General questions about bounces

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Randa & Mookie

Randa & Mookie

Member Since 2011
Hi,

This seems like an opportune time to learn more about bounces, since Mookie had a huge one an hour ago.

What is a bounce?
What causes it?
How do I know when it is over?
Does a bounce negatively impact the liver, kidneys, pancreas, etc?
Is it another symptom of unregulated FD, or does it mean he's sick?
How do I avoid bounces, or are they unpredictable?

If this is written up somewhere on the board, my apologies for the redundancy. Thanks!
 
There's nothing that I can recall that's formally written up about bounces.

A bounce is essentially a protective mechanism. One of two things can trigger a bounce. A cat can drop into low numbers. This can be low green numbers or numbers that are lower than what the cat has been used to. Alternatively, if numbers drop fast, a bounce can be triggered. When this occurs, the liver "panics" and releases glucagon (a stored form of glucose) along with counterregulatory hormones. This causes a spike in BG numbers. It can take up to 72 hours for the bounce to clear. You know that a bounce has cleared when numbers are back to their usual, pre-bounce levels. You can look at Gabby's SS. She dropped into the 30s last night. She was in the yellows at AMPS and came down into blues at mid-cycle. She was yellow at PMPS and the bounce has now broken -- she's back in the greens.

I don't know that anyone can say definitively whether a bounce is good or bad or whether it has an impact on any vital organ. The more a cat becomes used to spending time in lower numbers, the less the likeihood of a bounce. I do think some cats feel lousy when they are bouncing due to the rapid change in BG numbers.

A bounce does not mean your cat is ill. Like I said initially, it's a protective mechanism. It does let you know that the liver is working the way it should.

There really isn't a way to totally prevent a bounce. If numbers are dropping, often a bit of LC can help to encourage a surf. FWIW, it's part of the process. Some cats like to bounce (e.g., Gabby, Mannie, Gracie and several others) and some cats don't or get their livers trained far more quickly.
 
Basically when a cat gets to lower numbers than he is used to or drops very suddenly, the liver produces glycogen and other hormones that it "dumps" into the blood stream. It is a protective mechanism. As his body becomes more used to normal numbers the liver will stop "panicking" , we call this LTS (Liver Training School) , some of our kitties are in the remedial classes! :roll: The only way to stop the bounces is to get him used to being in those good numbers.

Usually bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear. some cats are stubborn, witness Tess who wants to see me pulling my hair out before she stops! Most clear them within the 72 hours though. Controlling the drop w/ food is the best way to mitigate the bouncing. ECID, some of us feel that karo which gives a quick but short lasting boost up from low numbers works better than HC, which lasts a lot longer. The jury is still out on whether HC can add to the bounce or if it was just going to happen anyway. :?
 
I think I finally understand bounces. Thanks, Sienne. I looked at Gabby's SS and I can see the bounce as you described. And thanks, Ann for your explanation. I've signed us up for Liver Training 101. If I make a graph of Mookie's numbers it will be easier for me to see what's going on.

If a high bg (>400) occurs at +10 or +11, does that mean the shed is empty? If so, that would be hard on his already stressed pancreas, which in turn would create a painful pancreatitis episode, would it not? If that's true, shouldn't one strive for overlap to avoid an empty shed?
 
Once the shed has filled, it doesn't empty just because the kitty is in a bounce. What drains the shed is skipping a shot or reducing the dose but reducing the dose only drains it a tiny bit.

So know, if you get a high BG at +10 or +11, it doesn't mean the shed has drained. It means that either the kitty is bouncing, or if numbers have been that high all along, perhaps more insulin is needed.

Yes...overlap is good but you typically see overlap with a well regulated kitty and not so much with our bouncy kitties.
 
Thanks, Marje. It makes sense. I was hoping I could find some indicator of pancreatitis pain in Mookie's bg numbers so I'd know when it's acting up and know when to give him a dose of bup. I guess loss of appetite is the best indicator.
 
Bounces make beans crazy! :lol:

Zener is one very bouncy boy too and you can see from his spreadsheet be bounces from both scenarios Sienne describes. Low numbers in blue and green make him bounce and rapid drops, even from red to yellow, can make him bounce too. We have experimented with MC and HC food if he drops more than 50 points @+1 and/or @+2, to see if we can slow the big drops and prevent bounces as well as using HC food when he gets low. ECID, and the jury is still out on this experiment with Zener. He has yet to flatten out after 6 months on Lantus, and still bounces, though we have paws crossed we will one day get to that place where Mr Ninja Liver is no longer panicked.
 
BOUNCES--- They are just part of life here in LL, it's neither good or bad, but as was said, it shows you that the liver is working properly..No on likes those high numbers, but it has it's purpose, and we acknowledge it.
Just a part of the sugar dance we all do! No worries, You are doing just fine!
 
Thanks for all the info. I suppose at some point I'll also be able to say, "oh, it's just a bounce." At this time, though, when it happens I'm :shock:
 
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