Glucose monitoring (fog)

MLT

MLT

Member
The more I read to learn, the more confusing....I started administering 1 unit insulin, 2ce daily to my 16 y/o cat on 3/10. The vet suggests I administer insulin while Storm eats and that I do a curve next week. Most advice is to give after food intake, and that glucose m-u-s-t be metered before each dose. Are those preference (?) Is a prescription needed for syringes?! The 1st two days, Storm's behavior and movement improved. As of yesterday, looks like his back legs are weaker. Due to his anxiety at vets, I will administer all. But his ear areas are sensitive. Anyone have any experience using a glucometer not at the ear?
 
Good morning! Sorry we didn't get to your question last night. I was fast asleep when you posted. :) I love your cat's name, by the way!

First off, yes you want them to eat before shooting. However, if Storm is a good eater, it's fine to administer the dose during eating. You just want to make sure that he gets some food on board. I usually let Gypsy eat for a minute or so, and once I knew she was eating fine, I'd go ahead and give the dose while she continued eating. That way, I knew she was eating and had food, and then I could give her dose while she was distracted.

Second, yes you ALWAYS want to get a test before eating and before the shot. You want to be sure that Storm is high enough to shoot. I always did the test in the ear, but I know several have also used the paw pads. It's totally possible to do that and if it's easier for you two, then that's fine. I'm sure you can find videos online of cats being tested in the paw pad...there are plenty of videos of testing in the ear, so there should be paw pad as well.

As for syringes, I'm not sure. Where do you live? It's different everywhere. We didn't need a prescription here, but others have.

His back legs being weak could be neuropathy. I don't have experience with that, but many give b-12 for it. @Djamila can you give some info on this?

Let us know if you have any other questions! We're more than happy to help!
 
I'm not quite sure I'm understanding the original post -- you already have syringes, don't you? Otherwise how are you giving the insulin? I wonder if you're asking if a prescription is needed for the glucometer? In which case - no, you can just buy one at most any pharmacy. You'll want to choose one that is from somewhere close and convenient because you can't run out of test strips. Don't worry as much about the cost of the meter as the cost of the test strips - because you'll be buying a lot of them, you'll want to make sure they are at a price point you can keep up with. They range anywhere from 20 cents to over a dollar/strip. Many folks around here use one of the Relion meters from WalMart because they are affordable, so if you have one near you, you could try there. I use this one: https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product...ose-test-strips-lancets-and-free-presto-meter because I prefer to order by mail and have them delivered (the lancets that come with this are too thin when you're starting though - you'll want to get 26 or 28 gauge lancets, especially if you might be doing paw testing instead of ear testing).

As for the neuropathy -- without any test data, I always wonder if the weakness you're seeing is neuropathy or low blood sugar (which can be dangerous), so pretty please start testing as soon as you can! Assuming it is neuropathy, Zobaline is the easiest option. You can buy the B12 and folic acid separately, but in the beginning, it's just easier to get one product that has everything you need and is easy to sprinkle into the food. That way you can be sure you have the right type of B12 and the right proportions. It can take awhile to see improvement, but it's important to get started on the zobaline and keep at it consistently.

Back to testing -- my guy has sensitive ears too, but in the end, he decided he much preferred the ear pokes to the paw pokes. If you click on the "profile" link in my signature and scroll down, there is a whole section about how I taught my cat to tolerate the tests. Hopefully something in there will be helpful for you. And as Rachel said, there are lots of videos around here of people testing their cats that can help you see how to get started. If you have trouble finding one, let us know and we can help direct you there.
 
Thank you both! (I am the one in 'the fog'). I read up on neuropathy, which points to methylcabalamine...generic for what you has been mentioned here?! Storm is actually under weight- usual for him is 13 lbs, he recently weighed in at 9. HOWEVER, he is eating like gangbusters. I see that increasing food without adjusting insulin is useless (and might actually be harmful).I'll head to Walmart this AM for glucometer and strips. Also found how to heat rice in a sock and then warm the cat's ear, which I will try. I'm worried that I will muck up the readings/amounts, so I'll review info on that too....
 
Here is a link to the spreadsheet we use: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Once you set it up, you just enter the numbers, and the color coding happens automatically. It's pretty fun (in a nerdy way) ;)

Don't try to adjust the dose on your own for a little while. Read the stickies so you can make good decisions, but ask for help. It can be tricky at first. We all learned from the people who came before us and we're happy to help!
 
You all beat me to it. As for the neuropathy, I give Zobaline. It’s a special formula that has no sugars especially formulated for diabetic cats. I have seen a great improvement in my girls back legs but cannot as to whether or not it is attributable to the Zobaline, the insulin or combination of both. All that said it wouldn’t hurt. Just make sure there is no sugar. Zobaline can be ordered online from life link directly.
 
OK. I have gotten a ReliOn PRIME unit, lancets and test strips. And named/published a spreadsheet (SS). I've read through Understanding the SS/Grid, but I think that the grid is actually more than I need....in theory, I will be testing AMPS and PMPS, at which point I would note down a value within the specific range. So, as I am testing, there will be two values per day (another way to look at- 2 values per line), yes? Also, I had expected that the info gathered would be date, time, #units, reading value; however, the SS is broken down into ranges. Is there specific importance to the range breakdowns? I think that I made life more difficult- the ReliOn info gives ranges for humans...iI am missing a piece, a resource that shows what feline levels should be, and how to adjust (?!) Thnx. Marie​
 
The numbers in the colored ranges listed on the SS refer to the glucose readings. Its important to know that a normal cat's readings are between 70 and 150 ish. You should read the insulin protocols threads at this website, its important to know this stuff when you give insulin. Most of us test in the middle of the day/cycle because that's when they go to the bottom of the curve and you need to know if your insulin dosage is too strong (taking them dangerously low) or too low (taking them too high, which over time can also be dangerous). I'm a newbie here myself and have been focused on keeping an eye on at least 3 readings a day to be safe. There is a lot of great info in those protocol threads. Also advice on getting the blood tests. Over time it gets easier and the cat tolerates it more. Good luck!
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
@Ramon's mom This normal range applies to your AlphaTrak meter. MLT is using a human meter which reads lower than a pet meter.
@MLT normal for a cat using your Prime meter is 50 to 120. :)
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Sorry. I was just trying to emphacize the importance of testing midcycle too since she was saying she is only going to test at AMPS and PMPS. And actually I am also using a human meter (I stopped using the Alpha Trak in December) but I never really get numbers close to the normal range anyway so I guess I just get it wrong. My apologies.
 
Ramon's mom said:
Sorry. I was just trying to emphacize the importance of testing midcycle too since she was saying she is only going to test at AMPS and PMPS. And actually I am also using a human meter (I stopped using the Alpha Trak in December) but I never really get numbers close to the normal range anyway so I guess I just get it wrong. My apologies.
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
No need to apologize. There are so many numbers floating around here it's very easy to type the wrong ones. ;)
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I second this! That's why this forum is "peer reviewed" so we can help each other keep the details straight. And the range you gave is a correct range for anyone using an AT2, and certainly not going to put a cat in danger. Honestly, the most important thing to me is that you are reaching a point where you are able to help out new people and share what you have learned. This board keeps working when people learn, and then turn around and help others. So thank you for helping, and don't even worry about it! :bighug:

And you're right about the importance of those mid-cycle tests. Just getting the PS numbers is not enough to assess the effectiveness of a dose, and can frequently lead to either under or over dosing.

MLT - if you're at work during the day, let us know and we can share some ideas of how to manage this. It is possible to have a full time job and manage this well. Of course if you're one of the lucky folks who can work from home or has some flexibility in your schedule, it's even easier. :)
 
Ditto RE the built in 'cross-checks'! My takeaway from that did not involve this forum, but the vet- he (probably) prefers the feline glucometer....** Storm does not seem any more phased than usual, so I have taken the first reading- after 3 fails/blanks using the ReliOn lancet device, I pricked him in the ear directly. 0800 feeding was 1/4 can of DM plus 1/3 of a quarter; blood measured @ 1130. Value was 49. I need to go back and read, as I still do not understand the progression of the SS (ie the way the columns and headers are set up).
 
MLT said:
Ditto RE the built in 'cross-checks'! My takeaway from that did not involve this forum, but the vet- he (probably) prefers the feline glucometer....** Storm does not seem any more phased than usual, so I have taken the first reading- after 3 fails/blanks using the ReliOn lancet device, I pricked him in the ear directly. 0800 feeding was 1/4 can of DM plus 1/3 of a quarter; blood measured @ 1130. Value was 49. I need to go back and read, as I still do not understand the progression of the SS (ie the way the columns and headers are set up).
Click to expand...
This is helpful: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/
 
I understand the 'mechanics' of the SS, it was moreso the theory behind the design. But I think that I see it. If not, anyone please advise- felines will start the day with a high BG level, which is expected to decrease throughout the day (ergo the various columns with the ranges and time periods). I measured Storm, my cat, early in the day but his BG level is below the end of day range (!) Is that how the SS is interpreted?!
 
wait....you got a 49? That's too low, my friend. Please give your kitty a snack and test again!
 
As for the spreadsheet - we all live in different time zones and have different shot times, so when you say you tested at 11:30, I have no idea what that means. But if you say your AMPS (the BG reading just before the morning dose = AM Pre-Shot) was....let's say 200 (I can't see your spreadsheet to find out what it really was), and then your +3.5 was 49, then I know that 3 and a half hours after you gave the insulin, the number is already down to 49. Since cats will usually keep dropping until sometime around +6 (six hours after the shot), that tells us that Storm is getting too much insulin right now and may be in danger of going hypo if you don't start bringing that number up with some food.

I hope that helps explain it a little more, and why it's set up the way it is. It just really helps us communicate more clearly with a community that spans all over the world.
 
Tried the lancet device on myself- zip.

Just tried again with Storm. The ReliOn lancet device is useless.I pierced Storm's ear directly, got the same amount of blood, but the glucometer is not recognizing it....Thanks for the detail re the SS. Was my one interpretation correct, that if all is well, a cat's BG should fall within the specified periods throughout a day?
 
To get a reading, make sure you are....
1. pushing the test strip fully into the meter (the screen should change - mine shows a drop of blood when it's ready to go, but I have a different type of meter -- but somehow the screen should indicate it's ready to read)
2. poke the ear
3. "milk" the ear to get a little bead of blood
4. touch the opening of the test strip to the drop of blood and let it suck in the blood
5. wait for the reading to appear

From the time you push the strip all the way in, until the time you suck in the blood, you'll have a set amount of time. Depending on your meter it might be 60, 90, or 120 seconds. After that it will time out. If you end up needing more time (for example your cat decides to wander off and chase his brother), you can pull the strip back out, and re-insert it to reset the clock.

And yes, those clicky devices are useless. Most of us just use the lancet (the sharp part) and free-hand poke.

As for the interpretation of the reading - in a regulated cat (and it can take months to get to regulated), the curve should look like a smile. The pre-shot numbers will be higher, the nadir will be lower. So you inject, in about two-three hours the insulin starts to kick in, then the BG will start to go down, down, down, until somewhere around +4 to +7 (varies by cat, and sometimes by day), then the BG will start to rise again until it's time for the next shot.

As a cat gets well regulated, they will often drop on the earlier side of that range (+3 to +4), and then flatten out in the middle of the cycle (we call that surfing), and then rise again towards the end of the cycle. So still a smile, but a little flatter in the middle.

Looking at your numbers, it looks like you had an 800 for PS and a 49 for +3. While that's not impossible, my hunch is that one of those numbers was a bad reading. If the little window in the test strip has too much or too little blood, you can get a bad reading. So when something seems particularly out of place or dramatic (like dropping over 700 points in three hours), we usually suggest testing again to see which reading was wrong.

Anytime you get a lime green number, it's time to take action. Hypoglycemia can be dangerous. At 49, he wasn't hypo yet, but if he kept dropping for three more hours, he could be in danger, so it's important if you get a lime green number to follow the directions in the yellow sticky for hypos.
 
How does one correlate the numbers in the SS column headers- which are in the hundreds- with the feline range of 50- 120 (human glucometer) ?
 
50-120 is the range for a healthy, non-diabetic cat. The range of a cat's BG can unfortunately span quite high. In some cats even above the 500 listed on the spreadsheet

As far as converting, there is no correlation. You can't convert from feline numbers to human numbers. They aren't that far off though. If you test using a human meter and a pet meter, in the lower ranges (under 200), the two meters will read fairly close together. In the higher numbers, they will diverge more. Most cats when they are first diagnosed are in those yellow, pink, and red numbers. The fact that storm isn't in those numbers is just lucky. It means his diabetes isn't as advanced as many at diagnosis.

Please please test every day. Since his numbers are so healthy, there is a reasonable chance that with active care he could go into remission.
 
OK. Goal is to do three tests a day- AM, +6 and PM, but strips fail due to insufficient blood. By the 3rd attempt, I stop- if the cat is so agitated, won't that skew the value, making it useless?! Or does one continue, regardless?
 
If you click on the "profile" in my signature, and scroll down, there is a section on testing that you might find helpful. It talks about when to take a break, and what to do next.
 
I licked on your cat's photo, then Profile (earlier and just now), the following is thrown: "This member limits who may view their full profile."
 
If you look at my signature, it's the blue letters that say "profile" there - not the profile for the website. Sorry for leaving that so unclear! Right next to the blue "food list" and above the link to Sam's Spreadsheet.
 
Sweet story! I realize that perseverance is the trick, and am also trying to de-stress myself; Storm, however, is still drawing (my) blood. The AMPS measure is right before the 1st insulin injection. Again today, after half an hour, the only thing I had was a fresh bandage. Which is more important- the glucose reading or the meal (IOW- should one delay the meal and start the 12 hour count from that point, or forego the BG reading, which is what I've been doing)?
 
Given the numbers you're seeing, I would absolutely not shoot without knowing what the BG reading is. Storm shouldn't be hurting you in this process. That's a sign that he's upset and you need to re-set and start over. Without being there, it's hard to know what exactly is the cause of that, so we'll start with the simplest to fix:

If he's very hungry at testing time, he's more likely to fight the process, so one trick is to give him a small amount of food (like a small tablespoon), then as soon as he's done eating it, do the test. If you do it right away, the food won't have impacted his BG yet, but it will have calmed him down enough to cooperate for the test.

If that isn't enough to settle him down, then I think you'll likely need to start over with the testing process. You can't stop testing at this point, but you can do all of those desensitizing practices that I talked about in the profile in between your regular tests. Lots of "acting out" the test, and lots of chin scratches (if he likes those) and a treat, then release. Start to really build those positive associations. One location. One fake test. One treat. Release.

Over and over. and over.

Cats really are creatures of habit, and they aren't that hard to train if you are consistent, calm, and confident. Cats can't be forced or they will fight, but they can be trained to participate with us in the process.

I think Storm has a good shot at remission, but he's reaching the phase where the injections could bring him too low, so testing right now is more important than ever. Deep breaths, put on some music, and take your time.

Oh, and in answer to your question, it's fine to delay the meal and start the 12 hour clock from whenever you actually give the injection. Especially since you're only shooting once/day right now. However, again, the longer he waits to eat, the hungrier he gets, and the hungrier he gets the less he'll cooperate, so you may want to start the testing process earlier, or do the one-tablespoon trick.
 
Am using TBSP trick and pricking within 15 minutes, and also wear a shirt with slits at the wrist, for the thumbs- fabric is like a brushed cotton (soft) and I can pull it up and down my hand for protection...rather then go to sleep after eating, Storm has restarted staying at his food place, near his water bowl. This week, there was mostly no change in the level of water in his bowl...since @ 2 days ago, he is back to sipping water (when I started insulin, I had to refill water 2-3 times a day).
 
With a large blood drop, Storm just measured '23'. (no treat before) That would be w-a-y low...I gave him some treats. His behavior has not changed since AM. (yesterday, he had chewed some leaves of a spider plant). With a true value so low, wouldn't there be a noticeable change in the cat? (I am wondering if the meter is defective.)
 
Oh dear. No, there may not be any visible change in the cat. Doesn't make it safe though!

With a newly diagnosed cat, we don't recommend giving a full dose when they are under 200. Giving the full 1u on a green number this morning was very dangerous.

Please take some time to read the stickies at the top of the forum, both the guidelines to know what to do about dosing, and the sticky about hypos. Getting a 23 and not doing another test is really putting Storm at risk. Cats don't show symptoms of a hypo unless they are really in critical condition. It can happen in an instant. Reading the stickies will help you know what to do if this ever happens again.
 
Vet- who said not to adjust dose/he will do post curve- is back from vacation, has not connected, no reply re SS. Will keep trying to connect. Initial starting point was to be 1U, but Storm was probably getting @ .25U. Has been 1U since 3/29.
 
MLT said:
With a large blood drop, Storm just measured '23'. (no treat before) That would be w-a-y low...I gave him some treats. His behavior has not changed since AM. (yesterday, he had chewed some leaves of a spider plant). With a true value so low, wouldn't there be a noticeable change in the cat? (I am wondering if the meter is defective.)
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How is he doing now? What kind of treats did you give after 23?

Is it normal for him to chew on a spider plant? Or might he have been ravenous from hypo? Was there food out at the time he was munching the plant?

Our guys don't eat plants luckily but I'm still super cautious with which ones I put where they can get, and I know from past research the aspca says Spider Plants are non-toxic to cats but I don't know if it has an effect on blood sugar. https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control/toxic-and-non-toxic-plants/spider-plant
 
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He's been his usual sleeping, following me around. After the ow measurement, I have him 7-8 Blue Wilderness Soft-Moist Cat Treats(Chicken and Trout) and a Raw Boost Mixer (Instinct). It's a running joke in my house- the plants have never been safe, because he has always munched on them. I keep them up as high as I can, and have't had a spider plant for years. But I got one recently, and had it on top of a radiator (for extra heat, thinking that it would be safe as he has been reaching/jumping less). That morning when I had woken, he had toppled it, chewed some, and spit up pieces.

RE FF- I sometimes fed it to my cats, and went to Petco to get some last week (lots of sites say it is good for diabetic cats). I commented to the cashier that it was s-o discounted....she and another lady told me that Petco was going to discontinue carrying it, as it was not good, that FF was going to come out with an improved line, which the store would stock. (we are in Northern Virginia) Hear anything like that?
 
I haven't heard anything about that, but you might contact FF and ask them. They should be able to give you some info on it, as well as info on what the new line will include.
 
MLT said:
He's been his usual sleeping, following me around. After the ow measurement, I have him 7-8 Blue Wilderness Soft-Moist Cat Treats(Chicken and Trout) and a Raw Boost Mixer (Instinct). It's a running joke in my house- the plants have never been safe, because he has always munched on them. I keep them up as high as I can, and have't had a spider plant for years. But I got one recently, and had it on top of a radiator (for extra heat, thinking that it would be safe as he has been reaching/jumping less). That morning when I had woken, he had toppled it, chewed some, and spit up pieces.

RE FF- I sometimes fed it to my cats, and went to Petco to get some last week (lots of sites say it is good for diabetic cats). I commented to the cashier that it was s-o discounted....she and another lady told me that Petco was going to discontinue carrying it, as it was not good, that FF was going to come out with an improved line, which the store would stock. (we are in Northern Virginia) Hear anything like that?
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AHA! Sent an online message to the FF folks, and am still waiting for a reply; however, I found a reference to FF being pulled in another forum- "Petco new food: WholeHearted carb content ok?".
 
@Rachel Here's another thread "Petco website message about Fancy Feast..." I checked out the first link, but rather than an alert, it looks to be mainly for sales.....
 
MLT - I bought a can of the Whole Hearted and checked it with the carb calculator. It was way too high, although I can't remember the exact %. I ended up giving it to my non-diabetic cat, and even he wouldn't eat it!
 
Got an 'official' response from Purina RE is FF changing its line. Basically, it was 'we don't respond to rumors'.... I called Purina at 800.933.0991- the rep had no knowledge of a line change 'at this time', and referred me to Purina.com. Seems to me that because of all the variables, a good rule of thumb is to check cat food labels and then rely on your cat's gut instinct to know what works for his/her body!
 
I'm going to keep using FF until I see a bad reaction or get further information. It is not the only food Zoey eats, so if I have to quit using it, she won't starve!
 
(Thanks to all who kept me moving ahead...) Continue to notice this- Storm has less control over his hind legs and front paws- they slip, and when I touch his paw pads, rather than push back, they remain limp. Good neuropathy resources- trying to educate myself before informing vet, who wants periodic curves only, never says to make changes (but it seems to me that we should be more proactive?!) Overall QUESTIONS:

RE insulin- board says not to administer full dose if BG under 200. Storm is consistently under 200. (I had moved to .5. vet did not say anything, so I moved back to .75. Does .25 change even do anything?)

RE neuropathy- treatment should start whenever cat within 'normal' BG range?

RE BG Range- should I be aiming to keep Storm on less insulin- measurements to be in blue- or should the goal be to maintain him within GREEN ?!
 
Those are great questions!

Neuropathy treatment should start now. Zobaline is the recommended combination for treating neuropathy in cats. You can buy it from amazon or most pet pharmacies. It's tasteless and just mixes into the food. It does take awhile to start noticing a difference (several weeks to a month or so).

Not shooting under 200 is for new folks, or folks who are not testing regularly. It's a guideline to keep the kitties safe before their responses are known and more predictable. Over time, the "no shoot" number can be lowered.

A healthy, non-diabetic cat is typically between 50-80 most of the time, without insulin. On insulin, good control would most likely have PS numbers in the blues, and several hours in the middle in the dark greens. Maintaining in green, while on prozinc, would be very difficult. That can be done well on Lantus and Levemir, but Prozinc has a slightly steeper curve. In general if a cat on prozinc has PS numbers in the greens, it's time to come off of insulin.

Given the infrequency of data on your spreadsheet, I'm a little nervous about the current dose. I think I'd lower to 0.25u, and try to collect data daily (at least before every shot, but preferably some mid-cycle data - even if it's just a before bed test at night). If you lower the dose and the PS numbers start to climb again, post and have someone check the updated data.

And yes, a 0.25u change does make a big difference. A single drop can make a big difference. We often adjust doses by what we call a "skinny" or a "fat" dose (just above or just below the line), and even that can make a difference. Insulin is powerful.
 
Hi. Yes, .25 absolutely does have an effect. It seems like so little to us, but we weigh about 10 times more than our kitties do, and if you think about it, it's 50% of what Storm's dose is.

Now I freely confess that I didn't read through this whole thread, but I'm not sure I would be shooting even .5 units with such a low pre-shot number. The normal cat range on a human meter is 50-120, and I get that Storm is there with some insulin support, but he's so newly diagnosed (6 weeks, yes?) that I wonder if he can do well on less and ultimately do it all on his own? Do you have any mid-day data? (I know sometimes I have data but take awhile to getting around to posting it :oops: ) I would be very curious to know how low he may be dropping at nadir . . .
 
Jenna Josie said:
(Okay, and also, I thought the range was 50-120, but maybe it's really *mostly* between 50-80, and up to 120 on occasion?)
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Yes, exactly! And even with that there is some wiggle room. For example, it's 68-150 on an AT2, and I've also read 70-180, and a few other ranges cited as normal. Around here and from studying spreadsheets, we generally use 50-80 as normal, non-diabetic, with occasional numbers up to 120.
 
Yes, I got remiss- was going to do curves on Sundays and 3 bg checks/day but it is still stressful...and that skews the numbers. (And we were not home) Also, I thought he was getting better with the hg pricks, but it's more likely that Storm seems calmer because he is not also clawing at me. Vet replied to my email- he suggested I get an AlphaTrak2 because he can't advise me because 'there are no studies that support the glucometer that I am using in cats', that I should bring Storm in for a fructosamine test, that what I am noticing in legs could be arthritis or something else...
 
Meh. Human meters work just fine. Your vet may not be able to help with dosing, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Storm isn't going to need insulin much longer anyways. :D Oh, and here's a study that uses human meters (although it does say AT2 is good when possible) www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/attachments/management-of-diabetic-cats-pdf.11641/

I'd hold off on the fructosamine until we figure out if he's going to go off insulin or not. If he does, your vet will want to verify that with another fructosamine anyway. Might as well save the money and just do it once.

The back legs could be arthritis. He's in pretty low numbers to be showing severe neuropathy to be honest. Although my kitty shows it in pretty low ranges too, so it's not impossible.
 
Will read the study, thanks for that info. I would expect pain with arthritis, but I don't see any. He does let go with a howl- different than his food growl- about once per day, but what really gets me is when I pick him up, he doesn't squirm/legs don't move at all. Need to read up on the Zobaline - my thought is that we should start using it, unless it has negative effect if the issue is something else. But that begs a question- is there a 'scientific' test for nerve damage, or is the diagnosis made based on what is seen?!
 
Not that I know of, but I believe an x-ray could help identify arthritis.....? Maybe someone with more knowledge about that could chime in. Or you could ask out on Main which is a great place to get more eyes on general health questions. Zobaline won't hurt regardless.
 
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