food selection for possible diabetes case

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I think Dionysia needs to talk to her vet about getting her cat Lisa started on insulin.

Νομίζω ότι η Διονυσία πρέπει να μιλήσει με τον κτηνίατρό της για να πάρει τη γάτα της η Λίζα ξεκίνησε με ινσουλίνη.
Nomízo óti i Dionysía prépei na milísei me ton ktiníatró tis gia na párei ti gáta tis i Líza xekínise me insoulíni.
 
Καλησπερα!δε ζήτησα τη γνώμη σας για να ξεκινήσει η γάτα μου ινσουλίνη κι αυτό είναι κάτι που θα το κρίνει ο γιατρός ...δεν είχε αλλά θέματα υγείας ούτε θυροειδη ούτε με τα νεφρά μόνο τη γλυκόζη η οποία στη τελευταία μέτρηση ήταν 190 φαγωμενη κι τώρα 240φαγωμενη κι η φρουκτοζαμινη λίγο ανεβασμενη αλλά πριν ένα μήνα έκλεβε τροφή που προορίζοταν για αλλά γατια..οποτε θεωρώ λογική τη τιμή αυτη .αυτό που ζήτησα από σας θα ήταν κάποιες μάρκες τροφών από το ,zooplus....
 
dionysia ke said:
Καλησπερα!δε ζήτησα τη γνώμη σας για να ξεκινήσει η γάτα μου ινσουλίνη κι αυτό είναι κάτι που θα το κρίνει ο γιατρός ...δεν είχε αλλά θέματα υγείας ούτε θυροειδη ούτε με τα νεφρά μόνο τη γλυκόζη η οποία στη τελευταία μέτρηση ήταν 190 φαγωμενη κι τώρα 240φαγωμενη κι η φρουκτοζαμινη λίγο ανεβασμενη αλλά πριν ένα μήνα έκλεβε τροφή που προορίζοταν για αλλά γατια..οποτε θεωρώ λογική τη τιμή αυτη .αυτό που ζήτησα από σας θα ήταν κάποιες μάρκες τροφών από το ,zooplus....
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Translation from Greek:

"Good afternoon! I didn't ask for your cat to start insulin and this is something the doctor would judge ... he had but no health issues with either thyroid or kidney glucose alone which at last count was 190 eaten and now 240fat and fructosamine slightly uptake but a month ago stole food intended for but cats..when i find it reasonable this price. what i asked of you would be some food brands from it, zooplus ...."

Dionysia. This is the only list I have available for you to look for foods that may help a diabetic cat. UK and European food chart.

You will have to look at the linked food chart yourself. It's the best I can do for you. Good luck with your diabetic cat.
 
@kalypso Please help your friend Dionysia understand that a diabetic cat can not always be helped by feeding a low carbohydrate food alone.

Her cat may need insulin.

She may want to repeat the fructosamine test in 2 to 3 weeks after the last fructosamine test was done.

Any of those foods on the linked UK & European food chart are good for a cat that only has diabetes, no other health issues.

It is Dionysia's choice on which of those foods she chooses to buy (purchase, obtain).
It is Dionysia's choice on where she wants to purchase those cat foods.

p.s. Google translate is having a difficult time translating her sentences. She needs to write clearly and use complete sentences. She is leaving out about one third of the words necessary to make herself understood.
 
Thank you for your help and extra effort translating with google!
The vet will examine the cat again in a month, I hope I will be able to count on you all with any future question!
 
Hello again!
I have come back with a couple of questions!
One is, when is it a good time to measure glucose after having eaten? Lisa is not yet on insulin, but her glucose is being measured at home, so this is progress. Vet persists on prescription dry food, but it is being compared to low carb wet food with home testing.
Second question is, how do we need to measure the quantity that she needs to eat? Do we follow feeding instructions which are kind of vague? Or do we need to calculate exact calories to give per day. The cans we have (macs, granatapet, bozita etc) do have some feeding instructions, but don't list calories per gr of food.
Thank you!
 
kalypso said:
One is, when is it a good time to measure glucose after having eaten? Lisa is not yet on insulin, but her glucose is being measured at home, so this is progress.
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Tests in both the morning and evening, approximately 12 hours apart.
  • Test in the morning, with no food for 2 hours before testing.
  • That test is so you have a baseline, something to compare later test numbers against. A blood glucose level test done before food, helps to put other blood glucose test levels taken later into context. Gives those blood tests meaning. Gives you a comparison between two different times.
  • Feed the cat.
  • Then test about 3 hours after feeding. Food raises the BG (blood glucose) levels.
  • If the blood glucose is lower, goes down 3-4 hours after feeding, than the cat's pancreas may be producing some insulin. That would be a positive sign.
Repeat these same steps for the PM or evening cycle, 12 hours later from the morning test.

It's ok to feed other meals after that first meal of the day.
Always take a blood glucose test at pre-shot time if Lisa does start insulin.

kalypso said:
Second question is, how do we need to measure the quantity that she needs to eat?
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Weigh Lisa the cat once a week.
Does Dionysia have a human scale for weighing herself? Many women do.
If so, have Dionysia hold her cat in her arms, note what the combined weight is, let her cat down from her arms, weigh herself.
Subtract the second weight from the first weight and you will have the cat, Lisa's weight.

Weigh the cat once a week.
If losing weight, feed more.
If gaining weight, feed less.
If at a good or "ideal" weight, keep the amount of food the same.
 
Hi Deb & Wink!
Thanks for your reply!
So, Lisa was also eating purina dm dry until last Thursday, when her bg was measured at 515 in the afternoon.
After Dionysia started home testing, she realised she shouldn't listen to the vet insisting on dm dry.
So Lisa started eating only mac's kitten wet food (0.4% kcals from carbs) since Thursday evening.
Today Monday at 8:00 am (with no food since 2:00 am) she was 365. She had breakfast at 11:00 and 3 hours later at 14:00 she was 319.
I understand these are out of range.
But do we expect any more lowering due to lower carb food since Thursday evening?
Also, do the measurements give any info on the pancreas?
 
kalypso said:
But do we expect any more lowering due to lower carb food since Thursday evening?
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The blood glucose levels will probably not drop much farther with the food change from dry to wet.
It can take several days, the average is about 3, for dry food to work it's way through a cat's digestive system.

I might give it 1 more day to see if the blood glucose levels drop any more.
Also, do the measurements give any info on the pancreas?
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Yes, those blood glucose measurements tell you the pancreas is not producing enough insulin on it's own.
Lisa the cat needs to be given injections of insulin, to compensate for that hormone not being made by her body in sufficient quantities right now.

Sometimes, it's possible for a cat's body to heal, if given that external support of twice a day insulin.
It takes time. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Sometimes, the cat needs insulin for the rest of their life.
 
kalypso said:
But why is the bg lower 3h after meal than with empty stomach?
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If the cat's pancreas is producing SOME insulin, but not enough, the BG 3 hours after a meal can go lower. There is some insulin to process the food, but not enough. The BG (blood glucose) level will still be too high overall.

If the cat's pancreas was producing all the insulin needed, the BG 3 hours after a meal AND at pre-shot would both be low, <100 mg/dL. (5.5 mmol/L)

It's also possible that the pancreas will produce a bit more insulin on it's own one day. A bit less insulin on another day. We have a term for that, we call that a "sputtering pancreas."

Meaning, not functioning fully all the time, but working some of the time some days, and not working some of the times on other days. Like a car engine or lawnmower engine that gets some gas mixed in with the fuel. That engine will make a "sputtering sound" when the water gets into the fuel lines. Working in "fits and starts." Working sporadically.
 
Could also food fat content play a role apart from carb content?
I have noticed that many of the low carb wet foods are a bit high on fat.
 
Fat can play a role in causing a cat to be overweight. Being overweight is thought by some feline diabetes studies and vets to be a risk factor for diabetes. That is because the fat cells resist the body's use of insulin. Those fat cells are insulin resistant.

"Adipocytes (fat cells) secrete a substance that makes the cells of the body resistant to insulin (Type 2 diabetes)." from Dr. Lisa Pierson's article on Feline Diabetes.

A couple of those substances that are secreted are 2 hormones - leptin, which controls appetite and adiponectin which controls blood sugar levels.

Yes, many foods do contain higher amounts of fat. That is because fats are less expensive, cheaper for the manufacturer to include in a pet food. Meat protein sources are more expensive, so the foods that contain more meat and less fat will be more expensive.

https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/01/diabetic_cat_diet/

You need to find a cat food that balances the protein and carbohydrate needs of a diabetic cat, with availability and affordability.
 
Sophia, would you please start a new thread? Moderators have asked that we keep threads under 50 posts, and this one has grown quite a bit longer than that.

(It helps to keep the database behind the scenes better organized and efficient if we can keep the threads shorter.)

Please link this thread in at the top of the new thread, so we have some history and background to look at.
Upper right corner, click on "Post New Thread" icon on start typing away.

Thank you.
 
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