got the 300s blues...

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donnahc

donnahc

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Mornin kids: ~O) ~O) ~O)
Fighting depression enough to post that we are still in the 300’s. Maybe I’m blind but I can’t see much improvement, except we haven’t had a 400 for a couple days (touch wood, anti jinx).

So, I don’t know what else to do but raise. We are up to a fat 1.4 as of this morning. Going up painfully slow to try to avoid the rebound problem again that keeps setting us back.

Wish I had better news to report, but this is it. He did so well for awhile so I guess I got spoiled. Back to the trenches.
 
So sorry you have the 300's blues and asher is not moving. I know all too well the painfully slow days of moving up in dose. It's very frustrating! But like you said, at least there are no 400's. That's good! Small improvement!

Hang in there! There is always another 12hrs around the corner.

Lori
 
Good Luck! It is so frustrating-- after the dental and the freestyle meter, nothing makes sense.

Come on Coverboy!
 
I am so osrry Donna,
Hang in there,
I know how you feel, we are still in the 400's with
his neuropathy coming back...DOes not make any sense~
 
Donna,
These numbers sound so much like Alex. We'll have 2 or 3 good days and then we have 300s and 400s.
Last night's pmps was 280--cool!
This morning's amps was 427-- :?:

I know we say to collect data, but sometimes data doesn't answer questions either.
Hang in there. I don't post a lot these days, but I think about you and Asher.
 
Evenin kids:

Here’s our basic curve today: 348, 425, 327. That seems fairly inverse to me. We have shot 1.4 last night and this morning. We were on our way up again and were going to increase tonight, until we looked at the day overall.

As you know we dropped him down twice, recently to 1.2 and got 300s, so figured we’d have to raise. Is it within the realm of possibility that 1.2 is too much? I can’t fathom that, but I really don’t know what to do here. I am so scared he has been this high now for over a week. I was up all last night worrying about it. Tom didn’t tell me about the 425 mid day number until I got home tonight for fear I’d freak.

SS is current.....
 
That looks inverse. Maybe since his insulin needs have changed so much after the dental and the fiasco with the Freestyle meter, a .01 increase or decrease does make a huge difference in his BGs, like Cassie.
Hang in there! Everyday is another day and a new start.
 
I am sticking with my thoughts earlier in the week! Today is not close to the results on the 1.2.

I know NOTHING about little increments or decreases making an impact--Kitty just guzzels the insulin, but, I had Chewy on .5 and increased to 1 unit and got decent downward curves on both. I increased him to 1.2, thinking he needed more to drive the numbers down-- and he went flat and pink. I decreased back to 1 unit last night and he went back into the yellows. I know ECID, but.....

Good Luck! I agree it is hard to imagine that he needs less-- and maybe he doesn't, but the increases don't look good to me!
 
Hi Donna,

I'm sorry you are struggling with Asher.

The only way to find out if the 1.4u is too much insulin, which it looks like it is, would be to drop down to 1 unit or less and see where he goes. Test for ketones.

You've tried increasing and it doesn't seem to be working. So try decreasing.
 
He does have a wonky chart, Donna. The last really nice cycle was the 1.6 when he was low at pm preshot. You tried another 1.6 near then that didn't look great and then we lowered. (probably my suggestion....). Nothing since then looks too good.

I think I might try 1.5, hold it awhile (he used to like a dose held and would give you something around the 3-4 cycle) and see if things improve and if not, try 1.6 again. He is still much lower in dose than he used to be (Sue's Silver Lining). And no, 300s aren't fun, but they aren't deadly. I would do it when you will be around to monitor in case he goes low. My thinking is that even if the dose is too high and we do need to go down, he may let us know by thowing a low again. And you know how to manage any low numbers. We just don't have any other indicators from him.

I know how frustrating this is that there is no formula to figure this out. It is a matter of trying and then trying something else. In your case, at least we aren't experimenting with a new diabetic. It took you a long time to figure him out and then he stayed in the same range forever. As Robin, said, you can figure it out again. The truth is none of us really knows. We are always just suggesting, and sometimes we get lucky and are right. And often our advice is worth what you are paying for it. :mrgreen:
 
That’s what we were kind of thinking Robin, esp after this 425 today. It’s just scary. Do you guys think 1 unit? .8? We did get some yellow at 1.2 but mixed with 300s.

(I am terrified to wake up to a black number. Which we haven’t had since the day he was dx’ed)
 
And then there is that thinking Sue, 1.6 was where I was headed tonight. It was his last good run. I just don’t get then, why he looks worse at 1.4 fat than 1.2......
 
I would go to 1 unit...test for ketones and see what happens. He won't be black in the morning, but if he is you will bring him down. Black numbers aren't good, but Kitty has had her share-- if he has one, it will be okay!

Come on BOS---- it just is a dose in a different direction! And, it only last 12 hours!
 
Hah! See what I said. Robin suggest lowering. I said higher. We, truly, know no more than you, Donna. We are throwing out stuff trying to be helpful.

So first try one. Then if it doesn't work, try the other.
 
I appreciate you guys trying to be helpful. That’s what I am looking for. (also letting me know that I am in the “normal" crazy cat lady range, twitch, twitch :shock: )

Sometimes I just don’t see stuff on my own chart, and hey, my vet doesn’t know what to do either.....
 
:lol: Does that make everything clear as mud. Then go with the if this doesn't work go with the other.

I had to go back and look twice to see what I missed that Sue saw.

I'm going to stick with lowering the dose.

Edit to add: because of the inverse curve.
 
Hi Donna,
OK, here's what I see, and PLEASE everyone pipe up if you see something screwed up with this...

It looks like things started going bad at the end of January. I'm looking at the week around the 27th. Asher was giving you fits because he was going so low every day or night. You had just had a whole day where you didn't shoot because he was so low on the 25th.
So he started getting doses in the 2.4 to 2.2 range.
From the 27th thru the 7th of Feb, you only saw one pink number on doses of 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4. Then he gave you a higher pink on the 8th. You cut back to 2.0, and from that point on, his numbers went to crap. Here's what I think may have been the problem...

You shot the 2.0 regardless of PS number. His PMPS readings were blues on the 8th and 9th, and he went too low overnight, and started giving you messed up AMPS. Since then, you've been chasing his numbers, trying to figure out if the does is too high or too low. And adjusting for preshots, the sliding scale concept, which I actually think is a good idea. But maybe the scale is too fine?

Something seems to have changed inside of Asher around the first of February. Suddenly, a 2.2 unit dose started become a heck of a lot more effective, like he was helping with the insulin production some? Doses that didn't do much suddenly did too much. What is weird is that there is a 10 day period there that even when he went low, he didn't bounce high. Then something else changed, and he started bouncing from numbers that didn't cause a bounce just a week or two earlier. And his day cycles became abnormally long, while his night cycles were short and deeper curved.

Look at the 12th. Makes no sense to me. 1.65 pushed him downward for 12 hours. Then 1.0 did nothing for him that evening. I don't get it.
Look at the 19th. He dropped to 84, but only started at 127, and the next morning he bounces up to 429???? Compare that to the night of the 8th. He started at 147, dropped all the way to 48 overnight, and in the morning, he didn't care about the low. No bounce. Nice yellow AMPS. And from a higher dose? WTF Asher???

OK, I am done ranting! Here's what I think, Donna. I am thinking his "right dose" is higher than his current dose, at least short term. It looks like he went through a couple of weeks of "liver training" and was learning very nicely not to panic over the lows. But his liver seems to need remedial lessons. For the last four days, he's been pretty flat on various doses. I think I would try 1.6 and stick it out for at least 4 cycles, and then reevaluate, but I'm thinking it might need to step up again then. What I am hoping is rather than it pushing his mid-cycles too low, it will push his PS's down and keep him curving in the middle, but not too much. And hoping that whatever he had going on inside four weeks ago will kick back into gear.

I understand, this absolutely sucks for you guys. Asher was very happily going along on a consistent dose and pretty predictable numbers, then something changed. And since then it's been chaos. Meter issues, dental issues, wonky numbers, the works, all in a short time frame.
It is frustrating enough for me to look at, it must be making you and Tom crazy. Meanwhile, Asher is probably chatting with Alby saying "well I don't know what all the fuss is about, what's wrong with mom and dad?"

Hugs,
Carl
 
OK, so it took me so long to type that that everybody else beat me to it! Obviously, we all have different ideas!

Hope I haven't made the muddy water even more muddy!
 
When he was having those great cycles, like going down to 40 something or 60 something, we brought him up with food quite often. (I complained because I wasn’t sleeping, but I’d kill for that now, never satisfied ) I guess that made us think it was too much insulin so we lowered. Would it be good if we held him at 1.6, and he goes low again, that we have to bring him up with food? Or at that point I guess we’d lower dose again.

Ugh, I am making myself nutz again. Don’t know what to do.
 
Right now he is closer to 1.6, we could do that tonight, and if it sucks after four cycles, then go down to 1 unit and try that end.

I guess what scares me about going to 1 unit, if it’s wrong, it will taken even longer to get him back up, since I don’t think we should go from 1 to 1.6 in one jump.

I am desperate to see a yellow again. Will take anything under the renal threshold.
 
Well, looking at today, I see it more as flat than inverse. The numbers aren't drastically different from each other. Stupid meter variance!
Just that I guess I look at things a little different than some other people? I usually recommend a decrease when I see numbers that are too low (of course), but not too much other than that will make me likely to suggest a reduction. If I saw a few obviously inverse curves in a row, that would grab my attention. That old Dr. Lisa "look for repeatability" line changed a lot of my thinking probably. What I see lately repeating is just high numbers overall, which makes me think "increase". But like Robin and Sue and Kim and everyone else said....we're just tossing out ideas. You have the really hard job. You have to figure out if all or any of us makes sense. It is much easier to "advise" than to "decide".

Carl
 
Thank you all for spending the time to look things over and give your advice. I totally respect all of you opinions and it is a really hard job to decide.
After I had a good cry, Tom and I decided to shoot 1.6 tonight. We were closer to that and I guess the rationale is if we have to lower we can do it in one jump, and I don’t think we can do that in reverse if we’d lower tonight, then work our way back up if lowering didn’t work out. Also, so far lowering hasn’t worked, and maybe we haven’t lowered enuf, but we’ll try it this way. I didn’t have time to go back and forth in my brain any more tonight.

And all of that typing may read super crazy because my brain is positively fried. It was an awful day today without the Asher worry, so this was a bit over the top for me. Thanks for letting me be a basket case in front of you all too. :YMHUG:

We’ll keep you posted. Thanks to you ALL again.

xoxoxoxoxoxo
 
Donna, I do so understand your frustration and desperation.
If it makes you feel any better, Alex read 427 this morning, 453 this evening. I'm just too depressed about so many things to post much.

Hang in there.
 
Good Luck! I hope the 1.6 gives Asher a Great cycle!

Want to go to Vegas next week?! :lol:
 
I like your decision, and as Dr Lisa had said, you shouldnt base dose for an inverse
curve on just on time....
sorry tired so I dont know if that makes sense
hang in there! :mrgreen:
 
Hey Kim?
With all the stress and sadness among so many PZI Beans recently..... I'm thinking...... Couple cases of wine, beer, how fast can the beach house be ready for a retreat? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Carl
 
The Beach House is READY! The only problem I see is--- a couple of cases of beer and wine is not NEARLY enough! :lol: :lol:
 
WAIT FOR ME!!! let me go get my towel and I am ready to go...
oh **** wait, I forgot the wine!!
ok got it lets go!!!!
 
Kim
The wine was for you. The beer was for me. It's a "bring your own case" party. I was just going to spring for yours since you're supplying the roof and the view!

I wonder if I can ride an ATV from here to there without getting arrested.....

Carl
 
I’m all for a beach party. I can have my drinks packed in a few minutes :) drinking09
I think most of us could use the stress relief!!!

Thank you all again for being awesome! party_cat drinking24 party_cat drinking24
 
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