start a new post asking about remission?

At this moment, if his numbers continue on as nicely as they have been, there's no reason just yet to find a new vet and get a new insulin prescription. Best chance of keeping him in remission is to never feed Zoni dry food again. Keep in mind that if Zoni isn't able to maintain these good numbers on his own, he may need insulin again to help him out. If he does need to go back on insulin, you do not need to spend money at the vet's for them to do any costly curves; you can do those yourself at home for the price of the test strips. There are quite a few other ways to save money and I'm sure others might have some better advice, but a couple of cost-cutting methods are finding a glucometer that uses less expensive test strips (for example, the ReliOn Prime has 50 strips for $9) and finding good prices on low carb, wet food. Some of the favorites in terms of costs are Friskies, Wellness, Merricks, and Fancy Feast brands.

:RAHCAT Come on, Zoni! Stay OTJ for your Momma! :RAHCAT