Gave Honey, how long do the effects last?

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Sarah and Simba

Sarah and Simba

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Hi, this may be a totally newb question, but:

Simba's values kept lowering and lowering after a shot of toronto insulin & 2U lanarin. (Dosage for toronto unknown, was done at vet's office and wasn't listed in the documents she sent home with me)

Chart Here

At 1:30am I gave him 2ml Honey because of a value of 4.8 (86) and he was acting funny - lying in a place he doesn't usually lie and lying in a way that classically signals 'discomfort' to me.
half an hour later I took a reading of 8.9 (yay!) now he's 9.1 - an hour and a half after giving honey.

I'm wondering if his bg is still going up because of the honey, or if the effects of the honey would have dissapated by now and I'm looking at a more accurate number? He's close to his next insulin shot, so I'm worried about a crash on the next go around due to reading 'honey' instead of 'real value' now. if that makes sense.

What do you think? How long do the effects of honey last?
 
hey Sarah, are you still here. i guess cause it's the middle of the night noone is around.

anyhow, numbers in the 80's are typically ok and don't require intervention but if it's the first time for a cat to go there, after being much higher for awhile, yes, their bodies may not like it and they can have problems and act sick so while normally we wouldn't advise you to give honey at 80, it's ok this time around.

honey typically will raise glucose levels for a short time. depending on how much is given, i'd say an hour or less. typically less.

as far as the next shot, have you given it yet? if so, you might want to wait and whatever you do, do not give any insulin if you getting any numbers under 200. it's possible the insulin given earlier was too much so i might even suggest only giving 1 unit if kitty goes over 200 (11.1)

you may even consider skipping it until morning and you can get more input?
 
Thanks so much for the response!
I realize I freaked out and overreacted giving honey. bah. I shouldn't have done that.
I actually called a 24hr clinic and they were FANTASTIC about giving me the help I needed. They said the effects for him of 1cc honey generally would last about 2hrs.

The doctor there, (relayed through tech) told me to do pretty much what you suggest:
Do not give 4am dose
Keep checking values
If at anytime value goes over 12 (216) Give 1unit

So yay you!

My regular vet had advised me to give the 2u dose even if he was at 6. Her strategy is aggression for remission. That the sooner cats get between 5-11, the more likely they are to go into remission.

Anyhow, I'm going with what the emerg vet suggested and not give insulin until and unless he hits 12.
I've sent my vet an email and will call the hospital just after his 8am reading. Now I'm going to lie down for half an hour.
 
Hi Sara! Have you shot yet? People here are all over the world, so actual time doesn't mean much. How many hours past the shot are you and where are you, just to get an idea of the time zone.
 
How long ago was the honey? that usually only lasts a short time, an hour maybe 2 i think. I have to convert your numbers.

Just saw your post, good work. i think Tess will have me up for a while.

Come over to the Lantus forum and start reading the stickies at the top. There is a lot of good information about using Lantus there. I think both the ER vet and your regular vet were both right. Your vet is right in that aggressive dosing will help Simba get into remission, but while you are still getting used to how Simba reacts to insulin we often recommend not shooting under 200. Once you are more used to her cycles you can start to be more aggressive.

2 units is also higher than we usually start especially considering that Simba went below 100 on her first dose. It is safer to start lower and work your way up in .25u increments so you don't bypass Aimba's ideal dose. it is always safer to start lower. Lantus also has a "shed" that means that there is a reserve built up in the body and when starting it can take up to a week for the shed to fill. Every time the dose is adjusted the shed readjusts itself but it doesn't take as long.

Another difference w/ lantus is that dosing is not based on the pre shot number but on the nadir, the lowest point in the cycle. You need to do midcycle testing to find out when Simba goes lowest, but it isn't set in stone and often changes or alt least varies form day to day.

ED to correct name. blame it on 3:00am grogginess. :oops: :oops: :oops:
 
Sarah

Do you have any idea what Toronto and lanarine insulins are? Does she have ketones or does she have diabetic ketoacidosis? There is a big difference between ketones and DKA and if it is DKA she needs to be hospitalized!

Your vet's instructions to give insulin even if she is as low as 6 is crazy and makes no sense to me in a newly diagnosed cat as you've no idea how insulin works in her yet and you could completely overdose as you saw last night.

Please come on back when you have time and we'll try to sort this out?

Jen
 
Sarah,

Here is a sticky from the Lantus forum that explains how to deal with lower numbers when you get them: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33862

I didn't realize you were using metric numbers. If you use this spreadsheet, it will convert the numbers from US to metric. (Important if you are in a hurry to get advice) https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... l=en#gid=0 It does load slowly and is public on the web so you want to change that right away.

I hope things are better this am. Please fill us in on the insulins so we can give you good advice.
 
Sarah, sorry about messing up Simba's name, I just glanced at the Subject where the cat's name usually is.

I just glanced at your SS and see you still have not shot and Simba is still dropping. I'm really glad you didn't shoot last night. Since you have stalled the shot when/if you do shoot again you can set the shot time to an hour that is more convenient for you. Consistency in 12 hour dosing is very important w/ Lantus. 4:00am has got to be hard every morning. This will be like starting over from scratch. I think the ER vet is on the right track w/ 1u for now or even less considering how long this is lasting.

could you also take the 911 out of your subject line. The emergency is over and that icon can give peeps heart failure. To remove it go to your first post, click on edit and change the subject line. Don't edit the body of the post, if you have new questions of info click on the reply button. That will move your post up to the top of the list.
 
hi,

Thanks for all the responses, I'll try to answer your questions here:

yes, he's eating fine, drinking less than he was when first diagnosed (So more in a normal range now).

yes to ketones.

Using alphatrak reader

I'll certainly come over to the lantus page, sorry about that. Imma so confused!

We're in Toronto :)

Thanks for the conversion chart, but it's not converting copied+pasted numbers.

Sarah.
 
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