Foster Kitty Bagheera-UPDATE: Shot Harley's dose today 4/13

Status
Not open for further replies.

Laura and Harley (GA)

Member Since 2011
...and I don't like to admit it. ;-)

Bagheera's been doing very well on the whole cat picture front. He's settled in to my house and after spending the first few weeks smacking every kitty he met, except for Molly, (and getting bopped on the head in return) they are all settled in and used to each other now. The house would be very empty without him - he keeps me entertained. Harley and Bagheera still go head to head occasionaly but nothing serious. Both are very stubburn. Hadley and Baghera have a strange kind of playful relatoinship. One will walk up to the other, swat him, and run away and the one who was swatted jumps up and chases the other one around the house. Sure, they're playing but playing with growls and hisses thrown in. Once finished they settle down next to each other and start taking side by side baths completely ignoring each other. Such funny loco boys.

Bagheera is a real people kitty. He likes to follow me wherever I go and he's started coming up and sleeping on my bed once Harley, Princess and sometimes Molly are asleep. His appetite is pretty good, he likes his FF Chicken and Liver & Chicken. Still drinking a ton of water and making huge urine balls. Ketones are negative which is a good considering his numbers are absolute crap lately! The only other health thing going on besides the diabetes is that he needs a dental but that's not in the cards right now. We tried a trial of Clindamycin and he had a bad reaction (vomiting, inappetance, liquipoo - despite concurrent use of probiotics) so I stopped after only three days. It look a week to get his appetite and stools back to normal so we haven't tried any other ABx since then.

His SS is up to date and I'd appreciate some eyes and some advice on the Lev. The committee in my brain is throwing out suggestions like: "raise," "lower," "hold," and even "take him off insulin for a few days and see what his numbers are before making any more dosing decisions." An external perspective would be refreshing. :smile:
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2289.JPG
    IMG_2289.JPG
    131.7 KB · Views: 892
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

I think he needs less insulin. He is going from nearly 400 to the 30s and back - or staying high and flat all day. Those are both classic rebound patterns:

A typical rebound pattern, most often seen with long-acting insulins, is a high, flat, unresponsive blood sugar over a period of days. Sometimes, often when raising dosage, this high flat curve will be punctuated by sudden drops to very low values, (with possible hypoglycemic events) followed by a fast return to high unresponsive numbers. (It's the sudden dip that distinguishes this pattern from inadequate insulin, but it doesn't always happen.)
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

I would say try .3u and let it settle. He looks (well, his numbers look) a lot like Beau's did at .5u and .4u. I could clearly see that .5u was too much because of the 30s and the bounces, but .4u looked like not enough: high numbers, nothing nearly low enough to be considered a "good" nadir. So I bounced him back and forth between the two doses for a while. When I finally re-read the quote above I dropped him to .3u and, surprise (!), his numbers got better.

You may find that his numbers will keep evening out and then he will suddenly give you another 30 - that means another decrease is in order. At least that's how it worked for Beau.
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

Forgot to mention, he looks just like a cat we had when I was growing up. He seems very content in his cat tree.
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

Thanks Sheila! This is kind of where my committee brain was leaning as well. Too much insulin, but I just didn't know how much to reduce. If he's shootable tonight I'll try the 0.3u. If he's too low to shoot tonight, I'll start fresh in the AM.

He is such a little cutie. He and Molly take turns sharing the top of the cat tree.
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

Bagheera's PMPS was 135 so I skipped the shot. I've got company coming over tomorrow and don't want either he or I to have to go through another round of lows tonight or tomorrow. I'll start 0.3u in the AM if he's shootable.

In other news, Hadley continues his green OTJ surf on Day 13. PMBG was 63. \M/
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

That was probably a good idea (to skip). I found, with Beau, that I had to set a fairly high do not shoot number. It was either 130 or 150, I can't remember - somewhere in there. It seemed high to me because there were/are so many people shooting full doses on PS's in the 60s following "shoot low to stay low". That just didn't work with Beau. So, you may find the same thing with Bagheera.

I took a peek at HaDley's SS this afternoon... so exciting!

Have a nice Easter - hope it isn't too much work and you get to enjoy it. And the cats don't get too freaked out by it.
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

It may have been the right call based on his recent history of bottoming out on low PS's but he was 355 at +4 last night and 409 this AM for AMPS. ohmygod_smile. Oh well...but I shot 0.3u.

Yup, we will be having a party most likely tomorrow 'cuz the grey flannel man was 78 this morning. :mrgreen: Molly's all set to bring the wine and glasses...

Happy Easter everyone!
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

Happy Easter, Laura! We are getting ready for the party tomorrow, Klinger and Radar can't wait!!
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

From the heights of happiness over Hadley's remission to the depths of concern over Bagheera's BGs...the life of a diabetic kitty caregiver is always eventful.

Sunday, 4/8
after skipping the shot on Saturday night
AMPS=409, shot 0.3u
+6= 298
PMPS=198, Shot 0.3u
+4=167

Monday 4/9
AMPS=211, Shot 0.3u
+6=283
PMPS=506 :o , Shot 0.3u
+2=367
+4=262

Tuesday 4/10
AMPS=394, Shot 0.3u
+6=283
PMPS=383, Shot 0.3u

I think I'm still reeling from that 506, none of my kitties have even been that high before. I'm seriously wondering if he doesn't improve in the next few days if stopping all insulin and continuing to test BGs and for ketones would be the best course of action - to see what his pancreas can do on its own. His numbers actually went down on the second cycle after I skipped a shot to drain his shed. I'm really wondering if even 0.3 is too much. I'd almost rather start over and work my way up from zero. Does this make any sense or am I just talking (more) crazy talk (than usual)?
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

Well, two schools of thought:

Yours - to reduce more or stop for 1-2 days

and "go back to the last good dose" (which would be .5u.

I have a theory that a little too much insulin causes flat, high curves, and a lot too much insulin causes swings from high to low. So, maybe, you have reduced enough to not cause to lows, but to cause the high numbers.

Or you could go back to .5u and the next time he hits below 40 reduce to .4u with the idea that a reduction of 40% was too much (.5u to .3u).

There. Did I help or only make it worse? :lol:
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

No, you didn't make it worse, we're just throwing ideas out and batting them around like catnip toys but without that heady intoxicating feeling the kitties get. :smile: We need some human-nip, oh wait there is such a thing but it's illegal. cat(2)_steam

I'm having difficulty seeing that the last good dose was 0.5u if it sent him from the 300s to the 30s and back again. Sure it may have been a good dose on days 1-3 of Lev. but not lately. 0.4u did the same thing. Where is that head-banging emoticon when you need it.

Last night's +4 was 218 and his AMPS was 296 so I'm not going to make any changes yet and just hold this dose just in case he decides to come around. If the numbers continue to wonkify I'm leaning towards stopping completely and seeing what his baseline is and go from there.
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

what about food?

Maybe you can try some mini meals at the .5u dose... with food manipulation, giving 1tsp each hour up front of the cycle, it will slow the drop to the 30s. Then if the bounces are reduced, less extreme, the numbers may level out. An auto feeder would work great for frequent meals if you are not home.

Just something to try because it looks like the .3u has less extremes but stays at higher numbers then you may want, but maybe try the food trial on the .3u dose and see if it helps. Once you can get to flat 200s, you can think about going to the .5u if Bagheera refuses to get some 100s on the .3u.
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

WONKIFY! I love it - a new word!

Oh, that is a good idea to let .3u settle :roll: wish I had thought of it. Also, Gayle's suggestion (food) is good too. Gotta love the idea that Bagheera will "refuse to get some 100s" on the lower dose. It really seems like they dig their feet in sometimes, doesn't it?
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera - Dosing Advice Needed, I'm Stumpe

Well I've been doing something unusual for me - trying to hold a dose. :lol: Taking Sheila and Gail's advice and not making any changes, and letting 0.3u settle. And Bagheera's been in the 300s for the last 3 days (See SS)

But then, there's today...

I made a BIG mistake.

I accidentally shot Bagheera with Harley's 1.1u dose. And I realized it after I pushed the plunger in and thought - "this is traveling too far for 0.3u, what the heck?" Now normally I use a multi-step double check process for drawing and administering my doses. Measure, check, re-check, place syringe on one plate per cat, take plate to cat, pick up syringe, re-verify the dose before shooting the cat. With three diabetics on insulin the last month, I have to keep my doses straight. But this week has been a very bad week personally and at work. Yesterday I had to attend a legal proceeding which was very upsetting. So this morning I'm still reeling from the fallout. I must have grabbed the wrong plate when I shot Bagheera. (For the future, I will make a point to always shoot the highest dose kitty in the house first so if I get the syringes mixed up again I will have ended up shooting a lower dose into the higher dose kitty and can always add more insulin to that cat. We always say you can always add more, but never take the insulin out once it's in.)

I had to go to work today for some meetings but I came home at lunch and brought my computer with so I could work from home and monitor Bagheera in the afternoon which is when I expected the overdose to hit.

So here's what happened next:

AMPS=407, Shot 1.1u by accident!, Fed usual LC FF breakfast
+2=351
+6=119, Fed usual FF LC lunch
+7=65
+8=55
+9=60
+10=72
+11=129

So far these are some freakin' good numbers. I doubt he'll be shootable by +12 so I'll most likely just monitor and watch for a rise before contemplating shooting anything. But now I'm really wondering if it's possible if I got the doses mixed up on April 7 - the day Bagheera went from 351 at AMPS to 36 at +6 and up to 135 at PMPS. That day Harley was on a 1.25u dose. Looking at Harley's April 7 numbers he didn't come any lower than 200 and usually he'd go blue on a 1.25u dose.

I know I can seriously mess my head up thinking like this but does anybody think I should give 1u or a skinny 1u a try?
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera-UPDATE: Shot Harley's dose today 4

Nope, I wouldn't shoot anywhere near 1u with him. Yes, today's numbers were so beautiful it hurts, but that was off a .3u shed. As you point out he was not shootable at +12, so another dose like that and he would be hitting bottom - and/or in the 500s by +12.

I see you shot .75u, but my gut tells me that is too much. You have some great numbers on .4u and .5u, so I would head there. If you dropped the dose from .5u because of another mixup, then go back to that dose and see what happens.

Good plan to shoot the highest dose kitty first. I have caught myself in the process of reaching for Beau's heart med to give it to Jeddie :roll: I guess we all have hiccups in our systems from time to time.
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera-UPDATE: Shot Harley's dose today 4

As you can see I rolled the dice and shot 0.75u tonight because I figured I'd be home, and awake to test. So far he's 312 at +1 - I shot 1 hour late so tonight will be an 11 hour cycle. I'll spot check him to make sure he's OK.

If he bottoms out on me tonight then it's back to the 0.5u he goes. Arrrrggghhhh!
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera-UPDATE: Shot Harley's dose today 4

201 at last night's +4 and this morning for AMPS so I shot 0.5u. We'll see what today brings.

Happy Caturday! ~O)
 
Re: Foster Kitty Bagheera-UPDATE: Shot Harley's dose today 4

Wow, he seems to be doing great!!
He looks like my Tucker, except my Tucker has pancake eyes. Meaning huge, lol.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top