Glucose at 113 After No Insulin for 10 Hrs

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Sandi & Chase in AZ

Sandi & Chase in AZ

Member Since 2017
Hello,

Chase and I have only been doing this for about a month, now. He has been acting like his old self, more and more. My question is... with his Glucose being so low first thing in the morning, what should I do? I just fed him (he eats Purina DM), so I guess I should check his sugar again. How does his Glucose get so low when only 2 weeks ago it was in the 400s?
 
Can someone please suggest how long I wait before testing after he eats. If his glucose is still really low I wont be giving him insulin. Please... is anyone out there right now who can help with suggestions?
 
I thought this was forum was full of people who were here to help. I guess since my cat's not in crisis???? Oh well. Have a great weekend.
 
I'm still too new but I would think +2 like you were doing a curve. But maybe +1 after so if he needs insulin, it's not too far from the 12 hour cycle. Hopefully one of the more experienced members will post for you. Sorry I can't help more, only been doing this about a month too.
 
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I'm new too so don't go by what I say, but my vet told me not to give insulin when preshot is below 250 even if the cat does eat, but that instruction was after my cat had a really bad hypoglycemic episode.
 
When in doubt about whether or not to shoot, stall, don't feed, and ask for help (you might get more eyes-on if you put a ? prefix on your thread - traffic is slower on weekend mornings). Once there is food on board you cannot get a glucose reading that is not influence by the food. Since he was only at 113 you would not give him any insulin; we suggest no insulin if kitty is under 200 for folks new to this sugar dance who may not yet know how their cat reacts to the insulin. :)
 
Thank you, Squalliesmom. I was afraid to give him insulin, so I haven't yet. I fed him and his glucose only went up to 150.

I didn't know about putting a ? mark in front of my question. Thank you.

I did his reading at 0615 and it was only at 113. So that's why I didn't dose him. Then I fed him at 0630 and tested again at 0708. Even after eating 3 oz of wet food, it still only went up to 150.

Of course, I'm afraid to give him his insulin. He's only on 1.5 units but even I know that 113 is as about as low as I would want him to be. My question is.... how will I know when to give him insulin? I have him getting it every 12 hours, or so, so how should this be handled? When should I test him again?
 
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Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
Thank you, Squalliesmom. I was afraid to give him insulin, so I haven't yet. I fed him and his glucose only went up to 150.

I didn't know about putting a ? mark in front of my question. Thank you.
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Glad his glucose levels are coming down, sound like Mr. Pancreas is trying to kick back in! Not giving him insulin this morning was the right decision, good job!:)

Sandi, are you using our spreadsheet to track Chase's bg? It would be a big help to both you and us to be able to glance over it to look for patterns and trends. You can find it HERE, and THESE are the directions for using it. Don't worry, it's nowhere near as complicated as it may sound!
 
Thank you, so much. I just tested him again and the level only went up to 156. And that was almost 2 hours after eating and with no insulin. I am ecstatic. This is the lowest it has been since we started this a month ago. And even 2 weeks ago, it was 406 first thing and only came down to 299 at it's lowest, after his insulin.

I was looking at the spreadsheet, it is VERY overwhelming.
 
I agree with Squalliesmom, looks like there's been some progress and healing in Chases's pancreas! This is a very good sign going forward. Though, be prepared for much higher numbers later on today/tonight, because he will almost certainly "bounce" from not being entirely used to these numbers yet.

Good decision not to shoot this morning-- eventually, you will want to shoot these low numbers in order to try to keep BG down in that range of pancreas-healing, but not before you have a lot of data about Chase's patterns. The spreadsheet is a great tool for keeping track of all of this, and if you share it in your signature, you can get some very experienced eyes on it when you have questions. Getting it set up can be a bit tricky-- if you have problems with that, let us know and we can tag one of the tech gurus to give you a hand. Once you've got it, though, it's really not as hard to use as it might seem-- you just enter numbers into the appropriate boxes and the colors pop up automatically. Some people do more fancy formatting, but you really don't have to do any more than just enter the numbers as you get them!
 
Can someone please help me set this up? In all honestly, my brain is just exhausted, and I have worked 60 hours this week. I am learning new things at my job and the more exhausted I get, the harder it is for me to "get" things. I am very committed to my sweet boy and want to do everything in my power to aid in his healing. Who would be able to help me set this up? I have a laptop at home, and that it makes it more difficult to set up because I am one of those people who needs to see everything at once (the spreadsheet AND the instructions) as I do something like this. I don't have a printer or I would print them out.
 
Sandi, do you have a gmail account? I do my spreadsheet through Google Drive and it now updates automatically because it's linked to my signature =) I can probably help you, even though I'm not an official tech on the forum.

And giving insulin at the lower 100s is something the more experienced guardian's are able to do. As a fellow newbie, I would not try it yet :cat: My first goal is to get my boy in the 100-200 range.
 
Hi Sandi
I don't have advice for you but maybe your kitty is healing his pancreas. Glen had a relatively short course of insulin and hasn't had anything for a couple months now! Maybe that is the direction you guys are headed! Good luck!

I can help you with the spreadsheet but you will need to start by creating your google account, opening and saving the spreadsheet. It really isn't difficult - I promise! Disclaimer: I am not a pro by any means! But you can give editing permissions to your spreadsheet so someone can help. You could also post in the technical support forum and they can help you there too!

Just know that this is all very overwhelming! I was in tears at points because I didn't know what to do! I just wanted Glen to be better. The spreadsheet really is the best way for everyone to look at trends and give sound advice!
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
What do you mean when you say, "will want to shoot these low numbers"? You mean... give him insulin even when his BG is so low?
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Yes indeed! It's one of the great advantages of Lantus-- it doesn't pull high numbers down very quickly, but it is very very good at keeping low numbers low, in very "flat" curves. Once you get more experience, if you head over to the Lantus-specific forum you'll see that some users shoot numbers well below 100-- the mantra there is "shoot low to stay low". But again, it's not something you'd want to ever do as a newbie-- you really have to know your cat's patterns first, and also be very prepared for dealing with too-low numbers.

I'm going to tag @Marje and Gracie, who is our main spreadsheet guru. It may take a little while for her to get back to you, just because it is a weekend so board traffic is overall lower, but once she does she should be able to set the spreadsheet up for you (probably the easiest when you are so tired currently!).
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
What do you mean when you say, "will want to shoot these low numbers"? You mean... give him insulin even when his BG is so low?
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Sandi, some experienced members with lots of data on how their kitty responds to insulin will shoot quite low numbers (where that is appropriate to do so).
But shooting low numbers isn't for everyone. It depends on what the caregiver is comfortable doing, and also depends on the ability of the caregiver to test frequently if shooting at those low numbers. Sometimes, with a kitty going into remission, a caregiver will give teensy weensy doses leading up to that.

I see you're using an Alphatrak meter, so those numbers you're seeing are normal blood glucose range for a kitty. Very nice indeed! Keeping fingers and paws crossed for continuing improvement! :bighug:

Eliz
 
??Thank you, everyone, for the comments and suggestions. As a follow up to yesterday, I tested Chase's BG 5 different times. It never went over 200 without insulin. His vet wants me to check him each day before his meal(morning and evening) and says that if his BG is over 200 that I should give him the 1.25 units I had recently started giving him. Why not go back down to the 1 unit, since his BG isn't that high. I tested his BG before he ate this morning and it was 208. Do I give him insulin or let him sit with that number? I have to go out of town all day so won't be here to watch him.

What IS normal blood glucose for a cat? I've read different things. I've seen folks here say not to give insulin unless BG is 250 or higher. The vet says 200 or higher. This morning, he's closer to the 200 but still a little over it at 208. I don't yet understand what constitutes cats have a pancreas that is healing and STAYS healing. Can someone shed some light on that for me? Please? :)
 
I personally wouldn't shoot 1.25 if you can't monitor today. Given what he's done so far on over 24hrs with no insulin (I think?), I might be inclined to skip again and start over tonight when you are back and can monitor-- his pancreas definitely seems to have started to wake up, and you don't want him diving too low when you aren't there to keep an eye on him.

The no-shoot number depends on the type of meter you are using, how experienced you are, and also the type of insulin you are using. You are using an alphatrak meter which runs higher than the human meters most of us use; we usually say 200 is a good starting "no-shoot" number for newbies using a human meter, and 250 for the alphatrak.

The 208 is over the "normal" cat range, but pretty darn close to normal-- an alphatrak user may have the exact cutoffs, but it's something like 70-150 for normal. Our "take action to prevent hypo" number on an alphatrak is 68.

I do think Chase is going to need more insulin in order to have a really strong remission, but when the pancreas is waking up as it appears to be with him, monitoring is super-important, so I'm nervous about shooting without it.

Maybe others can weigh in on this?
 
Thank you, Amber. I hope someone else will chime in. I leave in an hour and am wondering... should I test once more to see what happened after eating. I know that Chase's numbers have been higher... even with insulin. Oh... I wish I could be home today. :(
 
Is the 208 a no-food number? Has he had his breakfast since then? If you haven't fed him yet, you have the option of testing again to see if he's headed in an upwards direction.

Some folks on here (not me) might be able to suggest a reduced dose, but it's hard to make recommendations without a lot of data so I don't know.
 
I couldn't help myself. I just had to test. His BG is now down to 166. No insulin.

Now I have a very important question. As long as I get the beep with the BG monitor, is it safe to say it was enough blood for the reading. I mean... sometimes he only bleeds a tiny speck, but I put it on the stick anyway. I hope I'm understanding it correctly that if the I get the beep, that the reading was successful.

I'm not giving him insulin this morning. I will read again when I get home this evening but am too afraid to inject him when his number is this low. How is it that the number would go lower AFTER his meal, though?
 
I thought that feeding makes the numbers go up, if anything. Yes... the 208 was before he ate. And now... 2 hours after eating, his BG is down over 40 points. Does that mean the meter might not be reading correctly? I mean... if the BG is DOWN 2 hours after his meal?
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
I'm not giving him insulin this morning. I will read again when I get home this evening but am too afraid to inject him when his number is this low. How is it that the number would go lower AFTER his meal, though?
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Ha! That is a sign that his pancreas is working!!!!! He eats, and then the pancreas releases a bunch of insulin to control the BG. That's just awesome!

Again, he still may need some further insulin support-- what we've found here is that the strongest remissions are those in which the pancreas was given the maximum chance to heal. The more time he spends in those normal numbers, the better, and for a while he may need at least some insulin to keep him there.

But not this morning-- definitely don't shoot right now, have a great day and regroup when you get home-- hopefully some of the experts will be able to give you specific dose advice going forward. In the meantime, whoo-hoo! Go Chase!
 
Yay Chase and his pancreas! Doing good there, boy! :cat:
Sandi, I use the AT2 meter as well and it only needs a tiny sample and if it's not enough you get an error message. I think Er3. As far as I've noticed each time I get a beep it's enough blood and I get the reading. :)
Fingers crossed:bighug:
 
Thank you all, so much. I'm here crying for joy, now. I don't expect that a miracle has happened. I only want to do everything in my power to give his pancreas the best care. LOL.

I am leaving, now, but the only other thing... when DO I give him insulin? What numbers do I want to see when I test?
 
Sandi & Chase in AZ said:
I am leaving, now, but the only other thing... when DO I give him insulin? What numbers do I want to see when I test?
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I'd say 250 is a good starting point for a no-shoot number, and you could start back up tonight if he's up there, but I really am wondering about that 1.25U dose. Given that Chase's pancreas is at least sputtering now, I wouldn't want to give that much insulin without both the ability to monitor for the duration of the cycle and a full hypo kit and steering food (high carb and medium carb food) at the ready. I'm not enough of a dosing expert to be able to suggest a specific reduced dose, though.

I agree about posting in the L+L forum for dosing help-- not all of the dosing experts check Feline Health regularly, so you have a better shot that way. The other thing that would really help in getting timely advice would be if you had the spreadsheet up and running with the current data-- it's just a lot easier for people to get up to speed that way. Just knowing how long Chase has been on insulin and at what doses, for example, is crucial to deciding about the next dose he gets.
 
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