Getting nowhere with Whitey's Blood sugars!!!!

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Betsey & Whitey

Betsey & Whitey

Member Since 2014
HELP!!HELP! I am going in circles. I am so distraught now. Started testing about 10 days ago. My Husband and I are fighting about it. He says I am "starving" the cat because his sugars are still so high. (he is a nurse as well as myself), so he is wanting to treat him like a human. I am trying to follow the advise on this forum, so I came down on the insulin because of the possible "bounce" that was suggested.(i had increased him to 2 units, and he went from 104-511 in one day. I was away the weekend, and had my daughter give 1.5 units. SO he had that does for 3 days. One of them ended up going thru to her, so I think he probably missed that one. Anyway, checked him this morning, 352. Tonight about 30 to 40 minutes after dinner, 552!!! That was highest ever! FAmily had fed him before I could get home from work, but did not give insulin. (canned food) I gave it as soon as I had tested him, right when I got home after that. Not sure how quickly the BS can rise after a meal Any idea?? I am using "ReliOn Confirm" Is it possible that if there isn't a lot of blood on the test strip that it can test high?? Sometimes there is barely enough, but it still "beeps" like it is ok and doesn't give an error code. I am grasping at straws! My husband is out of work, we are really short on the $$ right now. So I am trying to avoid the $100 fructosamine! MY husband says we don't have the $$ to do that right now. But I know his body is starving....He wants to eat constantly and I don't know what to do. He is Soooooo skinny. Tonight the tears came. :sad: I have downloaded the spreadsheet, but am not sure how it works. What is AMPS PMPS? I figure it is AM & PM something, but not sure what the PS is. Figured out the +1 +2 etc...must be hours post-insulin. I am guessing that the AMPS/PMPS is just the AM and PM BS?
I am really getting worried. I am the animal person in the house, my husband has just adapted. He WILL give the insulin, but not test his blood sugar. I work full-time, so the "curve" has not been attempted. I am working overtime these days to make ends meet, and have not had a day off just to test blood sugars.. PLEASE somebody HELP me! I am getting scared now, afraid that he can't hold on much longer the way he is going!! He is becoming concave!!! Mostly during last week, he has been over 300.....(Am and PM) Getting SCARED! PS, just checked his sugar, 3 hours post insulin...293. Will try to get another one tonight if I don't fall asleep. (I get up at 4:30, so I get pretty tired)! Any advice helpful....
 
It looks like you started home testing 10 days ago...how long has Whitey been on insulin for?

As far as the spreadsheet goes:

AMPS = AM pre-shot
PMPS = PM pre-shot

You are correct the +#s are how many hours post shot

You want to test/feed/shoot within like 15 minutes of each other. You want the AMPS and the PMPS to be 2 hours without food - so you know the number you are getting is not influenced by food (so no food in +10 and +11 of each cycle). I notice that Skooter normally has a food spike sometime in +1, plus if you factor in bounces from getting used to the insulin.

I am super new myself, but setting up the spreadsheet and adding it to your signature line will help.

What kind of food are you feeding Whitey? A low carb wet diet is best and may bring his sugars down by 100 mg/dL.....

Feel free to take a look at Skooter's spreadsheet....he started out with some pretty high numbers himself....It would be super helpful if your husband would test as he is home, it can help account for the high numbers if he is bouncing. I am not sure what his reasoning for not wanting to test is, but if treating him like a human, they would test throughout the day as well. Without knowing how low Whitey is going during the day, it might be difficult for the more experienced members to give advice....

Hang in there! It can be difficult to regulate at first and SUPER frustrating I know.....but you need to give the insulin time to do its "thang"
 
I put together a spreadsheet for Whitey with the numbers I have. It really helps us to see the patterns.

Whitey's SS

When I look at the numbers I had (and I think you have more) it does look like he is bouncing. The 104 was a very low pre shot for insulin and the high evening number after that was very high and very likely a bounce.

If I am understanding today right, he had a 352 this morning and then tonight with no insulin but after a meal 552. That wouldn't be unusual. Food raises blood glucose levels and the insulin is only going to last 12 hours or so, so it is normal that he would rise after eating and without insulin.

You don't need a fructosamine test. Your tests at home will give you the same info at a much lower price. The important thing is to get some of the numbers in the middle of the cycle. For starters, could you get some numbers tonight? Try in a few hours before bed and see what is happening. All data will give you a better picture.

And for now, definitely give him extra food. His body is not using the food efficiently and he needs more to eat.
This is scary at first and very overwhelming. We will do our best to help.

Now that I have a spreadsheet set up for him, do you want me to send you a copy and put it in his signature, so it comes up each time, updated?
 
MollynSkooter said:
It looks like you started home testing 10 days ago...how long has Whitey been on insulin for?

As far as the spreadsheet goes:

AMPS = AM pre-shot
PMPS = PM pre-shot

You are correct the +#s are how many hours post shot

You want to test/feed/shoot within like 15 minutes of each other. You want the AMPS and the PMPS to be 2 hours without food - so you know the number you are getting is not influenced by food (so no food in +10 and +11 of each cycle). I notice that Skooter normally has a food spike sometime in +1, plus if you factor in bounces from getting used to the insulin.

I am super new myself, but setting up the spreadsheet and adding it to your signature line will help.

What kind of food are you feeding Whitey? A low carb wet diet is best and may bring his sugars down by 100 mg/dL.....

Feel free to take a look at Skooter's spreadsheet....he started out with some pretty high numbers himself....It would be super helpful if your husband would test as he is home, it can help account for the high numbers if he is bouncing. I am not sure what his reasoning for not wanting to test is, but if treating him like a human, they would test throughout the day as well. Without knowing how low Whitey is going during the day, it might be difficult for the more experienced members to give advice....

Hang in there! It can be difficult to regulate at first and SUPER frustrating I know.....but you need to give the insulin time to do its "thang"
Click to expand...

Thanks,couldn't figure out what PS meant!! He started on June15th. Just started testing recently. Started on 1 unit 2x/day. Kept on that while he went thru a stage of eating very little. Fructosamine was OK according to the vet. Made no changes except added an appetite stimulant. We used that for a few doses, and now eating well, too well maybe. Changed him to fancy feast. Hubby trying not to give hime snacks.But Whitey is Just still not himself, still so thin, inactive. Lost about 4 lbs since March. So al in all it has been almost 2 months.
Haven't really tried to get hubby to do the testing. Sometimes he is just to rough! He kinda grabs at him, really holding him down,(while i was trying) when Whitey is actually very patient. He doesn't need to be held down. (I'm getting better at it now. Both times today got it on 1 poke)! He just doesn't "understand" the pets like I do. Like I said, he kind of just tolerates them. Kind of hard to explain.... But thank you for your input...esp. the 2 hours before thing! Will try to get as many BS as I can....
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I put together a spreadsheet for Whitey with the numbers I have. It really helps us to see the patterns.

Whitey's SS

When I look at the numbers I had (and I think you have more) it does look like he is bouncing. The 104 was a very low pre shot for insulin and the high evening number after that was very high and very likely a bounce.

If I am understanding today right, he had a 352 this morning and then tonight with no insulin but after a meal 552. That wouldn't be unusual. Food raises blood glucose levels and the insulin is only going to last 12 hours or so, so it is normal that he would rise after eating and without insulin.

You don't need a fructosamine test. Your tests at home will give you the same info at a much lower price. The important thing is to get some of the numbers in the middle of the cycle. For starters, could you get some numbers tonight? Try in a few hours before bed and see what is happening. All data will give you a better picture.

And for now, definitely give him extra food. His body is not using the food efficiently and he needs more to eat.
This is scary at first and very overwhelming. We will do our best to help.

Now that I have a spreadsheet set up for him, do you want me to send you a copy and put it in his signature, so it comes up each time, updated?
Click to expand...

I already downloaded the template, and put his numbers in. Got a sugar about 2 hours ago.. Since I am still awake, I will get another one soon.
He did go down to 293 after 3 hours. So the 552 is not crazy out of control following a meal?? I didn't think it would rise that much that fast. But again, he isn't human! I have to keep remembering that! So I should just let him keep eating if he is looking for it??? Right now, he would probably eat 1.5 to 2 cans of Fancy feast, which is double what he used to eat. (used to eat 1/2 of a 5.5 oz can). Even though his sugar will go up more??? This is my dilemma...Keep feeding him as he wants or hold off to keep sugar lower! Yikes! Thanks!!
 
Canned food did not raise my cat's sugar that much. I prefer to have a contented cat at my house, so I feed Dimitri anytime he "asks" (you know, he sits beside his empty bowl and stares holes through me LOL). It's your call, but maybe you would be a bit less stressed for now if you just fed him when he's hungry. His sugars will come on down eventually.
 
If his shot was late and influenced by food, it wasn't too unusual. And if he's come down 200+ points, that is encouraging. For now, I would concentrate on getting his numbers stablized and get his weight up a little and not worry about feeding him more.

I don't know if I would double his amount of food, but I'd increase it a bit. If you add warm water and make it a gravy, he might like it, slow down and eat slower.

Are you getting ketone tests in? While he is in higher ranges, it would be wise. Have we told you about those?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
If his shot was late and influenced by food, it wasn't too unusual. And if he's come down 200+ points, that is encouraging. For now, I would concentrate on getting his numbers stablized and get his weight up a little and not worry about feeding him more.

I don't know if I would double his amount of food, but I'd increase it a bit. If you add warm water and make it a gravy, he might like it, slow down and eat slower.

Are you getting ketone tests in? While he is in higher ranges, it would be wise. Have we told you about those?
Click to expand...

I have not done ketones, He tends not to use a litter box. He has been an outdoor cat. (He would ask to go out in the middle of the night like 2 am, which was most unusual for him, one of my other signs that something was wrong) But I have 2 other cats. Getting him to use the box has been a challenge. He hates one of them! (the other male) and has always avoided the box. I think that there must have been a scuffle of some sort at the litter box at some point years ago. (They have had some very nasty fights over the years! Now I have had to put one in my bedroom for him to use.(Yuck!) But they all find it. At least HE IS using it on occasion. Getting a dip stick under him sounds nearly impossible! Only good thing, is that the times he was tested at the vet, he did NOT have any ketones. But that was a 1 and 2 months ago. His sugars at the vet, were 270-3 something. (that is when we started)
Anyway, just did it again, 6 hours post insulin and we are already on the rise!!! :-x It is 327. And he is eating again! nailbite_smile Shucks! So the lowest was 293, 3 hours after! Now what....
 
Just keep getting numbers. Don't get wrapped up in one number or even one cycle. You're looking for patterns. The more data, the better we can figure out things. He might have gone lower at +4/5. That would be a little early for a nadir, but not unusual.

Oliver wouldn't pee while we were watching. We'd put him in a room with a clean box full of aquarium gravel and leave him alone. He couldn't stand a clean box and would christen it. The gravel wouldn't absorb the urine so we could swoop in and get our sample.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Just keep getting numbers. Don't get wrapped up in one number or even one cycle. You're looking for patterns. The more data, the better we can figure out things. He might have gone lower at +4/5. That would be a little early for a nadir, but not unusual.

Oliver wouldn't pee while we were watching. We'd put him in a room with a clean box full of aquarium gravel and leave him alone. He couldn't stand a clean box and would christen it. The gravel wouldn't absorb the urine so we could swoop in and get our sample.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your encouragement! Must get to bed. 4:30 comes early! Will see what tomorrow brings! :-|
 
The nadir, or lowest glucose, is roughly +5 to +7 hours after the shot.

There are home blood ketone meters, however, they are pricey to get and use. For those who have had a cat in diabetic ketoacidosis, they can be worth stretching the budget to have them.

You might take a look at my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some supplemental methods for assessing Whitey.
 
Bring it up. On the Left hand side, choose File, the Publish, Republish and Start Publishing. This will bring up an url in the box. Highlight and copy it.

Then go back to the forum to Owner Control Panel and choose Edit Signature. In that box, paste the url.

If you want it to say Whitey's SS,

In front of the long url, put this. Whitey's SS [\url]

then choose Submit.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Bring it up. On the Left hand side, choose File, the Publish, Republish and Start Publishing. This will bring up an url in the box. Highlight and copy it.

Then go back to the forum to Owner Control Panel and choose Edit Signature. In that box, paste the url.

If you want it to say Whitey's SS,

In front of the long url, put this. Whitey's SS [\url]

then choose Submit.
Click to expand...

Hello, Thanks for that info. Let me know if the Whitey's spreadsheet shows up in my signature. I am still trying to navigate this forum! ;-) :smile: I am trying to be patient, but I feel like I am getting no where! Each time I think I made some headway, another high sugar comes about. :YMSIGH:
 
You are so close. There is an html at the end of the long url, as in

output=html] Whitey's SS [/url]

When you copied the long url, that part was probably on the very last line and you just didn't get it highlighted.

So, go back to your signature and add the

=html

Then it should work!

Sorry, this has been so complicated. Hope it works now!
 
Your last back slash is going the wrong direction at the very end. It should be [/url] not [\url]. I know ridiculous.....I had it wrong on one of my posts to you.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Your last back slash is going the wrong direction at the very end. It should be [/url] not [\url]. I know ridiculous.....I had it wrong on one of my posts to you.
Click to expand...
Haha, I think I copied and pasted yours! I'll try again!
 
It works! Hurray!! It does look like he is pretty high and flat. If he has any access to dry food, that can make a big difference sending the numbers up. Can you get it out of the house? If your other cat(s) can eat wet low carb, they will be much less likely to become diabetic.

I would think it would be safe to increase to 2.25 on those pink and red preshots. When you get a yellow preshot, it might be good to go down to 1.75 or 2. With ProZinc you can shoot different doses based on the preshots and midcycle numbers, if you need to.

Keep collecting those numbers. His patterns should become clearer once you fill in that spreadsheet. You're doing a great job testing. Now to fine tune.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It works! Hurray!! It does look like he is pretty high and flat. If he has any access to dry food, that can make a big difference sending the numbers up. Can you get it out of the house? If your other cat(s) can eat wet low carb, they will be much less likely to become diabetic.

I would think it would be safe to increase to 2.25 on those pink and red preshots. When you get a yellow preshot, it might be good to go down to 1.75 or 2. With ProZinc you can shoot different doses based on the preshots and midcycle numbers, if you need to.

Keep collecting those numbers. His patterns should become clearer once you fill in that spreadsheet. You're doing a great job testing. Now to fine tune.[/quote

Unfortunately didn't see this till after the morning test, food, and shot. The hard food is now in containers that the other cat can't get into. I guess the only good news about that was that it was prescription food. I am not really sure Whitey got any of it, based on the numbers that I have here. His blood sugar was about the same this morning. I was just telling my husband that I am going to try to get them all onto the canned stuff after I use up all this hard food. They have all been accustomed to having hard food in the morning and canned at night, but hopefully I can switch the other 2 as well. SO he only got 2 units this morning again, now he is outside doing his thing. I wait for him to come back, and then will probably go back to sleep since it is the weekend! LOL (I hate mornings, but am trying to keep him on the schedule that he has during the week! BTW, I bought some "Raw" diet for cats called "Freshpet Vital grain free." It's refrigerated, and It is 90% chicken , chicken liver, ocean whitefish and egg. 6% vegetables, no grain. The veggies are carrots, peas, spinach, peafiber, then added vitamins etc...Have you heard of this one? Wasn't sure about the carrots, but it seemed like a very small amount. Just wondering how to count carbs for cats! Anyway, I will try to drop tonights dose back, and add a little more in the morning starting tomorrow. I am not sure i will ever get ketones. I tried to bring him to the litter box this morning and he growled at me the whole time!! Then jumped right out, ran downstairs, and back to the door scratching at the rug in front of it to say, "let me out!!" This is his usual routine. Thank you for your help! Glad the spreadsheet finally got out there. Now if I can find a smaller picture of hime to upload. Apparently, mine is too many KB! Betsey
Click to expand...
 
Betseyrn said:
Unfortunately didn't see this till after the morning test, food, and shot. The hard food is now in containers that the other cat can't get into. I guess the only good news about that was that it was prescription food. I am not really sure Whitey got any of it, based on the numbers that I have here. His blood sugar was about the same this morning. I was just telling my husband that I am going to try to get them all onto the canned stuff after I use up all this hard food. They have all been accustomed to having hard food in the morning and canned at night, but hopefully I can switch the other 2 as well. SO he only got 2 units this morning again, now he is outside doing his thing. I wait for him to come back, and then will probably go back to sleep since it is the weekend! LOL (I hate mornings, but am trying to keep him on the schedule that he has during the week! BTW, I bought some "Raw" diet for cats called "Freshpet Vital grain free." It's refrigerated, and It is 90% chicken , chicken liver, ocean whitefish and egg. 6% vegetables, no grain. The veggies are carrots, peas, spinach, peafiber, then added vitamins etc...Have you heard of this one? Wasn't sure about the carrots, but it seemed like a very small amount. Just wondering how to count carbs for cats! Anyway, I will try to drop tonights dose back, and add a little more in the morning starting tomorrow. I am not sure i will ever get ketones. I tried to bring him to the litter box this morning and he growled at me the whole time!! Then jumped right out, ran downstairs, and back to the door scratching at the rug in front of it to say, "let me out!!" This is his usual routine. Thank you for your help! Glad the spreadsheet finally got out there. Now if I can find a smaller picture of hime to upload. Apparently, mine is too many KB! Betsey
Click to expand...


There is really nothing "prescription" about prescription food except the inflated price. It has the same or worse ingredients than other foods. This vet explains why wet low carb food is best for all cats: http://www.catinfo.org She has also compiled a food chart that lists the carbs for almost all foods: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf Most of us try to stay under the 8-10% carb range. The manufacturer does guarantee your food so you can return it for a refund if you just say your cat won't eat it.

Outdoor cats do make it difficult to get ketone tests. The only idea I have is to put him in a room with a clean box and see if he will christen it. Ketones usually arise when the cat is not eating well, has an infection and the insulin dose is not enough. If two of the three are not present, it is a good thing, but it is always wise to be able to test for ketones if you are concerned.
 
BJM said:
Peas contain carbohydrate, as well as some protein.

And, it isn't the % weight on the label that we go by, its the % calories, which aren't on the package.

You can try either one of the following calculators to see what they generate for % calories for better analysis.

http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html
Click to expand...

So I am getting confused by the calories and carbs. Some of the literature is saying feed 8-10% carbs, but you mention calories.. Also, the calculation of carbs listed on the link you gave in the last post, mentions subtracting protein, moisture, fat, fiber, and ash from 100. Many of the canned foods I have seen do not have ash listed. Should I be watching calories or carbs? Or Both?? confused_cat
 
The " feed 8-10% carbs" means you no more than 10% of the calories in the food to be from carbs. That 90% of the calories to be from fat and protein.
 
BJM said:
Peas contain carbohydrate, as well as some protein.

And, it isn't the % weight from protein, fat, and carbohydrate on the label that we go by, its the % calories from protein, fat, and carbohydrate, which aren't on the package.

You can try either one of the following calculators to see what they generate for % calories for better analysis.

http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html
Click to expand...

Thank you for the calculator links! Very helpful!
 
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