Garfields preshot numbers?

C

Cassandra & Garfield

Member Since 2019
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/garfields-dosage.222512/#post-2487840

Im not sure thats how to post previous link :) hope this is ok

Anyways im finding Garfields pre shot numbers really bad and wondering if this is still bouncing?
I went up to 1.50 but im still confused because his numbers looked best a 1.25 for a while.
Should I be going up again because nadir is also high. But is that due to high preshot numbers? Im getting really discouraged
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Qz0e3vJAiASJFQ0KrZWRfw0dZnI/edit?usp=drivesdk
 
No I think you should have increased. But timing of the increase could’ve been better. We try to avoid increasing when cats are breaking a bounce (when numbers seem to be trending down). Since numbers are already going down, the increased amount of insulin adds more of a PUSH which drives numbers lower than what they should be. Kind of like adding more gas to a car already going downhill.

But it can be tricky to spot :)
 
Crista & Ming said:
No I think you should have increased. But timing of the increase could’ve been better. We try to avoid increasing when cats are breaking a bounce (when numbers seem to be trending down). Since numbers are already going down, the increased amount of insulin adds more of a PUSH which drives numbers lower than what they should be. Kind of like adding more gas to a car already going downhill.

But it can be tricky to spot :)
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Oh boy of course I went up at a bad time. Haha. I just need to know why is preshots are so high. Doesnt seem like bouncing? Should I go up to 1.75? Thank you.
 
I have some ideas about why PS numbers are high but I’m not confident in their validity lol!!! That’s why I tagged some other members.

But I’ll have a go: he’s “diving” and also probably going lower than usual for him which is making his PS numbers high. Feeding to slow down the dive might help. I might test at +2 and if he’s more than 100 points (US number) less than PS, I’d feed. Experiment with different % of carbs and see what the effect is. Diving can cause bounces too.
 
Crista & Ming said:
I have some ideas about why PS numbers are high but I’m not confident in their validity lol!!! That’s why I tagged some other members.

But I’ll have a go: he’s “diving” and also probably going lower than usual for him which is making his PS numbers high. Feeding to slow down the dive might help. I might test at +2 and if he’s more than 100 points (US number) less than PS, I’d feed. Experiment with different % of carbs and see what the effect is. Diving can cause bounces too.
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Thank you! Ive actually been trying to feed a drop but in the past few days his +2 or +3 isnt much lower than preshot. Do I do this throughout the day as well? Example if +5 is about 100 lower then +4 do I feed as well?

I would like to free feed as well at some point if it helps
 
I'm going to revise what I said about a drop of more than 100 points = feed. It might be beneficial to feed at +2 or +3 regardless. To me, it does look like Garfield's onset is around that time and from there, he goes down/dives.

Some housekeeping, many of our members here only understand US numbers. Whenever you add things other than a number in the World cell, it doesn't convert the number in the US spreadsheet. You'll have to manually edit the US spreadsheet to fix those cells with the errors. And change the colours of the cells yourself.
 
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More housekeeping, sorry! I'd edit the title with the date so we don't get confused with all the other posts you've made in the past. Check out the main Lantus page for examples.
 
What I'm seeing is that Garfield is bouncing. That's the annoying news. The good news is that he's clearing those bounces pretty quickly. It can take 3 days for a bounce to clear and he's turning his numbers around much more quickly.

With regard to how you're feeding, much of how you handle feeding Garfield is trial and error. There's no one "best" way that works for every cat. This is an ECID (every cat is different) situation. It looks to me like Garfield's nadir is typically around the middle of the cycle. You might try spreading Garfield's food out over the front end of the cycle. You may want to experiment with a couple of different options (e.g., at +2. +4, +6 or +3, +4, +5). If you decide to experiment, give each food trial a couple of weeks to see how it's working. I'd also put notes on your spreadsheet as to what you're doing so you'll remember and you'll be letting us know what's going on.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
What I'm seeing is that Garfield is bouncing. That's the annoying news. The good news is that he's clearing those bounces pretty quickly. It can take 3 days for a bounce to clear and he's turning his numbers around much more quickly.

With regard to how you're feeding, much of how you handle feeding Garfield is trial and error. There's no one "best" way that works for every cat. This is an ECID (every cat is different) situation. It looks to me like Garfield's nadir is typically around the middle of the cycle. You might try spreading Garfield's food out over the front end of the cycle. You may want to experiment with a couple of different options (e.g., at +2. +4, +6 or +3, +4, +5). If you decide to experiment, give each food trial a couple of weeks to see how it's working. I'd also put notes on your spreadsheet as to what you're doing so you'll remember and you'll be letting us know what's going on.
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Hello! Thank you! So you think his high values at pre shoot are bounces?
And with that in mind do I go up to 1.75 in a few days if this continues? I know its dangerous for him to be in the reds. Im so disappointed because we got such beautiful values while he was at 1.25 for a while :(
 
If you look at Garfield's SS, every time he goes into 100 or below, his numbers will pop up into higher ranges. He then turns it all around. His pancreas and liver are getting used to lower numbers -- but they are still a bit "panicky" about those lower numbers.

I never want to tell someone what to do in a few days. My crystal ball is pretty consistently unreliable. Since you're following TR and seeing more blue nadirs, you want to hold the current dose for 5 days/10 cycles and then evaluate what Garfield's numbers look like.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
If you look at Garfield's SS, every time he goes into 100 or below, his numbers will pop up into higher ranges. He then turns it all around. His pancreas and liver are getting used to lower numbers -- but they are still a bit "panicky" about those lower numbers.

I never want to tell someone what to do in a few days. My crystal ball is pretty consistently unreliable. Since you're following TR and seeing more blue nadirs, you want to hold the current dose for 5 days/10 cycles and then evaluate what Garfield's numbers look like.
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So when do we know its a bounce vs just bad numbers due to not enough insulin? Because even in the blues he then bounces back up to reds :( im being obsessed with his numbers which I know is bad but Im sad we went from great numbers to super mediocre numbers
Thanks :)
 
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Garfield was still bouncing before -- he was just getting down to green numbers. Sometimes, it's hard to know if it's a matter of not enough insulin vs a bounce. What I would expect is a lack of better numbers if you kitty needs more insulin. With bounces, there's a pattern of lows then higher numbers that occur within a roughly 3 day time span. Otherwise, the numbers would tay high and relatively flat.
 
Hi Cassandra
I will answer your PM here.
I also think Garfield is bouncing. He doesn’t bounce for long though which is good. His body has to get used to the lower numbers again as he thinks the higher numbers are the correct ones now and each time he drops into the blues, he bounces.

Do you give him any food overnight to eat?

If you look at the spreadsheet you will see that most of the red is at AMPS, and AMPS is usually the last number to drop lower. If you look at other SS you will see that the AMPS usually drops last.
I would do as Sienne suggests and hold the dose for 10 cycles and then evaluate.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Cassandra
I will answer your PM here.
I also think Garfield is bouncing. He doesn’t bounce for long though which is good. His body has to get used to the lower numbers again as he thinks the higher numbers are the correct ones now and each time he drops into the blues, he bounces.

Do you give him any food overnight to eat?

If you look at the spreadsheet you will see that most of the red is at AMPS, and AMPS is usually the last number to drop lower. If you look at other SS you will see that the AMPS usually drops last.
I would do as Sienne suggests and hold the dose for 10 cycles and then evaluate.
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No never give food overnight but will start! Im just affraid ill leave food out and he will just eat it straight away and not pace himself.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Garfield was still bouncing before -- he was just getting down to green numbers. Sometimes, it's hard to know if it's a matter of not enough insulin vs a bounce. What I would expect is a lack of better numbers if you kitty needs more insulin. With bounces, there's a pattern of lows then higher numbers that occur within a roughly 3 day time span. Otherwise, the numbers would tay high and relatively flat.
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I will wait like a week and post again to get your opinions! Im so determined to get him regulated because poor kitty has always had crazy numbers :(
 
Cassandra Kapasi said:
No never give food overnight but will start! Im just affraid ill leave food out and he will just eat it straight away and not pace himself.
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Do you have an automatic feeder? They are worth having. I always used one every night.
Sheba would eat everything straight away as well. That’s where an automatic feeder is invaluable.

I would try giving him a very small snack at +9 at night as a trial, to see if that helps bring the AMPS down a bit, as well as small snacks at say +3 and +5.
Normally we say it’s best to feed the snacks in the first half of the cycle but I’d try the +9 overnight to see if it helps. If it doesn’t, then stop it.
You can fiddle with the times to see what works best for Garfield.
 
Cassandra --

Many members post multiple times a week -- even daily. When I was treating Gabby's FD, I posted daily. Sometimes I needed guidance or at least more eyes on Gabby's spreadsheet, other times it was for support, and other times it was more social. This forum is a social place. Sometimes, there will be information in someone else's thread that seems similar to what questions you've been thinking about or reading responses is a way to become more comfortable with all the nuances of dealing with your cat's FD. How often you post is entirely up to you -- just offering a couple of thoughts.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Do you have an automatic feeder? They are worth having. I always used one every night.
Sheba would eat everything straight away as well. That’s where an automatic feeder is invaluable.

I would try giving him a very small snack at +9 at night as a trial, to see if that helps bring the AMPS down a bit, as well as small snacks at say +3 and +5.
Normally we say it’s best to feed the snacks in the first half of the cycle but I’d try the +9 overnight to see if it helps. If it doesn’t, then stop it.
You can fiddle with the times to see what works best for Garfield.
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Why at +9? :). Ill try to look into buying one!
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Garfield was still bouncing before -- he was just getting down to green numbers. Sometimes, it's hard to know if it's a matter of not enough insulin vs a bounce. What I would expect is a lack of better numbers if you kitty needs more insulin. With bounces, there's a pattern of lows then higher numbers that occur within a roughly 3 day time span. Otherwise, the numbers would tay high and relatively flat.
Click to expand...
The numbers are seeming really flat in comparison to before. Yesterday he started at 25 and his nadir was 17 in his first cycle and at night went from 20 to 14 :( that would mean not enough insulin right?
 
No. You don't want to wait. The value of having a treatment protocol is lost if you don't follow the protocol. You need to stick with the guidelines.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Do you have an automatic feeder? They are worth having. I always used one every night.
Sheba would eat everything straight away as well. That’s where an automatic feeder is invaluable.

I would try giving him a very small snack at +9 at night as a trial, to see if that helps bring the AMPS down a bit, as well as small snacks at say +3 and +5.
Normally we say it’s best to feed the snacks in the first half of the cycle but I’d try the +9 overnight to see if it helps. If it doesn’t, then stop it.
You can fiddle with the times to see what works best for Garfield.
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Hello! Just bought an automatic feeder! How do I keep his friskies fresh ? There is no icepack compartment. Just add ice cubes to it? Thanks :)
 
Cassandra Kapasi said:
Hello! Just bought an automatic feeder! How do I keep his friskies fresh ? There is no icepack compartment. Just add ice cubes to it? Thanks :)
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That’s great!
Depending on how long it has to sit in the feeder before it’s eaten, you could freeze the amounts of food you want to put in each section and it should have unfrozen by the time it’s eaten.
I’d do a trial run while you are at home to see how it is when the different times open.
 
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