Heart is breaking

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Wendy D

Wendy D

Member Since 2018
Hi all. I posted on here a few weeks ago when my baby, Oliver, was diagnosed with diabetes and kidney failure. I was scared of giving him the shots, as I 'd never had a special needs cat, dog, or anything before, but I received a lot of encouragement from all of you. Oliver was doing good until this past week. I noticed he was walking funny--back legs wobbling--and he would only take a few steps before sitting down. I called the vet and they said bring him in right then. The vet came in and said she could tell he was dehydrated just by looking at him. I told her I was having a dickens of a time trying to get the pick line in to give him the subQ. It had gotten to the point, he'd see the bag and he'd go hide. When I did manage to get it in, he'd jerk, knock the line loose, then take off. She asked if I was comfortable giving him the subQ? If not, I could bring him up there daily to have the techs do it. Apparently she didn't like it when I told her no, I wasn't comfortable doing it, even though I was trying to get as much in him as I could daily. He freaks out so badly that I don't know if I'm doing something wrong and hurting him or what. I would gladly bring him up there every day to get him/keep him hydrated via subQ. She took him from me, said she was going to go test his blood levels. She told me that I had to keep him hydrated and because I failed to do that, he is now dying so I can either do it at home or bring him back when he gets bad enough and have him put down. (Talk about a horrible guilt trip!) She said it would be far too expensive for me to bring him up there daily to have them do it. (Uhhh....I make plenty per year and it is, after all, my money and my choice on how to spend....) This was followed by a look and if looks could kill.....all I can say is WOW! She took him out, tested his values, came back in with him and said his glucose had dropped into the 400s, but his BUN was too high and he's dying of kidney failure. (Again with the look). She told me to take him home, keep him comfortable, spend time with him, then bring him back when "it was time". (Can you say oh hell no!) She also told me to increase his Lantus from 4ml 2x/day to 5ml 2x/day. I guess I don't understand her attitude. She tells me I can bring him up there daily, then decides it would be too expensive so I should just take him home to die. Has anyone else experienced this kind of behavior from their vet? Guess it's a good thing she doesn't know my dad died of cancer a few years ago. She'd probably blame me for letting the nurses do his chemo instead of doing it myself.
 
Wendy, I’m so sorry you’re having trouble. Is Oliver eating? You can add some water to his food to help a little. HERES a video on giving subQ fluids. Maybe there’s something in there to help you. Often if you can get a kitty hydrated the kidney levels may come down. I think if I were you I’d try to find another vet. At the very least they could take the time to work with you and get you more comfortable in giving fluids yourself instead of berating you. And they should definitely help by giving the fluids for you, at least in the short term! Are you home testing Oliver’s BG’s? That can help you get the diabetes under control and protect his kidneys.
 
Sharon14 said:
Wendy, I’m so sorry you’re having trouble. Is Oliver eating? You can add some water to his food to help a little. HERES a video on giving subQ fluids. Maybe there’s something in there to help you. Often if you can get a kitty hydrated the kidney levels may come down. I think if I were you I’d try to find another vet. At the very least they could take the time to work with you and get you more comfortable in giving fluids yourself instead of berating you. And they should definitely help by giving the fluids for you, at least in the short term! Are you home testing Oliver’s BG’s? That can help you get the diabetes under control and protect his kidneys.
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He is eating--mainly the wet food. He stopped eating the D/M and K/D moist that the vet gave so I started him back on Friskies Pate. He will eat the dry food but only if I put a little chicken broth on it (just enough to moisten). I don't home test and rely on the vet to do this. If I'm having probs with the subQ pick line, I can't imagine trying to draw blood from him! One of us would probably bleed out. I give him as much subQ as he will sit still for and tolerate--usually 1-2 ml/day. The vet said when he gets the subQ, you can see a big pocket in his tummy area. The first time I did it at the vet's office (the day he came home after the initial diagnoses and hospitalization), he had the tummy pouch. Now he gets the pouch around his shoulder blade area and I'm thinking maybe I'm doing something wrong. I had a really good vet that all my pets loved. Unfortunately she closed her practice and moved to NC to be with her military husband whom she hadn't lived with in 7 years. I miss her sooo much as she was the best vet I'd ever had. Now I am kind of stuck with this one unless I want to drive awhile and my work schedule with the post office won't allow that.
 
Try to get a low carb, low phosphorus food for Oliver. Friskies is fairly high in phos and that’s bad for kidneys. THIS is one I use. Dry isn’t as good because it’s dry and you need moisture to help flush the kidneys. Watch the video I posted it may help you see what, if anything, you’re doing wrong. When I’ve given subQ’s I’ve given them in the scruff and there was a balloon of fluids in the scruff/shoulder area. Seemed to work fine. As far as testing, it’s really not that bad and can help you get Oliver regulated. We’ll be happy to help you learn how when you’re ready. Please do consider it.
 
Wendy D said:
. I noticed he was walking funny--back legs wobbling--and he would only take a few steps before sitting down
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Your vet sounds like a tool. Is there another vet at the clinic you could see?
Was he walking funny like he was weak or funny like not on his toes but more on his hocks? If it is the latter one, that sounds like neuropathy.
Here is a link on neuropathy. My cat Diamond has it,


http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-weak-back-legs.178252/
 
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I am so sorry your kitty isn't feeling well; and for the stress.

If another vet (or vet clinic) is available I would seek a different opinion. My first vet seemed great at first, but looking at my kitty's glucose he said no when I asked point blank about diabetes and concluded it was cancer and I should put her down immediately. That was in January. It took another month for her to get over her pancreatitis flare, and then I finally went to a different vet clinic and they diagnosed the diabetes with the first bloodwork. I hate to think we could have started a month earlier.

Your vet sounds like a jerk; she should know this is stressful for both you and your kitty and that you are trying.
 
Wendy D said:
If I'm having probs with the subQ pick line, I can't imagine trying to draw blood from him!
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There's no blood draw involved in testing BG at home, only a quick, tiny pin prick to the edge of the kitty's ear. It's so much easier than you might be thinking it is and is the key to getting Oliver's BG under control. Please consider it and we're here to help.

Meanwhile, have a look at these resources: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
 
Wendy D said:
She said it would be far too expensive for me to bring him up there daily to have them do it. (Uhhh....I make plenty per year and it is, after all, my money and my choice on how to spend....)
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Hi,
some of our members hire a vet tech to administer insulin,to test and feed their cats when they go on vacation.
Can you find an agency/ a firm in your area that provides such service?
Nephropathy - if that's what he's having can be greatly improved with tight BG control and some supplements .
 
I think you need a new vet, even if scheduling and driving is problematic. Your current vet sounds heartless and unhelpful. The only thing I'll add to the great information others have already given you is that sometimes that hind-leg weakness/wobbliness can be because of a potassium deficiency, common in kitties with FD and easily diagnosed with bloodwork.
 
Sharon14 said:
Try to get a low carb, low phosphorus food for Oliver. Friskies is fairly high in phos and that’s bad for kidneys. THIS is one I use. Dry isn’t as good because it’s dry and you need moisture to help flush the kidneys. Watch the video I posted it may help you see what, if anything, you’re doing wrong. When I’ve given subQ’s I’ve given them in the scruff and there was a balloon of fluids in the scruff/shoulder area. Seemed to work fine. As far as testing, it’s really not that bad and can help you get Oliver regulated. We’ll be happy to help you learn how when you’re ready. Please do consider it.
Click to expand...
I watched the video yesterday and it *seems* I'm doing it right. He just doesn't like it. Yesterday wasn't super bad and he actually let me get the recommended amount of subQ in him. I would love to know how to test him at home. I've seen one video where the person who posted said to make sure you use a cotton ball or something when pricking the ear to keep from pricking your own finger. What is the best type of unit to use?
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
Hi,
some of our members hire a vet tech to administer insulin,to test and feed their cats when they go on vacation.
Can you find an agency/ a firm in your area that provides such service?
Nephropathy - if that's what he's having can be greatly improved with tight BG control and some supplements .
Click to expand...
The vet gave me fortiflora to sprinkle on his wet food. Is that one of the supplements? I'm not sure, other than the vet's boarding clinic, if there are techs for hire here.
 
Squalliesmom said:
I think you need a new vet, even if scheduling and driving is problematic. Your current vet sounds heartless and unhelpful. The only thing I'll add to the great information others have already given you is that sometimes that hind-leg weakness/wobbliness can be because of a potassium deficiency, common in kitties with FD and easily diagnosed with bloodwork.
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I just came back to work after an 8 month sick leave. (Arthritis and the postal service go hand in hand!) I am on a new shift for three months so the postmaster can *see* if I've recovered enough to return to my normal shift--2am to 11am. Once I'm back to normal, it will be easier to drive elsewhere. Of course the vet didn't mention anything about his potassium levels. I thought it was great that his BG dropped down 200 points (he's a little over 400 now--was up over 600), but she wouldn't even give me the smallest of victories. She said his BUN was so high, it maxed out her chart. Last time she gave me a print out of his lab results, but not this time so I don't know what his numbers were.
 
krazy4kritters said:
Your vet sounds like a tool. Is there another vet at the clinic you could see?
Was he walking funny like he was weak or funny like not on his toes but more on his hocks? If it is the latter one, that sounds like neuropathy.
Here is a link on neuropathy. My cat Diamond has it,


http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-weak-back-legs.178252/
Click to expand...
He is walking all on his hocks and only takes a few steps before he sits or lays down. When I watch him walk from behind, he's really wobbly. I feel so bad for him and told my boyfriend I'm going to build him a rolling cart so he can get around. :-)
 
Wendy D said:
I watched the video yesterday and it *seems* I'm doing it right. He just doesn't like it. Yesterday wasn't super bad and he actually let me get the recommended amount of subQ in him. I would love to know how to test him at home. I've seen one video where the person who posted said to make sure you use a cotton ball or something when pricking the ear to keep from pricking your own finger. What is the best type of unit to use?
Click to expand...
I use a couple sheets of toilet paper actually. I hold it behind his ear. Prick then fold the paper over his ear to hold for a second or two. It's quick and easy to test after a couple tries.
 
Wendy D said:
He is walking all on his hocks and only takes a few steps before he sits or lays down. When I watch him walk from behind, he's really wobbly. I feel so bad for him and told my boyfriend I'm going to build him a rolling cart so he can get around. :)
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That sounds very like neuropathy. B12 fixes this very quickly. In the US they call it Zobaline but in Canada I just got ordinary b12 tablets and gave one a day. Few weeks later he was walking normally. Vet had said he was having brain issues. Silly ignorant vet.
 
You guys all rock. You're all so knowledgeable and I admire and appreciate your help as I paddle around out here in unfamiliar waters. I'm learning day to day and it's schooling I wish I didn't have to have!
 
Juliet said:
That sounds very like neuropathy. B12 fixes this very quickly. In the US they call it Zobaline but in Canada I just got ordinary b12 tablets and gave one a day. Few weeks later he was walking normally. Vet had said he was having brain issues. Silly ignorant vet.
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I realize vets are human and make mistakes, but some of them are real doozies!!
 
Wendy D said:
I realize vets are human and make mistakes, but some of them are real doozies!!
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My vet prescribed steroids then asked me why he was on steroids! The steroids lost him his remission and vet didn't even register that he was diabetic despite having the records from previous vet transferred. My vet wanted increases in whole units which I learned here is a bad idea. Also gave me the full guilt trip for not treating him the way they wanted.
 
Most vets have no special training in diabetes! I found a new vet that knows more than most & is impressed with what I’ve learned here! Hang in there & know you can ask anything! Everyone is here to help.
 
Wendy D said:
I watched the video yesterday and it *seems* I'm doing it right. He just doesn't like it. Yesterday wasn't super bad and he actually let me get the recommended amount of subQ in him. I would love to know how to test him at home. I've seen one video where the person who posted said to make sure you use a cotton ball or something when pricking the ear to keep from pricking your own finger. What is the best type of unit to use?
Click to expand...

What size needle are you using for the subQ’s? I’ve read that some vets give too large a needle. The video recommends 20-21 gauge. For testing, Have you checked the thread Kris linked above? I don’t use anything behind the ear, but you can use a cotton ball, cosmetic pads or, as Juliet said, tissue. You need a human meter that uses the smallest amount of blood (.03 microliters) such as the Relion Micro or Confirm from Walmart, 26 gauge lancets, and a box of test strips. Other things you may want are neosporin ointment with pain relief, and a homemade rice sock, which is a baby sock with rice in it that you warm in the microwave to help warm his ear before you poke.
 
1. Ask the vets office to email you a copy of all labs and post them here... And then take them to a new vet.

2. Get a new vet. This one has no compassion or beside manner.

3. Go on amazon and buy zobaline b12 methylcobalamin supplements to help the neuropathy.

4. Watch my video showing how I test my cat CC at home.

Testing gives you the best chance at getting your cat into healthy numbers which will also help heal his neuropathy.

5. Get turemo thin walled sub q needles. Much more comfortable then vet harpoon. Give a special snack our catnip so your cat looks forWard to fluids. Facebook has a great group for ckd cats called Cats with Chronic Renal Failure. Very helpful people.

6. Do you have a meter for bg testing? Do you want a shopping list?

7. You need a low phosphorus low carb WET food. Add extra water to it. I fed weruva bff cans when I had a cat with ckd and another one with diabetes. If that's not possible then you could add a phosphorous binder (Aluminum hydroxide) to his regular Friskies. You can get that in amazon or thrivingpets.com
 
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Wendy D said:
He is walking all on his hocks and only takes a few steps before he sits or lays down. When I watch him walk from behind, he's really wobbly. I feel so bad for him and told my boyfriend I'm going to build him a rolling cart so he can get around. :)
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This is a planter gait , otherwise known as neuropathy. I know this as my old Tyler had a huge problem with this for quite a while. Tyler also has stage two CKD.

I don't know where you are but you should give your pusscat a B12 supplement. Zobaline is the one used for the USA/Canada I believe. Just take a care with the dose because of his CKD.

Tyler now has the B12 shots which I give. This has also helped improve his gait.

Regulating the diabetes of course helps as that will help the cat retain the nutrients from his/her food and that in turn can rebuild muscle mass.

Where is @JeffJ ? He's the goto man for wobbly legs.
 
Sharon14 said:
What size needle are you using for the subQ’s? I’ve read that some vets give too large a needle. The video recommends 20-21 gauge. For testing, Have you checked the thread Kris linked above? I don’t use anything behind the ear, but you can use a cotton ball, cosmetic pads or, as Juliet said, tissue. You need a human meter that uses the smallest amount of blood (.03 microliters) such as the Relion Micro or Confirm from Walmart, 26 gauge lancets, and a box of test strips. Other things you may want are neosporin ointment with pain relief, and a homemade rice sock, which is a baby sock with rice in it that you warm in the microwave to help warm his ear before you poke.
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The needles for subQ are 18 gauge.
 
JanetNJ said:
1. Ask the vets office to email you a copy of all labs and post them here... And then take them to a new vet.

2. Get a new vet. This one has no compassion or beside manner.

3. Go on amazon and buy zobaline b12 methylcobalamin supplements to help the neuropathy.

4. Watch my video showing how I test my cat CC at home.

Testing gives you the best chance at getting your cat into healthy numbers which will also help heal his neuropathy.

5. Get turemo thin walled sub q needles. Much more comfortable then vet harpoon. Give a special snack our catnip so your cat looks forWard to fluids. Facebook has a great group for ckd cats called Cats with Chronic Renal Failure. Very helpful people.

6. Do you have a meter for bg testing? Do you want a shopping list?

7. You need a low phosphorus low carb WET food. Add extra water to it. I fed weruva bff cans when I had a cat with ckd and another one with diabetes. If that's not possible then you could add a phosphorous binder (Aluminum hydroxide) to his regular Friskies. You can get that in amazon or thrivingpets.com
Click to expand...
I don't have a meter, but yes, I could use a shopping list. I put fortaflora on his wet food. He seems to like the HSD K/D formula wet food, but doesn't like the HSD D/M.
 
Wendy D said:
I don't have a meter, but yes, I could use a shopping list. I put fortaflora on his wet food. He seems to like the HSD K/D formula wet food, but doesn't like the HSD D/M.
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The hills k/d is 27% carb... No good for a diabetic. Here's the food list. Pick something under 10 percent carb and 250 or less phosphorus. http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Shopping list if you have a Walmart nearby

1. Relion micro or confirm meter or some other brand that requires a 0.3 size sample. Your other option is a pet specific meter called Alphatrak which is available on amazon. The Alphatrak test strips are expensive but we have found the insulinx strips are the same and can be bought 100/$10 on eBay.

2. Box of 100 extra test strips

3. Box of 100 26 or 28 gauge lancets

4. Cotton cosmetic rounds to go behind the ear

5. Neosporin ointment with pain relief

6. A treat for you
 
PussCatPrince said:
This is a planter gait , otherwise known as neuropathy. I know this as my old Tyler had a huge problem with this for quite a while. Tyler also has stage two CKD.

I don't know where you are but you should give your pusscat a B12 supplement. Zobaline is the one used for the USA/Canada I believe. Just take a care with the dose because of his CKD.

Tyler now has the B12 shots which I give. This has also helped improve his gait.

Regulating the diabetes of course helps as that will help the cat retain the nutrients from his/her food and that in turn can rebuild muscle mass.

Where is @JeffJ ? He's the goto man for wobbly legs.
Click to expand...
I am in Missouri (USA)
 
Wendy D said:
Hi all. I posted on here a few weeks ago when my baby, Oliver, was diagnosed with diabetes and kidney failure. I was scared of giving him the shots, as I 'd never had a special needs cat, dog, or anything before, but I received a lot of encouragement from all of you. Oliver was doing good until this past week. I noticed he was walking funny--back legs wobbling--and he would only take a few steps before sitting down. I called the vet and they said bring him in right then. The vet came in and said she could tell he was dehydrated just by looking at him. I told her I was having a dickens of a time trying to get the pick line in to give him the subQ. It had gotten to the point, he'd see the bag and he'd go hide. When I did manage to get it in, he'd jerk, knock the line loose, then take off. She asked if I was comfortable giving him the subQ? If not, I could bring him up there daily to have the techs do it. Apparently she didn't like it when I told her no, I wasn't comfortable doing it, even though I was trying to get as much in him as I could daily. He freaks out so badly that I don't know if I'm doing something wrong and hurting him or what. I would gladly bring him up there every day to get him/keep him hydrated via subQ. She took him from me, said she was going to go test his blood levels. She told me that I had to keep him hydrated and because I failed to do that, he is now dying so I can either do it at home or bring him back when he gets bad enough and have him put down. (Talk about a horrible guilt trip!) She said it would be far too expensive for me to bring him up there daily to have them do it. (Uhhh....I make plenty per year and it is, after all, my money and my choice on how to spend....) This was followed by a look and if looks could kill.....all I can say is WOW! She took him out, tested his values, came back in with him and said his glucose had dropped into the 400s, but his BUN was too high and he's dying of kidney failure. (Again with the look). She told me to take him home, keep him comfortable, spend time with him, then bring him back when "it was time". (Can you say oh hell no!) She also told me to increase his Lantus from 4ml 2x/day to 5ml 2x/day. I guess I don't understand her attitude. She tells me I can bring him up there daily, then decides it would be too expensive so I should just take him home to die. Has anyone else experienced this kind of behavior from their vet? Guess it's a good thing she doesn't know my dad died of cancer a few years ago. She'd probably blame me for letting the nurses do his chemo instead of doing it myself.
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There seems to be some kind of "guilting" trend with vets...also a trend to animal destruction. I'm so sorry!
 
Sharon14 said:
Yes 18 gauge are big. See if you can get a smaller needle, 20 gauge. Might make it easier on Oliver
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I used to order Terumo Ultra Thin Wall needles from ThrivingPets to give my kidney kitty fluids - they are excellent quality and like everyone else has already said, go with a higher gauge; they are thinner and very sharp, so he won't feel the poke as much. The needle should slide in like butter. Don't go with too high a gauge though, or it will take longer for the fluids to flow (I think that's why vets like the lower gauge - aka "kitty harpoon" needles).
http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/terumo-needles-box-of-100.html
 
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