Goo and diabetes

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Melissa bijit

Melissa bijit

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Goo is 6 years old and admittedly obese. Never any glucose issues until this February. He developed pancreatitis and shortly after diagnosed with diabetes, glucose was 475. Started on ProZinc, 2 units twice a day. He will be stable for awhile then I start seeing more drinking and huge urine output. He is now up to 8 units twice a day. When diagnosed I started him on purina vetrinaryrx dm food. Based on readings here and advice, I changed last week to a very low carb healthy dry food, Orijen biologically appropriate cat food. He eats maybe 1/2 can per day iams pate chicken for kittens. He does not like canned food as a rule. But already back to huge water and urine. I am so frustrated. For one thing insulin cost could get to be problematic. My vet has ensured I am injecting correctly and memtioned insulin resistant diabetes. Help!!
 
Are you testing at home? We have found that levels at the vet can be a hundred or more points higher than at home. Then doses are increased on that data, which may not be accurate. If you are testing, please post some of the numbers you get preshot and at nadir (the lowest point usually 5-7 hours after the shot) That data can be very helpful to us. If you are not testing at home, we can teach you how.

The second idea I'd have is to try to find a low carb wet food he will eat. Have you seen this site by a vet - www.catinfo.org. She has great ideas for transitioning difficult cats, and she has a great food chart. BUT be testing first. Changing the diet can lower numbers by 100 points or more so you need to be ready to adjust doses based on home numbers.

There are conditions that require high doses of insulin and it is possible that your kitty has one of those. But I would make a few changes first.
 
Hi Melissa and Goo, welcome! Sorry you're having problems. Are you home testing Goo? That's the only way to see how the insulin is working. It's very easy to do and we'll be glad to help you learn. All you'll need is a human glucometer that can be bought at any pharmacy. Many of us use the Relion confirm from Walmart. If you can start that and set up a spreadsheet, we will be better able to help you find a dose that will help Goo feel better. If you need help setting up the spreadsheet, let us know and so done will help you.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
 
Hi Melissa
well, 8 units twice a day is a whole lot of prozinc. For comparison, most cats here are on 1-2 units.
the fact that he is still peeing and drinking water in large amounts point to him not being regulated
here are some questions
1) are you home testing his blood sugar -or is the vet doing the testing? please tell us how his dose ended up getting increased to 8 units? What are his sugar levels? Everyone here does home testing before each shot of insulin and 1-2 times in between shots and we put the data onto a spreadsheet - the member here can look at the spreadsheet and give some advice about dosages
2) food - sounds like you've read here that a low carb wet food is quite essential for the kitties - the most popular is fancy feast classics (pates) There are a few dry foods that are low enough in carbs to be okay for the sugar cats - the best is probably Young Again Zero Carb (you can only order online ) Evo is another one but it raises Murphy's sugar, two that I use is Epigen 90 from Wysong and a semi-moist food from waggers
there's a lot to take in, but we're all here to help
 
My vet has been making house calls for me, she comes several hours after insulin given and usually in the low 300's. One day she came back several hours later and was still in low 300's. When he had pancreatitis, he quit eating and nearly developed hepatic lipidoses. He would not eat but luckily let me spoon fed him, I did that for a couple of weeks! I have tried multiple canned foods and he refuses. I was hoping this new dry food would be low carb enough. I am getting panicky, the insulin is about $110 every 3-4 weeks, can't do this long term. But Goo is my heart!!!
 
Hi Melissa - my cat has chronic pancreatitis and developed hepatic lipidosis a few years back - that seemed to start all of this - afterwards, my cat developed terrible food aversions to everything he had been eating and would only eat fancy feast kibble which is like eating doritos all the time - I know how difficult it is - well, he has to eat - Where do you live?
 
We started at 2 units and a couple weeks later went up when glucose was still upper 300's. Glucose initially came down to low 200's but about month later noticed drinking a lot and big urine. Adjusted up to 6, same thing happened about month later, now up to 8. He's very happy and quite full of himself, doesn't seem to feel bad at all
 
Hi Melissa and Goo, welcome!
Hope you can find Goo some lowcarb wet food what he likes because it's the best for kitties to eat when they get the diagnose.
I'm not sure what kind of brands are available but I hear a lot of people recommend fancy feast. Did you already try to give that to Goo?
 
It could be that the dose was increased too rapidly - usually we increase in 0.25 or -.5 unit increments - not a whole unit at a time
getting a lower carb food could make a significant difference - can you go to a Petsmart or Petco and get several different cans of the low carb food recommended in the catinfo website - or just pick up different flavors of fancy feast classic.
Murphy has what is called triaditis - inflammation of the liver, pancreatitis, dilated bile duct and IBD - has Goo had an ultrasound I just ask because Murphy always got sick with fancy feast and other wet food brands like friskies - after he got the IBD diagnosis, I looked at the ibdkitties.net website and found out several additives in wet food can aggravate the condition (caraggeen and the various gums)
 
Yes, the only canned food he will eat is iams pate chucken for kittens. And with that, maybe 1/3 can morning and evening, can't get him to eat anymore. Tried slowly adding tiny bits other canned food but he won't be fooled...and just walks away!
 
Oh, I so sympathize - one thing I do with Murphy is to go to where he is every half hour or so and offer him the wet food - he usually eats about 1 tsp at a time and after several hours, does end up eating about 3 oz. but it's not enough If you are in the US, I would definitely call Young Again on Monday - they will send you free samples The good thing about Young Again is that is it very high in calories (600 per cup) so they don't have to eat much
Evo is high in calories as well - you can buy a 2lb bag in pet food stores since he had fatty liver, you need to get more calories into him - is he also on cerenia for pancreatitis, zolfran for nausea and cyproheptadine for appetite stimulation. Any or all of these could help him eat if he has residual pancreatitis
 
I looked up the Iams kitten, it's 10 carbs, not bad, but it would be better if you could get him under that. I'm glad your vet is coming by to test Goo, but it would be better if you could start doing it yourself. You can get a test before you shoot and a few tests during the cycle that will tell us how well the insulin is working.
 
Hi Melissa and Goo!

Trust me, if anyone gets your food woes, it's Carol! She's been through a lot with Murphy...and she keeps on trucking! I hope to be half the kitty mom she is. Thank heavens I never dealt with that...I know how stressful it's got to be.

Well I see everyone has advocated home testing. But I'm going to go ahead and say it too anyway: home testing is key. This way you don't have to worry about vet calls (which I imagine are expensive). Plus, I don't know about Goo, but my kitties are social only with me. The vet coming by would stress them out...raising their BG numbers. It's really not hard to do it yourself. Would you be willing to learn? We all learned via the net and we've taught plenty of folks via the net too. There's tons of videos to watch, tons of tips we can give, and most people are pretty adept at it really fast.

Food: Goo has to eat. I know Carol has given you some tips and I'm sure she can share plenty more! She's got the info on that. In the end, feed what he will eat. But also work on transitioning...it can take awhile. But if you could get him on a low carb wet food, it would really help.

What other questions do y ou have for us? Please ask as many as you can think of!

One final thing to remember: Breathe. You're not alone in this.
 
I would definitely be willing to home test. I have to get this under control, I can't afford the current insulin cost long term. Plus I hate to see him so thirsty , that has to make him uncomfortable. My biggest issue is feeding- I lost one cat to feline hepatic lipidoses and am very paranoid now. That's one reason I caught Goos pancreatitis early. And when he wouldn't eat, I literally held him and spoon fed him for almost two weeks (he wouldn't eat on his own but didn't fight me spoon feeding him). I just got him transitioned to a new dry food by Orijen -cat and kitten biologically appropriate cat food. It is a low carb, low glycemic food, would you mind looking at the website? i thought I was seeing difference in his water and urine but not consistently but it's only been a week. He rejects all canned food except iams pate chicken and doesn't eat enough of that to live. I have stopped treats. I will get some fancy feast classic and try again, I appreciate the suggestion to try frequently. Let me know your thoughts please about this Orijen? Thanks so much!!!!
 
When you transition to the wet, do it very slowly. Try warming it and crumbling some of the dry on top. Do you have a glucose meter?
 
Orijen is a brand we also have in the netherlands and it only contains 9,35% carbs so for now if he doesn't want wetfood (what is lower in carbs) this will be fine.
 
Checked the Orijen website. There are peas and beans-carbs, but they are far down the list. We'll have to contact the company for exact numbers. In the meantime, until you are testing, don't change the way you feed.
 
Sharon14 said:
Checked the Orijen website. There are peas and beans-carbs, but they are far down the list. We'll have to contact the company for exact numbers. In the meantime, until you are testing, don't change the way you feed.
Click to expand...
I've looked it up, we (dutch forum) have a sheet with all the food that is available in the Netherlands, dry and wet, with how much % carbs are in there. This one from Orijen contains 9.35% carbs. So it's considered Low Carbs right..?
 
Sounds good, Ruby. I noticed there were several varieties on the Orijen website. Which one are you using Melissa?
 
Melissa, glad you're willing to learn to home test! It will really save you money, plus give you a lot more control. If you're like me at all, you need to have control of everything (my BF says I have control issues ha!).

First things first: meters. You can use a human meter. No need to buy the expensive pet meter vets sell. Many of us use the relion brand from Walmart. I used the relion confirm. Didn't require too much blood and the strips weren't overly expensive. You don't have to use that brand, just a lot of folks do. When you buy the meter you want strips to match it (they should be right there by the meter) and lancets. We suggest getting the lancets for alternate testing sites at first...I think they are like 26 gauge? They should say alternate test site on them. If not, ask the pharmacist for them. You can move to smaller lancets over time, but it's easier to start with the bigger ones. Also, you may want to get some neosporin (gel, not cream) with pain relief. I found it helped the blood drop bead up and I at least comforted myself thinking it was helping stave off infection. Some folks use vaseline. Some use nothing. I think something would be helpful, at least at first.

While you're working on getting your supplies together, I suggest finding a place to test. I had a towel I kept in the kitchen. I put it on the floor by the fridge. Gypsy quickly learned the routine and would go there when she heard the box of lancets rattle. I think it might be easier if they have a "place" they always tests since they know what to expect. Take Goo there a few times a day, rub his ears, pet his head, and then give him a treat. Get him used to having his head touched in this spot and then a treat and that will help.

Does Goo like having his head touched? Gypsy loved it. Most people use something to warm kitties ears to get the blood flowing. I just rubbed her ears, but some people use a pill bottle filled with warm (not hot!) water or a rice sock (baby sock filled with rice) that they warmed in the microwave. Gave them something to hold against the ears to warm up and something to push against for the lancet. I just used a cotton ball or my fingers (it was just easier for me).

I don't want to overwhelm you and that's an awful lot. If you want to watch some videos while getting supplies, I would. Here's one I've watched some of:

It's really not hard. I know it seems it, and the first few times can be tough (tougher on you usually!), but you'll quickly get the hang of it. And it will give you a sense of control, plus allow us to really help. We can definitely help you too! once you gather the supplies, let us know and we can walk you through this.

Please ask any questions you have! I know that was a lot of info at once.
 
HI Melissa, how are you and Goo doing? did you let all the info sink in? :p
We are all here for you if you need some info/advice/tips!
Don't hesitate to ask questions.:bighug:
 
When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter general location (city and state/province) any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.

Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.
 
Sorry I didn't update yesterday. So far Goo not interested in canned foods. I bought several types Fancy Feast yesterday and am going to try on regular basis. My vet is coming this morning for glucose check, praying better since started the Orijin. I checked availability of the relion confirm meter and supplies at my local wal-mart and will pick them up next few days. I am going to practice sticking him this morning when vet here. One thing I notice which is interesting.. I work from home. Goos food and water in bathroom connected to my office. On weekends he drinks far less water, I wonder why? I am very appreciative all this help!!!! Will update my signature as suggested
 
Yes and I also tried mixing a tiny bit in with canned food he likes but he immediately caught on and wouldn't eat it. My vet had to reschedule for tomorrow, I am ready to try to stick him!
 
Have you seen Dr. Lisa's transitioning tips? If y ou check catinfo.org, she has a lot of good tips for helping transition dry food addicts. It'll take some time...we totally get that! We've seen lots of kitties here who just don't want to eat wet food. I was so lucky that my cats took to wet food like I'd been starving them!

I'm excited that you're getting ready to start testing! It's great that your vet is coming by and can hopefully help you get started. One thing I want to mention: don't get frustrated. For the first week or two, I was so frustrated and sure that I'd never be able to do it that I cried a few times! But it got easier for me AND Gypsy. Just remember the bribes...uh...treats...and it'll become routine. Also, remember a treat for you! A glass of wine is always a good choice. ;)
 
Well I thought we were doing better, Goo has been letting me mix fancy feast classic with the iams. But my vet came by this morning and his blood sugar was 461 one and a half hours after insulin. Soo frustrated! We decided to switch insulin, he is starting Lantus 2 units twice a day in the morning. She is coming over a few hours after to do a test. I am buying all the supplies next day or two to start testing (I have 2 sick family members too and haven't been able to purchase yet). Praying he responds to Lantus!!! p
PS the wine is excellent idea!!!!
 
If you are only testing a few hours after the shot and feeding, the numbers are likely to be high as they are food influenced and the insulin has not started working yet. Go to the Lantus Forum and read the stickies to see how it works, it's quite different from ProZinc. Good luck with the switch!
 
Thanks Sharon. My vet was very impressed with all the support and ideas here. I was wanting to change, the Lantus will be cheaper and hopefully he will respond. Goo is my boy!
 
Of course you can! I don't use ProZinc any more either and I'm always hanging around. For dosing advice though you'll have to go on the Lantus forum. If you have problems getting answers there, tag me. I can't give dosing advice but I can help you find someone who can.
 
Excellent news! Now that you're testing we will be able to see how well the insulin is working and give much better advice!
 
Some other assessments you might use are in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools, especially food and water intake, dehydration checks, and urine ketones and glucose. These are most likely to alter with the blood glucose levels.
 
I am a bit worried. Yesterday he vomited twice (late morning, early afternoon) and seemed a little subdued. I checked his glucose, it was 260. I had to coax him to eat canned dinner. Did fine last night. Still a little subdued this morning, he generally very full of himself. Glucose 232. I can't do control yet (waiting on solution which is insane) so ran to Walgreens and got another meter just to double check,it was 236. Contacted vet and just gave 1.5 unit. He purrs and talks but not quite himself. Vomited again this afternoon. Urinated one time this morning. I gave him treats, did fine. And gave him 25 cc of water by syringe in his mouth.i am hoping this is just adjustment to lower glucose...,
 
If he drops low, that can make him feel really off. You want to be sure he doesn't drop too low. I wonder about reducing to one unit tonight
 
That sounds like a great idea, I will definitely do that. You guys are awesome! Ps a friend is going to help me get a pic of Goo loaded
 
He's so cute!!! I love black kitties, have quite a few myself! Melissa have you started the Lantus yet? It looks as though you have. Please get a spreadsheet going, we can help you with that, and ask for dosing advice on the Lantus forum. It is dosed differently from ProZinc.
 
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