Freestyle Libre

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rsnyder03

rsnyder03

Member Since 2021
Hi, my cat Chloe has had a hard time getting her sugars regulated. Today, our vet put the freestyle libre on her. She had insulin at 11:30am today and it is now 7:40 pm and her insulin is over 500 and past what the testing shows. She gets even worse at night. How will this thing show us what’s happening if it doesn’t go past 500?!

She takes 1 unit of Vetsulin twice a day around 11:30. At 5:30 her glucose was 409, at 6:30 it was 459 and by 7:30 it was over 500 and off the measurable chart for this device.

From 12am till 5:30am, she has severe lethargy, pees a ton all over my house, vomits massive amounts of water and it stinks like it was digested food and it came back up. To complicate matters, she also has pancreatic insufficiency so she has to eat a special food that is not really diabetic friendly. Lots of carbs. But my vet says we can’t switch and I tried wet food only but that causes the diarrhea to worsen. We are on a catch 22 here and I am trying my best but dialing at every turn. I’m exhausted. My house is being destroyed. My cat is horribly sick, and my husband is about to divorce me for all the money I’ve spent trying to save her.
 
Hi :bighug::bighug::bighug: So sorry you all are having a hard time. I have never used Vetsulin but understand it hits hard and fast - if you are shooting at 11:30 ant not testing until 5:30 (+6 from your shot) then I believe you are missing the "action" of Vetsulin. The info on the Vetsulin board talks about typical Vetsulin cycle - I just quickly read the INTRODUCTION TO CANNISULIN/VETSULIN & N/NPH and the BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO CANINSULIN/VETSULIN and it says the lowest (nadir) point is around +4.5 (but could be earlier). Are you able to test earlier in the cycle? I'd also make sure Chole has food on board before shooting (the beginners guide says to (1) test , (2) feed (3) wait 20 – 30 minutes (4) shoot). Perhaps @JanetNJ can stop by when she's on again to advise when to test when using vetsulin.

If you are able to set a spreadsheet, that would be super helpful - since people are located all over the world, we talk in times from the shot (so if you shoot at 11:30 then your +1 would be 12:30, +2 would be 1:30, etc.) - HOW TO CREATE A SPREADSHEET - if you need help setting one help, people here can help!

Not sure if someone else has dropped this paper off before but could be good for a discussion with your vet - The (2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats recommends using Lantus or Prozinc to manage feline diabetes - could be worth the discussion with your vet (click that link for the paper). Where are you located (country?)?
 
Last edited:
rsnyder03 said:
Hi, my cat Chloe has had a hard time getting her sugars regulated. Today, our vet put the freestyle libre on her. She had insulin at 11:30am today and it is now 7:40 pm and her insulin is over 500 and past what the testing shows. She gets even worse at night. How will this thing show us what’s happening if it doesn’t go past 500?!

She takes 1 unit of Vetsulin twice a day around 11:30. At 5:30 her glucose was 409, at 6:30 it was 459 and by 7:30 it was over 500 and off the measurable chart for this device.

From 12am till 5:30am, she has severe lethargy, pees a ton all over my house, vomits massive amounts of water and it stinks like it was digested food and it came back up. To complicate matters, she also has pancreatic insufficiency so she has to eat a special food that is not really diabetic friendly. Lots of carbs. But my vet says we can’t switch and I tried wet food only but that causes the diarrhea to worsen. We are on a catch 22 here and I am trying my best but dialing at every turn. I’m exhausted. My house is being destroyed. My cat is horribly sick, and my husband is about to divorce me for all the money I’ve spent trying to save her.
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How long has she been on the 1 unit? Sounds like she needs an increase esp if you have to compensate for high carb food. A longer lasting insulin may help too.
Please add the spreadsheet as mentioned above. It will help us help you to dose.

is there not a wet version of the food she’s on?
 
JanetNJ said:
How long has she been on the 1 unit? Sounds like she needs an increase esp if you have to compensate for high carb food. A longer lasting insulin may help too.
Please add the spreadsheet as mentioned above. It will help us help you to dose.

is there not a wet version of the food she’s on?
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She is eating the wet version as well, but it makes her diarrhea worse so the vet wants her to be eating a wet and dry mix. She has so many pancreatic issues it is making treating the diabetes hard.

I will work on the spreadsheet. I’m very new to this and a bit overwhelmed. I will say that, since 7:30pm (USA, eastern time), her glucose readings have been higher than 500 and therefore unreadable by the Libre! 7:30 is +8.5 hours from her morning dose.

Seeing how high she was, I dosed her 2 units of insulin at +12 hours. She is currently +2 hours from that second daily dose and she still hasn’t dropped below the 500 to get an actual reading. She has been on the Vetsulin for about a month now at the 1 unit dose, but we only added the second time a day about 2 weeks ago. It began with only once per day.
 
JaxBenji said:
Hi :bighug::bighug::bighug: So sorry you all are having a hard time. I have never used Vetsulin but understand it hits hard and fast - if you are shooting at 11:30 ant not testing until 5:30 (+6 from your shot) then I believe you are missing the "action" of Vetsulin. The info on the Vetsulin board talks about typical Vetsulin cycle - I just quickly read the INTRODUCTION TO CANNISULIN/VETSULIN & N/NPH and the BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO CANINSULIN/VETSULIN and it says the lowest (nadir) point is around +4.5 (but could be earlier). Are you able to test earlier in the cycle? I'd also make sure Chole has food on board before shooting (the beginners guide says to (1) test , (2) feed (3) wait 20 – 30 minutes (4) shoot). Perhaps @JanetNJ can stop by when she's on again to advise when to test when using vetsulin.

If you are able to set a spreadsheet, that would be super helpful - since people are located all over the world, we talk in times from the shot (so if you shoot at 11:30 then your +1 would be 12:30, +2 would be 1:30, etc.) - HOW TO CREATE A SPREADSHEET - if you need help setting one help, people here can help!

Not sure if someone else has dropped this paper off before but could be good for a discussion with your vet - The (2018) AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats recommends using Lantus or Prozinc to manage feline diabetes - could be worth the discussion with your vet (click that link for the paper). Where are you located (country?)?
Click to expand...
She only got the device this afternoon so tomorrow will give me a better picture of her actual numbers.

I’m working from a mobile phone but will try to create a spreadsheet soon. If not, I will do my best to talk in the number of hours from her dose. Thanks for the tips!
 
rsnyder03 said:
She is eating the wet version as well, but it makes her diarrhea worse so the vet wants her to be eating a wet and dry mix. She has so many pancreatic issues it is making treating the diabetes hard.

I will work on the spreadsheet. I’m very new to this and a bit overwhelmed. I will say that, since 7:30pm (USA, eastern time), her glucose readings have been higher than 500 and therefore unreadable by the Libre! 7:30 is +8.5 hours from her morning dose.

Seeing how high she was, I dosed her 2 units of insulin at +12 hours. She is currently +2 hours from that second daily dose and she still hasn’t dropped below the 500 to get an actual reading. She has been on the Vetsulin for about a month now at the 1 unit dose, but we only added the second time a day about 2 weeks ago. It began with only once per day.
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Not sure why they would start her with just one shot a day. As it is vetsulin usually only lasts about 6-8 hours. That would mean a majority of the day he was getting no insulin support at all.
 
rsnyder03 said:
She only got the device this afternoon so tomorrow will give me a better picture of her actual numbers.

I’m working from a mobile phone but will try to create a spreadsheet soon. If not, I will do my best to talk in the number of hours from her dose. Thanks for the tips!
Click to expand...
If you need help setting it up I can tag someone to set it up for you.
 
rsnyder03 said:
mobile phone
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You can download google sheets app and it's pretty simple to update the SS from that. There are also directions for setting up using a mobile device (see the tablet section as it applies to a phone too). Like Janet said, we have people that can help set one up - @Bandit's Mom can get one running very quickly (and then people can provide better dosing advice :bighug:)

Also, my spreadsheet link above was broken (sorry!) - here's the full URL - https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

Apparently my other two links to the Intro and Beginners Guide were also broken - they should be fixed now (and I'll edit my original post to fix them there!).
 
rsnyder03 said:
I’m working from a mobile phone but will try to create a spreadsheet soon.
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Hi, I can help you with setting up your Spreadsheet and Signature. Won't take me a minute. :-)
Will send you a PM with the details I need to do so. Look in the Inbox at the top right of this page.
 
Hi!
I didn’t know libre doesn’t go past 500! Mine getting one fitted next week, he is surely above that parameter . Also on caninsulin- 2 units BID. Not seeing much improvement in wee/drinking… and he also has pancreatitis.
I think you need to shoot twice a day, I do 12hrs , give or take 30 mins, and I do see it wearing off after about 9/10 hours post jab. mate you testing for ketones? The vomiting is a concern , not least as that will mess up the sugars as well. Mine is now on hills M/D, am looking to transition to low carb wet shortly. And maybe even chance insukin type , not sure…
Where are you based?
 
Are you in the States? It’s unusual to use caninsulin/vetsulin there I think? And possibly easier for you to get a different type - others can advise. I am UK, so caninsulin seems to be the preferred first option here …
 
I am in the US. My vet said that she will use this info and most likely change her to a longer lasting insulin. When we started all this, Chloe was able to be managed with diet alone. She was barely diabetic. Then it went to barely needing insulin, and now she is fully insulin dependent.

Last night at +3 hours, her sugars finally started coming down under 500. She is at 363 now and having her morning meal. I will wait and test before dosing her. Her normal amount is 1 unit. I’m considering 1.25 units to see if maybe it will last longer for her but I know that’s not likely.
 
Is it normal for a cat to shoot up 200 points after eating and before the morning dose of insulin kicks in? Bless her sweet heart. :(
 
I’m not sure about the 200 rise, am pretty new to this too, but my guess is that it is possible. How do they treat pancreatic insufficiency? This means she doesn’t make enough herself?
 
rsnyder03 said:
I am in the US. My vet said that she will use this info and most likely change her to a longer lasting insulin. When we started all this, Chloe was able to be managed with diet alone. She was barely diabetic. Then it went to barely needing insulin, and now she is fully insulin dependent.

Last night at +3 hours, her sugars finally started coming down under 500. She is at 363 now and having her morning meal. I will wait and test before dosing her. Her normal amount is 1 unit. I’m considering 1.25 units to see if maybe it will last longer for her but I know that’s not likely.
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I would raise it. If it were my cat I would do 1.5, but it's fine to do 1.25 and see what happens.
 
Yes, maybe 1.25 if you are able to draw it up in that increment.. depends if you are syringe or vetpen, not sure what her weight is, if slight/a bit out of condition with her pancreas try 1.25 first.
And test her wee for ketones with the wee strips.
 
BooBoo said:
Yes, maybe 1.25 if you are able to draw it up in that increment.. depends if you are syringe or vetpen, not sure what her weight is, if slight/a bit out of condition with her pancreas try 1.25 first.
And test her wee for ketones with the wee strips.
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JanetNJ said:
I would raise it. If it were my cat I would do 1.5, but it's fine to do 1.25 and see what happens.
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It will be 1.5 tomorrow! Bless her. Her lowest reading in the last 24 hours was 299 and that was overnight into the early morning hours - +8 or so from her night time dose. Right now she is +5.5 from her morning dose and her sugars are over 500 again. Vetsulin has GOT to be changed to something else! Vet won’t be back till Tuesday but this insulin just isn’t lasting her long enough. Her dose at 11am lasted about 3 hours before she started climbing fast. No wonder this poor cat is so sick. Her numbers are literally never normal.

Her weight is 6.3 pounds. When she was healthy, she was about 13 pounds.
 
rsnyder03 said:
It will be 1.5 tomorrow! Bless her. Her lowest reading in the last 24 hours was 299 and that was overnight into the early morning hours - +8 or so from her night time dose. Right now she is +5.5 from her morning dose and her sugars are over 500 again. Vetsulin has GOT to be changed to something else! Vet won’t be back till Tuesday but this insulin just isn’t lasting her long enough. Her dose at 11am lasted about 3 hours before she started climbing fast. No wonder this poor cat is so sick. Her numbers are literally never normal.

Her weight is 6.3 pounds. When she was healthy, she was about 13 pounds.
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You are letting her eat as much as she wants, right?
 
rsnyder03 said:
No. She eats a can of wet food twice a day with a sprinkle of the dry on top. Should I be?
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If she's underweight let her eat as much as she wants. Most find giving several small meals a day is better than two meals. Just no food 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the number is not food influenced. If 13 lbs was a good weight for her than she should be getting at least 260 calories a day.... Although unregulated diabetics sometimes need more. Maybe try a can in the morning, half can at lunch, a can at dinner and half can before bed. Feed her as much as she will eat if she needs to gain.
 
JanetNJ said:
If she's underweight let her eat as much as she wants. Most find giving several small meals a day is better than two meals. Just no food 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the number is not food influenced. If 13 lbs was a good weight for her than she should be getting at least 260 calories a day.... Although unregulated diabetics sometimes need more. Maybe try a can in the morning, half can at lunch, a can at dinner and half can before bed. Feed her as much as she will eat if she needs to gain.
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With her insulin so high, is it a good idea to feed her in the middle between doses? She is very unregulated on the Vetsulin. She’s been reading over 500 since +4 hours and it is +7. Due to her pancreatic insufficiency she also has to take pancreatic enzymes with each meal so she can’t just have a little snack - she has to eat enough to get those enzymes down.
 
rsnyder03 said:
With her insulin so high, is it a good idea to feed her in the middle between doses? She is very unregulated on the Vetsulin. She’s been reading over 500 since +4 hours and it is +7. Due to her pancreatic insufficiency she also has to take pancreatic enzymes with each meal so she can’t just have a little snack - she has to eat enough to get those enzymes down.
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I see. I didn't know she needed special enzymes in the food. How many calories is she getting now?
 
Is she asking for more food? I would just watch with the 1.5 units - that is twice a day right? She may feel she needs a bit more food if her sugars go down and up a bit more with the dosing.
Mine is on a diet so I’m not really supposed to give more but yours might need it and he’s not really asking (until the 8/9 hour post shot time , when I give him a small snack).
my situation may well change when I get the libre fitted and see what’s happening
 
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