Gramps is HOME..... Quick qtn.....

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Catlady38

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Goodevening my new friends.... Am so happy to have you!!!! thank you for being so helpful...

I forgot to ask a serious qtn..... When I brought Gramps home, set him up with his food, he wouldn't eat. I know this is happening because he is stressed a bit and scared. he is on 5 units of Prozinc.... If he doesn't eat, should we still give him his insulin? Unfortunately, I am waiting for the Glucometer, so I cannot test his BG. he vet said to not check his BG at all, just give him 5 units twice daily..... <( of course, that's ridiculous to me.....

they also suggested I Do Not switch him to just wet, because when they tried he got BLoody Diahhrea, and think dues to dental, FIV, his system is in overload.... o I am going to see if I can get him into my vet Monday or Tuesday and get his teeth done.
Thanks Tracy
 
Hey there! It's Jennifer ( this is me on FDMB) so happy to see you here. I will look for your posts and make sure we give you all the TLC you and Gramps need! Isn't he getting all teeth removed???
 
Catlady38 said:
...I forgot to ask a serious qtn..... When I brought Gramps home, set him up with his food, he wouldn't eat. I know this is happening because he is stressed a bit and scared. he is on 5 units of Prozinc.... If he doesn't eat, should we still give him his insulin? Unfortunately, I am waiting for the Glucometer, so I cannot test his BG. he vet said to not check his BG at all, just give him 5 units twice daily..... <( of course, that's ridiculous to me.....

they also suggested I Do Not switch him to just wet, because when they tried he got BLoody Diahhrea, and think dues to dental, FIV, his system is in overload.... o I am going to see if I can get him into my vet Monday or Tuesday and get his teeth done.
Thanks Tracy
Click to expand...

Welcome to our new home away from home!

My vet suggested 2 units of Prozinc to start with, but I did the food change first for about a week, then we started at 1 unit. You are right to think 5 units is ridiculous, as is shooting blindly. Wait until the meter comes to start the insulin, if you haven't already shot yet. Transition him to canned - something easy like Fancy Feast Classic Chicken or Turkey/Giblets. There are a bunch of others on Janet & Binky's list - those are two I buy almost exclusively. I think they're 3 carbs each - which give Grayson about a 30 point spike.

More to come - just wanted to head you off if you were about to shoot.
 
Continued...

The canned food will be much easier for him - particularly if he's got teeth issues. He won't be able to gum kibble, so a change is definitely in order - in addition to the fact that some kitties only need the food change to be diet-controlled diabetics!

The DM wet (from what I've read) is better than the DM dry, but still not as good as other commercial foods available w/ less than 5% carb content. ...and then there that advantage of going to an all night grocery store or WalMart to buy it. I invariably think about something I need at the vet's office 15 minutes after they've closed!

You'll find several very experienced Prozinc folks on the PZI forum, so be sure to make any dosing questions, etc there next time.

You didn't say what his numbers were... and what time of day, in relation to his last meal. These are very important details for anyone to know. Particularly, the number. When Grayson first started, his BG was 451. We started on 1 unit, and he didn't drop so much as he danced marathons all night and day. His 12 hour dose lasted as long as 24... which is a sign of too much insulin, so we reduced. Later he had a ketone scare, so we've since increased. Most cats on Prozinc start out at 1 or 2 units. If you're still feeding dry, you'll probably choose the 2, until you can be home to check regularly when changing the diet. That's why it's helpful to change BEFORE starting the insulin if you can. Grayson went cold turkey, although he managed to sneak some from the other kitties and scavenge, which continued to skew his numbers.

The rule of thumb here is "Start Low and Go Slow". That way you can gradually see the changes from the insulin, and adjust accordingly... without missing the correct dose - which appears to be almost always less than 2 units, based on most peoples spreadsheets.

Much to say about setting up a spreadsheet, reading all the info (it's a LOT to consume - so spread it out). But get on the spreadsheet and get it linked soon, so you can post numbers and benefit from the collective wisdom and experience from the board.

Lastly, if you're not already doing it, CHECK FOR KETONES!!! Especially when numbers are high, they are at risk for DKA - which can be critical if not caught early. Ketone test strips are held in the urine stream (or collect on a spoon or in an empty litter box). Dip them, they change color - there's a color guide on the bottle that tells you what they are from Negative, Trace, Small Moderate and Large. Anything more than TRACE is an emergency and needs attention. Test strips come in a $6 bottle at Wnnnnnnnnnnnnalmart or $10 bottle at Walgreens for 50 strips. I test at least once a day, but once is probably okay if you don't have a higher reading. Grayson has had a couple of scares - so I'm rabid about doing them. I see it as a $6 bottle of insurance! A proactive thing I can do for him.

The dental infections could be skewing your BG readings, so it might be wise to address the dentals sooner rather than later... but there are others here who can speak to that, as I've not dealt with it on Grayson (my only sugar baby). And my FIV cats are not diabetic, so I've only dealt with them needing 3x the antibiotics to heal from any kind of thing, so be prepared for that possibility.

Good luck! Keep us tuned in to Gramps' progress. Great name, BTW!!
 
Update on GRAMPS...

Due to waiting on my car, I couldn't get to Waterbury to test his BG, so I spoke to my bf and my vet. His BG is all over the place rt know, and over300 So I am determined to get this under control... Getting his teeth done ASAP. I was told he did not eat last night and very little this am. Until I heard from the St I didn't give insulin... So finally the vet got back to me and said if he is not eating much, give 2 units and if eating most or all his food, 5 unit.....

:-D :lol:

I am happy to report he wouldn't eat his Purina DM wet but a bit of KD dry. I told my bf to give him Friskies salmon or checked, o Brady, only pâté... he gave him a quarter can. He ate and an hour later he gave him 5 units.... he is doing fine.

So my qtn is this, do Test him, before I feed, then see how low his BG goes from FFeast. He was getting bloody poop when they gave KD wet, so they switched. What I am mostly confused about is figuring out how much I should give him (insulin) , compared to his BG numbers????
thanks Tracy
 
Hi and welcome to you and Gramps to the FDMB!

For now, don't worry too much about how much to shoot based on the numbers. You do not yet have enough BG information to adjust the dose based on every reading. Some people can do that, but not until you've been testing and dosing for many weeks and the cat is regulated to some extent.
At the start of treatment, you will want the dose to be constant (and low) so that you can collect the data you need to evaluate what the dose is doing. We all do that with a spreadsheet, and the instructions for setting one up can be found here:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

As far as the dose goes....
That 5u starting dose is really, really high. We advocate a "start low, go slow" approach, and you can read about that here. It's a lot of reading, but basically we try to get people to start at a dose no higher than 1u, twice a day, 12 hours between shots. And to home test before each and every shot, collect the data in a spreadsheet, and hold that dose for a few days so that you can see what it does over the course of several cycles.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/SLGS.html

The sequence of events at shot time - you test the BG, then feed him, and then give him the insulin. Some people give the shot while kitty is eating and they don't even notice the shot.
Your vet telling you to reduce the insulin if he isn't eating well is logical advice. The food raises his BG, while the insulin lowers it. They sort of duel all day long! But "2u if he isn't eaing, and 5u if he is"??? That's not great advice, it's way too much of a variable. What we would normally tell you is that if kitty isn't eating well, you need to figure out why that is. He could be suffering from something that isn't directly related to the diabetes. He could be in pain from an infection, he could be having an adverse reaction to the food, he could be constipated, all sorts of reasons for loss of appetite. It can be as simple as he doesn't like what's on the menu for that meal. But just because he eats well, it's crazy to more than double his dose of insulin. The food won't raise his BG THAT much.

If possible, can you ask the vet how he determined that 5 units was a logical starting dose? Most cats are started at 1u or less, but there are good reasons (other conditions besides just diabetes) that might suggest the vet start higher than 1u twice a day. I'm thinking the starting dose is way too high, and needs to be significantly cut back, but hopefully your vet will have some logical reason for a higher than 1u starting dose so we can all understand it.

Carl in SC
 
Thank u all for your responses.... What happened was when he was brought into BAH, they did a BG and it was 537. They immediately started him on a unit of Prozincand over the period of 44 days of caring for him( the vet), they had to continually raise his amount of insulin because his BG was all over the place... I do have the vets medical records of his 44 day stay at BAH and his numbers where all over the place.... I a hoping after his teeth are extracted,it will go down drastically.
To answer the qtn about his NOT eating..... The only night he did not eat was the night I brought him home. he was nervous and very scared, but after much love and affection, the next afternoon, he ate very well. The vet gave us Purina DM wet and he ate it a couple days andnow will NOT eat it.... Sowe are feeding him Purina pro plan.... And a little bit of kibble....andheactually does eat the kibble.... Gums it I guess.
I always thought 5 units was way to much so we reduced the dose to 4 units every 12 hours, INLESS his BG is really high.... Thanks so much
 
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