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MommaOfMuse

MommaOfMuse

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Okay I need a fresh set of eyes....or possibly another brain....I've been busy this morning trying to get everything I will need when Muse comes home. Stocked up on Fancy Feast canned food, got flavors that I know she will eat, Ocean Whitefish & Tuna, Savory Salmon Feast and Cod, Sole, and Shrimp Feast. Since I already give my own vaccinations we already have a good stock of needles and syringes. But got a box of lancets. Just waiting on the vet to tell us what she is going to prescribe for her,and will pick that up when she actually comes home. Muse loves milk, can I continue to give her it with her food? (water is available at all times). If so what is the best for her...Skim, 1%, 2%, of good old fashioned whole milk? She needs to put on weight badly. I'm sort of in a panic since my hubby is a musician and will be gone all weekend which means if the vet lets her come home today I'm gonna be doing this all on my own for a few days. I KNOW I can handle this just finding it a little scary at the moment and just want to make sure I haven't missed anything. Plus since she is sooooo thin I even crocheted her a new blanket to help her stay nice and warm even with the AC running. Have I missed anything I'm gonna need when she comes home? Also seeing a lot about giving her raw meat, but I know she won't eat it raw, can I say brown ground turkey or beef for her? We only eat 85% lean or better and we actually perfer ground turkey or grond chicken to hamburger anyway so there is plenty in the freezer. Oh yeah, since I bake alot we already have a good supply of pancake syrup, honey and KARO syrup. Bless my mom she just called to tell me she got me a little spring loaded thingy for the lancets, so I can be as quick as possible in drawing blood. At least Lady Muse is a very calm and willing kitty, you can do anything with her and she never complains.
 
LOL :)

Note that it isn't a great idea to feed fish as the sole source of protein, but for now, you need her to eat so if that's what you need to feed then go for it!

What kind of needles and syringes do you have? If they aren't insulin syringes then they may not be appropriate...depending on which insulin you are giving, they will be either U40 or U100 syringes...29-31 guage.....

I think you have all that you need, except ketostix to test her urine for ketones.

Jen
 
Any suggestions on how to test her urine? We have 9 cats. Also while not truly a kitty question...King our dog is really missing his kitty friend while Muse is away at the hospital, (he thinks she is his mom) but he weighs 75lbs when she comes home is there going to be any problems with letting him "sit in" while I test her or shoot her? Up until now they have been joined at the hip...lol I'm afraid if I take her off to another room he is going to throw such a fit that it may stress her out more, but then again I'm not really sure if having with us is gong to help either. Perhaps I could set her on a counter of table where they can see each other but he won't be in the way...Thoughts? Suggestions?

Mel and Muse
 
I agree with the ketostix; you should be able to find those in the diabetes section of your local pharmacy. I've always found them in the aisle, but some folks have said that their local drug store keeps them behind the counter.

If you're picking up new syringes, make sure you either .3 (my preference) or .5cc syringes. Those will make it easier to accurately measure smaller doses of insulin, if / when you need to start tweaking the dose.

If you're using a U-40 insulin: the U-40 syringes are usually less comfortable for cats (they're usually longer and thicker than U-100 syringes). If you feel comfortable doing the conversion, you can use U-100 syringes with a U-40 insulin, but you'll need to use the conversion chart, which you can find here. (Bonus: U-100 syringes are easier and cheaper to find than U-40 syringes.)

I would also suggest scrolling to the bottom of the page and going to the Health Links section. Once there, print out Melissa and Popcorn's post on how to treat hypos. Read it over when you have a few minutes, then tape it to the side of your fridge. If / when you suspect a hypo, that's not the time to find out that your internet connection has gone down or you can't find the link.

You can take any leftover high-carb canned or dry food, and put it in your hypo toolkit. That's just some stuff that can help in treating different degrees of hypoglycemia; Jojo and Bunny have a list of stuff that can be useful in the Health Links section, right next to Melissa's post. I put everything together in a small box, because I'm paranoid: I didn't want to risk someone confusing the high-carb and low-carb food and, if I suspected a hypo, I also didn't want to keep running back and forth looking for whatever-it-was that I needed -- I wanted everything sitting together *right* *there* for me to use.

You may want to use something to pad the back of Muse's ear when you do the lancet prick; that makes the ear a bit firmer to lancet, while reducing the risk of you pricking your finger. Some folks use a bit of toilet paper, which others are partial to cotton balls. Depending on how easily Muse's ears bleed (they're usually harder to get to bleed in the beginning, then they "learn" to bleed (which sounds incredibly weird, but it's true)), some folks use a small bit of Vaseline dabbed on the ear to help the droplet 'bead up', which makes it easier to get enough blood on the test strip.

After getting the blood on the test strip and while you're waiting for results, remember to put pressure on both sides of the ear where you lanceted. That'll help keep bruising down, and which will hopefully make Muse more willing to accept continuing tests. Some folks use neosporin with pain relief to help.

Depending on how many test strips you have on hand, you may want to get some more; the first few times you try blood testing, you can run through a lot of strips.

The lancet pen your mom gave you is a good idea to try, but check it out first. Some of them make a "clicking" sound when they're sprung, which can startle the cat into moving their head (because it's going to sound right next to their ear). You may want to test whether Muse is going to startle at that or not. If so, you can help desensitise Muse to the sound by randomly clicking the pen from different distances, to get her used to the sound. You can also free-hand the lancet, which some folks prefer as it gives them greater control over the depth and aim of the lancet.

When it's time to start home-testing, you may want to review the Hometesting Links and Tips in the Health Links section. If you're on a slow internet connection, you can use something like keepvid to download testing videos to your home PC, so you don't have to wait through buffering times.

And ... I think that's about it from me. Good luck to you and to Muse!!

-- Jean and her Gwyn
 
I'll just add that if you have trouble with the lancet poking device (i did) you can try free hand poking with just lancet and cotton ball on other side of ear.
also make CERTAIN you have the correct syringes as you don't want to under or more likely over dose kitty with wrong size syringe...maybe bring it in to vet's office?
also do not necessarily go with vet's dosing advise.
2 reasons.
cat is now on different diet- thus lower #'s
cat is now home- thus less stressed-thus lower #'s
start low go slow is our general motto.
and by the way GREAT START! :mrgreen:
 
Thanks Lori! Just trying to do everything right from the beginning...Muse is named Muse for a very good reason...She is truly my Muse. For a couple of years she was truly my reason for living...I had to get out of bed to feed her, I had to be responsible for her care so even though after going through a nasty divorce regardless of how horrible I felt I had to be there for her. In fact she picked out my current hubby...When Jon and I first started dating she wanted nothing to do with him and would push him away if he sat to close to me...Well it didn't take long for me to realize that she had started waiting for him at the door and give a look like "Hey Mom, I like this guy can we keep him?" But she is still all MY GIRL, she sleeps with me and we share a pillow. In fact the hubby went out and bought us a bigger bed so that all the kitties could sleep with us. There is a sign hanging over the cats food dishes here that my hubby made me last mother's day with a picture of Muse on it that reads "I'm over fed, over pampered, and over loved I DESERVE SO MUCH MORE! lol As far as syringes go we have like 5 different sizes here since I vaccinate all my animals from the 4lb ball of fuff we call Angel to the 75lb canine King.
 
Awwww mamma, what a great story. Muse is very lucky and so are you to have found each other. btw, tell us your name too.
 
lol I'm Melody or as my friends call me Cat which is a long story in and of itself...lol But to make it short comes from the fact that my husband ( who was also my first love in High School just took me 30 years to convince him that he had it right the first time) said I reminded him of a siamese cat. I'm small, thin,leggy, vocal, and always in mischief...hehehe. Thanks again to you all, you may never truly know how much it means to me to see so many tales of kitties living long lives here. Just 4 days ago I was living in fear of being told my precious fur-daughter was going to leave us...Now I have hope we will have many many more years of pets, purrs and cuddles. Can't Wait for her to come home so we can start this part of our journey together. When she does get home I will try to get a few pics of her as she is now and as she improves I want a visual record of how far we are coming. Just to remind me that we never want to go back to these frightening days again. The Pic on my avatar is her in her better days...and the siamese in the background is Amon Ra, Muse brought him home for dinner one day and he ended up staying...lol. Yes, She routinely brings home dinner guests, she seems to have a knack for finding friends that need a good meal and a warm place to sleep.
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Also seeing a lot about giving her raw meat, but I know she won't eat it raw, can I say brown ground turkey or beef for her? We only eat 85% lean or better and we actually perfer ground turkey or grond chicken to hamburger anyway so there is plenty in the freezer.
Click to expand...

Plain cooked meat is fine as treats. Boiling, poaching, steaming, baking without any oils or seasoning, etc. Ground meat would be ok if you just boil it instead of using oil or something to brown/cook it.

Beef can be an allergen to some cats.

Besides ground meats, you can plain cook things like chicken and turkey breasts, drum sticks, thigh meat, etc. Some people here cook up a batch of plain meat and store most of it in the freezer to use for treats later. If you boil or poach, you can save the cooking liquid and use that as "gravy" on top of canned food or with the meat itself.

Have you tried freeze dried raw? Some cats who flat out refuse to eat fresh raw meat or frozen commerical brands of raw will readily eat freeze dried meat. It has the texture of freeze dried meat treats like Halo Liv-A-Littles. Look for grain-free freeze dried raw. Nature's Variety is one brand. Stella and Chewy's is another.
 
you say you have syringes of all kinds. Please make sure you have insulin syringes.
3/10 th cc with half unit markings for easily dosing smaller amounts with out guessing. I like the short needles and have 31 gauge.
you are off to a fine start.
 
insulin syringes are quite tiny compared to the usual array - because insulin is very potent.

This is the kind that I buy:
0.3cc (30 units), 31 ga (tiniest needle) x 5/16" long (needle length) with half-unit markings
I prefer the Monoject brand -- cheaper than BD but I liked it better than GNP (cheapest)
http://hocks.com/hocks-healthcare/hocks ... 40030.html

U100 insulin (human) means that 1cc (=1 ml) contains 100 units
U40 insulin (pet) means that 1cc (=1 ml) contains 40 units (so more fluid is needed for same dose)

U40 syringes are 2.5x bigger than U100 syringes to get the same dose.
U40 syringes are available with 28ga or 29ga needles -- so they hurt a little more than the 30 or 31 gauge.

If you are prescribed a U40 pet insulin, you can use human U100 syringes if you multiply by 2.5. However, on the board here, always tell us your "true dose" of insulin -- not how many lines on the syringe

Human insulin syringes are less expensive and more common (any pharmacy instead of buying from your vet).
 
Just got home from getting Muse's first bottle of insulin and wouldn't you know it...Its one I have seen nothing on...Anyone use Relion? Haven't gotten syringes yet...wasn't sure what to get but will pick those when we know for sure the little lady is coming home...waiting on a phone call now and keeping my fingers crossed.
 
You want U100 insulin syringes that have a 3/10 cc (30 unit) capacity, preferably with half unit markings:

resource.aspx


Here's a thread with members' preferences of U100 3/10cc insulin syringes and where to buy: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 22,1959486

Relion insulin syringes are good and not expensive :smile:

What is the name of the insulin?
 
Seriously? Novolin N? Couldn't he have come up with a more current insulin?

Sigh.

Novolin N is a faster acting insulin and is not the best for cats. It can work and it will help but you need to be cautious with it.

I will get you a link with info on how to use it's cousin, humulin N.
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Novolin N and the Vet just called MUSE IS COMING HOME!!!!!
Click to expand...

You can use U100 insulin syringes with Novolin N :smile: Any pharmacy sells U100 insulin syringes. You may need a prescription from the vet in order to buy them. Make sure the vet specifies 3/10 cc on the prescription. In the future, you can buy your insulin syringes online with no prescription. Many people buy from Hocks.com Use the green ad link that is at the top of the FDMB boards. It will generate money that will help keep the board running.

As Jen said, Novolin N isn't the best insulin to use. It hits the cat pretty hard right away and then wears off very quickly. Some cats do respond well to Novolin N, though.

Ask your vet about Lantus, Levemir, or ProZinc insulins. Any of these are much better choices. Some cats who start on Lantus right away and eat a low carb diet go into remission pretty quickly. I think the remission rate is 80% or so for newly diagnosed cats.
 
Muse is home!! We have an appointment for her on Wednesday so will inquire about switching her insulin then, But with the long weekend and the fact they are closed on Tuesdays so that will be the first chance I will get to talk to them. Really glad you are all here or I would be scared to death to have her newly home and no vet support to back me up. Still nervous but I suppose everyone is the first time. I'll be giving her first shot at 9 pm this evening and will let you all know how that goes.

Mel and Muse

Oh yeah...first test was 311 but was taken before we left the Vet's hoping to see better numbers once she has a chance to de-stress at home.
 
Just remember -- Muse will pick up on any nerves or fear.

You're the mom and you know best.

Be calm and pretend that you know what you are doing and Muse will be calm too. Soon it will be easy for both of you
 
I am assuming since you have lancets, you will be testing? with N I believe you test, feed then shoot since it is a fast acting insulin. you do not want to shoot before eating in case muse decides does not want to eat
 
I agree that N often isn't the best insulin for cats, and that many cats do better on Levemir, Lantus and ProZinc. That said, some cats *do* do well on N, and it's cheaper than the others, so it may be worth a try.

Please please read and follow the link Jen gave you, especially the part about feeding before giving the shot. I'm fairly certain that N is a test-feed-shoot insulin. That means you want to test the blood sugar levels before you give food, so that you can get a BG reading that's unaffected by food spikes. Right after that, you feed the cat and give him about an hour to start digesting the food.

This is important: if the pre-feeding BG reading was under 300, DO NOT give insulin! N is known for sharp, fast drops in BG levels, and every cat reacts differently to each different insulin. It may be completely safe to give your cat N at numbers less than 300, but you can't be certain of that until you get more data. If the pre-feeding BG level was over 300, then give the N.

You'll eventually want to run a BG curve -- getting a series of BG readings every hour from pre-shot until the BG starts rising again (usually somewhere around +5 to +7 on N). But you'll need to give Muse's body several days to adjust to getting the insulin before the data you get will be completely reliable for deciding whether to increase the dose. Until then, when you have time -- over the weekend, at night, whenever -- try to grab some random blood tests, to see where Muse's BG levels are. Document the pre-shot number, the time that you gave the shot, and any random BG test you manage to run.


Now, you'll note that I said that you won't initially get data that's reliable to decide whether to increase the dose. But you *will* get data that may indicate that you might need to decrease the dose. Until you get a feel for how Muse reacts to insulin, if you get a reading of ... let's say 70 or less, please come onto the boards and ask if you should be concerned. A 70 in itself is absolutely *nothing* to be concerned about. In fact, if that's the lowest that Muse's BG goes during the cycle, that's fine. But, if that 70 occurs too early in the cycle, when the blood sugar is still dropping, then Muse *might* be headed for a hypoglycemic event, and -- *if* intervention is necessary -- it's less stressful on you (and Muse) to start early.

I'm also suggesting 70 as a watch number because some cats can have hypo symptoms at higher-than-typical-hypo BG numbers, and because, if you come onto the boards at an odd hour or a holiday weekend or something, there can be less folks around than normal. If you come on at +5 and say you got a reading of 70, you'll almost certainly be told to test again in half an hour and post that number -- but at least people will have time to see your first post and know that there might be a problem coming up, and folks will stick around to help.

If you do need to post for help in this situation, please post on the main Diabetes Health board; that probably gets more traffic than the N/Vetsulin forum. And please use a informative header like "2u Humulin N, +5 = 70 -- am I okay?" That'll get faster looks from knowledgable folks than a less descriptive header like "not sure if this is right".


Finally, has your vet told you how much insulin to give Muse, and how frequently? I know that Muse is now stabilised enough to come home, but please *please* check back in here with the dosage before you give her insulin. Most cats are stressed when they're at the vet's, so their BG levels will tend to be high when they're being 'stabilised' in an unfamiliar environment. When they come home, they relax and their BG levels decrease. So a dose that was perfectly safe at the vet's may be too high a dose to continue on at home.

And sometimes vets treat cats with diabetes like small dogs with diabetes, and cats and dogs react very differently to insulin. Some vets will start you at just one shot a day, and the metabolism of a cat is simply too fast; almost every cat needs shots twice a day. And some vets will start you at 2 or more units. Because some cats can be very sensitive to insulin, it's usually much safer to start at a lower dose of just one unit twice a day and give that time to settle in before increasing the dose. The exception to this is if the cat has proven to be prone to ketones / diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), in which case you need to be careful in reducing the dose. So please, if you would, just check back in here and let us know how many units you're supposed to give Muse, and how frequently?


FWIW, ReliOn is WalMart's brand name for their medical products; you can get ReliOn syringes, glucometers, test strips, etc. I used to be a fan of their .3cc 31-gauge short insulin syringes, but the last couple boxes I got from them were by a different supplier and the needles were less sharp than they used to be. Not sure if I'd've continued getting them or switched to a different brand, like BD.

Good luck to you and to Muse!! --

Jean and her Gwyn
 
Well at the moment we can't test her at home, Mom couldn't find her spare meter but I have a newbie kit on its way. But as soon as I have a meter in hand I will be testing her, I know from family history this is a delicate dance to balance food and insulin...The vet sent us home with a box of syringes to get us started at least. Right now she is on 2 units every 12 hours. They also sent us home with Hill's Prescription a/d canned food and told us she loved it....lol Well got her home and she was screaming to be fed so tried what they had sent home...And promptly got the "WTF is this crap? Come on Mom you can do better" look so popped open a can of fancy feast and couldn't get it out of the can fast enough for her, she was licking it from the fork as fast as I could spoon it out. Ate about half the can and promptly fell asleep purring on my lap. I know you will all understand how good it feels to have her warm, content and purring (and softly snoring ) in my lap right now. I'm exhausted from worry and she seems just as worn out but she looks SOOO MUCH BETTER. Her eyes are bright, her nose is a lovely shade of pink again and while she is still boney I can tell she has gained a few pounds. And right now she seems to be sleeping just a very peaceful sleep. Not like she was last Sunday where I was afraid to let her go to sleep or fall asleep myself because I was afraid she would never wake up again.
 
> I know you will all understand how good it feels to have her warm, content and purring (and softly snoring )
> in my lap right now. I'm exhausted from worry and she seems just as worn out but she looks SOOO MUCH
> BETTER. Her eyes are bright, her nose is a lovely shade of pink again and while she is still boney I can tell
> she has gained a few pounds. And right now she seems to be sleeping just a very peaceful sleep. Not like
> she was last Sunday where I was afraid to let her go to sleep or fall asleep myself because I was afraid she
> would never wake up again.

I'm *so* glad for you both!


> Right now she is on 2 units every 12 hours. They also sent us home with Hill's Prescription a/d canned food
> and told us she loved it....lol Well got her home and she was screaming to be fed so tried what they had sent
> home...And promptly got the "WTF is this crap? Come on Mom you can do better" look so popped open a can
> of fancy feast and couldn't get it out of the can fast enough for her, she was licking it from the fork as fast
> as I could spoon it out.

Uhh ... I hate to bring this up, but what flavors of Fancy Feast are you feeding? In your earlier post, you mentioned stocking up on Ocean Whitefish & Tuna, Savory Salmon Feast, and Cod, Sole, and Shrimp Feast. All of those are 2-to-3% carbs. The A/D that your vet stablised Muse on is 13% carbs.

I know you're waiting for your test kit to arrive, but until it does, *please* consider either switching to a higher carb food or giving a lower dose of insulin. The dose of insulin that's appropriate for a 13%-carb diet is almost certainly too much for a 3%-carb diet. As an example, whenever Gwyn's base food was A/D (13% carbs), she required 4 units of PZI twice a day; and whenever Gwyn's base food was Wellness Chicken (4% carbs), her insulin needs dropped to 2 units of PZI twice a day.


Regardless, I'm delighted that Muse is home and that mom and kitty are having a relaxing evening together :) --

Jean and her Gwyn
 
I got about half a can of the a/d down her this evening at about 7:30 Right now whatever I can get her to eat whenever I can get her to eat. I'm planning on keeping her as much as possible on the A/D canned until I can start testing her and watching her bg #s more closely. But she is so thin I'm giving her a half of can about every 2 hours and switching between the Fancy Feast and A/D. The first can of Fancy Feast was Salmon and Shrimp. So far she has eaten 1/2 can A/D and 1/2 fancy feast and now we are back to a 1/2 can A/D.
 
I think the 2units sounds high, would you be willing to start with 1 unit until you get your meter and strips....it's more dangerous to give too much than too little. and honestly i don't think 1 unit is too little.
congragulations on get little muse home where she belongs...with her mamma!
 
Actually last night I just wasn't comfortable giving her the full 2u so opted to only give 1u especially with how exhasted I was I didn't want to go to sleep and have her drop to low. I would rather her be a little high than too low...See I'm learning. Guess I did okay because she woke me at 6:30 am this morning standing on my chest with her nose on mine demanding breakfast NOW! Go up fed her and the rest of the furry hoarde. She wolfed down an entire can of Wellness A/D and about half a can of FF turkey. I think this morning we are gonna just stick to the 1u until I can get my meter ond strips...We are just coming up on too long of a weekend where I'm gonna be without hubby or Vet for backup...So following the tried and true KISS Theory (Keep It Simple Stupid) lol.

Mel And Muse
 
I've also been noticing everyone has these nifty links to their kitties spreadsheets. Where can I find one of those nifty thingys? Won't help me now but would like to have it in place when we do start testing at home.

Thanks again, after last night I think Muse and I are gonna do just fine together..Oh yeah weighed Muse this morning and she is on the round to weight gain as well...since the flying trip to the emergency room on Monday she has gained 2lbs..Anyone know what a healthy Himalayan spayed female should weigh? She was a big girl before she got sick so I'm thinking she probably shouldn't get back to her original weight of between 16 to 18lbs. But comparing her to my sleek leggy Egyptian Mau and Siamese doesn't seem right either.

Mel and Muse
 
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