Great News for Tubz- REMISSION

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chuchunga

chuchunga

Member Since 2014
Great News for Tubz- REMISSION

Postby chuchunga » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:32 pm
Today was a great day for Tubz!
Even though we are newly diagnosed and symptoms were pretty severe for many months prior to treatment, Tubz is in REMISSION! Since being diagnosed March 4th he has successfully had his first blood glucose curve and he remained in the low 100's BG all day. He has not had any insulin since March 15th and the Doctor is confident in saying he doesnt need to be monitored as closely. I get to drop his home monitoring to every other day just once a day. Of course I will be on the look out for any signs of him coming out of remission but I could not be more thrilled with his progress. The vet said he has not seen a cat recover this quickly.

Tubz still has some issues with the back leg neuropathy and I am hoping over time his walking will improve. I know a few of you have mentioned some sort of pill you can crush and add to the food to increase recovery. What pill have you had most success with? How much do I give him (he is 18lbs) will he be able to smell it in his food because he is very particular?

I cant be more grateful for all the help you guys have given me. You guys have also saved me a ton of money not buying the prescription food and vet glucometer.

Thank you all so much,
Heather :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:
 
Er ... We consider a cat in remission if it remains between 40 to 130 mg/dL for 2 weeks with no insulin.

Edited to add: using a human glucometer. Add roughly 30 mg/dL if using a pet-specific meter.

Up to you if you want to go with what the vet is saying.
 
Depends on which meter is being used. If it's a human meter, then 40-130 with the majority of numbers in double-digits is preferred. If the vet was using a pet meter, then it's a higher range up to 160, IIRC.
 
chuchunga said:
Great News for Tubz- REMISSION

Postby chuchunga » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:32 pm
Tubz still has some issues with the back leg neuropathy and I am hoping over time his walking will improve. I know a few of you have mentioned some sort of pill you can crush and add to the food to increase recovery. What pill have you had most success with? How much do I give him (he is 18lbs) will he be able to smell it in his food because he is very particular?
Click to expand...

Great news about your cat's progress.
Keeping fingers and paws crossed for remission!

Regarding the neuropathy, some of us here found methyl B12 (methylcobalamin) to be very helpful in aiding recovery. You can buy it as 'Zobaline'. Or some folks here have bought methyl B12 in capsule form (not sure where from, sorry). You just need to check that it doesn't contain Xylitol, sweeteners etc.

I used Zobaline for Bertie. It's a tiny tablet that is easily crushed into food.
And my OH can vouch for the fact that it has no taste at all (because he had a B12 deficiency for a while and took Bertie's leftover pills! I did check with the manufacturer first that the cat pills would be OK for humans.... ;-) )

Eliz
 
How low in the 100's has Tubz been? Has he been in these low numbers for 2 weeks with no insulin?

We like to see most of the numbers under 100 with a human glucometer to see a really strong chance of a long remission.

If Tubz is in remission, here are some tips to stay OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice)

1. Never feed dry - not even treats. If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission.
3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely. You want to catch a relapse quickly. Some people only do checks every 2 weeks to a month.
4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check.
5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission.
6. Regular vet checks for infection such as dental , ear or UTI. And get them treated quick!

If your cat does fall out of remission you need to be more aggressive and resolve issues/ back on insulin as soon as possible as the window for a second remission is tight if any.
 
Thanks for all your help. To answer a few questions. First let me state that I take everything the vet says with a grain a salt. I value his wisdom and he is an amazing vet but I have learned a great deal on my own especially with website and others like it.

I am using a home test Relion Micro to be exact and all of my numbers since March 11th have been between 69-100mg/dL testing 4 times daily. (with the exception of the one day he was at the vet on the 15th it was 157, on home meter, once during the day) He was only on insulin 5 days total and has not had insulin since the 15th per my vets instructions not to dose him if he is under 150 on my home meter.

During his blood curve yesterday AT THE VET his numbers remained in the low 100's on the vets meter all day- No insulin.

His weight has remained the same (within 2 ounces) for the past 3 weeks. He was drastically loosing weight prior. (5lbs in 6 months to be exact)

I didnt realize how sick he was until he stopped walking which is why i rushed him to the vets in the first place. Then all of the other issues excessive drinking and flood the litter box and always at the food bowl made since. When you have a 23lbs cat (I adopted him that way years ago) its hard to notice weight loss as much because he is still an 18lb cat now.

I will say Tubz has not even visited the water bowl since 48 hours after starting him on wet food. I do add a tablespoon of water to his wet food at each meal just to make sure he is getting plenty of water. He also typically has one visit to the litter box a day and its the size of maybe a tennis ball in diameter. I cant believe how much he was peeing before.

Diagnosed March 4th- BG was 497 (vets meter)
One week on canned food March 11th- BG 333 (vets meter) (insulin started)
Last day of insulin March 15th (because when i went to the vet to compare my at home meter to the vets meter Tubz's numbers were in the normal range and my vet told me not to give him insulin if my meter read under 150. BUT HIS AT HOME NUMBERS WERE IN THE NORMAL RANGE ON MY HOME METER STARTING MARCH 13th and I didnt know that I should not have been giving him his .5units of Lantus)

I hope this makes our situation a little clearer.

FYI- Tubz wants nothing to do with any type of treats. So no worry there. :-D
 
Hi Heather!

Thanks for the reply and some clarification on Tubz BG readings. Since you never set up a spreadsheet and linked it to your signature, there wasn't any information for us to look at and see how Tubz had been doing with his BG readings. We just wanted to make sure it had been 14 days with readings in the normal range, 40-130 mg/dl on a human meter, before celebrating OTJ status with you and Tubz.

Congratulations to you and Tubz and hope you have a long, relaxing honeymoon at the falls and can keep Tubz diet controlled for a long time.

I was just reading a comment over in Lantus TR forum from Julie & punkin. Just thought it was worth quoting here.
julie & punkin (ga) said:
i was going to mention - you made a comment the other day about cats coming out of remission. the 2 things that i've noticed bring them out the most, well 3 things - either someone gave them dry food (ie, the petsitter or ?), they've developed a dental issue, or they have a flare up of pancreatitis.

but you are right, working down the dosing scale gives cats a strong start on being OTJ.

Davidson is the flat green boy today! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

To this I think I'd have to add a cat gaining too much weight again. Obesity in cats is one of the risk factors for insulin resistance and with our diabetic kitties, it's something to keep your eye on.

p.s. My diabetic boy Wink didn't follow the TR protocol, coming gradually down the dosing scale. He was getting some scary low numbers once I slowly switched him to the low carb food over about a 6 week period and I just wasn't home enough to keep him safe, even though I was dropping his dose a bit every day. So I dropped his dose to nothing, thinking I would restart at a low dose when his numbers went up again. Well, I never ended up putting him back on more than a 0.1U dose for a few weeks, then an OTJ trial which he flunked because he got another UTI which boosted his numbers up again, then a 2nd OTJ trial which was successful. My Wink has been OTJ for a bit over a year now. ECID and Wink certainly showed me that.
 
Are tooth issues common in diabetic cats? Is there something I should keep an eye out for that might indicate a dental problem? Even though my vet said I can drop his at home testing to three times a week instead of every day 4 times a day I think I will keep testing him daily, at least once a day, for a few weeks until I am satisfied he has really made the adjustment.

Are UTI's more common in diabetic cats as well? I know the symptoms better for a UTI so I can certainly pay attention for that.

We have three lovely cats and 2 dogs so we are a busy animal household. Although, I have read about many people on this site with MANY diabetic cats they are taking care of at once. BRAVO! to those that dedicate their lives to these needy animals. I would gladly do more of my share if I could afford to. Luckily for me, even though we have 3 cats they are creators of habit and I can tell exactly which animal is doing what and in what litter box that animal is doing it in. :thumbup

I agree about the weight of the kitty. Two of our cats are normal weight. Tubz was adopted 5 years ago already weighing 23lbs and I always knew it would be a problem one day. Now at 18lbs the doctor wants me to do my best to just keep him at a steady weight for awhile before trying to bring him down some. I should note that he is a BIG cat in general. Pretty long and tall regardless of weight.

You spoke of a spread sheet that you guys use to track....is there a link to that spread sheet? I have just been keeping a hand written journal.
 
Spreadsheet instructions here

Giver that vet stress can elevate blood glucose from 100-180 mg/dL, the curve in the office still confirms he is OTJ. Congrats!

And yes, dental issues are pretty common. If you're up for it, it is possible to brush your cat's teeth.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column (AMBG if not on insulin)
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot and/or feeding), you enter the test number in the +5 column (after feeding if OTJ)
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot) (PMBG if not on insulin)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
Wow...........good on you but make sure you didn't go OTJ too early. Davidson has had below 90 (with the exception of a few for food spikes or stress) for over 6 weeks now and yet I am not going to take him off the insulin and letting him ween off it by earning reductions. His numbers are much better then some others on here but I thing this forum has proven to be fairly accurate as for the instructions it provided all of us with, not to mention the help from many of the people on here. Just make sure you are not rushing things as you want to make sure remission is long lasting.............I hope it all works out for you!! Good to see progression for sure.
 
Hope it all works out and be sure to take it nice and slow. My Dusty was the same way, he was quickly going OTJ and I could barely catch up to him with almost no time to reduce his dosage. Luckily his remission is going well and we're looking forward to yours too! dancing_cat
 
GECKO said:
Wow...........good on you but make sure you didn't go OTJ too early. Davidson has had below 90 (with the exception of a few for food spikes or stress) for over 6 weeks now and yet I am not going to take him off the insulin and letting him ween off it by earning reductions. His numbers are much better then some others on here but I thing this forum has proven to be fairly accurate as for the instructions it provided all of us with, not to mention the help from many of the people on here. Just make sure you are not rushing things as you want to make sure remission is long lasting.............I hope it all works out for you!! Good to see progression for sure.
Click to expand...


Tubz was only "on the juice" for 5 days total and only on .5 units of Lantus twice daily. My vet told me to stop giving it to him because his numbers before eating were like 88 on my home testing meter and he didnt want Tubz to go hypoglycemic. I guess basically, how can i reduce much lower than .5? I am still testing his BG twice daily before meals and its been mid 70's to low 80's every time. His mid day test doesnt raise much higher either, 88 has been the highest number in almost 2 weeks.
 
Dusty Bones said:
Hope it all works out and be sure to take it nice and slow. My Dusty was the same way, he was quickly going OTJ and I could barely catch up to him with almost no time to reduce his dosage. Luckily his remission is going well and we're looking forward to yours too! dancing_cat
Click to expand...

Yes Thanks! This has all happened so quick. On March 4th I thought I was going to have to put my cat to sleep.....fast forward to today and he is like a whole new cat. His walking and jumping is even improving daily. :RAHCAT I could not be more thrilled to have such a quick turn around. I feel so bad I let his health decline for so long prior.
 
You're doing just fine and Tubz definitely looks to be in remission with those number. Good job, Heather! :thumbup
 
Yes, I think we can consider Tubz to be diet controlled aka in remission. Good job!

To answer a question in your previous reply, yes diabetic cats are more prone to UTI's. Usually, this is when they are in high BG numbers because of the excess sugar (glucose) in their urine. It provides a fertile environment for bacteria to grow.

I don't think that Tubz will have an issue with UTI's since you have him down in the nice low numbers now.

I think we can consider that Tubz had transient diabeties and the food change made a big difference.

I still test my OTJ boy Wink at least once a week, and he has been diet controlled now for just over a year. It took me a while to feel comfortable and cut back on the testing. I wanted to make sure he was ok before testing less. I'm still testing once a week because that is my comfort level with testing. I want to make sure I catch a rise in numbers and get him back on the juice quickly if he needs it.

Here are some tips to stay OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice)

1. Never feed dry - not even treats. If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission.
3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely. You want to catch a relapse quickly. Some people only do checks every 2 weeks to a month.
4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check.
5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission.
6. Regular vet checks for infection such as dental , ear or UTI. And get them treated quick!

If your cat does fall out of remission you need to be more aggressive and resolve issues/ back on insulin as soon as possible as the window for a second remission is tight if any.
 
Great to hear and Deb gave some really helpful tips that I will surely follow when and if Davidson goes OTJ. Guess we are all on the monitor for life program........but that's no ever going to be an issue looking at the alternative.
 
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