Gut wrenching problem aside from recent diabetes diagnosis.

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Amy Dobson

Amy Dobson

Member Since 2015
Hi All,
Today I'm completing Murphy's second curve. He's still spiking and bouncing, but at least he's responding to the insulin.
However, if diabetes was his only problem at the moment, I think he'd still be my happy boy I knew not long ago.
If he could speak, he'd tell us his problem is his itching on his head. He's absolutely completely and utterly tormented by it. He's been two weeks in an e-collar so far.. but managed to rip it off whilst I did the school run and has ripped his temples and possibly eyes. He already has corneal ulcers (which were healing well) from past trauma. I've been applying eye drops six times a day and the insulin injections and glucometer feel like a walk in the park by comparison. He's also been on tramadol tablets, which he really doesn't like having. Tonight he's been prescribed vetergesic to help with the pain.
We're fairly certain he has a flea bite allergy, which alongside the healing corneal ulcers, is driving him insane.
He's the most gentle boy in the world - I've seriously never been bitten or scratched by him. Even now, the worst he's giving out are growls.
The vet doesn't want to prescribe the steroid, as this is what triggered his diabetes.
But now I'm at a loss as to what to do. He's so very uncomfortable and I just want him to feel ok and comfortable again.
Does anyone have any advice or recommendations as to what could be used in place of steroids?
Does anyone have experience of managing a severe flea bite allergy?
I would be so hugely grateful for and advice and help.
Thank you xx
 
It is possible that your cat suffers from a food allergy. When Squeaker did this, all wounds were concentrated on the neck and head as well, he had also picked up fleas. Yet the self-wounding continued continued for months in the absence of fleas, he was switched to Hill's d/d and in a couple of weeks the scratching stopped and he began to heal. Self-mutilation of the head/neck is a hallmark of food allergy.
 
Just wanted to add that steroids are also why Squeaker developed diabetes. But he also ended up with heart damage and renal failure as well.
 
The tramadol can cause itchyness. Probably not the cause, but might be aggravating. I'm not sure but if you want to avoid steroids, then ask the vet about an antihistamine might help short term? If it's that bad, if it were my cat, I'd consider short term steroids to get it settled down, and just increase the insulin during that time.
 
Meya14 said:
If it's that bad, if it were my cat, I'd consider short term steroids to get it settled down, and just increase the insulin during that time.
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I'm so sorry to hear this, (((Amy))). You poor love.

I do agree with Meya.

If Murphy is really suffering and it is likely that steroids will help alleviate that...... Well.....if it were my cat I'd certainly consider that in the short term.... It may even be that the allergy is raising his blood glucose numbers...
Murphy is already diabetic. Insulin dosage can be increased if necessary. That's no big deal. And your hometesting would quickly alert you to whether any dose adjustments need to be made.

Another member here, Sarah @phlika29 , also needed to use steroids for her kitty who is in remission. Her thread is here: Question ongoing steroid use and retaining diabetic remission

Really hoping that Murphy feels better soon.
Hugs to you,

Eliz
 
Hi All,
It could be food allergies, yes. But it's always at this particular time of year. Or it has been for the past three years. He was an inside cat for ten years - we lived in a busy city with dangerous roads, but moved to the countryside three years ago. He's absolutely loved being an outdoor cat. But this is when his spring time dermatitis started, and previously its been managed with injected medrone.
I agree, short term steroid use would vastly improve his quality of life.
I've just sent the latest curve results to my vet and have asked if we could try using atopica - I've read lots about this and it seems to be very effective.
Failing that, ill ask for a return to steroid use.

One more question I have is has anyone used vetergesic in a diabetic cat? Does it effect blood glucose?

Thank you.
 
I was going to suggest Atopica. This is what my vet wanted Bailey on from the very beginning of her diagnosis with pancreatitis. She was also dealing with allergies (little bumps around her ears, sores on her tongue and over-grooming her tummy to the point there wasn't much hair). Unfortunately it made her quite sick - she vomited three times more often on it than she had with just having untreated pancreatitis. So we had to go with a steroid, which she does quite well on. Yes, she has now developed diabetes, but for almost two years, she was a comfortable, contented kitty, so in spite of the present situation, I have no regrets. My vet did want to try her on Atopica again, hoping that with the help of an anti-nausea drug, she could adjust to it this time, get off the steroid and maybe go into remission, but that didn't work, as she still ended up vomiting on it. So it seems she is particularly sensitive to the stuff. That doesn't mean Murphy will be, however - it could really be helpful for him. Hope it works out.
 
If she is an outdoor cat, the fleabite allergy is always a possibility. The other thing that I'd rule out is mites. My cat had a mite problem for a while, and it took a while to figure it out, because the appearance of the rash wasn't the typical mange appearance. She had a different species of mite (demodex) causing her itching, and at the same time, I was getting itchy as well (yuk). We treated her a few doses of flea treatment from the vet and her rash went away. The first flea treatment didn't work (frontline), so we tried a second brand (revolution).

Edit: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2141&aid=730
 
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Awww, Amy....I'm so sorry. I have had both cats and dogs with allergies and it's quite upsetting to see them driven so insane as I, too have allergies and am miserable with them.
Allergies for pets have included foods (had to switch to lamb formula), grass and tree pollens, mites/fleas and even ant bites. Our previous dog, believe this or not...was allergic to DUST MITES. I had to keep the house as immaculate as I could, take up all carpeting, put down plastic over the couches, vacuum until I couldn't see straight but, it did control it.
(Hey, I got good at lifting couches and grew muscles!) ;)

One vet told me to get an over the counter allergy med...one that would make us drowsy and started with a C...Chloro something. Sorry, I can't remember the name but, he titrated it to the cat's weight. Hopefully, the med you are hoping for, will be what works.

However, having been in your shoes to some degree, I'd ask about Benadryl cream/ointment as a topical relief (some vets love it...others hate it).
I've also taken a warm washcloth and wiped down my pets to get off any pollens/dust a couple of times a day...even wet paper towels work but, nothing with anything in it...ie: personal wipes.
I know this is a tough one to do, but perhaps, try getting a lamb or rabbit or venison formulation food and give that a try. There are several on the list but, I don't know what is available for you where you are.
And...heck...good time to give the house a really good vacuum, (I don't mean to imply that you're not a good housekeeper by any means of the word...just that dust mites are everywhere, especially padded furniture and under it that we don't think about vacuuming thoroughly or often enough). Wash any bedding in hot water and dry it in a dryer if possible.
Corn is a BIG offender so, if there's any corn in Murphys' food, you might want to look for another that has a different protein source like mentioned above as well as corn free.

I know this sounds ridiculous and overboard but, has there been any new scents/perfumes/cleansers...even something as seemingly innocuous as Febreeze???

Just go back to when this seems to have developed, in your mind and see if there's something different that you might not even be thinking of. Did you get a new couch/sofa/padded chair?

It could be almost anything but, the most common ones that I was told about, are the above so, fingers crossed that you get the med you are hoping to get as well as figure out what might be "the offender".

And, one last thing here...playing detective ;) since he is scratching at his head and eyes, I'm wondering if perhaps, you know how cats clean themselves with their paws going over their heads and eyes etc...it *MIGHT* be something he's got in his saliva or, perhaps...even on his paws from walking through grass etc.???

But, if it's definitely flea bites, you may have to rip up any carpeting, give the house a good treatment for fleas (there's sprays etc.), make sure he has flea protection...the most complete one available to you where you live, have him, de-flea'd if there are any on him (put in on white paper, ruffle him up with a good general/over body rub, then look at any "black specks you might find". If you do find them on the paper, put a drop of water on the speck. If it turns reddish in colour, it's flea droppings. But, I'd find it rather strange that the only place he'd get bitten, would be on his head???

We'll all knock heads together to figure it out together. You're not alone.
 
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MMM, Meya and Louellen,
Thank you SO so much for your thoughtful and helpful replies. I'm starting to wonder about pollen. We back onto a corn field and the problems started around the time it was sown. And if course there's the possibility that the herbicides/pesticides and other chemicals could be a trigger. They've sprayed this year more than usual, incredibly annoying!
I spoke to Murphy's vet earlier, and he's prescribed Atopica. It's in tomorrow, so I'll pick it up.
MMM, I'll update on whether the Atopica makes him sick. I'm really hoping not.
Thanks All.
Amy.
 
Try the new med and all the suggestions about the allergies. But if this were my cat, and steroids helped, I would give the steroid and adjust the insulin to compensate. Quality of life is what it's about, not numbers.
 
Feel like I'm in a quandary really. The vet thinks that the Atopica would be preferable with the diabetes diagnosis, but I've just been reading literature that it increases BG any way. I've no problem with using steroids, but I'm wondering why my vet thinks Atopica might be a better option that steroids?
I'm feeling very confused, so if anyone has an idea as to why, please share your thoughts.
I'm supposed to be picking up the Atopica in ten hours. Need more time to research :bookworm:
 
I believe each drug (a) counteracts the inflammatory and immune system, giving relief to the allergic animal and (b) has some potentially serious side effects with long term use. The difference, as I understand it, is that Atopica can be tapered off to a relatively low dose, not even need to be given every day, and still be effective, reducing (but not eliminating) the possibility of long term side effects (including messing with BG) more so than prednisolone. Whereas with pred., that's not so much the case. When Bailey was first put on pred., it was a relatively high dose (forget how much now) and we gradually tapered her down to as low a dose as we could without a return of her symptoms. Once we got to a certain dose, if we went lower, she started throwing up again. And if she refuses to eat food with pred in it (I get it compounded) for a couple of days in a row, her vomiting returns. So she can't be off it, and here we are. Since she doesn't tolerate Atopica, this was the choice we had to make. When it comes to treatment, everything is a trade off. And every cat is different. Hopefully Murphy responds well, but if not, pred. is a viable alternative.
 
Thank you!
I've now absolutely terrified myself by reading the side effects of Atopica and am really reluctant to start it. It sounds so counter intuitive to start - especially the link to pancreatitis. Plus I hadn't realised its effects won't be noticed for a few weeks. Murphy is absolutely miserable, I can't see him being in an e collar for another 3 weeks!
I'm going to ask about the possibility of trying budesonide (Entocort).. and if that's not possible, I'm pretty certain I will want to try pred for him. He's too elderly and miserable to tolerate much more of this.
 
I hear you. It is hard to see them go through all this and hard to know what the right decision is - we want so desperately to help. In spite of the side effects I'm not going to knock Atopica. Although it didn't work for Bailey it must do some good or it wouldn't be a choice. Pred. has drawbacks too (and I've been experiencing them in spades the last few weeks, if indeed it is the reason for the diabetes) but like I said, each cat is different and it worked for her. Actually, her last ultrasound indicated that there was some improvement around the area of her pancreas so as I said above, I don't regret the choice. I was willing to try Atopica again because I really hoped we wouldn't have to go this route with the insulin but that calculated risk failed. Part of me worries that the delay in treating her diabetes because we tried it is the reason for her current decline, but I can't think like that because it might have worked, and I wouldn't be sitting here typing this right now. How could we have not tried? In the end, whatever you decide, however it turns out, it is important to remember that we are all trying our best and can't do any more than that. Take care.
 
Thank you, MMM.
I've heard from the vet and he said the choice is mine, which is great. He feels there is less risk in a diabetic cat with Atopica. Especially as it was steroids that triggered his onset of diabetes (depo medrone).
I'm wondering if a low dose pred syrup might be the best option for now.
I'm definitely in a quandary, so if anyone has experience with either, please let me know!
Thank you.
Amy.
 
Absolutely no idea if this is coincidence, but out of desperation I ordered a homeopathic remedy. He's got his collar on, but still hasn't attempted to scratch. I'm sceptical, but at least he's enjoying some calm.
 
Chlor-Tripolon That's the name of the allergy med that we had other pets on for allergies. Here's a link to it though I haven't been able to find literature on it with regards to diabetes and how it might affect that yet.

Chlor-Tripolon and here's a Vet Site on antihistamines for cats

Just think of it this way, I guess. If Murphy is that miserable, it's going to bring up his BG levels anyways through aggravation and, scar his eyes to possible blindness so, it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, I suppose. Or, maybe, that homeopathic remedy might work. Maybe, try holding off trying the vet meds until/unless you see Murphy trying to scratch again???

And, just remember that NO med...not even aspirin or vitamins come without some sort of *potential* side effect. Heck, like someone else was saying, if we listen to all of the drugs marketed on commercials on television and their side effects, including death, cancer etc., no one would be on any meds! Every med has a side effect or possible adverse effect. But, if possible, sticking to one less riddled with them is likely the best bet. If not...you might want to try the Atopica.

By the way, I find it odd that Murphy would only react to this with his eyes/head??? Could it be that he's putting his head into flowers/bushes or something that might contain pollen while out? Is he sticking his head under a bed or couch that might have dust? It seems that it *might* be something that only his head is getting into???
 
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Hi you ave been given lots of good advice so not sure what I can add. With regards the steroid use for me the concerns over remi's IBD became more pressing than the diabetes. I found that it took a few days/weeks for it to really have any affect on his BG and by that time it had calmed things down alot so maybe a short course would be worth it.
 
Thanks all, so much.
We've found out it's ear mites and he has military dermatitis as a result.
Any advice regarding ear mite/military dermatitis treatment would be most welcome!
 
Amy Dobson said:
Thanks all, so much.
We've found out it's ear mites and he has military dermatitis as a result.
Any advice regarding ear mite/military dermatitis treatment would be most welcome!
Click to expand...


Ear mites are easily treated with a medication that your vet will drop into Murphy's ears after cleaning them out. It will look like black or brown "gunk" as it's cleaned out. Our dog had them and one treatment and they were gone. Some will need 2 treatments but, they're very easily taken care of. :)

Here's one article with natural remedies for the Military Dermatitis

But, it just may be that once the mites are gone (they bite all around the head and ears and spread out over the head area), the dermatitis will clear up! :)

Thank the heavens you've found the reason for it now! :)

Honestly...one treatment and Cassidy (our current dog) stopped the scratching within 24 hours or less. I'd let the vet do the treatment as they can get the medication right down in there where we might struggle. It's a more sure-fired way to get rid of it for sure and not require a 2nd treatment if possible. Best to get it cleared up as thoroughly and quickly as possible. Just my 2 cents worth but, I'd bet once those mites are gone, the scratching will be gone too. You might even be able to use a topical over the counter cream like a corticosteroid cream that won't be absorbed by the body the same as one by mouth would be and probably not affect the diabetes because of that idea. Even Benadryl cream might work wonders for the irritation of the mite bites. I'm fairly sure that once the mites are gone, the itching and skin will clear up too.

Oh, and by the way..if you have any other cats..you might want to have them checked as well as they can transfer them back and forth and you'll be in a never ending cycle of trying to clear it up.

Congratulations! I did find it odd that it was purely his head that was at issue. I couldn't put my finger on why though. Glad that you've now figured it all out. :)
 
Thank you , Louellen..
That's great news about Cassidy. The vet has given us surolan topical ointment and Advocate spot on.
Fingers and paws very much crossed :):cat:
Thankfully we've only got Murphy in our house.
Ill see if I can buy benadril cream over the counter for his miliary dermatitis. They've really got to his face.
 
Oh and that article is great, thank you! Unsure if you'd have to buy a pet specific brand, but bizarrely I have quercetin and reduced glutathione in my cupboard. Ill do some research :bookworm:
 
Oh! Thank you. That's a bit odd, I wonder why he prescribed that then? Are the effects lessened by it being topical rather than systemic though?
As an aside, there's a good evidence base that supplementing with garlic keeps ear mites and fleas at bay. Think I'll try it as he's been unbelievably miserable with this, even attempting to rip his eyes out. Horrible.
 
I HAVE used topical ear med`s with steroids and they have skyrocketed BGs.
Did the vet says what the problem was?
Steroids reduce inflammation. I have used Baytril Otic for bacteria ear problems and Conifite for fungus/yeast problems
 
It's for a bad ear mite infestation. But also to put on his temples, where he's scratched - very inflamed. It's tricky though as he's recovering from a corneal ulcer in each eye and so I mustn't get steroid near that.
 
My goodness. Poor thing. I hope he will be getting some relief from all this soon.
 
I know this is confusing you even further, Amy. I'm not sure about Surolan as I've never had to worry about diabetes AND ear mite treatments, but, let me quote something that Larry and Kitties posted awhile back for someone else with a Sugar Kitty and diabetes. :)

You do not have much choice. I looked at PS site and they only on three cat ones. One is herbal and did not list the ingredients while the other two contain Pyrethrin. The following says that is OK for cats. I my self would use ACAREXX® (0.01% ivermectin).
http://www.vetinfo.com/treating-ear-mit ... cides.html

Perhaps, more light can be shed on this, @Larry and Kitties ? It was wonderful to know that the meds that she is to use on Murphy *could* be a problem...but....can you explain further as to what you mean with the above and where she might get it? Or, what you would recommend for her? Remember, this cat's eyes now have corneal abbrassions, ulcerations and well as tearing up his own face with scratching so, she really needs to get this under control FAST. I'm sure that the mite problems, aggravation with the intense itching and the pain of the eye issues must also be raising poor Murphy's BG levels so, the sooner she gets this cleared up for him...the better! :)

@Amy Dobson I should also mention that a lot of vets will also recommend that you wash any bedding that he may sleep on and vacuum thoroughly through the house...especially, carpeting. But, our vet didn't. Don't know why though? And, all is well with Cassidy and he didn't recommend that we treat Morrigan or our other cat who has now passed but was here at the time. Not sure but, better to do a bit of extra work now and be safe.

When in doubt, call your vet and talk it over with him/her. Saturdays, usually someone is in to talk to before a certain hour.
 
Just an infobit: Pyrethrins naturally occur in marigolds. Planting them around one's home may help deter insects.
 
Thank you louellen and mmm. It's really tricky knowing what's best to do. Last night I crushed some garlic into water and let it steep. Then used it to bathe his ears (I must sound like a mad woman!). He loved it and it definitely calmed him. Although hasn't stopped him wanting to rip off his own head.
Bjm, I've got some calendula tincture and I'll use that this morning.
Bizarrely his bg levels are low, I'm going to post a thread about that because I feel I need guidance.
 
My cat Sheba had military dermatitis on her neck about a year ago.
We never found out what started it but she was treated for ear mites as she was scratching there as well. It nearly drove her mad. We tried a steroid cream but it did nothing. In the end I put calamine lotion on it several times a day and it seemed to sooth it. Eventually all the hair fell out around it ...I kept putting on the calamine lotion on it and it eventually all stopped and the hair grew back and she was fine.
Not sure if this will help you..
 
Thank you Bron. Poor Sheba - you can truly empathise with how awful it is. He's had an e collar on for three weeks now. Definitely driving him insane.
Ill give anything a try. Calamine lotion is in the cupboard too.
 
I'm not sure Acarexx is available in the UK, but I'll call my vet on Monday to find out.
I've found an equivalent of the benadryl cream here - although it's equivalent to the extra strength stuff, so might be too strong for a cat.? It's 2% diphenhydramine hydrochloride.
 
Amy, at this point, with all that you're going through and poor thing is going through, I'd call his vet and check out what others might be available that won't upset the diabetes. But...*IF* there are no alternatives, you might just want to do what your vet can prescribe and let the BG be the lesser of the evils for that time frame. Since you say that his numbers are going lower, perhaps it isn't a bad thing *IF* there's nothing else.

Honestly, I think using whatever will get rid of these things for sure is what is to be aimed for. Sometimes, a home remedy or homeopathic treatment can be of use when the cat/dog isn't going nuts with the discomfort but, in this case, there is a lot of discomfort so, first things first, perhaps??? Sometimes, we can't be perfect in what we do and if that med Acarexx isn't available (I quickly looked and apparently, it's been discontinued, for what reason, I have no clue) you might have no choice but, to use the med prescribed and just wait out the BG rise temporarily. I wouldn't think that rise could last forever but, those mites can!

As for the Benadryl cream...you might want to just the Calamine lotion and see how he fares out first. If that doesn't help, you can also add on some Benadryl perhaps, watered down by adding vaseline so that it's a half-half thing. But, at the moment, until those mites are killed off and stop biting...that reaction is going to keep happening.

Honestly, I'd check with the vet (if this were me), then if it isn't that bad with diabetes, I'd go for it and get it over with if there isn't an alternative. Why prolong the agony for the poor thing AND YOU?.

Feeling for you both. :bighug:
 
Wise words Louellen.
I put his surolan on earlier, its not stopped his itching, but will hopefully deal with the mites.
I also called the vet, who thought it would be worth trying piriton tablets over the weekend.. as well as put another Advocate spot on on him.
If the itching isn't under more control by Monday, then we'll start the Atopica (he strongly urged against the pred, since it was steroids that triggered his diabetes).
Thank you for your advice :):cat:
 
Will he tolerate a bath? Most insects can't breath underwater and warm, soapy (pet safe, like Dawn, etc) water may drown a good number of them.

They can't breath if their spiracles are blocked either, be it a layer of a cream or an oil.
 
Surolan is an antibiotic/anti fungal and won't kill mites, but will help with secondary infection if present. Advocate is not the right insecticide to use with mites, they don't usually die from it/are resistant. Ivermectin or Selamectin will kill the mites. These are available topically. You may need 2 doses a few weeks apart due to the eggs. It takes about a week after you dose for the itching to completely clear up.

My cat jane had demodex mites, and she was miserable. Selamectin (revolution) cleared it up pretty quickly.
 
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