Grayson 4/16-4/17 THRU 4/21!

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Grayson & Lu

Grayson & Lu

Very Active Member
Hello everyone -

Part of this past week has been me laying low while I've done a re-boot (skipped a dose) and reduction from 6.0 to 3.0 units. Part of it has been a computer crash! I'm now up and running, and fortunately my hard drive survived. Not so lucky for the mother board and a few other incidentals... but I'm here.

Grayson did surprisingly well w/ the re-boot. Got pretty much the same numbers on NO SHOT as he was getting on 6.0 units! Interesting. By doing a no-shot, had he increased, I would've been able to shoot him if he started to climb... but instead he decreased. Then I started back w/ 3.0 units. Again, holding about the same numbers.

Been keeping a close eye on ketones... as that was my biggest concern of any kind of a reduction. Not sure where we head from here on the dose - up or down - there are good arguments for both. I do plan on having the tests done (IAA and Acro) so we can [hopefully] rule them out - and do a quick check of his teeth (I realize this isn't the same as what they can see when anesthetized), and will schedule a dental if warranted.

So regarding the whole meter thing... and now I believe it's safe to call off the men in white coats! ... I continue to recheck most of the time when I get something that doesn't look right to me. But for now, I'm pretty much back using strictly my ReliOn Ultima. Last night I did a quick borrowing of Kim's meter... ran home & tested w/ both... and got an IDENTICAL reading! Okay! She said hers has been tested against the one at her vet's office AND the NC State Vet School, and comes in very close. So for now, I'm resigned to sticking with it and just re-checking when something looks off.

Grayson is behaving more normally these days, and is not quite as ravenous/famished as he had been while on the 6 units. That's definitely a good sign. But I'm sure he'd sell his sister for a bowl full of Kitt-N-Kaboodle in a heartbeat! :lol:

Will get his SS updated tonight... still welcoming insight and advise!

Lu
 
Re: Grayson 4/16

hi lu-an!

i really want to encourage you to continue to increase his dose while you are trying to figure out other things. you know i don't use prozinc, so i can't speak to the dosing, but when i look at his ss i see a cat who needs more insulin.

there are 3 doses of 6units before you skipped, and if it were lantus i would say it could take longer to see action. again, i'm not a Prozinc expert, but my understanding is that you would see action fairly immediately with Prozinc. but with 6units not causing lower numbers, honestly, i'd go up. Renal threshold is somewhere around 200-250 depending on the cat, so ideally, all cats would be kept in BG numbers under that.

who can speak to the dosing protocol on Prozinc for you? can you seek out one of those folks for help with it?

another 2 cents worth. :YMHUG:
 
Re: Grayson 4/16

Hi Grayson...hehe...how are you? I guess you got me & Linus in trouble for going to IHop on Saturday. All because you wanted to see cat(2)_steam . I can't go anymore with you. You get me in trouble. When I get in trouble mom gets mad & takes away my bird videos.

Are you doing better? Are your numbers better? Mom said you are like a computer & got re-booted. Does it mean you are a computer cat? Are you real?

I hope you have better numbers soon.
Better go...Baxter cat(2)_steam
 
Re: Grayson 4/16

Hi Luann,
Hope all is well with Grayson
I wanted to quickly add something from SHakes reduction
When I first reduced his dose, his numbers were better and he acted better
That lasted 5 days until he started drinking more water etc...
which makes me wonder if prozinc is really out of the system in a day.....
sorry if I confused you but I wanted to through that out there for you so you can keep an eye on the symptoms
I tryly hope the reduction helps though!
 
Re: Grayson 4/16

Jenn & Baxter said:
Hi Grayson...hehe...how are you? I guess you got me & Linus in trouble for going to IHop on Saturday. All because you wanted to see cat(2)_steam . I can't go anymore with you. You get me in trouble. When I get in trouble mom gets mad & takes away my bird videos.

Are you doing better? Are your numbers better? Mom said you are like a computer & got re-booted. Does it mean you are a computer cat? Are you real?

I hope you have better numbers soon.
Better go...Baxter cat(2)_steam
Click to expand...

Hi Baxter-buddy! Mom's been tied up w/ some of the other kits, and then there was some computer thing... and it still won't work, but she said my baby pics are intact - whatever that means. Sorry about the IHOP thing... I'd hate it if you lost your birdie videos... but I know you'd rather not miss out on pancakes when we all go! ;-)

Mom said something about pinks & reds, but last night her friend came over & poked me, but told me how good I looked too! I'm not color blind - my coat is gray, so not sure what she's talking about. My coat looks handsome - I've been grooming it (especially now that I can reach all my parts!), although I'm still kinda skinny. Don't think I'm a computer cat, I don't think computer cats leave stinkies in the litter box. I sure feel better than I have, although I'm kinda hungry & mom's not home yet! Doesn't she know how important my dinner is??? Geez!!!

Oops... gotta go! cat(2)_steam
Grayson
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17

Hi Luann,
I just looked at Grayson's ss and agree with Julie - I don't see any low (or lower) numbers for several days. You really do need to get to yellows and blues (100's-200's). After 6 cycles, if you don't see any movement, then decide if you raise or lower dose. You have given 8 cycles (shots) at the 3u with not action. I would raise the dose a bit.

Pattie
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17

But I will say that I do undertand the reduction...
In looking at Grayson SS (although quickly)
he was doing positivly wonderful on one unit until , I think, he got the ketones...
just throwing some thoughts out there...
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17

Recipe for ketones:
Not enough insulin
Not enough food
Infection.

It seems some cats are ketone prone, and you see them occur at lower BG; reboots may be OK for some cats, but for others, it's dangerous. I think you will want to be on the lookout for ketones, testing regularly.

ETA:

Been keeping a close eye on ketones... as that was my biggest concern of any kind of a reduction. Not sure where we head from here on the dose - up or down - there are good arguments for both. I do plan on having the tests done (IAA and Acro) so we can [hopefully] rule them out - and do a quick check of his teeth (I realize this isn't the same as what they can see when anesthetized), and will schedule a dental if warranted.
Click to expand...
You may well need a dental but I would suggest you go with the two tests first, IGF-1 and IAA, as they are cheaper than a dental, and you need to find out the reason for the need of 6u. While you are at the vet for the blood draw for the tests, your vet can have a quick looksee at the teeth.

I had Shadoe tested, and then did the dental. Her dose DID drop from 14u down to 2.75u BUT it did not stay down.
Best that you know if you have an insulin resistant cat before you go for the dental.
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17; 4/20

Well, the good news is, the reboot/reduction has been going well. I've been keeping a close eye out for ketones, and they've not reared their ugly little heads so far. Looking over his SS, I noticed a few things I found pretty interesting. Although he still hasn't dropped much, he's holding in the pinks much the same as he did on the higher doses, but he's acting SO MUCH more normal!

Then, looking at the number of cycles he was on each dose, and the dose (realizing that testing frequency is different, but not THAT MUCH different to skew this level of analysis) here's an interesting observation:

#cycles / dose / non-pink numbers
(3) 6.0 - 1 red
(5) 5.0 -1 black; 2 reds; 1 yellow
(25) 4.5 - 12 red; 8 yellow
(1) NS - 3 reds
(13) 3.0 - 13 reds; 6 yellows!
(5) 2.0 - 1 yellow (and a LOT of peachy looking pinks yesterday!)

So, from my perspective, it looks like the 2.0 units is resulting in lower pinks (almost peach!) and no reds... in spite of one test being as late as +13.5. Planning to hold the 2 units until Sunday or Monday, run a "real" curve w/ consistent times, and talk to the vet on Monday when we draw the blood for the IAA and Acro tests. If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that the reboot/reduction was the right thing to do. Maybe he doesn't need the higher doses after all. But if one of the tests comes back positive, we'll do the increase. Had we not reduced, we probably would have missed this opportunity to try again at the lower numbers. As a friend said to me, "your cat is special - but he's not THAT unique! The vast majority of cats that go on insulin are going to respond normally to it." Hopefully he really IS just one of the "normal kids" and not needing more... but we're going to find out for certain!

I appreciate all the support and insight everyone has shared with me over the past weeks/months! I have the feeling we're on the right path... hopefully we'll know very soon!

Computer is back up and running, so maybe I won't be quite as scarce as I've been this past week!

Lu
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Please be sure that you test daily for ketones because no dose so far has begun to touch the resistance that Grayson has.
When you get the test result numbers for IGF-1 and IAA, talk to your vet about switching to Levemir, as high dose cats do best on Levemir. With PZI, you may need to go to TID to get the numbers down, so it's easier for you to just switch to a true long lasting insulin. Lantus stings at higher doses, as stated by humans on Lantus, and Levemir does not.
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Sorry Lu, I do not see an improvement here. True, you are not getting the reds but you are holding the pinks way too long. As Julie said "Renal threshold is somewhere around 200-250 depending on the cat, so ideally, all cats would be kept in BG numbers under that." I think that an increase is necessary to move Grayson into that area.

The other thing is, if Grayson is ketone prone (as Harley is), I would be testing for ketones twice a day, especially since you are on a lower dose than before. Ketones can develop quickly and you need to stay on top of them.

Pattie
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
Please be sure that you test daily for ketones because no dose so far has begun to touch the resistance that Grayson has.
When you get the test result numbers for IGF-1 and IAA, talk to your vet about switching to Levemir, as high dose cats do best on Levemir. With PZI, you may need to go to TID to get the numbers down, so it's easier for you to just switch to a true long lasting insulin. Lantus stings at higher doses, as stated by humans on Lantus, and Levemir does not.
Click to expand...

The joke at my house is that I run around chasing Grayson w/ a stick - a test strip, that is! I usually test him about 3x/day - or ANY time I see him heading to the box. When I'm home, he's usually in the room with me, so that makes it easy! He's also still getting fluids daily.

I have seriously considered the TID or even 10/10/10 hour dosing, as that seemed to be about where he's been - but now even that seems to be changing slightly with the lower dose - I'm getting better preshots again. I have the flexibility most of the time to do TID or 10 hr dosing... the only concern I've had with that, is my pet sitters when I go out of town.

The biggest concern w/ the Lantus/Lev that I have, is staying on schedule. Although most of the time I have flexibility - there are days when I still have to shoot at +10 or +13.5 ... it just can't be helped. Yesterday was one of those days. I don't know that that would be very viable on the other insulins - maybe if my 8-5 job was truly 8-5; but it's not. But we'll see. If the tests come back and we conclude that's the path we need to take, then we'll do what we gotta do!

I figure we've got another week & a half to stick it out (til we have the results of the tests), then I'll have to make those kinds of decisions - being fully armed with the results.

Thanks again for all your insight w/ him!

Lu
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

I have to comment on flexibility and Lantus/Lev. Because they have shed, a reserve they are more flexible than insulin like PZI where you just run outta gas on it, and often before the 12hrs is up for many.
With Lantus/Lev, you do have some wiggle room to be late or be early, all because of the overlap.

As for switching to TID, if you worry about meeting the 12/12, then I think the 8/8/8 would be even harder to meet.
If you switch to TID with PZI, you would have to have a pet sitter stay at your home to give the shots and test. I think people have enough issues trying to get a sitter to come twice a day, so you would pay a pretty penny and have troubles getting someone to come in to shoot at 8a/4p/midnite for example.
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Don't have any sparkling insight to add, just checking in on you and Grayson. Good job of exploring/investigating all of the possibilities/options! You're a good (if slightly obsessive sometims ;-) ) mama and will do whatever turns out to be best for Grayson (and all of the other fur babies!)

I've missed reading about Grayson as I've zipped in and out on here this week :smile:

Take care -

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Gayle Shadoe & Oliver said:
I have to comment on flexibility and Lantus/Lev. Because they have shed, a reserve they are more flexible than insulin like PZI where you just run outta gas on it, and often before the 12hrs is up for many.
With Lantus/Lev, you do have some wiggle room to be late or be early, all because of the overlap.

As for switching to TID, if you worry about meeting the 12/12, then I think the 8/8/8 would be even harder to meet.
If you switch to TID with PZI, you would have to have a pet sitter stay at your home to give the shots and test. I think people have enough issues trying to get a sitter to come twice a day, so you would pay a pretty penny and have troubles getting someone to come in to shoot at 8a/4p/midnite for example.
Click to expand...

Gayle, as you may or may not know, a few months ago I was spending a lot (too much) of time in the TR forum. Time after time, I read that there was at most a 15 minute window regarding the 12/12 shooting schedule. It was most noticeable during the days leading up to the daylight savings time change, when people would adjust their schedule by 15 minutes per cycle so that when the clocks got changed, they'd be "at" the right time for shots. But many other times, when someone would indicate that they needed to change shot times due to some time issue in their lives upcoming, they were directed to adjust either "15 minutes per cycle, or 30 minutes once per 24 hours". To me, like you said above, that seems to conflict with the presence of the "shed" which at times I thought acted like some sort of reserve gas tank. I was often confused at the shed timing thing too. At the start of treatment, it took several cycles or days to "fill the shed", but later, if a shot was an hour late, there was discussion of "the shed draining" and it always seemed like the fill-up process took a long time, while the "drain" seemed to happen immediately.
So my brain got all confused...either the shed was a reserve that allowed you to adjust times if needed, or it wasn't. I never "got it" apparently.
I guess my question is this - regarding timing of shots and a strict 12/12 schedule - is it actually a "how the shed works" issue, or it is a "protocol issue"? Is the reason there is a 15 minute max window a Lanuts thing, or is it just due to the rules laid out in the TR protocol?
Because to me, it seemed like rather than the "multiple tests per day" that people perceived were a requirement with TR, it was more the restrictions on shot timing that were the primary reason people didn't feel TR was an option in their lives. Some people just can not test every 12 hours no matter what.
Carl
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Gayle, as you may or may not know, a few months ago I was spending a lot (too much) of time in the TR forum. Time after time, I read that there was at most a 15 minute window regarding the 12/12 shooting schedule. It was most noticeable during the days leading up to the daylight savings time change, when people would adjust their schedule by 15 minutes per cycle so that when the clocks got changed, they'd be "at" the right time for shots. But many other times, when someone would indicate that they needed to change shot times due to some time issue in their lives upcoming, they were directed to adjust either "15 minutes per cycle, or 30 minutes once per 24 hours". To me, like you said above, that seems to conflict with the presence of the "shed" which at times I thought acted like some sort of reserve gas tank. I was often confused at the shed timing thing too. At the start of treatment, it took several cycles or days to "fill the shed", but later, if a shot was an hour late, there was discussion of "the shed draining" and it always seemed like the fill-up process took a long time, while the "drain" seemed to happen immediately.
So my brain got all confused...either the shed was a reserve that allowed you to adjust times if needed, or it wasn't. I never "got it" apparently.
I guess my question is this - regarding timing of shots and a strict 12/12 schedule - is it actually a "how the shed works" issue, or it is a "protocol issue"? Is the reason there is a 15 minute max window a Lanuts thing, or is it just due to the rules laid out in the TR protocol?
Because to me, it seemed like rather than the "multiple tests per day" that people perceived were a requirement with TR, it was more the restrictions on shot timing that were the primary reason people didn't feel TR was an option in their lives. Some people just can not test every 12 hours no matter what.
Click to expand...

TR forum is quite tight and inflexible in many cases. Quite often, it's not realistic with people's lives.
I believe the TR protocol is unique to this site, and loosely based on Tilly or Roomp/Rand. If you compare the 3, they have similarities.
The shed is like a reserve, from which insulin seems to be drawn, as needed. Oliver has had to skip multiple shots in a row, likely due his needs lowering, but it existed and helped if shots were late as well.

If you think of a spare tank of gas, it should help you. You may never need it but it's there, so if you have a greater need or maybe the shot will be late, you can draw from it.... maybe it's like running on fumes. Insulins like the P insulins do not have this shed, so if you need to go a little further, it's tough for you, you are outta gas, and you pushing the car to your further destination. With the L insulins, you can switch over to your reserves and it will get you where you want to go, but don't forget to fill it up later.

We know in the start, the L insulins need you to hold a dose to let the shed get created and filled, and at that point, you will see how the full dose is working. Any time you alter the dose in any way, early shot, late shot, higher or lower insulin needs, you are causing a type of ripples on the shed, and you need to let the surface smooth out again before you will see if the change has the desired effect.

I am not a firm believer in the strict, tight routine; I don't see that adjusting by 20min or having an 11/13 routine makes it impossible to regulate your cat. You have flexibility that is not followed in TR forum, but it exists. About the only thing where I remain strict is to test within 15min of shots. If you test and something comes up, and 20min pass before you get to giving the shot, I would advise to test again because alot can change in 20min.
To say that a cat MUST be tested multiple times a day in order to have better odds of OTJ is silly. That's like saying I should test twice as often and my odds would improve double. All the testing does is to show you how your cat is reacting, or not, to the insulin and dose.

Changing shot times by only 15min or however it is advised in TR is a smooth way to change, but it's not the only way that will work. You can adjust any number of ways and it's all pretty much the same. You will find alot of people in the RL forum who are getting along just as well, but with their own variations due to their lives and schedule. They don't need to test multiple times to have good results.

Granted, at the start of giving insulin, it's wise to get as much testing as you can because it's the only way you will learn the nadir and other issues your cat experiences with the insulin you are using. How else would you learn if your cat's nadir is at +4 or +9? Only by testing, but once you know your cat's style, you can definitely back off the testing. You also will know how sensitive your cat is to changes because some are oblivious to changes of 30min or more... my Oliver was a great example as I could be off the times and he was fine because of the shed.
I feel that the L insulins are more flexible and forgiving if your times are off, whereas the P insulins just run out and you are met with high numbers.
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Raced home a little while ago to give fluids so I can shoot him on schedule tonight. Missed out on all the mid-cycle shots, as I was at a 2nd grade Science Day at a local school most of the day! One of those days that I'll go home and thank my quiet furry kids for having 4 legs!!! :lol: Eight second graders every 10 minutes for three hours wears me out more than a whole house full of kitties, 2 pups and other "house guests" for an entire week! My friend's 2 labs are coming for the weekend - after mowing and picking up FF, that is! Dom & Jack will be SO excited to see their buddies!!!

More later...
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

lu-an,

you are seeing gayle, pattie and i all in agreement on what we're seeing in grayson. (someone send up a cheer - it doesn't happen often!) ;-) :lol: we're not seeing what you're seeing. his numbers are high. he's not getting enough insulin. if you think that 2u is doing it and there simply isn't enough duration, then switching to a longer-lasting insulin may be just the thing.

he needs something to change. if you want to get him tested for a high dose condition, that's great, but please don't wait for results to make changes. if you think it could be inflammation and he might need a dental, same thing. schedule those things, but in the meantime, he's sitting in high numbers that are simply hard on his body and increasing his body's resistance to insulin, whether he has iaa or not. that is glucose toxicity and it will be that much harder to move his bg the more time goes by.

carl, re your point on the timing/rigidity - i think it's one of those things that's been said for so long that it's a rule. it's not a rule. it doesn't say it anywhere in the protocol. jill recently reminded people that she shoots early and late and rarely 12/12. she also said she's never adjusted timing by 15 minute increments. we've gone overboard on it - that's what people do when they get passionate. lantus does like consistency, so it's a good idea to aim for 12/12, but nobody hits it all the time. the only thing i wouldn't do is shoot a dropping number that was low early. other than that, i think we're all trying to work on communicating more flexibility so that people don't get so put off by the timing. it is not as big a deal as it gets made out to be.

as far as testing goes, preshot tests no matter what insulin are important. for the long-lasting levemir/lantus, you want at least one test per cycle to show you how low the dose is taking the cat because dosing is based off of the low point.

people test more because it shows more info and they get hooked on the data. i can say it's silly but i'm the same way. i've tested 4 times already today and i could've done 2. it's just a personal thing, not a requirement.

The TR protocol = Tilly = Rand/Roomp. they are the same, Tilly written by one person, Rand/Roomp by a team of 2 - both using the same study data. the "TR Protocol general guidelines" on the yellow starred sticky is the protocol with some tweaking and helpful bits from experience from people here. They apply to both lev and lantus. Tilly has one clause that doesn't appear in the others and that is that if you see constant high numbers you can increase the dose after 4 shots rather than waiting at least 6. other than that - the same.
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

My head is spinning...
what is bothering me is it seems that Grayson is very similiar to Shakes
I do really understand that being over 250 is harmful...believe me...
BUT...why is it that Grayson has not seen blue since he was on .50unit?
why is is that he isgetting the same numbers on 3 units that he was on 5 units?
personally I would rather see shakes go flat at 300 than have him swing from 250 to 550...
Which is worse?
I do not know as thank goodness shakes never had the ketones...

Luann
I will be switching to Levemir soon, I think I would rather see me switch first and observe what Shakes does
I do know that ECID but the similarities are strange

I will tell you that my vet told me to start reducning shakes dose to see what happens
because the higher I go the worse he gets...
Wouldn't it be fabulous if there was a guideline book where ECIS!!
Hang in there, and hoiping for some good numbers soon!
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Gayle and Julie,
Thanks for the feedback!
carl, re your point on the timing/rigidity - i think it's one of those things that's been said for so long that it's a rule. it's not a rule. it doesn't say it anywhere in the protocol. jill recently reminded people that she shoots early and late and rarely 12/12. she also said she's never adjusted timing by 15 minute increments. we've gone overboard on it - that's what people do when they get passionate. lantus does like consistency, so it's a good idea to aim for 12/12, but nobody hits it all the time. the only thing i wouldn't do is shoot a dropping number that was low early. other than that, i think we're all trying to work on communicating more flexibility so that people don't get so put off by the timing. it is not as big a deal as it gets made out to be.
Click to expand...

I am happy to read that Jill has reminded people of that. I can certainly understand the "passionate" angle. I think we all are, otherwise we wouldn't be here. If people are put off, whether due to perceived inflexibility or for any other reason, that's a bad thing, because it's the kitties that suffer in the long run.

as far as testing goes, preshot tests no matter what insulin are important. for the long-lasting levemir/lantus, you want at least one test per cycle to show you how low the dose is taking the cat because dosing is based off of the low point.
Click to expand...

I read this a lot, but I would like to point out that the mid-cycle tests are just as important with Prozinc/PZI, although I don't think that many "non P users" realize that. In fact, I'd say that the nadir tests for the P's are just as, if not more, important than with the L's. I understand that with the L's, the nadir is very important in determining the dose. Well, with Prozinc/PZI, it is the difference between the Preshot numbers and the nadir that determine the dose. Many people appear to think that P doses are based on the preshot numbers, but that isn't quite right. Only by knowing how much drop you get to nadir can you figure out if the dose is too high or too low. It basically tells you how much bang you are getting for your buck. If the curve isn't right, then the dose isn't right.

Again, thanks for the feedback everyone.
Carl
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

i don't know enough about how Prozinc etc work - so i try not to comment about the dosing on them - the L's, i understand.
 
Re: Grayson 4/16-4/17 AND 4/20!

Well, this was a fascinating read. Lots of information here my head is spinning - all I can say is here's hoping Grayson sees lower numbers and hooray for all you passionate people out there offering up advice - it's truly inspiring.
 
Happy Saturday all -

WOW! I never expected Grayson to be in the midst of such controversy/disagreement! So three vets - including the one that dosed him - tell me the 6 units was too much - reduce to 1 unit, while those on other insulins say increase, and everyone else (including me) have/has our heads spinning!

The one thing I know is that Grayson is doing better on 2 units than he was on 6 or 5 or 4.5 - which he held since March 25th. After the reduction to 3 units for 11 cycles, then 2 units for 8 cycles so far, he's acting normal. He's grooming, he's resting, he's playing, he's popping Jack. He doesn't make me insane about feeding him, and he's not eatting me out of house & home, although he still has a very good appetite. And the ketones have stayed away.

As retentive as I usually am about testing him, I haven't been able to get as many mid-cycle readings this past few days, so I really don't know how low he's gone. But I DO know that his preshot is almost always considerably lower than it was on the higher doses. In some cases over 100 points lower. That's GOT to be worth something!

So I wait 2 more days til the tests are run, and we take an initial gander at his teeth... and maybe reduce one more time down to 1u while we wait for results, and see if we can't get those blues back that Denise pointed out haven't shown up since we were on doses <.5u - in over 2 months! When you look at his spreadsheet, that's where we saw action - be it the dance marathons, or the blue and even green numbers!

So maybe, just maybe, before jumping ship, I need to see if maybe the vets are correct, and that he'll respond to the lower dose that he once responded to. If I don't try it now, when WILL it be a better time?

Once we have results, and know for certain if we're dealing with one of these conditions, then we can move forward accordingly. And if we conclude that, like some others, ProZinc is not working for him, then we'll try R and/or one of the Ls. It's not that I'm opposed to any of the options, they were all on my radar from the beginning of the discussions about his flatness.

So in the meantime, please be patient with me... I don't move too quickly. Some people call it procrastination, I call it planning... as everything that I've done hastily in the past, I've regretted... trying NOT to make that mistake again - and expect a different result!

Thanks,
Lu-Ann
 
Lu
As is always the case, you hold the syringe. You have grayson right in front of you. All we have is numbers on a spreadsheet.
I always try to tell people to trust their gut. I trust your's, and look forward to hearing the test results.
Carl
 
Trust your gut...
If he is acting better, than I say you should stick with it and give it a try!
Good luck!
 
Saturday, April 21
AMPS 331; shot 2.0 units
+1 339
+2 313
+3.3 305
(meeting for work)
+5.25 295
+7 318
100 mL SubQs
+9 325
+11 290 (effect of the fluids)
PMPS 343; shot 2.0 units
+2 332

The biggest change I've seen from this new vial (neuvile) is the reduction in the food spike. Usually I'd still be seeing a 40 point spike by now... and we're consistently getting +2 and +3 readings LESS than the preshot! I'm liking it! Not as much of a drop today as I've been getting. Maybe I'll be able to get some mid-cycle numbers tonight...
 
i always trust the judgment of the person who is there. all i'm looking at is numbers - you see how grayson feels and behaves, and those things are worth a lot. a cat is definitely more than the numbers!

and the really great thing with FD, if you change your mind you still get yet another chance to do it again! :lol:

i also understand about wanting to work through the decision and planning, and just want you to know that whatever you decide, i'll support you in it. he's your kitter and there is no one here that has his best interest more at heart than you, Lu! as you work through these options, hopefully one path will become clearly the right one and you'll know which way to go.
 
Thank you for saying that. I felt like I was being inconsiderate NOT following your's and others' advice after I asked for it. Right now, I feel like I need to get input from all possible angles, review all of it, and then decide which path to take.

I usually have to look beyond the present, thinking three steps down the list, and plan accordingly. I think that comes from 20 years of owning an old house - everything you want to do is contingent on something else being done first (as well as done RIGHT!)! I've paid dearly for a couple of things I've hired done that I didn't think through first... ultimately costing me TWICE as much by the time I RE-did it (after having thought it through/researched/etc.). The other day, a friend offered to help me w/ some landscaping projects. What she didn't realize is that first the roof has to be removed/replaced, and shingles will land where the beds are; then some repairs will be made to the porch, again, where anything there would be trampled and scaffolding placed over the top of it. The remaining shrubs will be removed before/during these things, then a drain line put underground to feed the downspouts to the pipe that takes the water from the front of my house, and then FINALLY the beds can be redone. But none of these things could happen until after the water line from the meter was replaced (I did that recently). So, I kinda look at FD the same way... one step at a time, with respect for what may be ahead.

Seems like every time I jump into a project (of ANY sort), something else happens that puts the brakes on. For now, I feel like I need to rule out all the things, like the missed lower dose, the IAA/Acro, which will then shine some light on which direction to go from there.

Thanks again for ALL your insight - AND your support! Even if it doesn't appear that I'm taking it (at least for right now), I'm not ruling any of it out! Thank you all!!!

Lu-Ann
 
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