Glucose Levels Won't Go Down

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Micio

Member Since 2022
Hello.So my problem is this.
My cat 8 years old was diagnosed with diabetes five months ago. He was urinating a lot and had lost much weight and appetite. He was always laying down and not moving. After all the tests the vet only found that he had high blood sugar. Around 400 it was then. The vet asked me to start immediately the insulin (lantus) and for food he gave me dry food M/D Hills. We started from 1.5 units and ended up to 6 after some months. The blood sugar never dropped and my cat became maniac about the food. Always stuck at the kitchen trying to fiercely open the cupboards.He was like a drug addict always searching for food and barely sitting or sleeping.

So I went to another vet.she kept him overnight to do a sugar test diagram for a day. His sugar stayed still high, around 400 .She told me to start the caninsulin and for food the PURINA diabetic. I also started to test him at home to avoid the stress. Again no results. from 1 we went to 3 and the cat was still crazy.

So after spending hours reading here I took the matter to my hands. I changed his food with something with high protein/lowcarb and give him dry and wet food in a mix. The cat became normal as he used to be.his attitude. All normal except for the excessive peeing and the high levels of sugar (400-500).Also he doesnt gain weight, he remains very thin. I don’t know what else to do. Go to another vet? Change dosage? Please help me because I don’t know what else to do :(

I apologize in advance for the long text

ps. Another thing i need to mention maybe it plays some role. My cat when he was around 5 years old started having epilepsy seizures.They kept coming spesific days and months because i kept a diary.Doc found nothing and he said thai it was idiopathic epilepsy and due to his high cholesterol he gave me the w/d Hills dry food. The reason i mention this is because when his diabetes started his epilespy disappeared all of the sudden.
 
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First of all, that's not a long text! You should see some of the novels that get posted as a first post.

Secondly, welcome to you and your kitty. Your story is one I have heard time and time again even though I've only been around here a few months. It sounds like you have made some progress but the diabetes is still unregulated.

Unregulated cats cannot utilize the nutrients in their food properly so they can't gain weight and they continue to have high BG (blood glucose) and often excessive urination, sometimes other symptoms like wobbly legs, no energy, etc.

This place can help!!! But we are very numbers driven, which I love love love however you have to help us help you.

See this post from Bron, one of our most helpful members

HELP US HELP YOU……….and make sure you have a hypo kit set up!

HOMETESTING LINKS AND TIPS

FOOD CHARTS
 
Hi and welcome to the forum. Kyle has given you lots of good information.
A couple of things I would suggest is to set up your signature and spreadsheet…..instructions in the link in the above post…Help us Help you. Let us know If you have any trouble setting it up.
Then if you could add some data ….maybe the last month of blood glucose readings, we will be able to see what has been going on.
You are using a good insulin for cats.
Are you still feeding him the dry food? That will be high carb so will be contributing to the high BGs.
Once his BGs are more under control, he will start to gain weight. .
Are you testing for ketones in the urine? I would suggest you do that as ketones can form in unregulated diabetic cats. You will need to buy a bottle of ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and follow the directions on the bottle.
 
Which insulin are you currently giving? I see you started with Lantus but you then mentioned caninsulin. As part or your info/signature, would you please also confirm which meter you are using to test at home? I agree with Bron, feeding the dry food unfortunately will continue to contribute to high BG levels, and you likely may find that insulin needs decrease when you remove the dry.

Even some canned foods can be higher carbs; feeding a low carb canned diet under 10% may help to get the BG under control. Here is a list of foods: Food Chart

As for the continued weight loss and hunger, if your vet didn't run a thyroid panel, it might be worth doing that to make sure that he does not have Hyperthyroidism in addition to the diabetes. It may also be a factor in having some insulin resistance.

Please ask questions, we are here to help!
 
Thank you all so much for your replies.the problem is that i live in Greece (Europe) so i dont find any of the foods you have in your lists.i send you the food im giving him now to tell me if its ok.i will try to do the spreadsheet although because i have a baby in the house and work too its difficult for me now.
The numbers i can give you is from last night.before the shot and 2 hours after the shot.482 and 469
 
https://www.josera.com/leger-p722
and
https://www.nuevo-petfood.com/product/salmon/

Those are the links of the ingredients because i cant send photos for some reason


The recommendation here is to eliminate all dry food eventually, to help your cat the most. Not just cut it off, it is good to transition over time and ween them off the kibble.


The salmon Neuvo appears to be about 8% calories from carbs, so not bad but under 5% would be better. Also it is not recommended to feed fish flavors more than once a week.
 
Omg thank you.the problem is with zooplus takes some time to deliver.and from the list i cant find any of them from local stores so i need to order.
About the greek group members i can send them pm to ask them about the food?
I have ordered strips to measure the ketones.
Im frustrated...so many months and still cant make nothing normal for him.apparently the vets here dont know much about it
 
Hello and welcome. Lantus is a much better insulin for cats than Caninsulin. Caninsulin is designed for dogs and doesn't last as long in cats. A lot of people who started on Caninsulin (like me), ended up switching to Lantus because it's a much longer lasting insulin. Like you, I started out with a vet who didn't know much about cat diabetes.

Low carb food is anything under 10%, so the 8% carbs is fine to use. As others have said, if you can eliminate the dry food, it will help.
 
After how much time i can expect to see his blood sugar drop by feeding him only wet food?I was using lantus with pen and still he was high and very hungry.you advice me to go back to lantus?start with how many units?
Thank you so much.i have learned so many things from this site.you are all my last hope.please tell me what i need to do
 
The more data you can give us, the better we'll be able to help you. We are very data driven here and find that the spreadsheet we all use is a very useful tool to help us decide what to do about the insulin dose. Let us know if you need help setting up the spreadsheet, we have people here who can help you with that.

You should see changes in blood sugar numbers within a few days of changing to all low carb food. But please do the change gradually, in case there is a big drop in insulin dose needed.
 
Omg thank you.the problem is with zooplus takes some time to deliver.and from the list i cant find any of them from local stores so i need to order.
About the greek group members i can send them pm to ask them about the food?
I have ordered strips to measure the ketones.
Im frustrated...so many months and still cant make nothing normal for him.apparently the vets here dont
@Melita & Chnoudi

@dionysia ke

Hi ladies
Do you think no you can help this new member out from Greece about LC foods
Thank you
 
Hello @Micio and welcome to this wonderful group!!! You will learn so many things here and you will definitely manage to take your cat under control! You need a lot of patience and you have to believe that you can do it!!! It's a hard situation but everything will be better very soon! :)

I'm Melita, from Greece. There are many foods you can start with, that are available here. The petshop called PetPanic has a few of them, you can also order online! It's Bozita (6% carbs), Wellfed (1%-6%, depending on the flavour) and Animonda Carny (2%). I had my cat on remission with the first two of them!

Lantus is the best insulin, go with it! What's more, you have to buy the syringes "BD micro-fine and demi" 0,3ml , U-100. I buy mine, from "Harmanis" shop or online.

I'm here to help you with anything you will need! You can send me a pm message to speak a little greek also :p and give you instructions!!!
You are not alone! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you so much Diane for all the effort finding someone from Greece.
As for you Melita i have already ordered some Bozita as you said.And we start again.
I will bother you with pms if you dont mind
I hope we have good results.At least you gave me hope!!!
You are very welcome :cat:
 
@Micio
If you can give us the information about your kitty, just tap on the blue link
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.

This the the information you see at the end of everyone's post in gray letters
The spreadsheet is where we record our cats BG to see how the insulin is working
If you need help setting it up just ask , we have a wonderful member who will set it up for you
@Bandit's Mom , her name is Bhooma

If you want to give it a try here is the link which will also explain how the spreadsheet works
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
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@Bandit's Mom yes please i will desperately need a hand because i am not a number person and it looked like a labyrinth to me
Hello and welcome to FDMB :-)

This is the list of low carb foods available in the UK and most of EU. Maybe you can find some of them in Greece. We do have members in Greece feeding low carb wet food.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml

I will send you a PM with the details I need to set up your Spreadsheet and Signature. Look for it in the Inbox.
 
Hello Bandits mom! I have ordered him new food so from this i am good i guess.
I will look at it
Many thanks from me and Micio
 
@Micio what insulin are you going to give the lantus or the caninsulin , I see you started with lantus but the mentioned caninsulin?
Once we know which insulin you will be using we can give you more advice
 
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Here is the link on how to use the spreadsheet
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

I'll give you a quick rundown
Date then AMPS his BG number ( that is the first test in the AM it means AM Pre Shot)
Unit column how many units you are giving
+1 column means his BG number it you tested him 1 hour after giving his insulin shot
+2 two hours ditto
+3. three hours. ditto etc until you get to his PMPS ( PM Pre Shot )
which is the first night time test , then after that the same I explained above

The only time you withhold food is 2 hours before his AMPS test and his PMPS because you don't want his BG number to be food influenced

@Micio
 
Ok i think i did it.i uploaded the spreadsheet.but i think i messed up a little with the colours.i will fix them.
I am angry to be honest because after 4 days with only wet food and not the best one, his sugar dropped.i am so angry with the vets here.... And i am so blessed i have found all of you.literally i was crying because he never had so low sugar.ever. even his pee were fewer...i am keeping my fingers crossed
 
So I see you are going to stay with caninsulin instead of lantus is this correct?
Can you please add to your signature if it's low carb wet that you are feeding
Did you give Micio any insulin this morning ? the spreadsheet is blank
You have no tests at all for AMPS .
You need to test both AMPS and PMPS and tests after both
Are you waiting 30 minutes after he eats to give him the insulin
Caninsulin can drop the BG fast
The way you set up the spreadsheet looks fine
 
Ι think i will change to lantus to see what will happen.
The food im giving him now is with 8 % carbs.i will give him with lower tomorrow.
I give him injections every 12 hours but mornings i cant test him. only weekends where i dont work unfortunately.
I need to wait 30min? Ok i will.
I will test him again after 2 hours.
 
Ι think i will change to lantus to see what will happen.
The food im giving him now is with 8 % carbs.i will give him with lower tomorrow.
I give him injections every 12 hours but mornings i cant test him. only weekends where i dont work unfortunately.
I need to wait 30min? Ok i will.
I will test him again after 2 hours.

@Micio
If you change back to lantus please ask how many units you should start with
How many units are you giving him in the morning?
Maybe you should stay with the 8% carbs since you say you can't do any tests during the week, I'm really not sure but we can ask
What time do you get home from work ?
What are the times you inject every 12 hours
Can't you even just get the one test in at AMPS? It's very important god forbid his BG is too low to give him insulin and he drops very low and you leave for work you don't want a hypo episode
You need to get more tests in at night , just not a +2
Keeping him in these high numbers isn't good
Did you give him insulin in the morning 3-28? if you did can you fill it in on your spreadsheet and all the other mornings where there is nothing
Are you leaving him food out for him while you're at work?
So he's off all dry food completely?
Yes you have to wait 30 minutes after he's done eating his morning and evening meal
Do you have syringes if you switch back to lantus?
If you are using the lantus pens you can only adjust by whole units
We increase or decrease by 0.25 units ,that's why we use the syringes

I just noticed on your spreadsheet you are not testing Evert day looks like you are testing only once a month, why is that?
I see @Melita & Chnoudi told you where to buy the syringes in her post above
Melita in case she needs to buy the syringes can you post the link for them


to buy the syringes "BD micro-fine and demi" 0,3ml , U-100. I buy mine, from "Harmanis" shop or online.
I googled Harmanis and I didn't see anything , is Harmanis a pharmacy ? Can you please post the link for the syringes

Thanks so much
 
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Goodmorning! i will try to answer every question one by one.so...:)

Obviously i will ask how to start again with the Lantus.Now im waiting to see how he will adjust with the wet food and the canin.
I give him 3units in the morning and 3 at night (8AM - 8PM)
I come back at 3pm from work
I have my mom at home to keep my baby at mornings so she looks after for my cat too.But she cant test.
In the past i was taking him to the vets every 10-15days to check his sugar.Thats why there are so many blanks at the spreadsheet.I started testing him at home this month.And he doesnt like it very much so im trying to find ways to get him used to it.And me too. For example last night it was a disaster because i couldt get blood out from his ear the second time.So he got angry and left.Sometimes i get it with the first try and sometimes is a completely failure.So its hard to get him back to try again because im scared he wouldnt want it again ever.
Obviously he has food and water when im out.
Yes from last Friday he is out of dry food completly. And he has change completely.In the good way.
Now im using the U100 0.5ml syringes. So i need to buy the U100 0.3ml?
Harmanis is like a superstore.But i buy them from a drugstore thats not a problem.And yes we keep talking with Melita daily and she has helped me a lot!!!!
So how many tests i need to do daily?
And how much food.Because he is very thin.

So i was doing everything wrong from what i have understood:(:(:(
 
And how much food.Because he is very thin.
You can feed him as much as he wants. Always feed before giving the dose of insulin and then I would give snacks every couple of hours if he is very thin. But don’t feed for the 2 hours before you test to give the insulin as we don’t want the BG to be food influenced.
That’s great your mother will feed him when you are not there.

So how many tests i need to do daily?
Always test before giving every dose of insulin to make sure it is safe to give the dose. And then test at least once during every cycle. If the BG is dropping , I would test again. If unsure, always post and ask for help.

[
QUOTE="Micio, post: 2931304, member: 35883"]give him 3units in the morning and 3 at night (8AM - 8PM)[/QUOTE]
I can only see the insulin being given at night on the SS. There are no entries in the AMPS column.
When did you start to hometest ?
The routine is to test the BG, feed the food, then if you are using Caninsulin you wait 1/2 hour before you give the dose of insulin.
Just to confirm you are still using Caninsulin and have not swapped to Lantus yet.


 
Just to confirm you are still using Caninsulin and have not swapped to Lantus yet.
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Hi Bron from what she Micio has said in her post #31 looks like she still using caninsulin
She said
Obviously i will ask how to start again with the Lantus.Now im waiting to see how he will adjust with the wet food and the canin.
She also noted

Now im using the U100 0.5ml syringes.
I told her she should be using U-40 with caninsulin

Oh no she's using the wrong syringes for caninsulin
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

Also tagging
@Bandit's Mom

@Wendy&Neko

@Christie & Maverick

Just worried for Micio it definitely looks like she is using the wrong syringes for caninsulin
In guess she is still using the U-100 when she was as using lantus
If you can read her latest post #31
 
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Ok one moment please.in the past when i was using lantus i had a pen.
Now the vet gave me those syringes u100 for the canin.is that wrong too??
 
Ok one moment please.in the past when i was using lantus i had a pen.
Now the vet gave me those syringes u100 for the canin.is that wrong too??
Yes it's not the correct syringes to be with caninsulin
You are still using caninsulin correct
Edit this is from the caninsulin sticky
Caninsulin (Vetsulin) is s a ‘U40’ insulin (40 units of insulin per ml). If using syringes please make certain that these are also ‘U40’. Try to get U40 syringes with half-unit markings.
 
C
The vet told me to.ok so with the syringes im using now i give him too much or to low insulin? And with the u40 how much insulin i must give him?
can
you take a pic of the U-100 syringes you are using now and show us where you are filling the insulin to on it
I would have to ask some other members about how many units you should be giving when you get the correct syringes

Edit I can't believe the vet said it was OK to use U-100 syringes with caninsulin
 
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C
can
you take a pic of the U-100 syringes you are using now and show us where you are filling the insulin to on it
I would have to ask some other members about how many units you should be giving when you get the correct syringes
How i can upload a pic here? It doesnt let me to
 
Here is the link for the U-100 syringes she has been using for caninsulin So you are giving 3 units on this syringe
I'm going to tag a few members about this
Can you get the U-40 syringes anywhere by you? Try to get the ones with half units markings ,maybe @Melita & Chnoudi will know ,since you have been keeping in touch with her ,tell her what has happened and if she can suggest where to get them

These are the syringes @Micio has been using for caninsulin
I assume she had these when she was using lantus then switched to caninsulin

Her vet said it was OK?

Can someone help her out
So was she over dosing or under dosing using them
She would also like to know how many units to give when she gets the correct syringes the U-40
She is going to pick up the U-40 syringes tomorrow
@Bandit's Mom

@Wendy&Neko

@tiffmaxee

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Christie & Maverick

@Chris & China (GA)

@FrostD
 
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