Grayson 5/8 dog food!...CONSULT W/ VET SCHOOL UPDATE!

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Grayson & Lu

Grayson & Lu

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I had a "Duh!!! moment" last night. Opened a bag of dog food, filled one of the cannisters, and left the bag on the floor. This morning I realized it when I walked into the kitchen, "ummmm... this probably is NOT going to be good." I was right. Nobody was talking, but Grayson's BG told the story...AMPS 488. :shock: One step forward, three steps back! YIKES!!! That's what happens when I stay at work too late, and then up too late. The one good thing is that my friends are keeping me fed w/ square meals, so I'm not living on bagels & yogurt like I usually do when life got crazy!

Still shooting 4.0u TID - which puts us back where we were at 6.0u BID. Looking at the L's to see where we'll end up going and break into the dose - the climb is much more gradual in them, typically 10 cycles before an increase, so not sure if we'll get a chance for a breakthrough w/ the IAA before it's time to start preliminary test for the Acro treatment. Posed the change to the vet and said we probably need to do it sooner rather than later. Hoping we'll get that consult sometime today, and I'll be able to get on the conference call with them. My one day a month where I'm strapped to the desk w/ duct tape... never seems to fail!

Anyways,... will keep you all tuned in as I know more.
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

Apparently Linus got the word to Grayson that dog food is really pretty tasty. Sorry about that.
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

Ask your vet about Lev. I have read that Lantus can sting -- and with the high doses..... lev is very gentle. This is from no personal experience-- just reading!
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

kse said:
Ask your vet about Lev. I have read that Lantus can sting -- and with the high doses..... lev is very gentle. This is from no personal experience-- just reading!
Click to expand...

I posed it to her as "The one thing I feel I need to do is change from ProZinc to Lantus or Levemir, and probably in the very near future. The “shed” that they provide appears to be more beneficial than the way ProZinc clears the body in ~10-12 hours. One of the questions for the vet school, is how much to use. I’m currently dosing 4 units TID (12u daily) so he doesn’t climb so much, given the Insulin Resistance. He continues to remain pretty flat, just like when I had him on the same dose earlier (6u BID)."

I read about both last night, but my eyes were getting foggy as it was late. Will re-read the comparisons (as I do most of this stuff, hoping it will all sink in!) - found in the signature of Jill & Alex, and I think there was a follow-up on one of the boards - but I was EVERYWHERE last night, so I don't remember exactly where it was. Lantus really touts their remission rates... not that I'm expecting... just looking at all the possibilities!
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

I've heard the same thing as Kim that the Lantus stings going in so with the higher doses it could be ouchy for Grayson. I've also heard that the Lev has a somewhat flatter curve.

Grayson, stay out of the dog food, it's bad for you!!
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

Lu,
Maybe PM "Marjorie and Grace" and "Momma of Muse" (Mel). I think they both tried Lantus and had difficulty with it, switched to Levemir and things got much better for their kitties. I don't believe either was a high dose kitty, but it just seemed the cats did better after they switched.

Carl
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

Thanks -

I know there are several who've used both. Since my vet doesn't use either, I feel like I can pretty much have my pick. I thought the vet school told Kim they primarily use Lantus (Glargine). That's what my college friend/vet uses on her diabetic kitty.

...same friend that told me (re: testing for Acro/IAA) Grayson was unique but not that special! :lol: Haven't spoken to her since the results... but you know I have to tell her he's an "over-achiever" when it comes to his number on both tests! Oh, come on now - you know if your kid got an awesome score on the SAT or ACT tests, you'd do exactly the same!!! :lol:
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

Oh, Grayson - dog food is YUCKY!!!!!!
emoticon-cartoon-019.gif
Even pancakes are better than dog food!

Praying you get some answers soon -
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food!

Shakes had a bad reaction to Lantus...It was horrible
I would 100% suggest Levemir,
I have been on the levemir site and Levemir does not seem to have the side effects that Lantus does
If I were you, just my opinion, I would go for the levemir
 
Re: Grayson 5/8 Got the dog food! Vet consult w/ NC State V

I just spoke w/ my vet after she did the initial consult with the NC State Vet School (where Kitty was seen). They recommended doing an ultrasound to determine if Grayson had "organmegaly" (think that's what she said) - to determine if he was having the organ growth, nonetheless. Based on the size of his poops, I'm guessing that answer is YES! (I thought Jack had started using the litter box!) :lol: And, if that's the case, then a CT Scan to confirm there's a pituitary tumor. Now, most the time, that's where the tumor is, but apparently, there can be periphery tumors instead. It would be a shame to schedule a trip out to Colorado only to find out he doesn't have a tumor - right?

My vet, Shannon, was making the referral so Grayson can be seen there, as soon as we got off the phone. They should call tomorrow to schedule these. I'm SOOOOOO there! If they say, "Be here in an hour"... I can do that! (SIGH!).

I'm feeling so much better about everything. Even checked out airfares, hotels, rental cars, flights, made the mental list of stuff for my carry on the plane (pee pads (LOTS of em!), insulin in a freezer pack, needles, meter, lancets, litter, food, bowl... Not like being able to grab a swimsuit & towel & head to the beach!!! Last night I saddled Grayson up in a dog harness (Jack was TERRIBLY confused!) to see if he'd be a bucking bronco (!) and to get him used to it so as to avoid him running through the airport after getting loose in security! :lol: So in my mind, I'm going for it. Way more details to figure out, and of course the preliminary tests, changing insulin, and being able to take the time off from work, pet sitters for the ones left behind, that money =-making machine my dad always asked if I thought we had in the basement (if only!!!) :lol: and .. and... and... So many things spinning around in my little head!!!

The possibility of him needing less or even NO insulin is beyond comprehension, but if nothing else, to keep him from getting disfigured and extend his life - that would be worth it!

So... going out to mow shortly - the dogs yard didn't get mowed last time, and there are parts tickling Jack & Dom's undersides... so... stay tuned!

Lu
 
Hey Lu,
Just want to add my 2 cents in on your insulin switch. Klinger started on Lantus and he didn't act like he felt good at all. He was better when we switched to Prozinc, but he acts like he feels his best on Levemir. On Lantus he used to pull out his fur...not sure why, but that stopped when we switched.

Oh, for a complete list of what you need to take with you to CSU, please ask on the acro site. One of the members recently made the trip from Canada and would be able to tell you exactly what you need to pack. Another member just finished their treatment 2 weeks and drove from MN - *tip: don't go 5 miles over the speed limit in NE, you will get pulled over for speeding! :lol:

Hope the carbs from the icky dog food clears quickly. :roll:
 
Marcy & Klinger said:
Klinger started on Lantus and he didn't act like he felt good at all. He was better when we switched to Prozinc, but he acts like he feels his best on Levemir. On Lantus he used to pull out his fur...not sure why, but that stopped when we switched.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I heard that from someone else or if it was in one of your posts, but the pulling out the hair thing is scary! I've heard great things about Lev, and it appears from the AcroList that quite a few kits are on it and doing well. I perused spreadsheets for a while tonight... I think TOO MANY... as they're all spinning around in my head!

I'm looking forward to meeting with/talking to the folks at the NC State vet school. Hoping to get in to see them this week if possible. Given the large poops, which my vet confirmed is "Mega-Colon" which I'd read about, I feel pretty confident that we're going to see some of his organs enlarged. Kinda like the IAA - not surprised in the least. Now, as long as he's a candidate for the treatment, that'll be good. I've been worried about the possibility of heart issues, since he's been on fluids so long to fight ketones. Its just scary when the treatment for one conditions hampers or creates another condition!

Thanks for checking in - I should be around again tomorrow, but work-related things Thurs/Fri evenings and a fair amt of Saturday. I'll probably just extend this thread for another day.

Lu-Ann
 
Human diabetics are the ones who have said there is a sting to Lantus at higher doses.

I can confirm that my Shadoe did MUCH better on Levemir than Lantus. She was very tense and had more erratic numbers on Lantus but within days of switching back to Lev, (I did do a test to be sure it was the Lantus), she visibly relaxed when on Lev.

My Oliver was about the same on Lantus and Lev, but his curves and all numbers, actually even Shadoe's too, were more level. Levemir is the insulin that's turning out to be better for many cats, especially acros.

I would switch to Levemir.
 
It seems like Lev is the preferred option, although the Acrolist show successes on both. Good to know about the stinging & side effects!

One question for those of you who've switched insulins... where were you dosage-wise when you left the first insulin and where did you start with the new one? And what was involved in the transition? This is probably a better topic for Health, so I will pose/post this question there. I did read that in acro-cats you only needed to hold the dose (for increases) at 6 cycles rather than 10-12. Hopefully I'll take/make the time to go to FB today and do some brain-picking there! Spent a good deal of last night touching base with family/friends and bringing them up to speed. Seems like there's never enough hours in the day - and even fewer now!

It also appears that the pups and kitties had a pasta party last night. There was an empty ziplock on the floor, torn open, which I believe had egg noodles in it; and the base lazy Susan, where most of the food products are stored, was wide open and cans/boxes on the floor. I'm thinking my carb-starved boy is doing this again due to the high dose of insulin making him try to self-regulate/balance (like feeding a hypo - but at a much higher BG). I thought we'd gotten past that... but that happened last time at the reduction. Hmmm..... Made me think seriously about a lower dose again... but want to speak w/ the vet/vet school before changing dose or anything, as we will probably do the insulin change sooner, rather than later.

It may SAY Wednesday on the calendar, but it sure feels like a Monday!!! Hope it's a good one for everyone!
 
I know that I have seen on the Prozinc/PZI sites that there are guidelines when you are switching TO prozinc/pzi about dose, and how long to go without a shot (12-24 hours) when making the switch depending on which insulin you are coming off of. I would think there have got to be guidelines somewhere that advise how to switch to one of the L's.... Health or TR would probably be the best place to ask.

Carl
 
Paws crossed for the ultrasound tomorrow.

When switching from Prozinc to Lev there wouldn't be a waiting period because the PZ will be out of his system within the 12 hours. When I switched Harley to Lantus they had me start at a slightly lower dose than he was getting of PZ.
 
With the insulin resistance, it doesn't seem to make much difference HOW MUCH I give him, but I need to be smart about it. Not sure if the condition is ever unique to one insulin? Anyways, LOTS of questions for the docs tomorrow. Hope they've got plenty of time to spend with me!!!!
 
GRAYSON...why are you eating dog food? That's gross!! If we are going to be BFF you can't eat nasty stuff like that. Dogs are gross too they always have spit coming from their mouth. Grayson be a leader not a follower, whatever that means. Mom always saying stuff like that to me when she sees cats roaming the neighborhood. So I always stay in my yard & don't go anywhere else.
Don't eat dog food anymore...YUCK!! :-Q -Baxter
 
Lu,

Just starting to catch up on your Grayson. SO sorry to hear about your agro/IAA but know you are glad to figure out what to do now. What a relief in that respect. I always wonder about my Copper too. He is a mane coon and huge. But he seems to respond to the insulin right now. I might go for the tests too just to have a peace of mind.

I will be thinking of you tomorrow during the US. Can't wait to hear the results. Hope Grayson stays out of the doggie food. I was in a rush the other morning and left out the bowl of dog food too and copper crunched down. He was in the high 300's all day because of it. oh well.

Good luck tomorrow!

lori
 
My vet told me that in Vet School, on the day they discussed Acro, they were told "This is what it looks like, but you won't ever see it, so don't worry about it! Next topic..." I think she was blown away by his dx as much as I was in denial!

I know most vets aren't accustomed to clients that research and request specific tests that aren't part of the normal, everyday, standard protocol. I'm just really glad she was willing to do this and step outside of the box (or pacify me - whichever!). Sometimes we have to remind them that we REALLY DO care about our pets' well-being enough to go the extra mile!
 
I hope you have a Great Visit today and get more insight into the Acro and IAA. Good Luck!
 
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