Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340 PMPS 220 +3 217

[Jay]

This is not what is supposed to be happening

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

This is not what is supposed to be happening

It is if he went lower last night and is having a bounce.
Any spot checks last night?

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

This is not what is supposed to be happening

It is if he went lower last night and is having a bounce.
Any spot checks last night?

Isnt insulin supposed to drop the BG slowly and then when its effectiveness wears off the BG's start rising again? How could this be a bounce? Are all curves a bounce?

No spot checks other then +4 where he was at 190 or so.
We crashed out after that, rather Frankie did, on my head, of all places

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

I'm not saying it IS a bounce but it COULD be a bounce. We don't know.
Maybe you'll have some time coming up that you can get a bunch of spot checks. To me spot checks are more informative than PS numbers.

The following is a bit off topic but has been on my mind.

I remember you writing that you could not stomach people giving insulin to a cat who doesn't need it -- I didn't touch that one cause I thought, why go there? I care about you and Frankie, I wouldn't be here everyday if I didn't. I don't know if a kitty that was dx'd five years ago can go OTJ but I sure would like to try to give Frankie the same chance every other kitty in this forum has.

I grabbed some SS clips of OTJ kitties before they went OTJ -- it illustrates the flatness of a Lantus curve. IF each of the 122 cats, that have gone OTJ here in LL, did not shoot low to stay low, I think we would have about 15 not 122 cats who went into remission.

 

[Marvie and Tugger]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Sometimes Tugger went backwards before going forwards if that makes any sense. He'd go higher than usual before he was about to dip lower to earn a decrease.

I've also read several times around here in different condos that when kitties are at higher numbers and drop lower the pancreas (or liver? I get confused) panics and starts kicking out stuff to correct the big drop so *if* Frankie dipped kind of low while you were sleeping, that could explain the high number this morning. It can take a day or two or three for that to clear they say.

Another thing I've read (and seen for myself) is that when they start from slightly lower numbers (low blues and high greens for instance) the drop isn't as big and the bounce back up isn't either. That's why they say "shoot low to stay low" I was scared to shoot green numbers at first because I'd seen Tugger go from pink to green in no time at all (3/21 on our SS), so logic states if he could do that from pink... shooting green would just simply kill him, right? But that's not what happened. Shooting green kept him green or low blue. Once I saw that happening, I felt a lot more comfortable and was able to go for it on my own without having to come flying to LL to ask "is it safe to shoot this number?!?!" (I do not work so I was able to watch him closely, but if I worked I would probably still have done it because I have a great petsitter about 5 houses away who would come check on him for me, each person has to do what's right for their individual cat and situation.) Then seeing how much better Tugger felt in those greens and low blues made me really want to keep him there. He's like his old pre-FD self in that range, he does things now that he hasn't done in months, years even.

Tugger also let me know when he was about to go low, he'd get a lot more demanding and start seeking lots of attention (maybe that's what Frankie was doing sleeping on your head? :lol: ) as well as acting like he was starved and gobbling food like a piggy.

I'm not trying to convince you to do what you don't want to do, just thought I'd share that because you might find it useful even if you choose to stick with your own protocol for Frankie versus the Lantus Protocol as it's listed in the sticky. It seems to me that some of these things could be helpful even if you choose to try to keep him from going below numbers you are comfortable with and since I don't know if you read other condos to pick up this info yourself, I just thought I'd share what I've seen around in case you can use it. :smile:

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

I'm not saying it IS a bounce but it COULD be a bounce. We don't know.
Maybe you'll have some time coming up that you can get a bunch of spot checks. To me spot checks are more informative than PS numbers.

The following is a bit off topic but has been on my mind.

I remember you writing that you could not stomach people giving insulin to a cat who doesn't need it -- I didn't touch that one cause I thought, why go there? I care about you and Frankie, I wouldn't be here everyday if I didn't. I don't know if a kitty that was dx'd five years ago can go OTJ but I sure would like to try to give Frankie the same chance every other kitty in this forum has.

I grabbed some SS clips of OTJ kitties before they went OTJ -- it illustrates the flatness of a Lantus curve. IF each of the 122 cats, that have gone OTJ here in LL, did not shoot low to stay low, I think we would have about 15 not 122 cats who went into remission.

Interesting ss. Its tough for me to shoot low as I am not around during the day to keep and eye on him (other then weekends). At night, well after 10:30, lets put it this way, I cant even stay awake to watch the news at 11PM, and then wake up again at a ridiculously early hour in the AM, next day. As you can see, there is no where in this that there is time for me, which is ok, but I'm getting real heavy case of cabin fever.

We keep trying though, and (I'm not giving up) that's almost as important as anything else.

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Sometimes Tugger went backwards before going forwards if that makes any sense. He'd go higher than usual before he was about to dip lower to earn a decrease.

I've also read several times around here in different condos that when kitties are at higher numbers and drop lower the pancreas (or liver? I get confused) panics and starts kicking out stuff to correct the big drop so *if* Frankie dipped kind of low while you were sleeping, that could explain the high number this morning. It can take a day or two or three for that to clear they say.

Another thing I've read (and seen for myself) is that when they start from slightly lower numbers (low blues and high greens for instance) the drop isn't as big and the bounce back up isn't either. That's why they say "shoot low to stay low" I was scared to shoot green numbers at first because I'd seen Tugger go from pink to green in no time at all (3/21 on our SS), so logic states if he could do that from pink... shooting green would just simply kill him, right? But that's not what happened. Shooting green kept him green or low blue. Once I saw that happening, I felt a lot more comfortable and was able to go for it on my own without having to come flying to LL to ask "is it safe to shoot this number?!?!" (I do not work so I was able to watch him closely, but if I worked I would probably still have done it because I have a great petsitter about 5 houses away who would come check on him for me, each person has to do what's right for their individual cat and situation.) Then seeing how much better Tugger felt in those greens and low blues made me really want to keep him there. He's like his old pre-FD self in that range, he does things now that he hasn't done in months, years even.

Tugger also let me know when he was about to go low, he'd get a lot more demanding and start seeking lots of attention (maybe that's what Frankie was doing sleeping on your head? :lol: ) as well as acting like he was starved and gobbling food like a piggy.

I'm not trying to convince you to do what you don't want to do, just thought I'd share that because you might find it useful even if you choose to stick with your own protocol for Frankie versus the Lantus Protocol as it's listed in the sticky. It seems to me that some of these things could be helpful even if you choose to try to keep him from going below numbers you are comfortable with and since I don't know if you read other condos to pick up this info yourself, I just thought I'd share what I've seen around in case you can use it. :smile:

Its not that I dont want to shoot low, its that I am not around to test, during the day. I'd love to feel comfroatble in doing so, however the only way to get comfortable doing so, is to have some history in doing so. The lowest I have shot since the switch has been 185, when I knew I'd be around, mabye a little lower and the only results I got was a higher PS at the beginning of the next cycle. That must have happend at least 4 different times. I am at work now, and wont be home till 6PM tonight, mabybe later. What else could one do, but hire a live in who is compofrtable with dosing and testing, but I can hardly afford that.

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Interesting ss. Its tough for me to shoot low as I am not around during the day to keep and eye on him (other then weekends). At night, well after 10:30, lets put it this way, I cant even stay awake to watch the news at 11PM, and then wake up again at a ridiculously early hour in the AM, next day. As you can see, there is no where in this that there is time for me, which is ok, but I'm getting real heavy case of cabin fever.

We keep trying though, and (I'm not giving up) that's almost as important as anything else.

Hi Jay,

I haven't posted anything all week because I'm not at home. Alex, Jackson and myself had to get to an air conditioned home because Alex was very sick over the weekend.

I can't help but ask what that paragraph meant? I know your feelings about shooting low and about giving insulin when it's not needed and giving it when it is (I don't agree but I do know what they are). It seems that in this one paragraph above you said that you work too long and are away in the day so you can't shoot low THEN, you come home and fall asleep so you can't shoot low THEN, and you're tired of staying home when you are home so you plan on being away from home more often so you won't be able to shoot low when you're away....AM I WRONG? If i am, please tell me because the next thing you wrote after eliminating every possible time of the day to try to shoot lower number is "I'm not giving up". Lucy is confused. Maybe I missed something. Can you please 'splain, Ricky?

I'd love to see you getting Frankie on a bid schedule but it seems as if you're giving even more reasons why you can't?

 

[D and Noisy]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Ooops, I just posted in your other thread -- how come you have two going?
Let's keep everything in this thread.

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Interesting ss. Its tough for me to shoot low as I am not around during the day to keep and eye on him (other then weekends). At night, well after 10:30, lets put it this way, I cant even stay awake to watch the news at 11PM, and then wake up again at a ridiculously early hour in the AM, next day. As you can see, there is no where in this that there is time for me, which is ok, but I'm getting real heavy case of cabin fever.

We keep trying though, and (I'm not giving up) that's almost as important as anything else.

Hi Jay,

I haven't posted anything all week because I'm not at home. Alex, Jackson and myself had to get to an air conditioned home because Alex was very sick over the weekend.

I can't help but ask what that paragraph meant? I know your feelings about shooting low and about giving insulin when it's not needed and giving it when it is (I don't agree but I do know what they are). It seems that in this one paragraph above you said that you work too long and are away in the day so you can't shoot low THEN, you come home and fall asleep so you can't shoot low THEN, and you're tired of staying home when you are home so you plan on being away from home more often so you won't be able to shoot low when you're away....AM I WRONG? If i am, please tell me because the next thing you wrote after eliminating every possible time of the day to try to shoot lower number is "I'm not giving up". Lucy is confused. Maybe I missed something. Can you please 'splain, Ricky?

I'd love to see you getting Frankie on a bid schedule but it seems as if you're giving even more reasons why you can't?

I'm not giving up on him is what I meant. I do the best I can given work and time constraints, and commuting to and from Manhattan. I'm up early to take care of him and cant seem to stay awake very late. What I meant was that thru all of this, and taking care of him that I have given up whatever social life I had so that I can at least try to take care of him. I have a real case of cabin fever and would like to see the real world once and a while, not only his spread sheet and the history channel every nite. I am dosing him bid, by the way. Shooting low is tough if I have no history of doing so successfully as I am gone from 6:30 AM to 6 PM asleep by 10 and up again between 4:30 and 5 AM. Makes it real tough to shoot low and not worry.


Whats wrong with Alex? His heart?
How's he doing now?
I was wondering where you guys had disappeared to?

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Ooops, I just posted in your other thread -- how come you have two going?
Let's keep everything in this thread.

I dont know how there are 2 threads, nor can I find the delete button on the other one and too tired from work and the heat to continue looking for it. My building is finally truning over from heat to AC and my apt will be cool by the 13th of this month.

What I meant when I said whats up with that? Is that it wasnt what I expected to see and believe me I am happy with that, tired but happy

 

[Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Whats wrong with Alex? His heart?
How's he doing now?
I was wondering where you guys had disappeared to?

I guess it's whole body related...probably more his whole endocrine system than his heart as he has no fluid on his heart or in his lungs. He overheats very quickly which could be from his thyroid but that's a guess. It doesn't help that he likes to jump on the counter a lot and I can't keep him from doing that. By Saturday night he had 103.4 fever and was panting and sick and fluids didn't help him at all. I thought he was a little better Sunday AM but he jumped once and started panting again and breathing heavily and by the time he got to the vet he had nearly 104. Within a few hours of being in the A/C he was feeling 75% better..within a day he was fine.I'm probably bringing him and Jackson home on Friday. We're not getting A/C until the 18th or that's what they're shooting for

I told you in an email that I was at Jaime's

 

[Jay]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Whats wrong with Alex? His heart?
How's he doing now?
I was wondering where you guys had disappeared to?

I guess it's whole body related...probably more his whole endocrine system than his heart as he has no fluid on his heart or in his lungs. He overheats very quickly which could be from his thyroid but that's a guess. It doesn't help that he likes to jump on the counter a lot and I can't keep him from doing that. By Saturday night he had 103.4 fever and was panting and sick and fluids didn't help him at all. I thought he was a little better Sunday AM but he jumped once and started panting again and breathing heavily and by the time he got to the vet he had nearly 104. Within a few hours of being in the A/C he was feeling 75% better..within a day he was fine.I'm probably bringing him and Jackson home on Friday. We're not getting A/C until the 18th or that's what they're shooting for

Hope he feels better when your AC gets turned on. Its been brutal w/o AC the past few days.

I told you in an email that I was at Jaime's

I havent seen an email from you for a while, and dont recall seeing that he was at Jaimes in the last email.

 

[jan and Hep and sara (GA)]

Re: Frankie 5.5 AMPS 340

Jay,

I know where you are coming from not feeling comfortable shooting lower #'s when you won't be around. I work m-f too. I'm home by 4pm though but never mind the 11oclock news I can't even make 8pm, because I get up at 3-3:30am.

The first time Sara gave me a # of 170 [she was 2-300's prior]I panicked but slowly got more used to it as her #'s started to come down more. Even though I am away during the day I left food out. I have seen her feed her low #'s on her own to get herself back up. Something I would'nt have believed if I had'nt seen it. After the pm shot I am only up for a few hours most of the time. Sometimes if I wake up in the middle of the night I'll try to get a sc in too.

I am no expert. Sara was on insulin for 4 months [vetsulin and I was'nt on this site] She went into remission for about a year. Now she's on Lantus [has been since dec] and I have been following the advice from the awesome people here. If you want, take a look at my ss and you will see how Sara's #'s have come down after I started posting here daily.

I don't know your situation but I know that we have come full circle following the advice here.

Good luck and sorry this is so long.
Thanks for listening

jan and sara :smile:

 

[Jay]

can we go to sleep now?

MEOW I-)