? from Jessie and Griff Kitty

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primalkitty

primalkitty

Member Since 2017
posting here, too.

Hello all,

So, my Griff Kitty was just diagnosed today with diabetes. I am a bit shocked because I thought I was feeding a good diet: grain free kibble, grain free canned and raw meat.

Anyhoo, Griff's blood glucose was 540. I am being prescribed Prozinc 3cc 2 x per day. I have been doing lots of research and the first thing I am doing is pulling the kibble.

I am worried about insulin dosages with diet change. Oh, and being a needle phobic person, I am not looking forward to any of this. I am supposed to start tonite...........

Scared........

Jessie
 
Hi Jessie. Welcome. It can be overwhelming at first but pretty soon it is easy.
Are you home testing? That is critical to keeping Griff safe. There are lots of resources and a lot of experienced people on here that can help you. My vet told me on Morris' first visit that I needed to get a meter and home test. He said the BG numbers at the vet will be elevated because of stress.
I do not have the experience to give you dose advise but there are some very experienced wonderful people on the ProZinc forum that help me. I am pretty sure that they are going to suggest that your starting dose is pretty high. And you are correct that diet can elevate BG. If you change to a low carb diet then that alone will drop Griff's BG numbers and require less insulin. This is where home testing is critical though to keep Griff from receiving too much insulin.
 
You've come to the right place. I was terrified too... You'd be surprised how quickly most people and cats acclimate. We can help.

You are smart to worry about insulin dosage with diet change. As you learned, grain free doesn't mean low carb. They just substitute potato and peas for the grain.

3 units is a HUGE starting dose. Most cats start on 1 and work their way up gradually to find the right dose. I would be very careful about that and strongly suggest you home test esp at that dosage.
 
Welcome to FDMB! We all understand how shocking it is to have your cat diagnosed with diabetes It can be totally overwhelming and when you are needle phobic, even more so. The good news is that cats barely feel the needle and are usually more concerned with us messing with their coiffure to see their skin than the needle itself. There are other members who started out with a needle phobia and are managing just fine so I am confident you can do this too.

Just to clarify....I think you mean the vet prescribed 3 units of insulin twice daily? That is a very high starting dose of insulin and I would caution you NOT to change your cat's diet at this time. The starting dose for most cats would be no more than 1 unit twice daily. The dose should not be determined based on how high the reading in the vet's office is. Cats tend to get stressed at the vets and this causes their BG levels to be temporarily elevated even more than it really is and leads to vets often prescribing doses that are too high.

I realize you don't like needles but we strongly advocate home testing your cat to get accurate BG levels and keep kitty safe. Home testing is not difficult, doesn't hurt kitty and we can help you learn how to do it. Testing before shots ensures it is safe to give insulin and testing periodically between shots will let you know how well the insulin is working for Griff. It also means that you don't have to keep taking Griff back to the vet for curves because you can do them yourself in a comfortable environment and just send the results to your vet.

In the US, many of the members here are using either the Relion Micro or Confirm meters from Walmart both of which require a very small sample of blood and have reasonably priced test strips. All the reference numbers in documentation on this site is based on use of a human glucometer unless otherwise stated.

Let us know how best we can help you and ask any and all questions. We here to help in any way we can! :)
 
Hello Pati,

Thank you! Yes, very overwhelming!!!

Well, Griff was very stressed, that is for sure. The vet did not say anything about home testing just that I would need to go back in a week. I have a BG monitor so, I can try to test him before doing the insulin.

I will be going low carb for him (and the other 6 kitties in the house) so I know it will affect his numbers greatly.

I am considered Pre-diabetic, so I know a little bit about all this "diabetes" stuff.
 
primalkitty said:
Hello Pati,

Thank you! Yes, very overwhelming!!!

Well, Griff was very stressed, that is for sure. The vet did not say anything about home testing just that I would need to go back in a week. I have a BG monitor so, I can try to test him before doing the insulin.

I will be going low carb for him (and the other 6 kitties in the house) so I know it will affect his numbers greatly.

I am considered Pre-diabetic, so I know a little bit about all this "diabetes" stuff.
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Oh that's great you already have a meter. I think a lot of vets don't like to make the owners feel overwhelmed by mentioning testing on top of the already nerve wracking shots. It really is the safest way though .
 
primalkitty said:
Hello Pati,

Thank you! Yes, very overwhelming!!!

Well, Griff was very stressed, that is for sure. The vet did not say anything about home testing just that I would need to go back in a week. I have a BG monitor so, I can try to test him before doing the insulin.

I will be going low carb for him (and the other 6 kitties in the house) so I know it will affect his numbers greatly.

I am considered Pre-diabetic, so I know a little bit about all this "diabetes" stuff.
Click to expand...
Great, well not great that you are pre-diabetic but it means your learning curve won't be as steep as those of us starting from scratch. As everyone is stressing be careful about the change of diet if you aren't home testing yet. As soon as you are you can lower the dose and change the diet.
 
Hello Janet and Mr Worfmens Mom,

Yes, he was prescribed 3 units 2 times daily of the Prozinc. From what I read, that seemed a little high to me. I do have a Bayer Contour Next EZ Blood Glucose monitor.

So, I shouldn't change his diet just yet?
 
If you change his diet and give that high dose his BG could drop to a hypo level which can be very serious. It makes sense to me to change his diet BUT not until you are home testing and reduce the insulin dose. I think in the perfect situation you would change his diet, give a LOW dose of insulin, and be testing to see the result. Others will weigh in. You can also post on the ProZinc forum.
 
primalkitty said:
Hello Janet and Mr Worfmens Mom,

Yes, he was prescribed 3 units 2 times daily of the Prozinc. From what I read, that seemed a little high to me. I do have a Bayer Contour Next EZ Blood Glucose monitor.

So, I shouldn't change his diet just yet?
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If you are going to, then I suggest just doing 1 unit twice a day instead. Test in the morning before the shot, feed, then shoot. Then try to get at least one mid cycle reading. Then pm, test, feed, shoot again.

The more mid cycle readings you get, the clearer the picture is of how he's reacting to the dose and the safer he will be.
 
I'd would not recommend any diet change until you can reliably test Griff. While lowering the dose of insulin to 1u twice daily would certainly make it safer to make a diet change, some cats have a profound change in their insulin needs with diet change alone. Some cats even go into remission with a diet change. So while I think it advisable to reduce the dose of insulin I wouldn't make diet changes until you can test at will. Testing is not hard but sometimes it's a bit hit or miss for the first couple of days as you both get used to the routine. You don't want to risk Griff's BG going too low if you can't test reliably to keep him safe.

There are instructions for testing HERE. I would suggest you stay in this forum for the moment so you can get assistance more readily if needed as it has a lot more traffic and there is usually someone around all the time to assist. We'll get you through the initial steps and then you can join them over on the specific insulin forum where they can help you finesse dosing etc. and get into more insulin specific information.
 
Ooops, just posted in the other forum. I guess I am getting a little too overexcited.:eek: I just edited it to "disregard"

Okay, I will reduce the level to 1 unit and not change his diet. Thank you so much! I will do my first test in about an hour. I want to do about a 7:30 am pm schedule. Test, feed, shoot. I can do this.....I can do this....I can do this....
 
primalkitty said:
Ooops, just posted in the other forum. I guess I am getting a little too overexcited.:eek: I just edited it to "disregard"

Okay, I will reduce the level to 1 unit and not change his diet. Thank you so much! I will do my first test in about an hour. I want to do about a 7:30 am pm schedule. Test, feed, shoot. I can do this.....I can do this....I can do this....
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Yes you can! Good decision. Btw for food when you are ready to change, most of us feed fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. No food at least two hours before the preshot test so the number is not food influenced. You've got this.
 
Yes you can do it. Keep that as your mantra and you will be just fine!

'I have a little homework for you to do when you can spare a moment. This is part of getting yourself ready to go over to the ProZinc forum. If you look at our posts above, you will see some lighter grey text at the bottom of each entry. This is called our signature and it contains information that will be useful for the folks over on the ProZInc forum to have readily available so they can assist you in the most appropriate way possible. It also keeps you from repeating or being asked the same information over and over.

In the signature, we include information such as our names, our cat's name, age, sex, any other details you'd like to share about your fur kid, current diet, any health history especially if kitty has ever had ketones or DKA, the type of insulin you are using, the type of meter you are testing with and your general location so that if you need any diet, cost effective tips etc. they are pertinent to you.

To set up your signature, hover your mouse over your screen name in the upper right hand corner of your screen. This will bring down a menu. Click on "Signature", the second option in the left column. This will open a text box into which you can enter the information you want to share. When you are done, scroll down to the button "Save Changes" under the box and click to save your work. Your information will then appear on each of your posts.

The other thing I would highly recommend you do is set up a spreadsheet on which to track Griff's BG readings. The spreadsheet is stored online on Google and made accessible to anyone on this site with the link to it. That way if you need any assistance with dosing, folks here can see what's been going on with Griff and offer you suggestions/opinions based on the data you have collected to date. The spreadsheet doesn't state clock times but rather hours post shot. The instructions for setting up the spreadsheet are HERE and THIS document explains how to use the spreadsheet. If you have any difficulties setting up the spreadsheet, just holler and someone will get it set up for you.

I know this probably makes you think you are back in school but these tools are invaluable when it comes to using this site and getting the most out of the vast knowledge and support this site and it's members have to offer. :D
 
Thank you, Linda. I just set up my signature. Will do the spread sheet tomorrow.

I just realized I only have 5 lancets left so put in an order with Amazon.

Thank you thank you!!!!:cat:
 
Jessie, I know you just ordered lancets but in case you ordered high gauge ones and can change your order, it's best to get alternate site lancets that are 26 or 28 gauge. The lancets that come with most human glucometers are 31 to 33 gauge and we find that a slightly lower gauge 26 to 28 which are bigger in diameter make getting a good sample easier at least in the early days.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Jessie, I know you just ordered lancets but in case you ordered high gauge ones and can change your order, it's best to get alternate site lancets that are 26 or 28 gauge. The lancets that come with most human glucometers are 31 to 33 gauge and we find that a slightly lower gauge 26 to 28 which are bigger in diameter make getting a good sample easier at least in the early days.
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Yikes, I don't know what the gauge is. I just "googled" it and found "someone" that said 28 but, that is unreliable info.

I definitely can cancel the order, Is there a better lancet and lancing device that you would recommend? (I also ordered a new lancing device)

I just tried to get a blood sample from Griff---10 times and nothing, no blood. (He is dehydrated and was given fluids, so I think that can make a difference.) Maybe my lancing device is worn out, it hurts me now if I use it. He is SO NOT tolerating me right now.

Not sure what to do.
 
If the spring mechanisim is still working I don't think it's the lancing device. Believe me, it's far more painful to poke your finger than it is for kitty when you take a sample from their ears because they don't have a lot of nerve endings in their ears so I don't think you can use that as an indicator of whether the lancing device is working or not.

If the lancets you ordered say they 28 then they are likely 28 gauge and should be fine. Are the ones you have there now 28 gauge or could they possibly be thinner (31 or 33 gauge)? If they are, you might have to poke twice as close together as possible to get a big enough blood bead. Also try warming Griff's ear. A cold ear is almost impossible to get blood from. Some folks make a little rice sock and warm it in the microwave to warm the ear. Also try putting a very thin skim of Vaseline or polysporin (Neosporin) ointment (not cream) on the spot you intend to poke. This helps get the blood to bead up instead of spreading out into the fur.
 
If Griff is getting really agitated, try to stay as calm as you can because they pick up on our stress and that stresses them more. Give it a try and then let him go for a break. Don't force the issue with him. If you can't get a sample tonight, that's OK, Just go with the lower dose (no more than 1u) and leave out some food tonight so he can eat if and when he wants to.
 
Actually, we were both doing pretty good and calm. He was sitting in his favorite spot.......right in front of my keyboard/computer. I think he just got irritated about the "focus" on his ears =) His ears were nice and warm. I just think there was some "operator error", too.

He just had dinner, so I guess I will just go with 1 unit for now. Yes?

Also good to hear that my finger poke is more painful than his ear poke. I am such a wuss and my finger pokes hurt! waaaa
 
I would just go with the one unit for tonight. He might have a higher BG in the morning but it's better for it to be high for a day than too low for a moment. It's a saying we use around here a lot. I would also leave him some food out tonight. My cat tends to seek out food when his blood sugar gets too low.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I would just go with the one unit for tonight. He might have a higher BG in the morning but it's better for it to be high for a day than too low for a moment. It's a saying we use around here a lot. I would also leave him some food out tonight. My cat tends to seek out food when his blood sugar gets too low.
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Hello Lisa, I am testing ears, for the first time ever having to do this. I "free feed" kibble right now. Gonna stop that soon, was told not to change diet right now. And, his appetite is definitely up!
 
It's great to hear that his appetite is back up.:) you are absolutely right about not changing his diet too fast. I have to test Smoky on his paw pads. He has poor circulation which makes his ears hard to test and he doesn't seem to mind the prick on his feet.
 
Update: I still have not been able to get a blood test. I will try again this evening. I was able to give him the 1 unit of insulin...wow, that is such tiny of an amount, it felt like I didn't depress the syringe much!

I never did mention his weight, oops, does that make a difference in the dosing? He is 12.5 pounds (I updated my signature).

How long does it generally take for him to feel better? He is still pretty lethargic :( He still has quite an appetite and is drinking lots of water.
 
primalkitty said:
Update: I still have not been able to get a blood test. I will try again this evening. I was able to give him the 1 unit of insulin...wow, that is such tiny of an amount, it felt like I didn't depress the syringe much!

I never did mention his weight, oops, does that make a difference in the dosing? He is 12.5 pounds (I updated my signature).

How long does it generally take for him to feel better? He is still pretty lethargic :( He still has quite an appetite and is drinking lots of water.
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Are you warming up his ear before poking? Are your lancets thick enough - 26 G or 28 G is best (Higher number = thinner needle). Many of us make a rice sock to heat the ear -1/2 cup dry rice in the toe of a sock, tied off and heated until very warm in the microwave. Test it on your skin to check it's not too hot.

It can take a while for them to feel better. It's not instant. Their body has to get accustomed to the insulin and learn to respond properly to it.
 
Oh my goodness.....I just read through your signature. That is quite the crew you got there! Hope hubby doesn't object to be at the end of the list! :woot:

As Kris said, it will take a bit of time for Griff's body to get used to the insulin and for you to see an improvement in his demeanour and behaviour. This is a marathon not a sprint and insulin is not like a pain pill where instantaneous results are apparent. The improvement will occur over a period of time and much of that will depend on finding the best dose of insulin to get Griff down to better BG levels. I would keep track of his behaviour as well though because like any medication, one type of insulin may work better for some cats than others and sometimes a change of insulin gets better results. It's early days and patience is definitely a requirement. Here's a pair of patience pants for you to use till you get your own. :D
PatiencePants.jpg
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Are you warming up his ear before poking? Are your lancets thick enough - 26 G or 28 G is best (Higher number = thinner needle). Many of us make a rice sock to heat the ear -1/2 cup dry rice in the toe of a sock, tied off and heated until very warm in the microwave. Test it on your skin to check it's not too hot.

It can take a while for them to feel better. It's not instant. Their body has to get accustomed to the insulin and learn to respond properly to it.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Kris. His ears are nice and warm, and I do believe the lancets are 28g. I am getting a new box tomorrow and will see if it says anything.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Oh my goodness.....I just read through your signature. That is quite the crew you got there! Hope hubby doesn't object to be at the end of the list! :woot:

As Kris said, it will take a bit of time for Griff's body to get used to the insulin and for you to see an improvement in his demeanour and behaviour. This is a marathon not a sprint and insulin is not like a pain pill where instantaneous results are apparent. The improvement will occur over a period of time and much of that will depend on finding the best dose of insulin to get Griff down to better BG levels. I would keep track of his behaviour as well though because like any medication, one type of insulin may work better for some cats than others and sometimes a change of insulin gets better results. It's early days and patience is definitely a requirement. Here's a pair of patience pants for you to use till you get your own. :D
View attachment 26094
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First, hubby doesn't know he is at the end of the list....yet! :p Second, those "patience pants" are hysterical!!! :woot: Thank you!

I will stay patient and keep on truckin'.

Thank you!
 
Hi Jessie,
I started Smoky on vetsulin which turned out to not be the best insulin for him. He would go deep diving- his BG would drop 200 to 300 points in 3 or 4 hours. Next he would bounce into some very high numbers. He seemed depressed and felt crappy. I don't even know why I kept him on that for 2 and a half months.
Fast forward: I switched him to prozinc on 11/23/16 and the difference was amazing. It still took him about 3 1/2 weeks to start showing good BG numbers and now he is doing pretty good. Hang in there, you will both get better in time.:bighug::bighug::)
 
Yay!!! I did it, got a sample. Griff was not too happy about it, but I did.

BS: 455 yikes. Need to feed and then dose. Should I still do 1 unit, 12.5 pound kitty? I will feed and come back to check for response. I do not have a smart phone so doin' this via computer =)
 
Sorry no one responded to your post last night. Did u end up giving Griff the one unit? It's better to give a little less insulin if you're not sure rather than too much.
Sometimes I post on prozinc forum if I'm not able to get a response on main health board. How is your boy doing this morning?
 
Congratulations on getting your first test. :D You indicated Griff was not happy about it and that might have had something to do with the 455 reading especially if it took you a couple of tries to get it. Sorry no one was around last night. When and if no one is around when you have a dosing question, best to err on the side of caution. While weight can effect the amount of insulin a cat needs, 12.5 pounds is not a huge cat. According to the ProZinc site a starting dose would be between 1.25u and 3.75u for a cat at that weight if that is . It's better to start too low than too high.

Now that you have managed to get a test and hopefully can get tests more reliably going forward, given a pre-shot of 455 last night, I think you could safely raise the dose to 1.25u if your syringes have 1/2 unit markings or 1.5u if not. You would have to eyeball the 1.25u dose and that's much easier to do with half unit markings. Rule of thumb around here is no shot if pre-shot reading is 200 or less until you have more data to know how the insulin is working for him.

If you can get the spreadsheet set up, it will help folks here assist you much better going forward. Also if you need dosing/other assistance, you can edit the title of your post using the "?" mark prefix and that will get more attention to your need for more timely assistance. To do this, you click on the button up on the right hand side of the screen that is labeled Thread Tools and select "edit title". This brings up the title box and on the left of where you typed your title, there is a drop down box with a "?" and a "911" prefix. Questions is for just that "questions" especially if you need timely assistance and "911" which is reserved for an emergency such as a kitty in low numbers.
 
Good morning! Yes, I did give him the prozinc last night and, I did up the dose a little to "eyeball" of 1.5.

This morning, Griff was a little more like his old self, begging at the fridge, meowing at me and lovin' his tummy rubs. He doesn't seem as dehydrated, so that is probably part of it. Yay!

I managed to get a test this morning. Took 3 tries and he was a little "ear-itated" . Reading was 435. Dosed him at about 1.5 again. I will set up the spreadsheet today.

Thank you for the tips!!!!

Jessie
 
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