Girl was 234 @ 8am got 1unit Lantus and 70 @ 2pm

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Girl

Girl

Member Since 2017
Is that normal?
I'm so confused.
I posted a hello in the welcome forum that explains my situation....

It's been a month since my Girl was diagnosed with "diabetes" and since then she's been on a no-carb canned and raw meat diet. She was getting Diamond brand lamb & rice kibble. Now I know that was killing her and I'm reading everything on diet and diabetes, stopped all kibble, started on no-carb canned and going to all raw. I see where I made her "diabetic" by the junk food I gave her.

She's been on an all meat diet for a month now and she's feeling and looking much better. She was so thin her eyes looked huge, like owl eyes. It shows in her photo here. Now she's getting no carbs, NO sugar, so I don't understand why she needs insulin. I'm supposed to give her 1 1/2 of glargine/lantus 2x a day but I didn't because she's been on an all meat diet. I gave it to her the first week because her blood glucose (BG) test was 599. It was the test that measures the whole month or two. The vet told me not to do testing at home because it would jack up her readings. I don't trust doctors. There's too much money in sick people and animals and none if we're well!
After looking at how many tests everyone does at home in here I decided I need to at least try to do it, and after trying a few times unsuccessfully, I finally got it done this morning and it was 234, so I gave her 1 unit of lantus. I'm not sure what to do next. Her BG went down a lot from when she was diagnosed at 599 but it's still high and I don't understand why. I don't want to hurt her any more than I have already.

Thank You!
 
I'm going crazy trying to figure out how to help her. I finally started pricking her ear to test her blood and it was 234 this morning so I gave her Lantus insulin 1 unit at 8am and when I tested her again at 2:30 she was 70. She ate tons of food for a month and now she's not eating much today. I got her to eat some canned food but she wont eat raw chicken. She loved raw chicken. She would eat a whole bowl and beg for more. She ate a raw fish though.
 
Hi--

70 is still in the normal range, but it is starting to get a little low. Are you using a human BG meter or a pet meter like the Alphatrak? If she's not super-hungry right now, hold off on feeding her any more low-carb food for a little while-- you may want to give her some high carb food to bring her up a bit. If you can manage it, try to get another test in soon-- at this point in the cycle she may be starting to move up on her own, but it would be good to know that so you can relax.

Congratulations on home testing success! It really is the best way to keep Girl safe-- especially now since it sounds like she may be starting to need less insulin after the food change. The next step that will help a lot is if you can set up a spreadsheet (instructions HERE) to record the data you are collecting-- it's not only really helpful for you, but it's crucial information for anyone on the forum who is trying to give advice (we don't generally like to advise "blind").

And, welcome!
 
Welcome to Lantus and Lev Land. What do we call you?

A bit of information....
If you compare a cat's diet to what a human eats, not everyone eats a low carb diet and even if you don't eat low carb, it doesn't mean that you will develop diabetes. While diet can certainly contribute to diabetes developing, so can many other things -- certain medications like steroids, pancreatitis or other illness which can effect the pancreas, or genetics. So please don't blame yourself and don't expect that the diabetes will self-correct just because you changed Girl's food. (It does happen in some kitties but they are in the minority.)

It's great that you're home testing. That's huge! It would help us to help you if you could set up a spreadsheet so we can all follow your kitty's progress. Here's the link to the spreadsheet we use.

There is also a ton of information in the sticky notes at the top of the board. The information will help you get a good foundation in how Lantus works. There are also two different dosing method that we use -- Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) and the Tight Regulation Protocol. At some point in the near future, you will want to pick one so you will have a set of guidelines to help you understand how to adjust Girl's dose. One of the immediate differences between these dosing methods is your initial dose of Lantus. With SLGS, you start your cat at 0.5u of Lantus. With TR, the initial dose is based on your cat's weight. (If your cat's weight is relatively average, the starting dose is around 1.0u.).

Given the big drop in Girl's numbers which can be unnerving for the caregiver, you may want to think about reducing Girl's dose. In all likelihood, her numbers will bounce up after the big drop but the bounce will clear in a few days.

Please let us know if you have questions. There's an enormous amount of information to assimilate and don't expect to be an expert overnight. We're here to help.

 
Thank You. That's great help. I did the 70 test at 2:30 an hour ago. When should I do it again? I use the human tiny Relion Confirm meter with very tiny needles. I don't have a printer. Amber is beautiful!
I'm writing this all down. I posted this in the welcome place by mistake...
  1. I don't know. She loved all the raw food I gave her this whole month up until last night. She ate beef, fish, chicken and chicken gizzards, hearts, livers, etc. along with canned food like Daves, Red Barn and Weruva. At first I ground chicken wings and legs and added taurine, then squeezed fish oil capsules, vit E, B12 drops, and calcium on it twice a week but she doesn't really eat it. I tried it on an egg yolk and in ground beef seemed to work OK. Then I went to pieces and chunks of meats and some chicken on the bone.
    She was getting more alive and loved eating, up until last night. She started looking lethargic and stopped eating her favorite raw chicken pieces. That's why I decided to do her BG test this morning and it was high.
    After I saw it was 70 an hour ago I gave her some canned cat food and she ate a little. She also ate a 5" raw fish this morning, everything but the head and tail. I'm trying new things with her. I'm getting a whole rabbit from a ranch tomorrow, and I'll cut it up. It's all new to both of us. I'm lucky she's such a good eater.
  2. She stopped "mowing" her tummy as much now that she's on no-carb & raw food.
 
Hi Sienne, Thank You! Gabby's gorgeous. Since I don't have a printer and couldn't figure out all that anyway, do they sell copies of this spreadsheet?
 
The spreadsheet is a Google Drive online spreadsheet. The link Sienne posted gives all the information for setting it up. You will notice that we all have spreadsheets in our signature. This allows other members to see what the numbers are doing and have been doing without having to read through a lot of posts.
 
I just did it again and she's 151. That's good. I don't know whether or not to give her more glargine at 8 tonight.
The doc wanted me to give 1 1/2 units 2x a day. I only did that for a few days in the beginning and went down to 1 unit once a day and then stopped because she was eating raw meat so well and so happy.
I just want her happy again.
Thank You again.
 
Great, she's moving up!

We usually recommend getting a pre-shot test, just to make sure she's high enough to shoot. Guessing that she will be. I'm not entirely comfortable making a recommendation about shooting tonight without more information. She probably will need insulin for at least a little while, even with the diet change, but I dont' know about the dose. Maybe some other more experienced people will be able to say something. How long has it been that you weren't giving her a shot before you gave 1U this morning?
 
Welcome, you've come to the right place for help. My Marvin was diagnosed in March and I was so lost, this place made the real difference for both me and Marvin. At first there is so much information to take in, it's was a bit overwhelming. Ask lots of questions, read the stickies (I had to read them a few times). Take it one day at a time. It is fantastic that you are testing at home. :bighug:
 
It's been 2 weeks since I gave her insulin. I'm going to hold off tonight and see how she is in the morning because she didn't eat very much today and she had that low BG of 70.
Thank You everyone.
 
That maybe why, the 1U is too much, reach out for help. keep in mind that with insulin it needs to be given regularly, and not based on high numbers. It's good not to shoot tonight. We are here to help if you need tomorrow. If you are having a hard time setting up the spreadsheet let us know we can try and help, and also get it added to you signature.
 
She was 354 this am. I gave her 1 unit of glargine. It doesn't peak for 6 hours in cats too, right? If I tell the vet this he'll want her on fast acting insulin and glargine. I still can't figure out the spreadsheet.
 
Nan, What did you do to help Amber? Amber's high/low BG levels a few months ago looks like Girls now. Amber leveled off? She's- dare I say- "cured"? How did she go from being so unstable to stable? Thanks for being here.
Good on you!
 
Hey there--

I got really lucky with Amber-- she took a few months, but ended up sliding right into remission with hardly any issues. I didn't do anything special other than track her BGs and adjust her dose downward when she "told" me she needed less insulin. If only that happened with every cat!

The thing we want to do with Girl is to find a dose that you can give her consistently twice a day so that we can give her pancreas the support it needs to (hopefully) do some healing. We'll see how she does on 1U today. Have you had a chance to look at some of the "stickies" on the dosing procedures we use here, Tight Regulation and Start Low, Go Slow?

I'm going to tag @Marje and Gracie -- she might have some ideas about dosing for Girlie, and is also our resident spreadsheet guru, so she may be able to help you with that, too!
 
That's awesome Nan. I love to hear that. It gives me hope. I will do my best. I saw how you were very diligent testing and lowering and raising her insulin. Did you only use lantus? I thought it was long acting. That's why it's important to stay regular with their food and insulin. I'm not good at navigating this website. I haven't seen stickies and I'm on a mac, so all the instructions for the SS don't apply. I don't see what they say to look for.
I think I need help getting blood. I have ultra thin prickers and prick the side of the inside of her ear but only get blood 1 time out of 3 tries. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.
 
What is Amber eating? Girl's going back to mostly good canned food, like Red Barn and Weruva because she wont eat raw chicken, which surprises me because she LOVED it, but she's eating raw fish. Cats are so SO picky.
 
I think your steady diligence with giving the right amount of insulin to BG is what cured her. XO
 
does it

OH MY, he needs a lot of blood for that meter. I just need a TINY speck of blood for this one.
 
Another thing she does that may be related is "mowing" her tummy and back legs. Is this because of neuropathy or an irritable stomach? Would B vit shots help?
 
Girl said:
Another thing she does that may be related is "mowing" her tummy and back legs. Is this because of neuropathy or an irritable stomach? Would B vit shots help?
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I give Marvin Zobaline for his neuropathy which is the weak back lets, he's got it in the front a bit too. He doesn't meow more, but all cats are different, he will not let me touch his back legs, he hisses.

Here is a link on the site for neuropathy:http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-weak-back-legs.178252/
 
Girl said:
She was 354 this am. I gave her 1 unit of glargine. It doesn't peak for 6 hours in cats too, right? If I tell the vet this he'll want her on fast acting insulin and glargine. I still can't figure out the spreadsheet.
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The peak is around +6, +7, some cats its earlier some later, typically giving two types of insulin I have only seen that with high dose kitties. Mind you someone with more experience may have seen something different. I would not worry about that right now. those preshot numbers settle down once you get to a good dose for you cat, and he gets used to better numbers.

Example of an ACTIVE, but NOT necessarily typical Lantus cycle:
NOTE: Until kitty is pretty well regulated, the description below is NOT not what you'd consider a "typical" Lantus cycle. It takes time and patience for kitty to achieve a "typical" cycle! The example below is what you're working towards (a nice shallow curve). A relatively flat cycle is the ultimate goal.

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. Onset begins around +2 for most cats. You'll probably see an active cycle if the +2 is the same/similar OR lowerthan the preshot number. Continue testing!
+3 - Often lower than the PreShot number.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle. NOTE: ECID. Not every cat has a mid-cycle nadir. Adjust the hours on this example to fit your cat.)
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.
 
Girl said:
I think I need help getting blood. I have ultra thin prickers and prick the side of the inside of her ear but only get blood 1 time out of 3 tries. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.
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What size gauge lancets are you using? I think ultra thin lancets are 30 or 33g which is pretty thin. We usually recommend starting with 26 or 28gauge, which are thicker. Smaller number means thicker. Make sure she's hydrated and the ear is warmed. At minimum you'll want to test her AMPS and PMPS (morning and evening preshot tests with no food eaten 2 hours prior to this time) and grab any tests in between (mid cycles) whenever you can. For neuropathy, B12 shots are Cyanocobalamin which are not as helpful for neuropathy/nerve damage. You'll want to look for Methylcobalamin B12 like the Zobaline Nat mentioned. The best thing for neuropathy is getting BG (blood glucose) under control, not necessarily regulated, but controlled :). Keep in mind, nerves are one of the slowest things to heal in any animal.

Try to get your Spreadsheet setup so we can easily look at her numbers. Nan and Sienne gave you the link to the instructions for the spreadsheet. If you need help, just ask :). Let's also get your Signature setup, it's also where the Spreadsheet link will go: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/
 
Thanks Nat. I like that 12 hour BG/lantus cycle. I'm going to check her now because it's been 6 hours since she got the shot. I don't think it's necessary to check every hour, and this chart agrees with me.
 
Girl said:
Is it important for them to eat 6 hours after giving lantus?
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I know that folks here recommend many small meals during the day. I just started doing this and am still trying to figure out what the best times are for my cat. I think it depends on your cat. The main rule is that they should not be given any food 2 hours before there pre-shot BG.
 
Her 6 hour after glargine BG is 250! I'll have to take it again tonight around 8 to see if I need to give her another unit.
 
I got a printer from the thrift store, so now I'm going to try to figure out the spread sheet.
 
Girl said:
I got a printer from the thrift store, so now I'm going to try to figure out the spread sheet.
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unfortunately the spread sheet is an online tool. The printer isn't going to help. Is there any one you know that could help you with your computer to set it up? I know all these computer tool can be confusing if you are not used to it.
 
Vet said to give 1 1/2 units lantus 2x a day, but I haven't been giving her any for 2 weeks because she was eating raw food and happy. Now she's back to being sick and not eating raw, so I started testing her and now I believe she needs insulin. I couldn't believe it before yesterday.
 
I see, now you will need to be consistent. Stay at the 1unit, morning and evening 12 hours apart. don't adjust the dose, I suggest to start that you use the SLGS method, you hold the dose for 7 days, unless she has a BG of 90 or below. Then you reduce the next dose by .25. It's important to be consistent, you don't want to stop insulin until she is in remission, or unless it is NOT safe to give her a shot. We can help guide you with that, as you are testing at home.

Since you don't have the spreadsheet up and running yet, if you can at least post her numbers in the title for the day or here that helps. We can at least guide you if numbers are low, once we can see the spread sheet on your signature then we can review the numbers with you once there is enough data to see what's going on with your baby. If you don't have anyone that can help setup the spreadsheet for you at home, I think someone mentioned they knew a member that is good at it that can help, we can try and reach out and see what we can do.

AMPS: XX
+ X: XX
etc...
PMPS: XX

Don't worry, we will get you there and help the best we can.
 
Ok, since that was on 1 unit, we should keep a good eye on her BG, as that was a low number and 1 unit maybe too much. The higher numbers today maybe a bounce caused by the low BG of 70 yesterday. If you can try and take another BG it would be good to see which direction she is going before her PM shot.
 
No, the printer doesn't work, and I have no one to help me. I'll try again later. I'm really overwhelmed with all of this right now.
THANK YOU. I'm sure you need a break from me too.
 
Girl said:
OK. I will definitely do a test before giving her anything. I'm reading the stickies. It's a lot to learn.
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remember you don't need to memorize everything all at once, that would be too much. One step at a time, and ask quetions on here, people will help. Vent too if you have too, many times I was on here in tears the first month or so after my Marvin was Dx.
 
Hi and welcome!!

Take a big breath and we will help you through all of this, a little step at a time, first lets make sure is safe to shoot the 1 unit dose so it's very important that you test before your PM shoot, and that you make sure he does not have anything to eat 2 hours before the PM test, so that the number you get won't be influenced by food, you can post your result and ask for advice.

Since you got a low number yesterday it is probable that he may be bouncing ( bouncing is a response from his body to a low number ) I'm not sure since is hard to see all the numbers without the spreadsheet but if that is so, that may be the reason you are seeing high numbers today (and the fact that you did not shoot last night) the bouncing may take a few cycles (period of 12 hours between shoots) to clear ( usually between 4 and 6 cycles every cat is different) but still the best is that you always make at least a +2 test (that would be 2 hours after your shooting time) or more before you go to bed just to make sure he's ok and safe or be prepared if he's starting to go down quickly

And don't worry about venting vent all you need we all been there we get it .
 
Girl said:
No, the printer doesn't work, and I have no one to help me. I'll try again later. I'm really overwhelmed with all of this right now.
THANK YOU. I'm sure you need a break from me too.
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Try not to worry about the technology (those things have a mind of their own and usually like to give a hard time on the worst possible moments ) you can input your numbers directly on the spreadsheet without printing
 
Oh Veronica! Babu got well? No more insulin? What did you do? How did that happen?
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Try not to worry about the technology (those things have a mind of their own and usually like to give a hard time on the worst possible moments ) you can input your numbers directly on the spreadsheet without printing
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I think the problem with the spread sheet is getting it set up, Girl mom has a Mac, and is probably not familiar with google docs, I am not familiar with Macs so not sure what browser, and if maybe a plugin is needed. Hoping we have a member with a MAC. I am assuming that Girl's Mom computer / online application skills are limited (I apologize for the assumption).
 
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