Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABELS!

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Ry & Scooter

Ry & Scooter

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Ughhh... as if they weren't bad enough already (esp. here in Canada)

I haven't looked at SK/Friskies cans in a while because Scooter did not like them, so maybe these changes aren't super recent but something bad is definitely going on in the pet food industry.

Today I found :

Most Friskies pates now contain rice. Even the low carb ones like Turkey and Giblets and Mixed Grill.

Most (maybe all) Special Kitty foods contain wheat gluten and some of them (such as Turkey and Giblets) even contain GROUND CORN. Yes, you read that right.

Special Kitty Select 3oz cans (what I feed Scooter) went up a whopping 9 cents per can - from 41 to 50 ($6 for 12)

Fancy Feast assorted cases went DOWN in price ($6 for 12), however, NONE of them are suitable for diabetics. They all contain gravy or grilled varieties.

Fancy Feast went BACK UP in price, from 60 cents a can up to 68.

If you are purchasing new food supplies soon PLEASE READ THE LABEL as the ingredients for your food may have changed for the worse. :(
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Ry & Scooter said:
Fancy Feast assorted cases went DOWN in price ($6 for 12), however, NONE of them are suitable for diabetics. They all contain gravy or grilled varieties. Fancy Feast went BACK UP in price, from 60 cents a can up to 68. :(
Click to expand...

I just grabbed a couple 12 paks of FF Classic Chicken and FF Classic Turkey & Giblets tonight at WalMart. $6.96/box. This is up about .80 from a week or two ago. They also had the 24 pack w/ 3 different varieties, but tonight did not have the classic Chicken/Turkey & Giblets/Beef that I usually pick up. They were $13 & some change.

I just tell myself it's a "Pay now or pay later thing" (as in at the vet). And Grayson really seems to like these varieties.

Thanks for the heads-up... wish the manufacturers had to put the same health info on pet food as they do human food!
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Dang that's so expensive... considering some places in the US pay about .50 a can. Here it's .73 a can at Petsmart. Walmart is barely cheaper with the .68.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Yep,
Just checked my cans of Friskies. I use Turkey and Giblets, Poultry Platter, Chicken and Tuna and Supreme Supper (all Pate's) and all 4 cans list rice as th 6th or 7th ingreedient right before the artificial favor and color. I buy by the case about once a month so these were puchased at Pet'sMart within the last 4 weeks.
The only consolaton is that with it being named that far down the list, there's probably not very much in there. Hope, hope, hope...
I am in the process of transitioning off hard food and fortunately, the Friskies Pate has been a part of their daily diet all along and it has not been so difficult to get anyone to eat it. I will be in sad shape if I have to switch to something else.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Thanks for the heads up. Guess I need to make sure to take my reading glasses when I go shopping! :-D And, Lu-Ann, don't let 'em fool ya' there's things they don't tell us on the people food labels, too - Going to leave Oreo (non-diabetic) on the Friskies Pate' $.50/can or $.94/bigger can at Walmart. That's the best price I've found. Figuring even with the rice, it's still better than the kibble he was eating, right?

Thanks, again!
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

So what is this "fibre" they listed on the can? Are those carb?
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

It might be insignificant amounts of rice but it depends on how carb sensitive the kitty is, I guess. I like to keep it under 5% for Scooter... and even then, who knows how accurate those food charts are now with all the formula changes.

And fiber is indigestible matter so it shouldn't contribute to carb levels at all.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

I guess it was only a matter of time. Wonder if they'll try to stick the 'pink slime' into more pet foods now that we've rallied to get it out of our human food. Ugh!
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

You mentioned Petsmart - what about checking out their brand: was called Sophisicat but now Grreat Choice. The flavors I have, beef and beef and chicken, have no rice and the prices aren't bad. The supreme kind, 3oz can, is $.46 in my area. They also sell the 5.5 oz cans ($.36 i think) and the 13oz.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

I believe Sophistacat/Grreat Choice is the same price at Petsmart as FF is at Walmart... our Petsmart is NOT cheap. .73 for a can of FF there... big cans of Wellness are $3.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Ry & Scooter said:
It might be insignificant amounts of rice but it depends on how carb sensitive the kitty is, I guess. I like to keep it under 5% for Scooter... and even then, who knows how accurate those food charts are now with all the formula changes.
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh, this could explain the increase in my Buddy's numbers. Granted I've only been testing for a whopping 4 or 5 days, but my instincts have told me something significant is going on. I thought perhaps it could be the one Temptation treat I give him before each test. But it didn't make much sense that something so small could impact so greatly. Now that I read what you've written, I realize I've been in the process these last couple of days of switching to the Friskies special diet...with rice in the ingredient list! Maybe he's one of those sensitive kitties! :o

Thank you so much for this thread!!!
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Yes, even dry treats can make a big difference! It kind of be like a human diabetic eating several candy bars a day--even though they aren't big and they're eating healthy the rest of the time, they still have a big impact on their blood sugar.

Some cats can tolerate the amount of rice in Friskies, and some cant. Bandit can't--he can eat grain free foods that at 8 and 9 % carbs and be perfectly fine, but the 5-7% Friskies sends his BG up by an extra 50-100 points. It has to be the rice--there's no other explanation for it.

I mentioned this in another thread, but the US Walmart web site still has the same Special Kitty formulas listed without any grains, so it may just be a Canadian thing that they're adding corn. Sophistacat/Grreat Choice low carb flavors are staying grain free, as far as I know...

Here's a list of low carb, diabetic safe treats for you to get.: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172&p=90450&hilit=treats#p90450

I give Bandit Beefeaters Freeze Dried Chicken and Salmon Treats from Petsmart. They're very reasonably priced, because you're getting a lot more in the container than the small, dry treats.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Kim & Buddy,
You might just try like for 3 days to not give a temptation and see if his numbers wont go down a bit. The reason for bringing this up is because Bean could not even eat 1 of her small small treats without her raising quite a bit.
Do you think he would like any other kind of treat that is not high in carbs?
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

I'm going to look into the Beefeater treats and some of the other ones. I have to bring a bunch of things back to Petsmart (ugh, what a pain!) so I'll set some time aside and check things out. Now that I know he doesn't need many treats, I can look at some which are pricier knowing that they'll go further.

I didn't realize little treats could do so much. I keep forgetting what's little to us is big to them proportionately. I'm going to take my lists with me and also look into Special Kitty. I'd hate to put him through yet another food change, but I'll do everything possible to keep my little man healthy.

Maybe with a double switch he'll do well. I have an appointment Monday morning with the new vet (YAY!!!) and I'd like to have a few days' tests under my belt.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

LOL - Kim,

I know when I arrive at petsmart with my 'return bag', they want to yell at me but cannot! heheheeh
The way I figure it, I spend lots of $$, and do not even ask for money back, just credit. So, that is what that cashier gets paid for!

Do you have a feed store close?

You might want to try some of the Grandma lucy or Stella & Chewy brands and I think you can search for a distributer by going to their website. They make venison, lamb, chicken and duck.
I started out with Petco brand of bonita flakes - she loved them.

You should see me with my Binky list, and I do take my time so yes, I must move over for the faster grabbing crowd :o (unless some poor person gets stopped and has to listen how what they have in their basket is not good for their kitty :? . 'Let me show you my binky list' I will say....some listen, some dont, but I feel I have done a good job anyway.

You are being such a great mommabean! Keep up the good work :cool:
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Hello All,

It's been quite a while since I've been on here.

I have to agree, everything seems to have gone up in price. I was previously buying Hill's Prescription Diet for diabetes and weight management from my vet for $50/ 24 can flat. I was a little nervous to switch to a non-prescription diet because I didn't want to ruin Jakob's progress! But my pocketbook won that inner conflict. I was paying over $100.00 per month to feed one cat! That's almost as much as it costs to feed me in one month! One thing I found interesting was the "prescription" diabetic diet from my vet also contains rice flour - you'd think for the price I was paying, I'd be getting a better product. I'm currently feeding Fancy Feast Seafood Supper which, even though it is getting a little pricey, is a welcome change from the $2/ can I was previously paying.

Hope everyone has a Happy Easter!

Glynnis
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

I am thinking this is a Canadian thing as per the label, but, here it is... this is the Turkey and Giblets flavor, one I used to feed Scooter. Rice flour and ground corn. :shock:


IMG_3497.jpg
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Hi!
Sorry, I have placed my post in the wrong thread - just deleted it.

Over the last year, Von's & Pavilions (California) had FF at 40 cents per can 2 or 3 times. Worth watching for.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Re Great Choice cat food, not sure about this either. Water is the number 1 ingredient? Then wheat gluten? Not sure...

Chicken Feast
Ingredients: water sufficient for processing, chicken, meat by-products, liver, fish, turkey, wheat gluten, poultry by-products, natural and artificial flavors, salt, guar gum, DL-methionine, sodium tripolyphosphate, potassium chloride, added color, vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodide, sodium selenite, choline chloride, carrageenan and taurine
Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 11.0%, Crude Fat (min) 4.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 1.5%, Moisture (max) 78.0%, Ash (max) 3.5%, Taurine (min) 0.05%
Click to expand...

I saw and ad for Fancy Feast at CVS - two for $1. Hope they have classics. Starts Sunday.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Thanks for the heads up. Thankfully the Friskies Pate I feed Tip has stayed pretty consistent price-wise at PetSuppliesPlus(have a card there, so I buy it there for the slight discount), hopefully the rice won't effect Tipper too much. I'll start reading the label more closely.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Since I just started changing Pumbaa's diet to all low-carb canned about two weeks ago, I have been reading the labels judiciously and finding rice and potatoes in foods that were supposedly low carbs.

I think it's Weruva that lists potatoes as the 4th ingredient, yet they claim to be low carbs. Every can of Friskies that I have looked at contained carbs (I haven't looked at all of them, so there might very well be low carb varieties).

This is why I haven't relied on Binky's chart...since much of work and research was years ago, and the manufacturers ARE cutting costs by adding cheap carb fillers, and until someone sits down and calls the manufacturers to find out the percent of calories from carbs, we just won't know the answer.

Fancy Feast Classic, at least the varieties I have looked at, do not list any rice, potatoes or corn or wheat or other carb fillers.

Innova EVO Turkey and Chicken states right on the can, "Less than 7% carbs", but my cats got tired of that, quickly, since I fed it to them too regularly. But a large can (13.2 oz.) was only $1.89. This is the ONLY canned cat food I have seen that lists the carb content right on the label! Good for them! And, this is manufactured in the USA so we don't have to worry about crap from China.

Anyway, this is a good thread and needs to be updated regularly, to warn others who aren't looking at the labels.

Update: Just got back from WalMart, where I spent lots of time reading the labels on all of the pate-style Friskies food. Every single one of them had rice or wheat gluten. :( That's too bad because my cats has been eating Friskies for years.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

We have three full cases of special kitty turkey and giblets in our house right now for mocha .. I read through the labels and so far they don't have any of the rice flour or ground corn in them .. I'll keep my eyes open next case we buy.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Laur: my goal is to make my own raw food for my cats one day...and do the same for my drooler!
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

laur+danny+horde said:
Psst... make your food quality go way up, and the price go down. Feed raw!

Check this thread.

laur
Click to expand...

Unfortunately a raw diet is not feasible for me. I don't know how big the price gap is between Canada/USA but chicken here is obnoxiously expensive, $17-20 a kg for breasts and $12-15 a kg for thighs. I can't even afford to eat it myself :lol:
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Ry & Scooter said:
Unfortunately a raw diet is not feasible for me. I don't know how big the price gap is between Canada/USA but chicken here is obnoxiously expensive, $17-20 a kg for breasts and $12-15 a kg for thighs. I can't even afford to eat it myself :lol:
Click to expand...

Per this conversion website, 1kg = 2.20 lbs. And $1.00 Canadian = $1.00924 US.

So, at $15 Canadian per kilogram for chicken thighs that would translate to $6.81 per pound USD. Yikes! Why is chicken so expensive in Canada? We can get them on sale down here for $.99 per pound, but that isn't the no growth hormones, no antibiotics chickens, that is just regular chickens in the supermarket.

What meat is affordable in your area of Canada? Are there any raw diets for cats geared to that meat?

Why aren't we all raising mice for our cats and feeding them that way? Why is there no mouse-meat canned food for cats? *LOL*
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Pumbaa said:
Why aren't we all raising mice for our cats and feeding them that way? Why is there no mouse-meat canned food for cats? *LOL*
Click to expand...

I don't know about canned mouse, but Hare-Today sells ground raw mouse. When it first came out a couple years ago. I was thrilled and bought some, but my cats just didn't seem to like it at all. I don't know if it was because the intestines were left in (mine tend to leave those) or what. On the other hand, my cats totally adore their raw rabbit. But it's a lot more expensive than my local chicken,, so I can't feed it very often.

Very sorry to hear that chicken is so expensive for our Canadian friends. That is a really astonishing cost. :o

As for raising mice, I've actually looked into that. But ensuring humane euthanization apparently isn't very easy, and you need specific equipment like a metered CO2 chamber. Plus, how pleasant can it be for mice to live in a house with cats? Surely they can smell the cats and instinctively would be fearful.

laur
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Awful isn't it :cry: Bone in/skin on is a bit cheaper but still ridiculous.

Ground beef is about the only affordable meat here, about $3.50 per pound. Scooter likes it enough, I just don't know how appropriate an all beef raw diet is. I could do some raw with mostly canned, too.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Anything beef here is about 5X higher in price than chicken. :( But all prices have gone up a lot in the last couple of years.

Here's a question....why are there no pork-based foods for cats?
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Once again, Hare-Today to the rescue. They do sell pork for raw feeding. (Also goat, goose, llama...) And according to Rawfed.com's page on myths, you can feed raw pork to a cat! Wow, I'm definitely going to have to check it out... Danny's favorite thing in the world is (cooked) pork chop. I see sites that claim trichinosis has effectively been wiped out in the US at least, but it's still an issue in developing countries. Nature's Variety's info sheet on pork has statistics that bear that out.

BTW I notice Hare-Today has turkey hearts on sale (25% off) today. If you have a spare freezer and can buy in bulk, the shipping is quite reasonable. I guess I will be ordering some pork too. :-D Thanks for the eye opening question, Pumbaa!
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Don't know if you can do this in Canada but I may have found a wonderful source of free meat this fall for my crew...the new son-in-law is an avid deer hunter, but only he likes the taste of vension...so we are working out a deal where I get the meat off his deers this year and if I want to apply and get my own hunting license he will fill my tags for me as well.

We are also setting up a similiar plan for when turkey, pheasant and duck season rolls around...Now before anyone yells about hunting...here it is necessary to cull the herds there are very strict limits on how many and what genders can be taken each year, so that the wild populations can be kept well fed and healthy over our brutal winters.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Laur: That is cool that you looked into raising mice to feed your cats! Sorry it didn't work out, though.

I'm going to have to look into Hare-Today. I think I did when I first was thinking about switching my cats to raw, but found that I could get frozen raw locally, in small packages to test my cats on. The second bag is still in the freezer since they aren't going for it right now.

You are so welcome about the pork question. Let me know how your cats like it!
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Mel, that is great about taking advantage of hunting season to feed your cats! It's too bad that only your son-in-law likes the taste of venison. I like it...send me some! :)
 
Trader Joe's Tuna for Cats

If anyone is interested, I just verified with Trader Joe's that their Tuna for Cats is only 1.164% carbs, even though it lists "rice flour...as a carrier" in the ingredients.

Phosphorus = 0.387% (I think it's phosphorus that some people have to watch for)

Protein = 21.5g
Carbs = 0.5g
Fat = 3.4g
Calcium = 42.6mg

This was $0.49 for a 5.5 oz. can.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Just starting the bumpy road so trying to learn all I can. One question if use lower carb FF or Friskies pâté flavors, does rotating flavors and brands greatly affect sugars? We will discuss insulin next week, we just learned dx a few days ago. And first insulin dose new diagnosed cat do people do 1 unit daily, I don't know what insulin vet will recommend but belong to Costco, missy already has uninsured Costco med card :lol: so looking that route when know more. I think I will return the hills md dry though.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Great thread! One more thing that you might want to watch for in labels is carrageenan. I know, one more thing to worry about! ohmygod_smile

But Dr. Lisa has mentioned here that she suspects that this ingredient may be contributing to IBD issues in cats since it is a known inflammatory in human intestinal cells. As she summarizes here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46910

"And...off on a tangent but as a good analogy.....if one is to do a search on PubMed for carrageenan induced inflammation, they will find a lot of studies showing just how inflammatory carrageenan is. They use it to induce inflammation in experimental models.

Recently a report came out showing that carrageenan causes intestinal inflammation in human cells. Ok...so IBD is pretty common in cats and carrageenan is very common in canned cat food. So...I post on VIN and the response is..."well.. there have been no studies in cats showing that this substance contributes to IBD".

Ok.....fine. You guys take the 'innocent until proven guilty' road....which translates into..."we will wait until someone has the money and interest to study this before we take it seriously..... even though carrageenan is a known inflammatory agent".

But....I will choose the other road....and error on the side of caution and not feed it to cats - especially IBD patients - if I can help it."

And here she has a more detailed post on the subject:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=37559&p=397010#p397010
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Cheryl A'Purrson said:
Just starting the bumpy road so trying to learn all I can. One question if use lower carb FF or Friskies pâté flavors, does rotating flavors and brands greatly affect sugars? We will discuss insulin next week, we just learned dx a few days ago. And first insulin dose new diagnosed cat do people do 1 unit daily, I don't know what insulin vet will recommend but belong to Costco, missy already has uninsured Costco med card :lol: so looking that route when know more. I think I will return the hills md dry though.
Click to expand...

Cheryl, so sorry that you had to join us, but happy that you found these boards, as they will help you so much, as they have helped me in the 3 weeks since Pumbaa's diagnosis. :YMHUG:

Yes, each brand, and flavor within each brand, has different carb percentages. And this all has all changed so much in the last few years, especially since Binky's list was last updated. (Again, I am not dissing all of the work that Binky put in to putting this wonderful list together. I am questioning the changes the manufacturers have made in the meantime to decrease costs which include adding cheap carb fillers which totally affect our FD cats. Please understand this!)

For food for your kitty, right now, at the beginning, I recommend EVO 95% formulas, as those have very low carb contents, per the manufacturer's website, and my cats do not reject these canned foods as they rejected the raw I tried introducing them to. My cats (Pumbaa and the civilian Larry) both love these EVO 95% foods, and it causes me less stress to know that that they are getting less than 5% carbs on these foods.

You can click on my "Pumbaa Profile" link below to see what I am now feeding my cats, and why. My research on canned foods in the last few weeks showed me that Friskies had too many carbs listed high up in the ingredients right now, which does not agree with the Binky's list foods , and my Pumbaa had higher BG numbers after I started feeding him FF classic, even though the labels for FF classic don't list carbs. This is very frustrating, for all of us dealing with FD kitties, since the FDA doesn't require that carbs are listed on pet food cans like they are on human food cans.

May your tigger go off the juice (off insulin) quickly!

I wish you well in regulating your kitty. Don't ever forget that all cats are different, no matter what advice you receive here and what insulin you start him on. You, alone, are the best judge of how Tigger responds to insulin treatment. Don't up his dose too quickly, or you will be left with numbers you can't analyze the data on.

Since I am trying to figure all of this out, too, maybe I can help you out on this newbie rock-filled road.

If you get Lantus as the insulin, there is a $25 coupon here for the SoloStar pens, which my Costco honored. If you get Lantus, you want to get the 5-pack of pens, and check the expiration date, as if you use them wisely and refrigerate them at the rights temps, they can last you a whole lot longer that buying a 10ml vial.

I don't know what else I can tell you other than watching how your Missy responds to any changes in diet and insulin given. Hopefully, you are open to home testing of BG and ketone levels, instead of subjecting Missy to stressful vet appointments which increase the readings. Pumbaa gets very agitated at the vet (bit me hard 3 weeks ago), yet will now sit there calmly for me, while I draw blood to test his BG level many times per day. And he doesn't like when I take the cover off of the litter box and wait to hear him start peeing before I stick a tablespoon back there to collect urine, but he tolerates that as well. Go figure! :)

If you train Missy correctly, by offering treats/rewards in the beginning, you could be okay with this testing stuff.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

I too have been trying to study Binky's list of canned food for Boy. On a recent visit to the vet, I mentioned that I had been giving Boy FF Classics (using the lowest carb/high protein flavors), but she didn't think the quality was as good and I ended up buying a case of the DM canned for $36. Since I was changing their feeding (2 other non diabetic cats) totally, and they all switch bowls each feeding, I wanted to go with a brand for all of them that would be good for Boy and not mess up his BG levels. After 3 days, none of them will touch the DM wet food, even if it's mixed with FF. They are even refusing certain FF flavors that were very low carb/high protein....still trying to filter out which flavors. Liver does not seem to be a favorite for any of them.

I'm still trying to find some brands that are actually within my budget. Thanks for some of the suggestions I've read on the board. Is there a list somewhere of the cheapest places to purchase canned food (either online or stores)?
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Most cats get sick of liver very quickly - usually you can return the unused cans for either your money back or a credit to your account. I have found recently that my cats haven't been as thrilled with the FF so I am now feeding the Grearrt Choice/Sophisticat small cans from Petsmart ( the bonus is its a little cheaper :smile: ). Maybe you could check those out if you live near a Petsmart...
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Pumbaa said:
Cheryl A'Purrson said:
Yes, each brand, and flavor within each brand, has different carb percentages. And this all has all changed so much in the last few years, especially since Binky's list was last updated. (Again, I am not dissing all of the work that Binky put in to putting this wonderful list together. I am questioning the changes the manufacturers have made in the meantime to decrease costs which include adding cheap carb fillers which totally affect our FD cats. Please understand this!)

For food for your kitty, right now, at the beginning, I recommend EVO 95% formulas, as those have very low carb contents, per the manufacturer's website, and my cats do not reject these canned foods as they rejected the raw I tried introducing them to. My cats (Pumbaa and the civilian Larry) both love these EVO 95% foods, and it causes me less stress to know that that they are getting less than 5% carbs on these foods.

You can click on my "Pumbaa Profile" link below to see what I am now feeding my cats, and why. My research on canned foods in the last few weeks showed me that Friskies had too many carbs listed high up in the ingredients right now, which does not agree with the Binky's list foods , and my Pumbaa had higher BG numbers after I started feeding him FF classic, even though the labels for FF classic don't list carbs. This is very frustrating, for all of us dealing with FD kitties, since the FDA doesn't require that carbs are listed on pet food cans like they are on human food cans.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Just a couple of comments on this--while some value on Binky's charts (phosphorus for example), are out of date and should not be used, unless there has been a formula change in the food, most of the carb values are still accurate. One good way to determine if the values are still accurate is to look at the ingredients for sources of carbs. While I agree that Friskie's is not a good food to feed because it contains rice (a source of carbs, but some cats are fine with it) and there is no way to know how much is in the formulas, if you can't afford a premium food, there are less expensive foods that are definitely lower carb. Special Kitty (Walmart) and Grreat Choice (Petsmart) make Friskies equivalents without rice that have low carb ingredients. FF classics also do not contain any ingredients that are a large source of carbs. The large, large majority of cats on this site have never had a problem with FF. Bandit is carb senstive (can't eat friskies), but he was eating FF the entire time he was on Insulin and never had a problem. He still gets it on occasion, still with no problem. It could be that a false correlation was made between the food and the higher BG, or maybe your cat had a weird reaction to it. But I would not advise against it for other owners if it's their best affordable option.

One thing to note about the EVO 95% is that it is VERY high in fat. I fed this to Bandit for a while, and he developed mild IBD because of the high fat content, which I've not had a problem with since I switched to Merricks. I was also having trouble maintaining a healthy weight with the EVO. The high protein/low fat Merricks diet made him drop fat and gain muscle without losing weight--something he wasn't able to do on the low protein/high fat EVO diet. My point is, some cats do great and thrive on the EVO diet, but it can also cause problems for other cats. In Bandit's case, I would go back to feeding FF before EVO again because of his reaction to the high fat content.

(Side note--keep in mind that EVO 95% Venison is extremely high in phosphorus and I would not recommend feeding it to any cat over the age of 12.)

It would be wonderful if there was a perfect canned food for cats, but there just isn't. So you just have to do some trial and error and decide what food is best for YOUR cat. I personally am convinced Merrick's is the best, as it's the food Bandit has most thrived on. However, as an earlier poster mentioned, Merrick's contains carrageenan which may or may not contribute to IBD problems in cats. My cat with mild IBD has never had a reaction to foods with carrageenan. However, another cat with IBD may have no problem with high fat, but have a reaction to carrageenan. Some cats may develop food intolerances over time to fish, beef, or chicken. Sometimes, a cat will only eat what food it wants to eat no matter how much you want them to switch to a different food. That's why ECID (Every cat is different) is such a mantra here. :smile:
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Julia, I agree about wishing there was a perfect, affordable canned cat food for diabetic cats!

Re: what I said about Binky's list and carb contents, when I read the ingredients on a lot of the different foods that were listed as being very low in carbs, I kept seeing things like sweet potatoes, for example, listed around the 4th ingredient. Since I did not have a list of ingredients on these foods for the dates that Binky's numbers were last updated, I could only assume that these sources of carbs were added after the last update. I'm trying to purchase foods that don't have anything like sweet potatoes, rice, corn starch, etc., listed in the ingredients.

Yes, while FF classics still don't have any carbs listed in the ingredients, that I can see, I stocked up on these and started feeding Pumbaa FF classics, which he enjoyed. But it was soon after this that his numbers went up into the 500's, and so I took him off the FF in an effort to try and improve his numbers. This increase in his BG readings could have been a coincidence, but I didn't want to take that chance.

Thank you the heads up on the fat content in EVO. I thought the fat content was okay because, per their website, on the 95% venison, they state that protein is 12.62% and fat is 11.29%. Now I need to try and figure out the kcal from fat. That makes my brain hurt. :)

I didn't have to figure it out, thankfully, as the fat content of EVO is already listed on this spreadsheet.

So, per that SS, the 95% venison has 65% KCal from fat. Blue Wilderness varieties are all listed as having 68% KCal from fat. On just about everything, it appears that the lower the carbs the higher the fat. :roll:

BTW, I just downloaded that SS so that I could read the entire left hand column as some items that I found questionable had ingredients listed in that column. Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, for example, which I rejected in the store since the ingredients listed were: Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Fresh Sweet Potato, Fresh Carrots, Fresh Snow Peas, Fresh Whole Granny Smith Apples, Potato Starch-modified, Dried Egg, Dried Blueberry, Dried Cranberry... I freaked when I read from the 4th ingredient on. But that SS does list up to the Sweet Potato as the ingredients in the left-hand column, and it says that only 5% of the KCal is carbs. How can that be with sweet potatoes, carrots, snow peas, apples and potato starch? Now I'm even more confused than ever. *LOL*
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Pumbaa said:
Re: what I said about Binky's list and carb contents, when I read the ingredients on a lot of the different foods that were listed as being very low in carbs, I kept seeing things like sweet potatoes, for example, listed around the 4th ingredient. Since I did not have a list of ingredients on these foods for the dates that Binky's numbers were last updated, I could only assume that these sources of carbs were added after the last update. I'm trying to purchase foods that don't have anything like sweet potatoes, rice, corn starch, etc., listed in the ingredients.
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You definitely want to avoid any grains (rice, corn, soy, wheat, etc.), but potatoes CAN be ok depending on how much is actually in the food. I personally would not feed a food with potatoes without the updated as-fed values. If the food has a low carb content, sweet potatoes especially do not necessarily have a negative effect on BG.

Pumbaa said:
BTW, I just downloaded that SS so that I could read the entire left hand column as some items that I found questionable had ingredients listed in that column. Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, for example, which I rejected in the store since the ingredients listed were: Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Fresh Sweet Potato, Fresh Carrots, Fresh Snow Peas, Fresh Whole Granny Smith Apples, Potato Starch-modified, Dried Egg, Dried Blueberry, Dried Cranberry... I freaked when I read from the 4th ingredient on. But that SS does list up to the Sweet Potato as the ingredients in the left-hand column, and it says that only 5% of the KCal is carbs. How can that be with sweet potatoes, carrots, snow peas, apples and potato starch? Now I'm even more confused than ever. *LOL*
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While Cowboy Cookout contains sweet potato and some vegetables, it contains a very small amount--which is why it's only 5% carbs. It's perfectly fine to feed foods with small amounts of vegetables, but if you do you need to periodically check the ingredients on the label to see if anything has changed. If there are no changes in the formula, it's unlikely anything has changed carb-wise. The sweet potato is fine because despite it's name, it actually has a very low glycemic index (the GI tells you how much a food will impact BG), where regular potatoes have a medium-high glycemic index. http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php. If you look at the label on the merrick's can, it even says "low glycemic", because they actually got their foods rated for diabetic pets: http://www.gripetfoods.com/CertifiedCatFoods.htm. You still want to look at the chart, though, because even though some are low glycemic, they may not necessarily be low carb.

A food that contains ingredients with a high glycemic index will effect BG more than a food with a low glycemic index even if they have the same number of carbs.

What the 95-96% foods do is use fat as a filler instead of veggies. However, what you'll find is even though it is 95% Beef, for example, there is less muscle meat in a can of 95% EVO Beef than there is in a can of Cowboy Cookout, because Merrick's uses more muscle meat and less sweet potato as a filler than EVO uses muscle meat in proportion to fat. So the Merricks turns out to be healthier, because the protein/fat/carb ratio is in the ideal range for a cat.

Dr. Lisa's guide to choosing a commercial food is very helpful when staring at the nutrition chart! http://catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods. Here are a couple quotes that are relevant:

The composition of a feline diet is important because cats are designed to eat a high protein (~50% of calories, or more), moderate fat (~40% of calories or less), and very low carbohydrate (well below 10% of calories) diet.

Unfortunately, this fact is at odds with the issue of profit margin given that carbohydrate and fat sources are cheaper than animal-based protein sources.
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Another example of a product with an insignificant amount of species-inappropriate ingredients is Wellness canned food. It lists several ingredients (such as carrots, broccoli, blueberries, etc.) that are high in carbohydrates but when you look at the actual carbohydrate content of the food, it is very low. What does that tell us? It tells us that those inappropriate ingredients are present in very low amounts and are listed on the label to appeal to the human who thinks that fruits and vegetables are good for cats. Cats have no need for fruits and vegetables but they are acceptable ingredients if present in low amounts.
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Update July, 2011: It is no secret (among those who know me well) that the commercial pet food industry frustrates the heck out of me. With regard to the comment above advising to look for a muscle meat as the first ingredient, please be aware that most of the grain-free/no by-product/muscle meat choices such as Wellness, Nature's Variety, EVO 95%, etc. are very high in fat and relatively low in protein in order to keep the profit margin high.

Given this fact, I can't help but wonder if Friskies, 9-Lives, etc. (all by-products, no muscle meat) may actually be better diets because many of these by-product foods are higher in protein and lower in fat than the more expensive diets that are free of by-products.

High protein/low fat is especially important for cats trying to lose weight but do be aware that some of the highest protein by-product foods are high in fish and we do not want to feed a lot of fish.
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Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Julia, thank you once again. There is just sooooo much information to try and absorb in the very beginning.

People here on these boards are intelligent, outspoken, and good about sharing information. Has anyone ever started a campaign to get board members to write to their congressmen and ask for a bill to require actual nutritional values be listed on pet foods? Life would be so much simpler, for all of us, if pet food had to be labelled the same way that human food is.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Pumbaa said:
Julia, thank you once again. There is just sooooo much information to try and absorb in the very beginning.

People here on these boards are intelligent, outspoken, and good about sharing information. Has anyone ever started a campaign to get board members to write to their congressmen and ask for a bill to require actual nutritional values be listed on pet foods? Life would be so much simpler, for all of us, if pet food had to be labelled the same way that human food is.
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OMG, this is my DREAM.

However, first the veterinarians need to understand and explain these concepts to people before we have any hope of a campaign like that. Most people and vets don't even understand basic nutritional concepts for cats (including myself until about 4 years ago) so I think a massive education campaign for vets needs to happen first. I have no idea how you would go about something like that, other than to just keep sharing information.

I live in a city where cats are VERY popular pets (I think we are one of the few cities where they outnumber dogs), so I am fortunate enough where at least these concepts trickle down some from Cornell, to the vets, and into the community. I always make a gift of This Book whenever a friend of mine adopts a cat. My friends now jokingly call me the "crazy cat information lady", because they know I've done so much reading I usually have a solution to whatever problem comes up, and because I've gone on one too many rants in public about dry cat food. :oops:
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

When life calms down a bit, I am willing to devote time to make this dream a reality. :) At least the part about having pet food labels contain actual nutritional values and no more of this minimum/maximum stuff.

As for the vets, they are in the same boat we are, without having the pet food labeled with actual nutritional values. As people here have stated, vets have to be experts on so many different things, that pet food nutrition probably isn't very high on their list. Same thing is true of too many MD's these days. Instead of urging people to control certain conditions with dietary changes, they just prescribe pills. And then more pills to counteract those pills. It's sad.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Julia: Thank you so much for bringing up the high fat content of the EVO, and also for bringing up the Merrick foods again, which caused me to look closer at them after dismissing them for the sweet potatoes and apples, etc., because I thought that the carb content had changed.

I am going to get some Merrick foods this weekend, and balance the EVO high fat with lower fat Merrick, and with even lower fat Trader Joe's Tuna for Cats, as my cats love their fishy foods.

BTW, I had emailed Merrick today asking for nutritional values, and they emailed me back confirming what was listed on the spreadsheet I referenced above.

Because ingredients can change over time, I think it would be helpful if those charts/spreadsheets that we refer to would list the ingredients, in order, so that as a chart ages, we newbies can compare the ingredients on a current can of food to the ingredients that existed when the KCal values were calculated to set our minds at ease that these are still valid low-carb foods.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Thanks harrysmom for the info (and all of the other posts). I will ask my vet if I can return the unused cans of Purina DM for credit and will check into Grreat Choice and prices around this way. Maybe my vet will be okay with that brand. I can try a couple of cans to see if the cats will like it. I think I'm so used to my cats all eating what they were fed before without a problem that it's a new experience when they actually refuse to eat some foods, lol. I hope that they'll be able to stick to one that is okay for Boy and not start to get picky after awhile.
 
Re: Food quality going down, price going up - READ THE LABEL

Know have tried and returned Merrick in the past :roll: it's one food I wish she would eat but no interest. Think tried Evo in the past without luck. Came home from sisters this afternoon. Stopped for Tuna bark but new ownership, they didnt have it :evil: Snuggled Missy and like well trained owner that I am lifted missy to sink for a drink while I cleaned litterbox. I then put out instinct lamb with her Aloe Vera juice which she wolfed down.

They had Instinct in small FF sized cans :-D
I also got a can of the tiki cat chicken to try on her, as no rice corn wheat or other things to avoid.
 
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