glucose testing

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Gabby

Gabby

Member Since 2015
I gave gabby her insulin of 1 unit this morning and her food, but she has not eaten much today. When we got home today gabby was acting weird and unstable. I checked her sugar and it was 38. I got it back up and she seems to be okay. I called vet and the front desk told me to give gabby her insulin tonight as long as she seems to be acting ok. I asked her if gabby sugar was still low or average do I need to skip and she said I can but it would still be okay to give it to her. My question to u all is there a number that if ur cat is at that u don't give the shot. I do not want her to drop low again. It scared me so much. Please any advice would help. I felt like the girl at the vet was like just give her the one unit twice a day no matter what. she said most people don't ck blood and just give the insulin No matter what. Thanks.
 
I can't offer dosing advise but those who can will need to know what kind of insulin she is on, how long she has been on it, any other health issues, what kind of food she is eating and whether you are home testing...what meter you are using. If you are using Lantus or Levemir please repost this over in the Lantus/ Levemir section:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

That is definitely a low number and she needs to be monitored right away and definitely BEFORE any additional insulin is given. Checking glucose levels can save a cat an expensive visit to the emergency with hypoglycemia which can be dangerous and even fatal. No one should ever shoot without testing no matter what they "girl" at the vet's office said. No human diabetic ever injects without testing first.

For new diabetic cats depending on their levels and readings through the day, a rule of thumb is not to shoot below 200 when first starting until you know how your kitty reacts to the insulin.
 
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For most newbies, I believe we usually say not giving insulin with a pre-shot number of under 200. Or wait an hour and retest to see if it's safe to shoot. After you get more information about how Gabby responds to insulin, that pre-shot number can go down, especially if you are using one of the long-lasting insulins like Lantus.
 
Gabby said:
I gave gabby her insulin of 1 unit this morning and her food, but she has not eaten much today. When we got home today gabby was acting weird and unstable. I checked her sugar and it was 38. I got it back up and she seems to be okay. I called vet and the front desk told me to give gabby her insulin tonight as long as she seems to be acting ok. I asked her if gabby sugar was still low or average do I need to skip and she said I can but it would still be okay to give it to her. My question to u all is there a number that if ur cat is at that u don't give the shot. I do not want her to drop low again. It scared me so much. Please any advice would help. I felt like the girl at the vet was like just give her the one unit twice a day no matter what. she said most people don't ck blood and just give the insulin No matter what. Thanks.
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Your vet sounds like the one I just fired. She nearly killed my cat twice by giving that kind of advice. If "most people don't check blood" it's because of vets that tell them not to! And I would have to seriously doubt that "most" statement. Someone on here recently said that diabetes is much more common in dogs than cats & vets just don't know how to treat feline diabetes.
 
Please don't give that same dose again. if it got her into the 30's this morning it can do so again. That dose is too high for her. If you saw symptoms then she may be more sensitive to the insulin after a symptomatic hypo.

You've been given some good information - don't shoot less than 200 unless someone has helped you figure out that it's safe. An experienced person will shoot lower once they know their cat's response to insulin, but you are not in that situation.

She needs a dose reduction. Can you give us more of the story - how long has she been getting insulin? what insulin is it?

But please, do not shoot the 1u again at this point.
 
I am using lantus 1 unit twice daily and she is eating classic fancy feast. She is about 5 pds. She has been on the lantus since friday. I have been checking it every time before I give her the dose. But I just wasn't sure about when and when not to give the dose at certain numbers. Since the vet is no help. Thank you all so much for your help.
 
Gabby said:
I am using lantus 1 unit twice daily and she is eating classic fancy feast. She is about 5 pds. She has been on the lantus since friday. I have been checking it every time before I give her the dose. But I just wasn't sure about when and when not to give the dose at certain numbers. Since the vet is no help. Thank you all so much for your help.
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I am using Relion meter to ck the blood sugar and she has been on insulin since friday April 24th.
 
I would decrease her dose to 0.5u and see how she does on that. I'm so glad you're on top of things - you literally may have saved her life this morning.

Always check before shooting the insulin. The insulin is typically strongest 3-8 hrs after the shot has been given, so if you can test her somewhere in that range, that would let you know how low the dose is taking her. That is very important for 2 reasons - one is that if she's going low (under 50 on a human glucometer), you can give her carbs to bring her up. The second reason is that dosing is based upon how low a dose causes the cat's blood sugar to go - so knowing that helps you make dosing decisions.

Another important thing to know about diabetic cats: newly diagnosed cats have the ability to have their pancreas heal and to become diet-controlled. That doesn't happen to every cat, but what that means is that if the pancreas is beginning to put out some insulin, the dose that was just right before can become too much. That's why cats don't just "get the right dose" and stay with that dose forever.

If you're having trouble getting blood to test, don't get discouraged. It's common - it takes about 2 weeks for capillaries to grow and then you'll get blood every time. In the meantime, your poking is stimulating more capillaries to grow. So hang in there - it's for a good cause!

Can we get you to create a spreadsheet? That is our most essential tool for helping keep track of what the cat's body is doing with the insulin. Directions for it are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/

In the meantime, keep getting the preshot test and if you can, another test a few hours later and watch for any sign that she is extremely sensitive to the insulin, ie, if her blood sugar drops back into low numbers. She may have high blood sugar tonight after going so low today, but DON'T increase the dose because you're seeing high numbers. The dose is based upon the 38 that you got this morning, not the high numbers. Give the 0.5u a try and see how it does.

It would be good to post here with your preshot number before you test tonight. If it's under 200 you may want to skip the shot. Did she have ketones when she was diagnosed? Or Diabetic Ketoacidosis?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I would decrease her dose to 0.5u and see how she does on that. I'm so glad you're on top of things - you literally may have saved her life this morning.

Always check before shooting the insulin. The insulin is typically strongest 3-8 hrs after the shot has been given, so if you can test her somewhere in that range, that would let you know how low the dose is taking her. That is very important for 2 reasons - one is that if she's going low (under 50 on a human glucometer), you can give her carbs to bring her up. The second reason is that dosing is based upon how low a dose causes the cat's blood sugar to go - so knowing that helps you make dosing decisions.

Another important thing to know about diabetic cats: newly diagnosed cats have the ability to have their pancreas heal and to become diet-controlled. That doesn't happen to every cat, but what that means is that if the pancreas is beginning to put out some insulin, the dose that was just right before can become too much. That's why cats don't just "get the right dose" and stay with that dose forever.

If you're having trouble getting blood to test, don't get discouraged. It's common - it takes about 2 weeks for capillaries to grow and then you'll get blood every time. In the meantime, your poking is stimulating more capillaries to grow. So hang in there - it's for a good cause!

Can we get you to create a spreadsheet? That is our most essential tool for helping keep track of what the cat's body is doing with the insulin. Directions for it are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/

In the meantime, keep getting the preshot test and if you can, another test a few hours later and watch for any sign that she is extremely sensitive to the insulin, ie, if her blood sugar drops back into low numbers. She may have high blood sugar tonight after going so low today, but DON'T increase the dose because you're seeing high numbers. The dose is based upon the 38 that you got this morning, not the high numbers. Give the 0.5u a try and see how it does.

It would be good to post here with your preshot number before you test tonight. If it's under 200 you may want to skip the shot. Did she have ketones when she was diagnosed? Or Diabetic Ketoacidosis?
Click to expand...


julie & punkin (ga) said:
I would decrease her dose to 0.5u and see how she does on that. I'm so glad you're on top of things - you literally may have saved her life this morning.

Always check before shooting the insulin. The insulin is typically strongest 3-8 hrs after the shot has been given, so if you can test her somewhere in that range, that would let you know how low the dose is taking her. That is very important for 2 reasons - one is that if she's going low (under 50 on a human glucometer), you can give her carbs to bring her up. The second reason is that dosing is based upon how low a dose causes the cat's blood sugar to go - so knowing that helps you make dosing decisions.

Another important thing to know about diabetic cats: newly diagnosed cats have the ability to have their pancreas heal and to become diet-controlled. That doesn't happen to every cat, but what that means is that if the pancreas is beginning to put out some insulin, the dose that was just right before can become too much. That's why cats don't just "get the right dose" and stay with that dose forever.

If you're having trouble getting blood to test, don't get discouraged. It's common - it takes about 2 weeks for capillaries to grow and then you'll get blood every time. In the meantime, your poking is stimulating more capillaries to grow. So hang in there - it's for a good cause!

Can we get you to create a spreadsheet? That is our most essential tool for helping keep track of what the cat's body is doing with the insulin. Directions for it are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/

In the meantime, keep getting the preshot test and if you can, another test a few hours later and watch for any sign that she is extremely sensitive to the insulin, ie, if her blood sugar drops back into low numbers. She may have high blood sugar tonight after going so low today, but DON'T increase the dose because you're seeing high numbers. The dose is based upon the 38 that you got this morning, not the high numbers. Give the 0.5u a try and see how it does.

It would be good to post here with your preshot number before you test tonight. If it's under 200 you may want to skip the shot. Did she have ketones when she was diagnosed? Or Diabetic Ketoacidosis?
Click to expand...


Don't know about ketone or diabetic ketoacidios. How do they check for that. All they did was a blood test. And yes I will get a spread sheet. I have been writing down the days and times I give shots and the sugar before the shot.
 
You'd know if if she had ketones or DKA. The vet would've told you and if she'd had DKA she'd have likely spent a couple of days at the vet's upon diagnosis. They are very sick kitties.

Great on the spreadsheet - you're off to a good start! There is a ton to learn early on, but it gets infinitely easier as you learn more.
 
I can vouch for Julie`s excellent advice...my cat was heading hypo not too long ago and she helped me get her BG up to safer levels.
 
Lori & Lulu said:
I can vouch for Julie`s excellent advice...my cat was heading hypo not too long ago and she helped me get her BG up to safer levels.
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I second that! Julie has years of experience with diabetic cats....something most vets don't. There is a BIG difference from learning from textbooks and manuals and actually dealing daily with a diabetic cat. I have been fortunate enough to find a vet..my second one...I "fired' the first one because of an attitude like yours (Gabby)...who talks to me and is not afraid to admit that she is actually learning new things from my experiences.
 
See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some tips on urine testing for ketones. Ketones show up in the urine an average of 5 days after they start appearing in the blood, so if your cat has ever had diabetic ketoacidosis, getting a blood ketone meter is a good investment.
 
When it comes to unusual diseases the patient can be the doctor's best resource--in animal medicine as well as human! My sister-in-law probably knows more about Fabry's disease than most doctors--because if she hadn't educated herself her husband would be dead by now. If you ever get a vet who won't listen to you because they know more than you do.. kick 'em to the wall.
 
just checked gabby's sugar and it is 250. She still won't eat her food. She did eat after her sugar dropped when i checked it earlier but since then only treats. May have been bad for me to do but i was nervous about her sugar being so low, may be what brought her sugar up so high. They are dry treats, not sure what is the best treat to give a diabetic cat. So I am not feeling comfortable with giving her a 1 unit shot. Should I and can I wait til the morning and recheck her blood after she eats and go from there. Just nervous if I give a shot and she drops low again it will be bad on her again.
 
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Stall 30 minutes without feeding and re-test. If rising and over 200 mg/dL on a human meter, it may be safe to shoot.
Sometimes, folks give a token dose to keep the glucose from shooting up. In your case, you might choose to give .5 units.

Also, giving some insulin may prompt some appetite by lowering the glucose level in the blood.
 
There is a phenomenon we call a "bounce" that occurs following a cat either getting into low numbers, like Gabby did today, or if the cat's blood sugar drops too fast. When those things happen the cat's body perceives it as a hypo whether it was or not, and the liver releases hormones and stored sugars to bring up the cat's blood sugar and save it.

That's why Gabby is high tonight. The bounce can last as many as 3 days, so you may see high numbers for the next 3 days. That's why I said even if you see high numbers tonight, to NOT give the 1.0u again. Since you've skipped tonight, start in the morning, but STILL, even if she's high, don't give the 1.0u again. It's too much.

Most people give something pure meat for treats. They have minimal carbs and most cats like them. I gave punkin cooked chicken breast (diced really small, like 1/2" cubes); many others give freeze dried meat.

Here are some tips on how to tempt a kitty to eat. It's really important to get her eating again. Diabetic cats need to be eating and getting their insulin. If you can't get her to eat by morning using the tricks in the link, I'd check in with the vet.

Here's a longer description of a bounce in case that doesn't make sense:

OUNCING

Here is an example of a bounce from someone's recent condo:

you can spot a bounce this way (this only took me 6 months to learn and a bunch of people explaining it! i'm a slow learner!)

yesterday morning you had a 215 - then it went 235, 271, 270, and then 308 this morning - basically straight up. no curve. and then look backwards in the ss and the night before was that sweet little 148 12 hours earlier.

if you imagine that night-time cycle, starting at 148, kitty probably went down in a nice little curve, hitting something under 100 mid-cycle. that lower-than-usual number would've shocked her body. they get accustomed to whatever range they're in, and any sudden dip lower can set this off.

"HELLO WE"VE GOT A 911 HERE- KITTY'S GOING DOWN!" yells Mr. Liver. Fortunately, mr liver has a storehouse of counter-regulatory hormones and stored sugar (in case kitty needs a little nommy sweets in the middle of the night) and when Kitty gets into a range of numbers lower than usual, Mr. Liver lets loose with the sugar and the hormones and sends Kitty on a rocket to the moon. this is the cat's body's protective mechanism to keep the cat from becoming hypoglycemic. unfortunately, mr liver doesn't seem to know that anything above 40ish isn't a crisis and it will do this regardless of the range of numbers, even at 200 if the cat has become accustomed to 400.

A second cause of a bounce is if a cat drops very quickly. 100 points in an hour, for example, regardless of the range the BG number is in, can cause a bounce as well.

So, what to do now? don't increase the dose because of these higher numbers. once this bounce clears, which can take up to 3 days of high numbers if mr liver is super-active, then if you had increased the dose, it would be too high. you are entering the phase of treatment that we say requires "Patience Pants." when you think you're seeing a bounce, you have to wait it out, then you can see what the dose really does. You will know the bounce has cleared when you start seeing numbers you were seeing before - like that 148 again.

edited for clarity.

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I love the description of a bounce! Another little thing I picked up from the article on the home page about doing curves--a bounce can send the numbers really scary high, like over 600. My Charlie did that a week ago.
 
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