Getting a baseline for Wilbur

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I see the pink PS for last night and the yellow after it. If it’s not from high carb food it could be a little bounce or shorter insulin duration. At least he came down well, if not into blues. Keep the same dose for today while you keep working on the food routine.

How is the vomiting situation? Aside from that is he feeling OK?
 
Couple things.

Those spikes are almost surely when he's sneaking into the other room and stealing the kibble. I put it down when i gvie him his shot. The bowls are in his room and the third cat's. not sure how to stop it until I can get them all on other food.

I am going to try it soon, but I'm on a fixed income, and he costs me a fortune as it is, it was $460 when i took him to the vet 2 weeks ago, his insulin cost will now drop $45 per month (if we stay here) and I tend to my mother who is going blind and not in good health.

So it's difficult to find money to buy expensive food. i guarantee you he eats better than i do.

The vomiting is different. it appears like he's choking, but I can tell he gets air in and is trying to bring something up but it never happens. he's having this happen a couple times a day now. I don't know what to do. My assumption is he's got a hairball. whatever it is it bugs him but then he just gets over it and goes back to normal.
 
Also it just dawned on me. His 'meower' has been broken for about a week. When he meows it sounds rough, or no sound comes out.

I bet it's from all that hacking.

Believe it or not, all those fosters, having these 3 cats, 2 of them for 10 years now. i've never had a cat with a hairball. any suggestions? I read about some remedies that 'coat' the hairball, but then I read people saying that's bad for cats. Getting them off grain food is better.

It really stinks being so limited on options
 
Also it just dawned on me. His 'meower' has been broken for about a week. When he meows it sounds rough, or no sound comes out.

I bet it's from all that hacking.

Believe it or not, all those fosters, having these 3 cats, 2 of them for 10 years now. i've never had a cat with a hairball. any suggestions? I read about some remedies that 'coat' the hairball, but then I read people saying that's bad for cats. Getting them off grain food is better.

It really stinks being so limited on options
Laxatone is one common hairball remedy but it might be too high carb. Some people use plain Vaseline if the cat will lick it up - main ingredient in many hairball remedies. Does it look like he's trying to vomit or is it more like coughing?

It's unfortunate that he won't eat low carb grocery store food because they're a lot easier on your wallet. Did you get samples of the Young Again yet? Have you tried the canned Dr. Elsey's? I think you said he didn't care for the kibble.

Re feeding segregation: you might consider training your three to eat in separate rooms at scheduled meal times so they can each eat their own type of food. Then, take away all food bowls after the meal time and leave out some low carb kibble for all three to graze on. Yes, it will likely be hard and there'll be much protesting but as long as no one goes on a serious hunger strike it should work out over time. I'm sure you've thought about this type of thing but maybe dismissed it because you know your cats' habits, etc. Maybe give it some more thought? Remember - you thought you'd never be able to test Wilbur's BG and look how far you've come with that. ;)
 
Laxatone is one common hairball remedy but it might be too high carb. Some people use plain Vaseline if the cat will lick it up - main ingredient in many hairball remedies. Does it look like he's trying to vomit or is it more like coughing?

It's unfortunate that he won't eat low carb grocery store food because they're a lot easier on your wallet. Did you get samples of the Young Again yet? Have you tried the canned Dr. Elsey's? I think you said he didn't care for the kibble.

Re feeding segregation: you might consider training your three to eat in separate rooms at scheduled meal times so they can each eat their own type of food. Then, take away all food bowls after the meal time and leave out some low carb kibble for all three to graze on. Yes, it will likely be hard and there'll be much protesting but as long as no one goes on a serious hunger strike it should work out over time. I'm sure you've thought about this type of thing but maybe dismissed it because you know your cats' habits, etc. Maybe give it some more thought? Remember - you thought you'd never be able to test Wilbur's BG and look how far you've come with that. ;)
It doesn't look quite the same as throwing up. He starts by sleeping then jolts up and coughs. then he sits in that position like hs' going to throw up, but instead keeps doing that coughing.

It looks painful. When he's done is when he flinches every time he swallows. It also kind of sounds like he's wheezing when he's coughing.
 
It doesn't look quite the same as throwing up. He starts by sleeping then jolts up and coughs. then he sits in that position like hs' going to throw up, but instead keeps doing that coughing.

It looks painful. When he's done is when he flinches every time he swallows. It also kind of sounds like he's wheezing when he's coughing.
There are a variety of possibilities, asthma being one. I think a vet check as soon as you can manage it financially would be a wise move. Teasel's brother went through a spell of what seems to be something similar a number of years ago. I was never sure what it was but it stopped when I switched cat litter from something dustier I was using to Dr. Elsey's (blue bag). Teasel and his sister had itchy paws from that dustier litter and that stopped with the Dr. Elsey's.
 
I'll watch him. It's unusual for this to happen. I've only seen him do it two days. Yesterday and today. Thought he was throwing up. But i studied it a little more this time.

If it doesn't improve I'll take him in. The sessions seem to take 3 minutes or less, and he doesn't wheeze inhaling, only exhaling but it could be when he's trying to get whatever it is up. I have asthma myself and when I wheeze it's both in and out most times.

ALso, I just got his AMPS and fed him. he was 279 and I stayed at 4.75.

I'm going to have to figure out another avenue for test strips. I got notification from Amazon today that said this:

Amazon Support said:
Hello,

Due to a lack of availability, we will not be able to obtain the following item(s) from your order:

"TrueTrack Test Strips 50 ct (Pack of 2)"

We've canceled the item(s) and apologize for the inconvenience. If you see a charge for the canceled item, we will refund you within 1-2 business days.

I can't wait much longer so i ordered strips for my verio onetouch flex tester. They're over twice the price, so i only ordered 100.

even the verio strips won't be here until the 20th and that's with Prime. No clue why i can't seem to get anything here sooner. Sure am glad I started looking when i did!
 
I'll watch him. It's unusual for this to happen. I've only seen him do it two days. Yesterday and today. Thought he was throwing up. But i studied it a little more this time.

If it doesn't improve I'll take him in. The sessions seem to take 3 minutes or less, and he doesn't wheeze inhaling, only exhaling but it could be when he's trying to get whatever it is up. I have asthma myself and when I wheeze it's both in and out most times.

ALso, I just got his AMPS and fed him. he was 279 and I stayed at 4.75.

I'm going to have to figure out another avenue for test strips. I got notification from Amazon today that said this:



I can't wait much longer so i ordered strips for my verio onetouch flex tester. They're over twice the price, so i only ordered 100.

even the verio strips won't be here until the 20th and that's with Prime. No clue why i can't seem to get anything here sooner. Sure am glad I started looking when i did!
I think the simplest thing would be to go buy a ReliOn meter at Walmart. The Micro and Confirm take only a tiny blood drop but the strips are around $30+ per 100. The ReliOn Prime has cheaper strips (around $18 per 100) but uses a slightly larger blood drop. I only know this from other posts here. I can't get these in Canadian Walmarts. If you have a Walmart nearby you won't have to get caught short of strips.

That's a good AMPS. Keep this dose for now.
 
I am.
I think the simplest thing would be to go buy a ReliOn meter at Walmart. The Micro and Confirm take only a tiny blood drop but the strips are around $30+ per 100. The ReliOn Prime has cheaper strips (around $18 per 100) but uses a slightly larger blood drop. I only know this from other posts here. I can't get these in Canadian Walmarts. If you have a Walmart nearby you won't have to get caught short of strips.

That's a good AMPS. Keep this dose for now.

I got the test strips covered today. They will no longer be a cost issue. So i'm relieved. I'll be picking up a new tester today.

His +3 was 140. how should I test him going forward? just the AMPS, PMPS and another one somewhere in between?
 
I am.


I got the test strips covered today. They will no longer be a cost issue. So i'm relieved. I'll be picking up a new tester today.

His +3 was 140. how should I test him going forward? just the AMPS, PMPS and another one somewhere in between?
That's a great number! The drop was a bit steep so try for a +5 or +6 if he'll tolerate it. Looks like he's more with the program based on the number of tests I see on your SS. :)
 
Any more vomiting today?
He coughed once, but that was it. it doesn't seem to happen during the day much. mostly at night, or early morning.

I got his PMPS on time i just didn't log in quickly this time (Olympics are live). he was a little higher at 363 and he really doesn't care for my 2 hour starve out.

since his sugar was so high i am thinking he had to have gone in to the kibble
 
Yes, whole unit syringes are hard to use for fractional doses. If you want to keep using these you can eyeball 4.5 u fairly easily. What I would do to get something between that and 5 u is fill the syringe with insulin to the bottom of the 5 u Mark (ie. the side closest to the 10 u line) and then carefully move the top flat surface of the plunger to the top of the 5 u line using a twisting motion on the plunger for better control. Once you see clearly it’s in that position, twist the plunger slowly to release a drop or two until the plunger top is slightly closer to your estimate of where 4.5 u would be.

You can buy U40 syringes with half unit marks from ww.adwdiabetes.com I think. Another thing you can do with a U40 insulin is to dose with U100 syringes that have half unit marks and a conversion chart. That allows more dose fractions like 0.2, 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8 u. Those half unit marks are important.

I use Levemir insulin for my cat. It’s a U100 insulin so I use U100 syringes with half unit marks. I routinely have to eyeball 0.25 or 0.75 u fractions but I also use finer distinctions like “fat” and “skinny” doses - ie., a drop more or a drop less.
Not to backtrack an earlier post. is this what you're referring to?

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product...NUtFzXFqqFSI7BGy9Y0KqBcA_5YcEAKoaAkMvEALw_wcB

i've been looking and haven't found a 5u syringe but that would be nice. Only problem is we may well be passed 5 when we're done getting him set so i don't think that's a good idea just yet
 
The syringes in that link are good for up to 12 unit doses. I doubt very much you'll ever get there - your data suggests that around 5 u plus or minus a little is a good dose range for him. They'd be very helpful for you right now in drawing up 0.25 u fractions when needed and they aren't expensive. I'd order some.
 
Oh my god. I just looked and got my days mixed up. I thought I took Wilbur's blood today and gave him a shot but there's no way that happened. I had a 6am meeting, 99am doctor appointment, then my mother's appointment at 11.

I just looked at my chart and did his pmps and it's terrible. I looked at my replies and it appears I missed the entire day??????

When should i test him again?
 
Oh my god. I just looked and got my days mixed up. I thought I took Wilbur's blood today and gave him a shot but there's no way that happened. I had a 6am meeting, 99am doctor appointment, then my mother's appointment at 11.

I just looked at my chart and did his pmps and it's terrible. I looked at my replies and it appears I missed the entire day??????

When should i test him again?
I'm seeing data for yesterday, Feb 15. I see a PMPS for today that's red and it's not evening yet! ;)

I suggest a caffeine infusion and then take another look at your SS. :smuggrin:
 
oh man.... nevermind. I thought it was 8pm right now.

I've had issues with stress and sleep so i sometimes i nap in the afternoon.

I still don't understand how his sugar could get that high if I tested him last night
 
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I still don't understand how his sugar could get that high if I tested him last night
He's thrown reds before. It could be a bounce reaction to a low overnight that you didn't catch or he might have found some contraband. Don't worry - it's the overall trends that count and that's what I'm focusing on. BTW - you entered his AMPS in the AM dose column. Have you given his AM dose yet?
 
i fixed it. I was panicked because I woke up right when it was time to dose him. since I was still really groggy I hadn't opened the blinds yet. I assumed it was pm.

I looked at his chart and saw nothing for the AM then a 400+ reading. that's why I thought I had missed this morning.

Just ignore me until i have coffee :). i'm sorry
 
i fixed it. I was panicked because I woke up right when it was time to dose him. since I was still really groggy I hadn't opened the blinds yet. I assumed it was pm.

I looked at his chart and saw nothing for the AM then a 400+ reading. that's why I thought I had missed this morning.

Just ignore me until i have coffee :). i'm sorry
No apologies needed. I'm a coffee addict. ;)
 
Give some thought to ordering those syringes.
I'm going to. I don't remember by reading but what I found strange was, the Monoject syringes I assumed were smaller diameter. because when I went to pull insulin it was always a chore, even if I injected air prior. But with the cheaper ones I posted the pic above, i never had to prime the vial at all, it pulled the insulin right in. I'm hoping to avoid the prior issue because it wa annoying :)

Then i read the labels and they're the same

But at $18 shipped it's worth a trial run.
 
he's just right at 143 +5 so i'm happy there. it's getting really hard to stop him from eating though.

i've removed the temptations as much as possible and for the time being i'm alternating between the simple servings (wet) and the canned tuna. I hate to say it but some times I replace the temptations with tuna because I know (from that chart) how high his BG goes when he eats those. i try to keep him only eating them when i'm dosing, and I need to take them away completely. just a little at a time.
 
@Kris & Teasel One other thing.

Listen you have gone beyond the scope of helping someone a million times over here. I don't deserve the patience you've given me or the continued help.

if you'd like to give me some guidelines to hit with Wilbur I can write it up and set a plan out. I think you can see from my testing I'm serious about this.

You don't need to waste a bunch more time checking his chart every day.
 
@Kris & Teasel One other thing.

Listen you have gone beyond the scope of helping someone a million times over here. I don't deserve the patience you've given me or the continued help.

if you'd like to give me some guidelines to hit with Wilbur I can write it up and set a plan out. I think you can see from my testing I'm serious about this.

You don't need to waste a bunch more time checking his chart every day.
I honestly don’t mind checking in. However, if you’d prefer that I leave you to it I can do that too. I think you know the basic guidelines around testing, dosing and feeding so you can run with that. Whatever works for you ... :)
 
I'm happy to get any advice you have. I just don't want you to feel burdened to have to keep checking. I'm not about to just think i've got it.

Don't you think he's still a little too high though? i assumed you'd want to go up another .25
 
I'm happy to get any advice you have. I just don't want you to feel burdened to have to keep checking. I'm not about to just think i've got it.

Don't you think he's still a little too high though? i assumed you'd want to go up another .25
Yes, you can bump him up to 5 u tomorrow AM. I prefer AM dose changes because it's easier to monitor through the daytime. I’m glad you’ve seen concrete examples in his BG numbers of the big effect of those Temptations treats.
 
Yes, you can bump him up to 5 u tomorrow AM. I prefer AM dose changes because it's easier to monitor through the daytime. I’m glad you’ve seen concrete examples in his BG numbers of the big effect of those Temptations treats.
I gave him 5 this morning. his AMPS was still higher than i'd hoped for at 334

Since I've raised him another 1/4 what time should I check him again? +4 or +5? somewhere in that range?
 
@Kris & Teasel something I meant to ask you. in reading your signature it shows you've changed Teasel's Insulin several times over the last year or two. Can you tell me why? is that something I should consider for Wilbur? would another type handle his curve better?
 
I gave him 5 this morning. his AMPS was still higher than i'd hoped for at 334

Since I've raised him another 1/4 what time should I check him again? +4 or +5? somewhere in that range?
You could try a +2 to see if he's dropped a lot. That's a fairly good predictive test. If his BG is similar or only slightly lower then, try again at a time that will add good data to your SS.
 
That's significant drop at +2. Test again at +3.
ugh I just got back and sat down. i was out. he's bouncing around right now. soon as he settles down i'll get one.

Won't be long

See how glad I am you're still here? i didn't think that was a big drop when looking at his others.
 
it shows you've changed Teasel's Insulin several times over the last year or two. Can you tell me why? is that something I should consider for Wilbur? would another type handle his curve better?
Teasel is extremely bouncy and hard to regulate. He was started on Lantus but I was clueless and only doing curves for my vet - that revealed nothing about his responses. He was switched to ProZinc after his DKA 2 years ago and lived on his trampoline despite my attempts using FDMB help to get him evened out. I then went back to Lantus and succeeded in getting him in better numbers but keeping him there required a lot of testing and intervening with snacks. He didn't feel well on Lantus - lethargic and sometimes irritable. I can buy insulin OTC here in Canada so I took it upon myself to switch to Levemir. My vet wasn't involved at all. He's happier on Lev but still bouncy.

Wilbur might do better on Lantus or Lev but they're expensive in the US. A lot of people there order from a reputable Canadian pharmacy in Vancouver, Marks Marine Pharmacy, for about half the cost in the US.
 
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Teasel is extremely bouncy and hard to regulate. He was started on Lantus but I was clueless and only doing curves for my vet - that revealed nothing about his responses. He was switched to ProZinc after his DKA 2 years ago and lived on his trampoline despite my attempts using FDMB help to get him evened out. I then went back to Lantus and succeeded in getting him in better numbers but keeping him there required a lot of testing and intervening with snacks. He didn't feel well on Lantus - lethargic and sometimes irritable. I can buy insulin OTC here in Canada so I took it upon myself to switch to Levemir. My vet wasn't involved at all. He's happier on Lev but still bouncy.

Wilbur might do better on Lantus or Lev but they're expensive in the US. A lot of people there order from a reputable Canadian pharmacy in Vancouver, Marks Marine Pharmacy for about half the cost in the US.
Wow. nice to know. I would need a prescription though to order from Canada correct?

i thought about mail order before but figured shipping would be a fortune since they have to remain cooled
 
Wow. nice to know. I would need a prescription though to order from Canada correct?

i thought about mail order before but figured shipping would be a fortune since they have to remain cooled
I think I've read here that once they have prescription on file you can keep ordering. They pay attention to weather, etc before shipping. @Chris & China is the Marks expert here.
 
Ahh ok. Well i found one linked here, but i sent an email to their contact email and it bounced back lol

https://rxcanada4less.com/contact.html

I'll find one. but holy moly lantus if expensive. I was using ProZinc for Wilbur but it was $124 per bottle so my new vet switched me to Vetsulin which is about half that
 
Ahh ok. Well i found one linked here, but i sent an email to their contact email and it bounced back lol

https://rxcanada4less.com/contact.html

I'll find one. but holy moly lantus if expensive. I was using ProZinc for Wilbur but it was $124 per bottle so my new vet switched me to Vetsulin which is about half that
Yes, Lantus is expensive but here's the thing: it's a U100 insulin, meaning it's 2.5 times more concentrated than Vetsulin. If you buy a 5 pack of Lantus cartridges at 3 mL each, that's 15 mL or 1500 units of Lantus. If you give 10 u per day, say, that's 150 days of insulin. Look at it that way.
 
+3 is 170. looking at the chart that seems pretty normal for him.
Yup! Looks good. You can either test around +7 or wait until PMPS. I get the impression that the testing thing is a lot more routine for you even if it isn't Wilbur's favourite thing.
 
i thought about mail order before but figured shipping would be a fortune since they have to remain cooled

Shipping from Marks is a flat $25 (usually arrives within a week) and they also offer a special cooler for another $10, but I've never had any problem with any of the insulin I've gotten from them (and I've gotten Lantus 4 times since I found them)

Yes you'll need a script, but once they have it on file, you'll never need another one! They've refilled China's from her original script without having to get a new one every year like we have to do in the US.
 
Shipping from Marks is a flat $25 (usually arrives within a week) and they also offer a special cooler for another $10, but I've never had any problem with any of the insulin I've gotten from them (and I've gotten Lantus 4 times since I found them)

Yes you'll need a script, but once they have it on file, you'll never need another one! They've refilled China's from her original script without having to get a new one every year like we have to do in the US.
Thanks, Chris. :)
 
Shipping from Marks is a flat $25 (usually arrives within a week) and they also offer a special cooler for another $10, but I've never had any problem with any of the insulin I've gotten from them (and I've gotten Lantus 4 times since I found them)

Yes you'll need a script, but once they have it on file, you'll never need another one! They've refilled China's from her original script without having to get a new one every year like we have to do in the US.
I'll take a look at this.

The reason I put it on the shelf was. for one I'm using vetsulin which they don't carry. But if shipping was $25.00 that means to make it worth doing the cost of the vetsulin would have to be less than $20.00 or it wouldn't save much. I pay $57.00 after tax right now which is incredibly cheap. When I was using ProZinc and giving him 10u morning and night it would only last 3 weeks. But that was also $125 per bottle.

I need to calculate the differences on using u-100 needles instead of u-40 and switching to something like Lantus. If that's cheaper and the $25 make it viable I'm all for it
 
If that's cheaper and the $25 make it viable I'm all for it

You also have to add in the unknown factor.....If Lantus is a better insulin for Wilber and would give him a better chance at remission (or at least a better quality of life)

While Lantus is more expensive than Vetsulin, it's usually also a better insulin for cats. If you could get him down in dose by using a different insulin, that has to be considered too.

When you compare ProZinc to Lantus, it's actually about the same price (at US prices)....Lantus is even cheaper if you get it from Marks!

ProZinc is a U40, so a 10ml vial holds 400 units (for about $125)

Lantus is a U100, so a 10ml vial holds 1000 units (for about $300 US....$100 from Canada)

To get 1000 units of ProZinc, you'd pay $312.50....so it's pretty much the same as paying the US price for Lantus
 
You also have to add in the unknown factor.....If Lantus is a better insulin for Wilber and would give him a better chance at remission (or at least a better quality of life)

While Lantus is more expensive than Vetsulin, it's usually also a better insulin for cats. If you could get him down in dose by using a different insulin, that has to be considered too.

When you compare ProZinc to Lantus, it's actually about the same price (at US prices)....Lantus is even cheaper if you get it from Marks!

ProZinc is a U40, so a 10ml vial holds 400 units (for about $125)

Lantus is a U100, so a 10ml vial holds 1000 units (for about $300 US....$100 from Canada)

To get 1000 units of ProZinc, you'd pay $312.50....so it's pretty much the same as paying the US price for Lantus
Right. but see since I was giving him 20u per day before, and now i'm at 1/2 of that, it makes those much more viable options.

I have to also weight my tight budget too so it's a fine line on what I can pay for.
 
Any newcomers to VETSULIN???? I switched Suzie from Lantus to VETSULIN 2 days ago because I am exhausted worrying about BG's ,staying up for 60 days wondering "How low can it go?"
HAS ANYONE, WHILE TRANSITIONING TO VETSULIN 2u, EVER HAD WILD BG SWINGS DURING THE FIRST 2 DAYS?? Later on I can see it..but it doesn't make sense to me that on such a low dose during the first 2 days??? I wonder just how stable the amorphous/crystalline parts are..can't find much on research....BTW Yes, she's a dog..but don't think it has much bearing on these issues. Handling and srorage since received has been "by the book"..Any info would be appreciated.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O1YNDHz-t4REns_tbAN6D_M3AYT6_kgqbHE7JWo6kSM/edit#gid=0
 
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