? Griff ups and downs

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primalkitty said:
Hey all,

Griff was in the yellow and now showing some pinks. Wasn't sure if it is time to change the dosage. I can tell he is feeling better, he is soliciting more affection and playing with his toys!!!:)
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I think you can guess what we're going to say ;) : there's not enough mid cycle data to know what he's doing on this dose. If I had to go out on a limb, I'd say the dose has to go up to 3.75 u. I suggest you do that for several cycles then do a complete curve on Sunday or Monday.
 
tonite was 384. Interesting that his numbers are staying pretty steady. Is that good news? Upped dose to 3.75 tonite.
 
Great job getting some mid-cycle tests!!! On prozinc, you actually want the numbers to go down in the middle and up at the ends - so if you graphed them, they would look like a smile. Here's an example:
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When you have a cycle like you had yesterday morning where the numbers stay pretty flat, it can mean two different things:
1. If the kitty drops low in the middle of a cycle, then in the cycles after that, they will stay in higher flatter numbers. We usually call that process of going low and then getting stuck high as a bounce.
2. The kitty isn't getting enough insulin yet.

The only way to tell the difference between the two is to keep getting the mid-cycle numbers. If it's part of a bounce (option #1), then in a few cycles, you'll see another low number in the middle. If it's option #2, then the cycles will just stay flat day after day. You can usually tell within six cycles (3 days) which option it is.
 
Wow, numbers all over the place! Bouncing?
Was only able to get a +5 today. We were checking out hay to buy.
 
Hmmm...not sure. That black isn't far off from the red you got last night. He did get a nice drop today though! Let's see where he goes tonight.
 
That black one is pretty high. I'm curious what's going on with the nighttime cycle. AM and PM cycles can look quite different for some cats. If there is anyway you can get some before bed tests, or grab one during the night if you wake up for something, it would be good to get a peek at what's going on there. The AMPS on 7/3 might have just been one of those things, but it also might be hinting at some nighttime lower numbers.
 
Djamila said:
That black one is pretty high. I'm curious what's going on with the nighttime cycle. AM and PM cycles can look quite different for some cats. If there is anyway you can get some before bed tests, or grab one during the night if you wake up for something, it would be good to get a peek at what's going on there. The AMPS on 7/3 might have just been one of those things, but it also might be hinting at some nighttime lower numbers.
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I will get a before bedtime.

411 this a.m. and 487 +9.
 
Sometimes it's good to review the whole SS. Here's what I see: you had better PSs when the dose was around 0.5 u to 1.0 u but had little to no data in the middle of the cycles. As you've raised the dose carefully the PSs have gone up and there are higher bounce numbers. It's great that you're getting more mid cycle data but a test every evening would help.

It's quite possible that the lack of data early on dose changes AM to PM muddied the picture and made it look like his dose needed to go up. Let's see what the other folks think: @Yong @Rachel @Djamila @StephG
I'm sorry if I'm confusing you but I think it's important to revisit the dosing plan when you don't seem to be getting where you want to go. I might be totally wrong and that's why I'd like the others to look at your SS.
 
I'm inclined to think that the lower numbers earlier on and the higher numbers now are more the result of time passing. Griff has been on insulin since February with very little to indicate that he's getting the right dose yet. That's kind of a long time to be hanging out in high numbers. But it's also possible that the bouncing we're seeing is indicating that he's getting closer to an effective dose and so he's getting more reactive.

One big question is that we have no data in the PM cycle to tell us if he's dropping lower at night. If you look at @Jen and Alfie's spreadsheet, we see really active PM cycles, and then high flats during the day. It's possible something like that is happening here too - we're getting closer to a good dose, so the night cycles are getting active later on, and causing the current high flats during the day, and those icky black numbers.

Most of us need more sleep than Jen seems to though ;). I love the data she has, but I honestly couldn't stay up that late myself on a regular basis! At some point, those lower numbers should start popping up during the AM cycle. So I would say to keep on with the six cycle increases, and get data whenever you can since there is still the possibility that we've just had some bad luck with the current data set and somehow managed to only catch the high numbers and miss the low ones! And especially if you or anyone in the house could grab an occasional middle of the night test, that could be really helpful.
 
Djamila said:
I'm inclined to think that the lower numbers earlier on and the higher numbers now are more the result of time passing. Griff has been on insulin since February with very little to indicate that he's getting the right dose yet. That's kind of a long time to be hanging out in high numbers. But it's also possible that the bouncing we're seeing is indicating that he's getting closer to an effective dose and so he's getting more reactive.

One big question is that we have no data in the PM cycle to tell us if he's dropping lower at night. If you look at @Jen and Alfie's spreadsheet, we see really active PM cycles, and then high flats during the day. It's possible something like that is happening here too - we're getting closer to a good dose, so the night cycles are getting active later on, and causing the current high flats during the day, and those icky black numbers.

Most of us need more sleep than Jen seems to though ;). I love the data she has, but I honestly couldn't stay up that late myself on a regular basis! At some point, those lower numbers should start popping up during the AM cycle. So I would say to keep on with the six cycle increases, and get data whenever you can since there is still the possibility that we've just had some bad luck with the current data set and somehow managed to only catch the high numbers and miss the low ones! And especially if you or anyone in the house could grab an occasional middle of the night test, that could be really helpful.
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Thanks for this Djamila! Good thinking. I was wondering whether I was seeing something significant or not. :)
 
Rachel said:
I agree with Djamila. I think more tests when you can and continuing the increases is a good plan. One question I do have. How old is your current bottle of insulin?
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I just refilled a couple of weeks ago.

I keep having little "freak outs" when I see big numbers.:eek: Griff still seems to feel better as he is more affectionate and playing with toys, so that makes me feel better.

Wow, @Jen and Alfie really is getting a lot of tests! I will try to get one or 2 at night.

Well, gotta go do the morning test and feed the kitties. Miss Maya kitty is letting me know that I am late!!!!

Thank you everyone!!!!
 
Djamila said:
Most of us need more sleep than Jen seems to though ;). I love the data she has, but I honestly couldn't stay up that late myself on a regular basis!
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Ha, well I'm very lucky that hubby stays up to do the late shift most of the time and I do the early starts in the morning.

Plus, green numbers are still freaking me out so on those nights hubby has been up and down stairs giving me numbers every hour! I wouldn't be awake otherwise! I'm normally tucked up in bed by +4! :)
 
Jen and Alfie said:
Ha, well I'm very lucky that hubby stays up to do the late shift most of the time and I do the early starts in the morning.

Plus, green numbers are still freaking me out so on those nights hubby has been up and down stairs giving me numbers every hour! I wouldn't be awake otherwise! I'm normally tucked up in bed by +4! :)
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Ah-ha! That's the trick! Two people testing! I was thinking you just had some magical superpower or something that allowed you to go without sleep! :D
 
Djamila said:
Ah-ha! That's the trick! Two people testing! I was thinking you just had some magical superpower or something that allowed you to go without sleep! :D
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I wish! I couldn't possibly do lates and earlies! And I'm keen to try and push him into better numbers asap so testing a lot to get as much data as possible. I dream of him being regulated enough one day to just do two or three tests a day! :cat:
 
Part of me really thinks a good dose was around the 2.0U :bookworm: but can't say for sure, obviously. The other part agrees with Djamila for what's going on in his PM cycles
primalkitty said:
IGriff still seems to feel better as he is more affectionate and playing with toys
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While doing the sugar dance, this is also very important :cat:
 
Yong said:
Have you been able to test for ketones yet? I'm really wondering if the dose is too high :bookworm:
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I did a couple of weeks ago. It was negative. It is hard to get him since 6 out of the 7 kitties use the same dang litterbox when there are 8 about the house.
 
At this point we're really all just guessing. The last time we have a +6 was three weeks ago, and there isn't enough data to even guess at when Griff is hitting nadir. So he could be bottoming out at some point and we just aren't seeing it. My gut is still going the other way, but again, it's purely a guess. I certainly wouldn't do another dose increase until we get a curve or at least something in the +4 to +6 range for a couple of days in a row to get a better idea of what's going on.
 
I did get a bedtime and a 3 a.m.. reading. Today was tough, we are hauling hay and not here much. I have noted the +4 and +6 time. I will do my best to get those readings. Sorry things are so sporadic :(
 
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