Grayson 4/9 - 4/11 LOOKING FOR INSIGHT

Status
Not open for further replies.
Grayson & Lu

Grayson & Lu

Very Active Member
Hello friends...

A very informative day! In preparation for the vet visit, I've officially made today a vacation day, as I spent most of my time doing research, and enlightening myself with all the info that I've been accumulating since the first time I heard "Acro". There were links from several folks on the board, as well as info from the Acro/IAA/Cushings forum, and the Glucose Toxicity info. I went with my list of questions, UTI info, and two cats in hand... Grayson and Hope. Hope has continued to "leak" and have lots of frequent mini-pee pies (the size of a quarter) in the litter box. She was given an AB 2 weeks ago, and it had no effect... so I was armed w/ info/questions and her as well. She's having a C&S test sent out - culture and sensitivity to determine WHAT kind of bacteria she has, so that it can be treated properly. I'm tired of treating the symptoms... I want the source of the problem addressed!

Then to Grayson. He was SO well-behaved (and probably a little freaked from a real barky dog :o ). We looked over his numbers and patterns - or lack thereof. We discussed the dosing. Then she grabbed the Alpha Trak...475 at +10. Of course some of that was stress (barky dog, soft-side carrier, car ride, ...) but we discussed going up another whole unit. Not gradual.. at this level, that's barely a sniff more insulin. So tonight after we came home and he got settled in, I tested & shot him with 6 units. YIKES! That was hard for me to do, but maybe it'll be the number that brings him down some. He's still working on his second can of FF - but was famished initially, as he didn't have any food at lunchtime. Only some fd chicken. Can't believe I didn't think about that!

So I left a copy of all the stuff I'd printed out and highlighted, as well as his numbers with her, and she's going to do a consult w/ NC State's Vet School, and see if they can do the testing in house, or if it will be shipped to Michigan. Either way, that's the direction we're headed - to rule out Acro, IAA, Insulin resistence and Glucose Toxicity.

We also discussed his diet, and most importantly, some other options that we'll look further into if there's no reaction from the newest increase and/or the test results... the addition of R; the re-boot (which she agreed probably was NOT the best option), and last, but by no means least, a change of insulin. Marcy's Klinger went from nearly 8 units/dose of ProZinc and Lantus to Levemir, where he became regulated at less than 3 units.

So... that was today. I have to say, I was more than pleased with the time she spent with me, and the interest she showed in trying to get to the bottom of his numbers and get him moving.

Here's Grayson's day in review:
AMPS 445 RC511 Shot 5.0
Fed FF Chicken
+1 440 RC494
+5.5 354 RC 347
KETONE (blood) meter 1.5
VET VISIT +10 475
PMPS +11.5 HI RC467 Shot 6.0
Fed FF C 2.0
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 Back from the vet...

Hi Luann
First I want to addresss Hope, it kinda sounds like cystitus...those were Shakes symptoms
leaking and small urine...best thing for that is lots of tuna water and dasquin helped shakes tons!
Next..
sounds like a productive day for Grayson...good on you taking the leap and doing 6 untis
I have everything crossed that this will be the dose..if not...
I dont blame you for thinking of changing.
I am leaving for Canada but when I get back I am going to talk to my vet about going to levemir...
just an fyi...lantus has some funky side effects so I would look into levemir first, then read about lantus..IMO/
well good luck tonight with testing..I have a feelin you wont get too much sleep tonight...
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 Back from the vet...

It sounds like you had a very good visit with the vet; I hope the C&S gets you some answers about Hope's issues.

About changing the insulin, while Lantus is a great insulin, more and more people are finding that Levemir is a bit more gentle for some cats, and seems to give cats less extremes in their curves. Nadirs are also later on Lev than on Lantus.

I found that Oliver did not seem to care whether Lantus of Levemir but Shadoe did. She was much more tense and had more extremes in her numbers. Within a week of starting on Lev, she was visibly more relaxed.

They are both very good insulins, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with Lev.

In the meantime, I wish you good luck with the increase.
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 Back from the vet...

Thank you both!

The cystitis was on my radar before I took Hope in 2 weeks ago... but they said they found some bacteria and gave her an AB - I didn't pay any attention that the name of the Rx wasn't even on the bottle! Anyways, she's on her way to finding out what's causing her problems [hopefully!]. Vet said she had not used Adequan, but had used Cosequin, and Dasequin successfully to treat sterile cystitis.

I asked if other clients were using ProZinc or other insulins. She said ProZinc. If it comes to that, I'll be looking into both and seeing what's going to work for my sometimes crazy schedule. I live close to work, so most of the time I can pop in & out, but I have night meetings and presentations that limit my opportunity to get home at regular times - usually only a couple times/month, but enought that I'm guessing tight regulation is out. A 15 minute window would be REALLY difficult. I guess I failed to suggest the TID as an option. But right now, we're not seeing much of a nadir, so until we actually have drop, it's hard to know if he's cycling short.

AMPS 445 RC511 Shot 5.0
Fed FF Chicken
+1 440 RC494
+5.5 354 RC 347
KETONE (blood) meter 1.5
VET VISIT +10 475
PMPS +11.5 HI RC467 Shot 6.0
Fed FF C 2.0
+2 readings.... 416 RC446

After 2 cans of food, I'm pretty okay with those numbers! Sometimes I don't see drop from the food spike until +3 or +4. But I expect to be up for a little while yet tonight! Just to make sure!

Thanks again!
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 Back from the vet...

Gosh....6 units :shock: that really had to be hard. I am sure it's harder & more frustrating not seeing Grayson numbers not move. You really haven't had any movement in a very low time. He is probably eating so much because all the units aren't budging his numbers. He eating so much might be contributing to his numbers be high. It's just a circle all caused by FD.

As for insulin...you have to do what's best for Grayson's health & what's good for you.
I am glad you & the vet are determined to get to the bottom of this. It's nice you have vet who is on board with you.

:YMHUG:
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 Back from the vet...

Thanks! I AM very fortunate!

+4 375

I know you're lovin' your numbers about now! Nothing like having someone like me raising the curve... literally! I make everyone else's numbers look good at this point! :lol:

I haven't seen a HI reading since when - early February maybe? YIKES!!! I'm sure the vet visit was a part of that, but he's been running his PS's in the red several times lately... Looks like I'll get to sleep tonight - that's a good thing, as I'll be tied up most of tomorrow. Will come home & check at lunch, but not much else. Because of that, I was hesitant to shoot the 6 til Wednesday... but I hated to lose the effect of 1 unit on top of the .5 BAM! by waiting another 4 cycles. Argh!!!

Have a good night all -
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 Back from the vet...

Oh man,,,,6u? Or .6u? Hope it works for Grayson!

My other cat, non-diabetic, has been having some issues with spraying in house and trying to squat to pee and not much coming out. I took to vet last week and they tried to stick a needle in bladder and he wasn't having NOTHING to do with it. You would think he was being murdered or something the way he sounded. They came back in the room and said we will have to sedate him if you want us to get a sample. I said forget it! They did give me Dasuqin, but i haven't started it yet. There has been a stray cat coming in our yard lately and has battled him several times and left major scars to his ears, etc. So i think he has been extra hyped up too. He can't wait to go out in the morning and pee on all the bushes and mark his territory. So i think it is part that and part cystitis. I have been putting extra water on his food too. This has helped. I'm glad to see others have tried the Dasuquin.

Good luck and hope you find something out about Grayson soon. Hope you see some movement.
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 Back from the vet...

What a productive vet visit; kudos to your vet for working so well with you! I hope Hope gets some relief and Grayson's numbers come down with the 6u.

Get some sleep and keep us posted -

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Re: Grayson 4/10

Good aftenroon all -

So we started w/ 6.0 last night. I stayed up til +4 with him... then went to bed, as it appeared he was safe. Wasn't sure what I'd find this morning.

Last night (increased from 5.0 at AMPS)
PMPS HI (Relion Ultima registers HI for >500) Shot 6.0u
+2 416
+4 375

So here's his day so far:
AMPS 361 Shot 6.0
Fed 2.0 FF-C
+1 390
+5 312

Will slip out in an hour or two to check again. Would really like to have a good sense of just how low the limbo bar is set... but can't today. :sad: Will fill in the details as I can.

Lu
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

Oh Grayson...come on pancreas show us something. Maybe a yellow??? Yellow isnt asking to much right now. Just show us something very soon!! PLEASE!!!

:YMHUG:
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

Today was a bad day to have started (last night) a new dose, not that it appears to have had any effect, but in theory - I was not able to get back home until just a little while ago, and he was already 342 RC406. I figured I could shoot him late or shoot him early. I opted for early. By the time I get home from my meeting, maybe it will have started to kick in, and hopefully I'll have a chance to see a yellow (if that's possible) before bed. I have no idea how low he got today... which is really a hard place for me to be - you know how I love to do curves!

AMPS 361 Shot 6.0
+1 390
+5 312/325
PMPS (+10) 342; RC406 Shot 6.0
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

AMPS 361 RC 361; Shot 6.0
Fed 2 FF - C
+1 390 RC 422
+5 312/325 RC 380/355
PMPS (+10) 342; RC 406 Shot 6.0
Fed 1 FF-T
+3.75 354 RC 387
Fed .5 FF-T
+6 313 RC 313
+7 341/348 RC311
+7.5 100 mL SubQs
Fed 1 FF-T
+8 356 RC355

Interesting how at AMPS, and PM+6 & +8 the meters registered so close!

Vet called tonight before I got home from my meeting, so I didn't get a chance to speak with her. Hoping to catch her in the morning... Curious to see what she's gonna recommend! Fluids shortly and more updates tomorrow.
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

Oh darn you missed the call? Are you telling us to stayed tuned until tomorrow?
Talk about cliff hanger. This is worst then a soap opera. :roll:
My goodness.... ohmygod_smile
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

Just finished the fluids... yep, I guess it's a cliff-hanger. Kinda like "Who shot JR?" - you're from Texas - even if you don't remember it first time around, I'm sure you've seen it on reruns! :lol:

She just left a message... she had spoken w/ one of the vets at NC State, and it sounded like they recommended the re-boot... but since I didn't have the luxury of jumping up & down yelling "KETONES!!! KETONES!!!! I CAN'T AFFORD FOR HIM TO GO DKA!", I don't know that my point got across... wish we could've done a conference call/consult! Of all the days for me to be tied up w/ CUSTOMERS all day!!!

So, that's about it that I know. I'd love to do it... think I was actually the one that mentioned it first, but it still scares the !@#$ outa me! Course, now that I got my shiny new Nova Max meter and a pretty box of those $$$ strips to test ketones... and an almost full bag of SubQs, I guess I could stay on top of them... I don't know... Maybe for a day or two... not sure how I feel about anything more at this point. Maybe I'll feel better about it after I talk with her in the morning.

... Stay tuned! (Geez, sure hope I don't wake up to Bobby in the shower, and the whole past year or two is just a dream...!)
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

Re-boot? Like start over at 1 unit????

Did they do the test for Acro? I'm not sure I would do anything until I saw the results of that test.
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

Really??? You wouldn't want to wake up to Bobby in the shower??? :o Pardon me, I digress ;-) :lol:

Don't you just hate it when you miss the one REALLY important call, but you're always home for the telemarketer calls?? - ugh - (I need an emoticon for that...) I look forward to hearing the results of the tests and what happens next nailbite_smile

btw - I KNOW who shot JR! Used to rush home from the football games so I wouldn't miss it. And, while we're on the subject, it that whole 'dream thing' they did REALLY insulted my intelligence!! grr_red

Staying tuned...same bat time...same bat channel! (Those I DID watch as re-runs :smile: )
Batman-smiley.gif
 
Re: Grayson 4/9 - 4/10 Back from the vet...

Nooooo, no reboot! That's like inviting ketones and DKA.

What's the recipe again? Not enough insulin, not enough food, and infection = ketones/DKA.

No to the reboot.
If you are getting the numbers you are posting and the cat's walking around fine, no hypo, and your vet has ruled out all kinds of infections, you may want to get some R to pull down the highs, and get the 2 tests done: acro and also IAA.

Give your vet a copy of the two test sheets:
IAA Test
IGF-1 (Acro) Test
The tests will let you know if you are dealing with a healthy pancreas or not.
Be sure they have both tests done; they cost $49 and $15, and some cats are one, the other, or both.
Also, if the tests come back positive, you will need to switch to a longer lasting insulin, preferably Levemir. There are a few acro owners who can help you in that area, like Claudia and her Charlie.
If the tests are negative, I guess you will have to look around for other possible causes for the high dose.

As for tight regulation, you do NOT need to be as as tight as some people claim... 15 min or 30 min off a 12/12 schedule are not a big deal, and it's for sure alot easier than going to TID. I bet there are not many people who can do the TID routine.
 
Re: Grayson 4/11

Thanks for the links. I had them, and they were attached at the top of the info I shared w/ my vet Monday afternoon. Unfortunately, I didn't get to talk to her last night, AND she's not in today, so I'm climbing the walls!

Although I had first suggested the re-boot thing on my 3/25 post (after a work-related discussion of: do we go backward, forward, stay the same, or start over?), the thing that kept me from it was the ketones. So after much thought and some discussion... here's what I've done:

I skipped this mornings shot (not any different from a fur shot). Had I shot lower, and he stayed high, I wouldn't have been able to shoot again, so this allowed me some flexibility - and an op to see where he would go. The answer... down! Not really far down, but about the same as he's done w/ 6 units! And that's WITH food.

Tuesday night PMPS (+10) 342; RC 406 Shot 6.0
Fed 1 FF-T
+3.75 354 RC 387
Fed .5 FF-T
+6 313 RC 313
+7 341/348 RC311
+7.5 100 mL SubQs
Fed 1 FF-T
+8 356 RC355
+13.5 408 RC562
Fed FFT 1.0
+16 401
Fed FF-T .5
+17 398
+20 348
+21 351/350

Does this support the insulin resistent concept? Maybe a dose of R could help determine that?

So where does this leave me? Not sure. Not sure where I'll be going tonight... certainly welcoming opinions, thoughts & suggestions!
 
I'm thinking the insulin isn't doing anything for him....and that's probably enough insulin for a young child. No experience at all with that, but I would give the vet that info and see what happens. Wouldn't reboot though, don't think it would do a bit of good. But if the insulin hasn't been working for a while, would that explain the problems you've been having with ketones?
 
Sorry, I don't see where he went down at all. To me, the numbers look like he needs more insulin.
All the numbers are in the high 300s for the most part or worse.

ETA:
You're using a P insulin and there is no shed so you have no carryover.
To me, yes, it looks like resistance to me.... lay a sponge on a lake and you still have a lake.
Lay 6 sponges and you still have a lake. It does not look like the dose you are at is touching his needs at all.

I don't know about the P insulins; do you need to hold a dose a few days to see if it catches on?

I think by skipping a shot, you pretty much proved that there is no reason to do any sort of 'reboot', but rather you will need to be increasing the dose.
 
As for tight regulation, you do NOT need to be as as tight as some people claim... 15 min or 30 min off a 12/12 schedule are not a big deal, and it's for sure alot easier than going to TID. I bet there are not many people who can do the TID routine.
Click to expand...

Gayle,
Thank you for posting that about the "15 minute window". I was going to until I saw you'd already done so. Question - having used both, is Lev more forgiving than Lantus with regard to the 12/12 strict timing TR thing?

Carl
 
Lu, I haven't done any research on insulin resistant so I can't give you any advice on that.

I will say just from following you & Grayson everything you are doing is not working. Something is wrong.
6 units is a lot of insulin to injecting. The thought that runs through my mind & Im sure yours as well is what if....what if one night his pancreas kicks in a little & he has 6 units in his system. To me that's scary. It brings back memories if the vet telling me the story of the lady who gave her cat 5 units instead of .50. Her cat went into a coma. The vet told me he almost couldn't save her cat.

Whether it be the type of insulin.
Insulin resistant.
Something is going on. Maybe it's another health problem.

I will agree what's the difference in not giving insulin & getting the same numbers as giving insulin?
I know you are going to keep a close eye on him & test for ketones.

I just really hope you will find answers very soon & Grayson can be on the right road to recovery (& the mb..hehe). cat(2)_steam

I wish I had the answers for you. :YMHUG:
 
Jenn & Baxter said:
I know you are going to keep a close eye on him & test for ketones.

I just really hope you will find answers very soon & Grayson can be on the right road to recovery (& the mb..hehe). cat(2)_steam

I wish I had the answers for you. :YMHUG:
Click to expand...


Thanks! Me too!

Looking forward to speaking w/ the vet and understanding the recommendations (and the reasoning behind them!). My time will be pretty limited for the next several days, so I'll probably be a little sporadic. Don't be startled if we're not posting regularly. Tell Baxter he can still send Grayson some PMs! Someone's gotta hold down the fort, right? :lol:
 
Gayle,
Thank you for posting that about the "15 minute window". I was going to until I saw you'd already done so. Question - having used both, is Lev more forgiving than Lantus with regard to the 12/12 strict timing TR thing?

Carl
Click to expand...

Life has a way of happening, and quite often, it's virtually impossible to stick to the 12/12 to the minute.
I would say that both Lantus and Levemir are forgiving because they have the shed and overlap, but I prefer Levemir as it was more noticeably flexible than Lantus for my Shadoe.

I did start out trying to stick to EXACTLY 12hours, almost to the minute! I found over time that being a bit off made no real difference in the numbers.

There is one thing that holds true and that is to be sure you give shots within 15min of the BG you are calling your ps. If something comes up and 15min pass before you give a shot, then you need to test again. That's the only 15min rule I hold, because we all know that numbers can have a big change in as little as 15min.

I can't say how important it is for the P insulins as they are not as long lasting as the L insulins, but I would think you know how long the P insulin works for your cat and the fluctuation may matter more because there is no carryover?
 
Oh Lu, So sorry you are having so much trouble. The reboot thing just doesn't so logical for the ketones. Didn't the ketones go away as you went higher on the insulin? I personally would try a different insulin before the reboot. I heard from Dr. Lisa that she preferred Lantus. My vet i have now says the same thing.

I'll be trying to keep up with you and see what is happening. Can't you personally get a consult with the Vet school via phone? Just wondered.
 
owlgal said:
The reboot thing just doesn't so logical for the ketones. Didn't the ketones go away as you went higher on the insulin? I personally would try a different insulin before the reboot. ...Can't you personally get a consult with the Vet school via phone? Just wondered.
Click to expand...

Before I do anything, I need to talk to my vet and hear her out - both her thoughts and those from the vet school. I don't disagree that 6 units is astronomical. But ever since I started the climb from .2u to 2u I've been freaked out about the quantity and the speed at which we got there... so it IS highly likely that we missed the dose, making the reboot not a bad idea - provided I keep a close eye on the ketones. If you look at my spreadsheet early on, there were some nice cycles... they just ran long. At that time, I wasn't interacting w/ the vet much - and should've been. When we did discuss the long cycles, she said she would've shot into some of those numbers, as by the time the insulin kicked in, that 180 might have been 250. Now, having watched so many other PZI users shoot into numbers less than 200, with good outcomes, I'm hoping I haven't screwed up his system to the point that it's irreversible.

Will see what she has to say, hash out any concerns, and go form there. Without doing that, I'm just kinda spitting into the wind. As I've said before, my vet has been extremely helpful to me... sometimes I'm just not good at asking for help. We should've made some arrangement for a weekly or bi-weekly update/call/appt. - and I encourage others to do the same w/ their vets if they are not interacting with them. And then when I do, I know I need to have my OCD tendencies under control, as it's easy to become that neurotic pet parent.

Another consult is not out of the question - but I really need to talk to the one that I've entrusted Grayson and the others' care to for the past 15 years first. We'll see where we go from there.

Thanks for all the support!
 
Good luck when speaking with your vet; I hope you get everything straightened out and make a plan. It's so important to have vet support if possible.
Make a list of talking points; I have always found it helpful because I was forever forgetting one or two points when just winging it. Write down the answers you get so you can consult your notes later on when back home.
If you do decide to go the reboot way, please have a firm action plan in place for you to take in the event of ketones surfacing. I have no experience with ketones; I have been fortunate in that regard, but others have had horrid times with them, and ketones seem to show up quickly, so test often for ketones.

Please don't feel badly about delaying shooting numbers under 200; you erred on the side of caution and that is never a bad thing. Now that you know how YOUR cat reacts to the insulin, you can adjust how you treat.

Also, don't worry that you have done some irreversible damage in passing 'the good dose'. You will know in time what that dose should be.
 
Hey Lu-

Sneakers and I have switched to Lev- and with my school schedule there is one night that she gets her shot as much as 1 1/2 hr later- that is the good thing about the shed buildup- it releases the insulin if you don't shoot on time and when you do shoot part of that shot goes back to the shed to build that to full and the rest to Grayson- so it is very forgiving in that manner as ther eis no sudden drop- which is what PZI has in plenty.

She has been getting better numbers on the lev and I did NOT start her at .5 as suggested in Tilly's because of her ketone history. I started her at 2u which was between 50 and 75% of her PZI dose. As Sneakers did have those pesky ketones show up I do test once a day with the stix and she fluctuates from negative to a trace- when I switched her she got all the way up to small but by that time the lev kicked in and reduced the ketones to trace and then to neg.

I still need to test her for the acro and will be doing that in May.

It is a smaller board than PZI, but Vicki and Gandalf are over there and are great advice givers.

As always, it is all up to you and what you feel is necessary for you fur baby :-D .
 
Lu,

I know you will make the best decisions for Grayson. Know one knows there cat better than you. Glad you have a supportive vet that you can trust. Mine is just ok. I think i actually know more than her on FD. I mainly use them for a vampire. I don't have much choice in my area though. Glad you have found the right one.

Good luck at reboot and will be praying for you to find that "right dose" soon and those nasty ketones stay away!!

lori
 
Hi Lu,

I was talking to another board member yesterday, Harley & Pattie, and found out that her Harley is Insulin Resistant "IAA" so I asked her to stop by and take a look at Grayson's ss to see if she could add any insight. I hope she can help you out.
 
Thanks! I'll look forward to benefitting from her experienced eyes.

Grayson is doing well today. Resting quietly after exploring the house to see if the dogs, other cats or I missed a kibble somewhere. Darn! No luck! Reboot is going well so far. Not much difference in his numbers, except a string of yellows - which we haven't seen in a month! Will see where we are at the first of the week.

On another note, I just had an enlightening experience. I just tested 4 cats that pretty much stay together in one room. Someone has been going outside of one of the boxes, so I just wanted to make sure we didn't have something brewing. Their numbers were 41, 42, 74 and 43 respectively - none of which I'm accustomed to seeing! That rules that out... now, if only I knew WHICH one had something going on! The enlightening experience was realizng JUST HOW GOOD Grayson is! None of these four were terribly good bleeders, but I had to scruff all of them to hold them still long enough to test them (my guys aren't accustomed to being scruffed!). In contrast, Grayson hops up to his testing spot, lies down and waits for me to do it. Almost like Kim's Kitty, when I shot her once... she laid her shoulder down as if to say "Just get it over with. I know the drill!" Makes us really appreciate our extra sweet kids!
 
hi lu! i posted on the acro/iaa/cushing's group wall yesterday with a post that might be of interest to you - take a look. if grayson does have acro/iaa, perhaps some of my reflections on the journey of the past year will be helpful to you now. hindsight is always 20/20, you know! :lol:

there is also a new person posting there, and you might learn something from her post that is helpful for you. Have grayson's teeth been cleaned recently? i might've asked you before, if so, sorry for repeating but i don't recall.

if grayson were getting too much insulin you would be able to see it in his numbers. hopefully the 1unit increase will help him, but if not, up is the way to go.

regarding the L insulins and 12/12 shooting - the greater the dose, the less it matters on shooting 12/12. both insulins have a shed and because of their long-lasting properties (think timed release) and delayed onset (lantus onsets in a couple of hours after shot and lev in about 4 hours) the accuracy of the 12 hours becomes less and less important. it's a good goal for consistency, but i would never let the possibility of a couple of night meetings a month derail me from using them. they are very good.
 
julie & punkin said:
hi lu! i posted on the acro/iaa/cushing's group wall yesterday with a post that might be of interest to you - take a look. if grayson does have acro/iaa, perhaps some of my reflections on the journey of the past year will be helpful to you now. hindsight is always 20/20, you know! :lol:
...Have grayson's teeth been cleaned recently?
Click to expand...


Thanks Julie -

I'll check out the Acro post shortly. I'm the youngest of three kids - growing up, I always watched what my sisters got in trouble for, and did something different! It's great to benefit from others' experience... good or bad; so hindsight for you is helpful to me!

Grayson has not had a cleaning. The vet and I talked about it, but at present, there doesn't seem to be any obvious concerns. I've got 2 others that are going in soon, as they have terrible breath. The only thing I've smelled on Grayson (other than tuna breath!) has been the acetone smell when he had the moderate ketones. Otherwise, he's good.

Thanks again. I'm sure if we get to the point of changing insulins, I'll be asking you and picking everyones' brains over there, but for now I'm taking this one step at a time.

Thank you!!!

Lu-Ann
 
my understanding is that a vet can't really be sure what's going on inside a cat's mouth until they get them under anesthetia and can look - even gingivitis can be a problem. don't know about grayson, but punkin is the master of making sure no one can see in his mouth. he never says "AHHHHH." ;-) :lol: pain, inflammation and infection can all make it impossible to get a cat's BGs regulated.

here are a couple of recent spreadsheets that you might find interesting:

Vyktor was diagnosed in nov 2011, dental done on 2/24. highest dose 2.5u, starting decreasing dose on 3/12, started 2 week OTJ trial on 4/8, currently on day 7

Mikey was diagnosed nov 2011, dental done on 2/1, highest dose 3u, started decreasing dose on 2/11, started 2 week OTJ on 3/17, OTJ on 3/30.

uncontrolled diabetic cats have a lot of sugar in their system - they are very prone to tooth decay, resorption and to bladder infections because of it. it's not cheap to have their teeth cleaned, but while i'm only finding these 2 recent spreadsheets to give you (without spending 30 minutes looking!), i know there have been more.
 
Okay then! Maybe we'll get him scheduled for that... Wouldn't it be crazy if that's the source of his numbers? (and I thought it was from all the time spent at IHOP!, or changing up foods, or timing of meals...) Likewise, if there was something going on, that could've been helping w/ the ketones... hmmm... Crazy, I've been putting off replacing 2 cracked/chipped crowns for 1.5 years, and he gets to go right in! :lol: Too bad my [partial] dental insurance doesn't cover the 4-leggeds!
 
Grayson's looking a little better already, yellows are an improvement.
I thought when Henry had a dental last July we would see an improvement in numbers, with him his AM pre shots became higher, he was in low 300's and some upper 200's before dental, after dental started creeping up into 400's for AMPS but he also started having allergy/skin issues about the same time. For some cats the dental seems to really help their numbers come down, others not so much. As I recall, Henry, Shakes and Asher didn't see any big improvement in numbers after their dentals but some others have seen big improvements. ECID.
BTW, I know who shot JR, it was Kristen, Sue Ellen's sister :lol:
 
Okay then! Maybe we'll get him scheduled for that...
Click to expand...

Just an FYI - some acros suffer from excessive soft tissue growth in the throat, which can restrict the airway. For intubation, it is usually recommended that a kitten-sized tube be used. Grayson hasn't been tested for acro yet, so he might not have these problems, but you might at least warn your vet to be alert for breathing problems with the tube.
 
Marcy & Klinger said:
Okay then! Maybe we'll get him scheduled for that...
Click to expand...

Just an FYI - some acros suffer from excessive soft tissue growth in the throat, which can restrict the airway. For intubation, it is usually recommended that a kitten-sized tube be used. Grayson hasn't been tested for acro yet, so he might not have these problems, but you might at least warn your vet to be alert for breathing problems with the tube.
Click to expand...

Wow, THANK YOU!!! Not even anywhere close to my radar!
 
Lu- do you remember Sev & Kitty? They are ones who had extremely high numbers lots of blacks, changed vets & had the cleaning done. Bam 2-3 weeks later OTJ & party.
Look them up & see their SS. It's a very detailed SS. Testing almost every hour almost every day. Check it in the search box.

I think it's worthy a shot. I am doing it for Baxter just as soon as I can get some monies saved up. Baxter has to have 2 test done first $650 because he has a heart mermur.

The bacteria in the mouth & on the teeth & gums which we can't see can contribute to high BG numbers.
 
Jenn & Baxter said:
Lu- do you remember Sev & Kitty? They are ones who had extremely high numbers lots of blacks, changed vets & had the cleaning done. Bam 2-3 weeks later OTJ & party.
Look them up & see their SS. It's a very detailed SS. Testing almost every hour almost every day. Check it in the search box.

I think it's worthy a shot. I am doing it for Baxter just as soon as I can get some monies saved up. Baxter has to have 2 test done first $650 because he has a heart mermur.

The bacteria in the mouth & on the teeth & gums which we can't see can contribute to high BG numbers.
Click to expand...

Yep - Grayson's dentals are going to take priority over mine! Actually, his will be MUCH more affordable... no root canals, no precious metals... :lol:
 
Hi,
Robin asked me to stop by and take a look. Yes, get the dental. But I did look at Grayson's ss, and to me, he warrants a slight bump in his dose - even before the dental. He has not had enough lower numbers on the 3u (you are on cycle 7 at 3u) to keep him there - IMO.

Pattie
 
Hi Lu,
Grayson's ss looks a lot like Harley's when we first got started. Lots of reds - a few blacks. I was nervous as H--- to increase his dose - my vet kept telling "no don't increase" and people here kept telling me to increase. I was so torn about what to do. Every time I shot - it was like I was shooting water. Sometimes I got action, sometimes not.

Then Gayle told me to get the IAA test done. I researched it and thought - this might be worth it. I always felt like I was shooting I had to fight with my vet to get an IAA test done - they did do the acro one. Harley came back at IAA positive - 66%.

I felt so much better just knowing what was going on. Once I had that information, I knew that I should be increasing his dose. At his highest, Harley was 10u, going on to 10.25. Then the antibodies gave up and now he is down to 3u.

Doing the dental will rule that out but if numbers don't change Lu, I would definitely get the acro tests done. It will help your peace of mind.

Pattie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top