Food issues - Need advice

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Barb & Mr. Frog

Member Since 2013
So... not sure where to begin, my cats were all fed dry most of their lives ( /guilt) When Frog was diagnosed in april with Diabetes, I immediately switched to all canned (this is a huge expense now, and I seem to throw away more than they eat some days)

At first, other than small issues, everything seemed better... I saw increases in energy, fur quality, mood, etc.

Now however, 3 of my civvies (and a possible fourth) are exhibiting signs of kidney failure...excessive peeing (sometimes baseball sized clumps) excessive drinking (2 fountains and two water bowls down, have to refill often) ... So, I went back again to the friskies special diet for those kitties... this only works some of the time, they eat the special diet every couple of days, when I offer it every day it gets wasted/refused.. and worse, the only one they eat consistently is the chicken one with the gravy, not something I really want to be putting down because of Frog.. or the salmon, which being fish I shouldn't be offering every day anyway from my understanding.

I can't afford to take them all to the vet, it simply can't happen, already scraping to save up for Frog's upcoming checkup/insulin... heading into winter and there is no money in winter due to dh being laid off, unemployment doesn't even cover the house payment. So, I have to go after the one thing I DO have control of... their diet.

I want to try feeding raw, but I'm scared now, because it seems from what I've been reading that low protein is better for kidney problems... does that mean raw would be a bad choice for them? How does phosphorous end up in canned food, is it part of the meat? If I started feeding raw would it be just as high in phosphorous?


I feel so awful, as if I've already lost them because I can't get them the treatment I know they will need, but crying wont help, and I need to do something.. anything.

All suggestions welcome
 
No, I had been reading pretty much exclusively on Tanya's site, so ty for the link, however those food links do not work for me, page not found.

All I know is, the Fancy Feast is making it worse, I need to switch, and they are not interested in eating the cheaper canned foods. I can't spend more than I already am..... I'm positively terrified of how I'll feed them this winter, I was hoping if I could do it right the raw diet would be better... at least I would know what is in it, but I don't want to make things worse than I already have :(
 
Shoot. Didn't work for me either. Here is a list Deb and Wink posted:


Quote:
Proper Nutrition for Cats with Chronic Kidney Failure
A diet high in excellent quality protein and lower than normal amounts of sodium and phosphorous is recommended. Controlling phosphorous intake has proven to be very important in controlling the progression of kidney disease.

Many veterinarians still insist that a renal diet should be low in protein, despite studies that show aging pets -- including those with kidney disease -- need more, not less protein. But it has to be very high quality protein.
The latest research on feline kidney disease says high protein diet is the new recommendation for cats with kidney disease.


This list should help you find foods that are low enough in phosphorus and carbs for your diabetic kitty with kidney disease.

Shortcut shopping list <250 phosphorus. Adapted from Rhiannon & Shadow’s shortcut list
all values are from Dr. Pierson's updated list, September 2012

carbs in % . . last number is phosphorus ( FKD cats need under 250 phosphorus)

5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Liver entree 241
5% - Friskies Special diet Turkey and Giblets dinner pate 189
5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Chicken Entree pate 242
7% - Friskies Special Diet with Salmon 228

3% Weruva Paw Lickin' chicken 196
9% Weruva Green Eggs & chicken 230
4% Weruva On the Cat Wok 163
5% Weruva Steak Frites 118
7% Weruva MidEast Feast 202

Weruva Cats in the Kitchen canned food
3% La Isla Bonita 166
8% Funk in the Trunk 250
4% Fowl Ball 180
8% Lamb Burger-ini 236
2% Chicken Frick 'A Zee 174
8% The Double Dip 248

5% - Merrick Cowboy cookout 202
8% - Merrick Grammy's pot pie 237
3% - Merrick Surf n Turf 229
9% -Merrick Turducken 219

1% - Merrick Before Grain cat 96% beef – 163
2% - Merrick Before Grain cat 96% turkey – 178

5% - Wellness Kitten 216
4% - Wellness chicken 219
4% - Wellness turkey 201
4% - Wellness Beef and chicken 226
6% - Wellness beef & salmon 207


8% - Wellness Core chicken/turkey/chicken liver 215
5% - Wellness Core Beef , Venison & Lamb 171

3% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Beef – 248
1% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Duck 191

2% - Natura Evo 95% chicken and turkey 155
4% - Natura Evo 95% beef – 234

2% Hounds & Gatos chicken 241
9% Hounds & Gatos Beef 250
3% Hounds & Gatos Lamb/chicken/salmon 225
3% Hounds & Gatos Lamb & Duck Liver 244

8% -Holistic Select chicken & lamb 222

3% Soulistic Polynesian Picnic 239
4% Soulistic Celestial Feast 250
7% Soulistic Upstream Dream 234
8% Soulistic Nautical Nirvana 228

9% Max Cat Chicken Supreme 173
8% Max Cat with savory duck 197
8% Max Cat with Savory Venison 214

8% Avoderm Chicken Chunks/gravy 234
2% Avoderm Tuna % chicken w/ veggies 241

9% Halo Succulent Salmon 227

1% Eukanuba adult Entree with gourmet chicken 239
8% Eukanuba adult Entree with Lamb and Rice 230
3% Eukanuba adult Entree with Pacific Salmon 241

7% Evolve -chicken 214
6% Evolve turkey 244

0% Natural Balance O'Fischally Scampi 244

5% Pinnacle Chicken and Ocean fish 175
5% Pinnacle Chicken and Tuna 221
4% Pinnacle Ocean Fish 231

3% Authority Chicken 238
7% Authority Turkey & Giblets 222
8% Authority Beef 249


BFF (Best Feline Friends ) also made by Weruva
BFF 2% Tuna and Chicken 234
BFF 2% Tuna and Salmon soulmates 236
BFF 2% Tuna and Shrimp Sweethearts 236
BFF 2% Tuna and Bonito Be Mine 240
BFF 2% Tuna & Tilapia Twosome 240
BFF 5% Tuna & Pumpkin Valentine 243
BFF 2% Tuna & Chicken Chuckles 234

8% Dr Fosters and Smiths Chicken 204

2% ZiwiPeak Lamb 224
 
Some of the sources for that were from Tanya's CRF website and the food list was a shortened list from Rhiannon & Shadow's list which was a shortcut list from Dr. Lisa Pierson's list over in catinfo.org.
 
I really don't think raw vs. cooked is the issue. The issue is that a homemade diet whether raw or cooked has the range of nutrients needed. If you end up having to add a bunch of supplements like turine, l-lysine, probiotics, etc. then you could end up spending more making cat food than buying it. I faced somewhat of the same delima recently when Hairy was dxed with diabetes. I bought high protein/low carb for him and continued to feed my other cats Friskies. This didn't work very well because I was have to chase cats and food bowls all over the house all the time to make sure the right cat was eating out of the right bowl. Feeding all of them the rx food I was giving Hairy would have been way to expensive, so I went the other direction. I add additional cooked meat (chicken, liver, gizzards, ground beef, etc.) to the canned Friskie's pate food. This ups the protein to what I was getting with the expensive speciality food without adding any additional carbs, and the cost of the added meat is no more expensive than the cheaper canned food.
 
Honestly I think I could handle the supplements and reduce the cost by buying bulk, but my concern is the special needs for the kidney babies since I can't get them vet care and while they may seem mostly ok now, that will not always be the case.

The reading I've been doing is leaving me feeling more lost and confused than when I started, it seems like for every recommendation I can find an equal + opposite one somewhere ... Plus, my relative lack of knowledge about certain things... like, as I asked above.... where DOES the phosphorous come from? Is it something the cat food companies add? Or is it in the meat? Byproduct of something else? How much does cooking change the nutrient content? I really would prefer raw if I can at least be sure it won't be more harmful than the fancy feast currently is.

Also, I keep coming across new supplement names, things I've never even heard of that are apparently good for you/them. Good lord how did I get this old and still be so dumb?

Does anyone know if the supplements can be added at serving time vs pre-mixed? I was thinking if I could just have the meat pre-prepared I could add the supplements at each meal, that would also give me some freedom to alter quantities if problems arise, or in the case of the kidney babies possible/probable different supplementations.

Some part of me curses the idealistic young girl that never thought about what would happen when her babies started getting old >,<
 
Here is some info from a DVM about making your own cat food. I considered trying this a while back but it was just too expensive and complicated.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood

The thing about phosphorus is not that it is harmful to the kidneys. Healthy kidneys remove excess phosphorus to help maintain the proper calcium/phosphorus balance. Failing kidneys are not able to do that as well so the excess phosphorus depletes the calcium which in turn can lead to bone weakening.

Two of the cats at the sanctuary where I work were diagnosed months ago with CRF. They received daily sub q fluids and a weekly B12 shot. They also get an additive to their food that contains calcium, probiotics, and l-lysine, and maybe some other nutrients (I am at home so don't have access to the container right now). But aside from the food additive, they have the same diet as the rest of the cats.

What concerns me is that you are self-diagnosing renal issues based on symptoms that could be for a number of different reasons, many of which have nothing to do with kidney problems. I understand the cost issue, but before you go out on a limb trying to treat the cats for something they may not have, I would suggest maybe taking one of the cats in for a blood test. At least then you would have some sort of baseline for know what or if to treat that cat and others displaying identical symptoms.
 
Barb & Mr. Frog said:
So is raw a complete no-no for kidney issues?
Click to expand...
not necessarily. Dr. Lisa of catinfo.org offers consults (for a fee) on making a raw cat food recipe lower in phosphorus for kitties with kidney issues... recipes tailor-made to the individual kitty's blood work. however, like nancyjac, i think the bigger issue is diagnosing renal issues on symptoms alone. the symptoms you're describing could be attributed to other illnesses. perhaps your vet would be willing to work out some sort of payment plan with you???

if in fact your kitties do have renal issues, you could also talk to your vet about whether adding a phosphorus binder to their regular food would be appropriate.

re: the cost of making raw food...
most of us have found making our own raw food in bulk to be more cost effective than feeding commercially prepared cat foods. i no longer make raw, but i used to order 30 - 50 pounds of meat at a time and found it be less expensive than feeding canned foods... that included shipping costs for the raw meat from Hare Today (i didn't grind my own meat). others grind their own meat for additional savings.
 
Jill & Alex said:
most of us have found making our own raw food in bulk to be more cost effective than feeding commercially prepared cat foods. i no longer make raw, but i used to order 30 - 50 pounds of meat at a time and found it be less expensive than feeding canned foods... that included shipping costs for the raw meat from Hare Today (i didn't grind my own meat). others grind their own meat for additional savings.
Click to expand...

Do you get a quantity discount? I looked at their prices and they are higher than my local grocery store. At over $4/lb for chicken, that would be over twice the cost of canned food (I pay abou $0.50/can for Friskies pate and the net weight of three cans is slightly more than a pound). So $1.50/lb for canned food, $4/lb for just the meat for home made, not counting bone meal and other added nutrients.

The meat I buy locally is about the same price/pound as the canned food. I use the additional meat to up the protein without adding any additional carbs, but because the bone meal and other nutrients are in the canned food, I don't have to buy a bunch of additional supplements to add to a pure meat diet.
 
i think the difference is you're not figuring in the addition of water to the raw food recipe. 30 - 50 pounds of ground up meat (the whole bird, bones & all) makes much, much more than 30 - 50 pounds of cat food.

there is an initial start up cost in feeding raw when you buy supplements, but they go a long way. i (and others) have broken the cost down (in my case over several years) and making my own raw was definitely a savings.
 
Ah, ok, good point Alex. I have gone back and forth over the years with making my own cat food, both for my own cats, and the cats at the sanctuary that I care for, but time, cost (start up and recurring), freezer space, etc. have always deterred me from going full steam ahead with it. For now, using the combo of canned and homemade will have to do, but I appreciate the new info you have provided that I will include in my considerations next time I consider going all the way with it.
 
I bought some ground turkey and offered it... most ate it readily but a couple did not, so I will have to go slow anyway, and supplementing the current food with raw sounds like an excellent place to start, now if only I can find the grinder attachment for my kitchen-aid to do the chicken thighs I bought :roll:
 
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