Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246 PMPS 265

[Jay]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13906#p139440

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177

What happened to the 1.75u? Maybe next cycle?

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177

What happened to the 1.75u? Maybe next cycle?

Yep!

That's the plan Stan...

 

[Nicole & Baby]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177

Hi, Jay & Frankie too!! Soooooo happy to see you shooting more consistenly!! Frankie is looking great & lots of luck with 1.75!!
Have a wonderful weekend too!! ;-)

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215

glad you're taking the reduction.
sounds like you have a great day planned...

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215

glad you're taking the reduction.
sounds like you have a great day planned...

It was, however when I got home, I got Chubby's Vet Bill.

I'm bummed, have a bill and no Chubby

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

Clearly he has been rising most of the day, and clearly he is shootable.

This last dose of 2.0 didnt hold him at all. I'm going to keep him at 2.0

If I wait two hours, he will most likely be over 275, maybe 300. (this dose lost steam hours ago) I'm thinking about shooting now.

This is like taking one step forward to go two steps back.

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

I knew if I came in here I'd see you say that. :roll:

I'm going to be blunt -- you need to shoot 1.75u not 2u.
First off, you don't know if Frankie went green last night and this is a tiny bounceup.
You are missing shots on 2u, you are getting pink, etc.
You have a fantastic kitty who would like to go down the dose ladder!

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

Since I often come in here and try and help you guys -- can you put in the Notes/remarks section at what +hour you are shooting. I know there are many non 12/12 days and I can't see them.
I have a bad feeling about tonight's shot, did you shoot 2u at +10 and then leave?

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

Since I often come in here and try and help you guys -- can you put in the Notes/remarks section at what +hour you are shooting. I know there are many non 12/12 days and I can't see them.
I have a bad feeling about tonight's shot, did you shoot 2u at +10 and then leave?

I have been including the time in the along with the dose amt on the ss.

No I didnt shoot and he is now at 265. Its time dont you think?

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

Shoot him at +12 1.75u. Forget the 2u, it's over.

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

I see time of day but I don't see +hrs. We need +hrs. I like +hrs written in the remarks section so I can quickly scan over to see it.
When I look at +hrs, I am not just looking at one shot I need to see a range of when shots were given. Lantus has not much to do with one cycle, one shot, one of anything. Working with Lantus you have to look at several days at a time.

Can you imagine how hard it would be for me to try and spend time calculating each o'clock into a +hr?

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246 +11 1/2 PMPS 265

Shoot him at +12 1.75u. Forget the 2u, it's over.

A few minutres too late. I'll keep an eye on him. I'm not going out tonite. Even though this hasnt been working the way its supposed to, (at least on paper, flat cuves) I'm ok with him being at 170+ in the AM and 265 in the PM.

Sooner or later this whole thing will work the way I've been told that its supposed to.

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

I see time of day but I don't see +hrs. We need +hrs. I like +hrs written in the remarks section so I can quickly scan over to see it.
When I look at +hrs, I am not just looking at one shot I need to see a range of when shots were given. Lantus has not much to do with one cycle, one shot, one of anything. Working with Lantus you have to look at several days at a time.

Can you imagine how hard it would be for me to try and spend time calculating each o'clock into a +hr?

Yeah, I can imagine it. I try to shoot between 5 and 6 every morning and 5 and 6 every evening. Its tougher on the PM side, commuting back from NYC to NJ is dicey, given the amount of traffic on the roads. Unless I have skipped a shout you can assume with a high level of confidence that we are close to +12 evey PM. Like tonite (although it is Sat)

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

What I am frustrated with it might take 3-4 extra cycles to get where we are right now.

History:
Frankie sees green, Jay skips shot, Frankie bounces, Jay won't reduce dose, Frankie goes green again, Jay won't shoot, Frankie goes high, Jay won't reduce dose, -- there is a pattern here.

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

It's not like I am worried about him going to low. What I am frustrated with it might take 3-4 extra cycles to get where we are right now.

History:
Frankie sees green, Jay skips shot, Frankie bounces, Jay won't reduce dose, Frankie goes green again, Jay won't shoot, Frankie goes high, Jay won't reduce dose, -- there is a pattern here.

Yeah, I wont shoot that low, when I am not around to check. I have a hard time intellectually shooting as low as some here do, without seeing a gradual and steady lowering of his PS and any where in between.

One day like today, I shoot at 170+ and he goes high in the PM. I shoot low in the PM and he is high in the AM. I have yet to see a flatter curve, just numbers all over the place, In the meantime, he is still here, diabetic, but here, and the Karo hasnt been out in a very long time nor has my hair stood on end because he is tanking.

I'm doing the best I can with this. The other night he was under 80 at +12. I fed, didnt shoot and he dropped down to the high 50's. If I would have layed in a dose while he was dropping (remember he doesnt eat an entire meal at one sitting) what do you think would have happened? What ever would have happened didnt, becasue I let it go for the night and didnt shoot.

I want him to greet me at the door when I come home and if it means skipping doses, because I dont trust this insulin yet, I'll skip doses. When I trust this insulin (slow drops, gradually lower PS, continually, flat curves) thats when I will shoot as low some here. None of that has yet to happen yet. I try. I appreciate you pushing me and working with me for sure. But again I have yet to come to trust this insulin.

 

[Libby and Lucy]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

When I trust this insulin (slow drops, gradually lower PS, continually, flat curves) thats when I will shoot as low some here. I try. I appreciate you pushing me and working with me for sure. But again I have yet to come to trust this insulin.

I can almost guarantee that you won't start seeing the continually flat curves until you start shooting lower, and/or stop skipping shots. However, I do understand that you do not want to shoot low. Just don't blame the insulin for not giving you the curves you want, when you're not using it in a way that will give you the curves that you want. You need to either shoot lower to help reduce the bounces and encourage lower curves (and D is right, you can't look at each cycle in a vacuum, you have to look at days at a time, every shot, or missed shot, affects the next 2-3 days), or you need to reduce the dose so he won't go low enough to cause you to skip shots.

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.8 AMPS 177 +3 215 +10 246

When I trust this insulin (slow drops, gradually lower PS, continually, flat curves) thats when I will shoot as low some here. I try. I appreciate you pushing me and working with me for sure. But again I have yet to come to trust this insulin.

I can almost guarantee that you won't start seeing the continually flat curves until you start shooting lower, and/or stop skipping shots. However, I do understand that you do not want to shoot low. Just don't blame the insulin for not giving you the curves you want, when you're not using it in a way that will give you the curves that you want. You need to either shoot lower to help reduce the bounces and encourage lower curves (and D is right, you can't look at each cycle in a vacuum, you have to look at days at a time, every shot, or missed shot, affects the next 2-3 days), or you need to reduce the dose so he won't go low enough to cause you to skip shots.

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

I want to see some history first, that shows me that the insulin is working the way I have been told it does. When I see it, I'll be more comfortable. Until I do, I may very well skip more shots.

Its very difficult for me to take a leap of faith particularly when that leap is over whether or not he greets me at the door or is frozen becuase I caused him to tank.

Testing is supposed to give you that history as well as to keep our cats safe. Right? I can keep him safe, but I dont have the history that allows me to shoot at much lower numbers.

Having said all that, here's a thought. Lets keep bantering back and forth about the Chicken and the Egg for the next 5 years, which means he is still with me. That would make me very very very happy :smile:

 

[Libby and Lucy]

maybe this will give you a little confidence that we know what we're doing: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... kSFE&gid=1

This spreadsheet hasn't been updated in several months, so the newest OTJ kitties aren't on it, but maybe it will show you that we've done this before, even if you haven't. ECID, but we've seen a LOT of cats go through here so the things Frankie is doing, we've seen before. Lucy was a former PZI kitty too, and she bounced for months. I just kept shooting, and one day she suddenly decided to stop bouncing.

I'm not expecting you to take a leap into shooting 60's right away, but if you want him to be flat in the 120-150 range then it's pretty necessary to shoot in the 120-150 range, at least. You shot 177 today. Next time you get a 140-150, shoot it and see what happens. When that goes ok (it will), then next time you get 120 shoot that. And so on.

 

[Jay]

maybe this will give you a little confidence that we know what we're doing: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... kSFE&gid=1

This spreadsheet hasn't been updated in several months, so the newest OTJ kitties aren't on it, but maybe it will show you that we've done this before, even if you haven't. ECID, but we've seen a LOT of cats go through here so the things Frankie is doing, we've seen before. Lucy was a former PZI kitty too, and she bounced for months. I just kept shooting, and one day she suddenly decided to stop bouncing.

I'm not expecting you to take a leap into shooting 60's right away, but if you want him to be flat in the 120-150 range then it's pretty necessary to shoot in the 120-150 range, at least. You shot 177 today. Next time you get a 140-150, shoot it and see what happens. When that goes ok (it will), then next time you get 120 shoot that. And so on.

Right..thats eggackly what I meant. I have yet to see that happen with any consistancy as of yet.

 

[Nicole & Baby]

Hey, Jay.. all I can say is shoot consistently too.. but I said that about a week ago & you did not agree with me or listen.. but I hope you do listen to D & Libby... they really know what they are doing. Good luck.. we just want Frankie to be given a chance at remission. It isn't fun & it is time consuming getting them off the juice.. but in the long run.. you get your life back if you do what is required now... or you can keep doing what you are doing & be at this for a very long time.

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

I keep telling you that you can't see a history of how Lantus works until you let it work. Chicken and egg doesn't apply here. Not in the least. And except for really low numbers, forget about the PS numbers you keep mentioning. That's NOT the number you're shooting. But I said this last night.... Old news. Lantus is wonderful stuff and if you would do what D and Libby are suggesting you might have great results with Frankie.

I can't tell you how many people I have told about Frankie. He is, bar none, the sweetest most gentle cat I have ever met! What cat lets a stranger come in and test him and give him insulin purring the whole time? He deserves a chance to really see how great he could feel on Lantus...and who knows???

 

[Jay]

I keep telling you that you can't see a history of how Lantus works until you let it work. Chicken and egg doesn't apply here. Not in the least. And except for really low numbers, forget about the PS numbers you keep mentioning. That's NOT the number you're shooting. But I said this last night.... Old news. Lantus is wonderful stuff and if you would do what D and Libby are suggesting you might have great results with Frankie.

I can't tell you how many people I have told about Frankie. He is, bar none, the sweetest most gentle cat I have ever met! What cat lets a stranger come in and test him and give him insulin purring the whole time? He deserves a chance to really see how great he could feel on Lantus...and who knows???

Like father like son :smile:

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

I keep telling you that you can't see a history of how Lantus works until you let it work. Chicken and egg doesn't apply here. Not in the least. And except for really low numbers, forget about the PS numbers you keep mentioning. That's NOT the number you're shooting. But I said this last night.... Old news. Lantus is wonderful stuff and if you would do what D and Libby are suggesting you might have great results with Frankie.

I can't tell you how many people I have told about Frankie. He is, bar none, the sweetest most gentle cat I have ever met! What cat lets a stranger come in and test him and give him insulin purring the whole time? He deserves a chance to really see how great he could feel on Lantus...and who knows???

Like father like son :smile:

HA HA

 

[Jay]

I keep telling you that you can't see a history of how Lantus works until you let it work. Chicken and egg doesn't apply here. Not in the least. And except for really low numbers, forget about the PS numbers you keep mentioning. That's NOT the number you're shooting. But I said this last night.... Old news. Lantus is wonderful stuff and if you would do what D and Libby are suggesting you might have great results with Frankie.

I can't tell you how many people I have told about Frankie. He is, bar none, the sweetest most gentle cat I have ever met! What cat lets a stranger come in and test him and give him insulin purring the whole time? He deserves a chance to really see how great he could feel on Lantus...and who knows???

Like father like son :smile:

HA HA

Its Twoooo, Its Twooo