Food Forum, Anyone?

[Critter Mom]

First, how are you deciding who is going to get access to this to enter information? The right information for doing these calculations (regardless if the spreadsheet is doing them) can sometimes be hard to come by and a lot of people don't understand what that information is - and sometimes don't even realize it's not the correct information. Every company is different and may present it in different ways. I'm sorry, but from my experience, having someone just go down the page entering numbers and letting the spreadsheet do the rest is an over-simplication -- I've seen far too many people post information, thinking they're doing the right thing, and it's not.

I'm not trying to be discouraging - just saying to be careful if people are going to be counting on this information.

I agree. Editors need to understand the data on nutrition sites in order to enter the correct values upon which to base calculations (myself included). I also think that it would be a good idea for some sort of peer review/accuracy checking (numbers) to be part of maintaining the list. (We all get tired and then out come the howlers!) Indeed, I don't think a spreadsheet like this should even be released to editors until all calculation formulae are thoroughly checked to be correct, and I think that editorial access should only be granted to people who can correctly interpret manufacturer analyses (with a cast iron "If in doubt, leave it out" rule. Better no information than wrong information. I don't know how 'typo' inaccuracies might be caught. There really should be some proofing process in place. If this goes ahead, it would be wise to have a disclaimer (the list is for convenience but double-check manufacturer/label data and consult your vet). Even if the data at time of inclusion is 100% accurate, recipes change.

there's far more to it than just worrying about phosphorus levels - I ran a CRF group for a few years and people want to know protein, phosphorus, calcium, even sodium, magnesium, etc. (In fact, only worrying about phosphorus is an over-simplification of treating a CRF cat.)

The little I've gleaned about CRF is that protein, calcium and phosphorus percentages are all important, but I find the way calcium and phosphorus information is presented on websites can be confusing much of the time. That section of the proposed list needs input: I don't have the knowledge.

Another suggestion - I know it's not final - put the information people want to see to the left and leave the raw data off to the right. I'd just be leary leaving the raw data as the first thing you see - people could confuse that. If someone is truly looking for just carbs as a % of calories (and they know it's the colored section) that might be OK. But you also have a percent of carbs that's actually a percent of weight. Will people get that? A lot of people assume if it says "as fed," that's what they want. (It's not labeled as % of weight, and even if it was, a lot of people wouldn't get it, especially math-phobes.)

My preference would be to have data entry on a separate tab altogether and have Google Sheets generate the "reader-friendly" version, similar to the way that the World mmol/L BG spreadsheet automatically presents the information in the mg/dL units familiar to US forum members in a sheet on a separate tab. The main bugbear with this approach is that editors would need to be a little more spreadsheet-savvy to do routine sorting of the list and making sure that they don't knock the formulae out of sync (something that makes me wriggle - a mistake there could turn the sheet to nonsense.).

I'm also a bit leary of putting those labels on the carb levels. Someone is going to take that as advice and that is not a good idea, especially as a catch-all for any cat in any situation. Are you really saying any food above 16% carbs is appropriate in any emergency situation??

I agree that guidelines - if included at all - should be worded with extreme care. Bearing in mind that the spreadsheet is very much a mock-up, I just threw that out as an idea which may or may not be useful. As it is, I've asked on this thread about what ranges FDMB uses to categorise foods as low, medium or high carb. I'm still waiting for an answer to that question. (As a precaution, I've just edited the spreadsheet headers to remove the 'demo' values and text so that if anyone stumbles across this thread there won't be any content in the mock-up that a casual reader might actually take away and use. Grateful for the heads-up!)

ETA:

I've just put "Discussion Draft" banner headings on all the sheets in the file, plus a caveat to browsers that the data's not valid.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Edited to add: Spreadsheet is working fine

Ha! No, it transpires that my own spreadsheet wasn't "working fine" after all. Some of my calculation boxes have become corrupted somehow (maybe when switching over to new computer...)

But the calculation to get percentage of calories starts with this:

Protein: 3.5 kcal/g
Fat: 8.5 kcal/g
Carbs: 3.5 kcal/g

And then you divide the calories per 100g for protein, fat and carbs by the total calories per 100g, and then multiply by 100. That will give the percentage of calories.

If the food has close to 100 calories per 100g of food then the numbers will be the same (ie, if there are 7 calories in 100g of food then the percentage of calories from carbs is 7%)
However, if the calories per 100g is significantly higher/lower than 100 then the last calculation can be very important.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

As it is, I've asked on this thread about what ranges FDMB uses to categorise foods as low, medium or high carb. I'm still waiting for an answer to that question.

I don't think there is a simple answer to that question.

The general guidance here is that for diabetic cats the percentage of calories from carbs should be less than 10%. And these foods are considered, broadly speaking, to be 'low carb' and are the ones that usually appear on our food lists.
But a lot will depend on how carb sensitive the cat is. Some folks may find, for example, that anything above 8% is too high for their cat on a day to day basis (and a food that has 9 - 10% calories from carbs may be a 'medium carb' food for their cat.). And some cats that have gone into remission here have only remained in remission because of foods that have lower carb content than this.

I've seen some people say here that foods of around 10 - 12% or 12 -15% cals from carbs are their 'medium carb' range.

Regarding high carb foods: When cats are in low numbers that need to be raised I've often seen US folks advise feeding the gravy from specific foods (there's one in particular that is often recommended, but I can't remember the name of it.) I don't know what the UK/EU or Oz/NZ equivalents of those foods would be. But maybe someone else here does...?
And every situation in low numbers is different; maybe low carb will suffice, maybe slightly higher carb is needed, maybe glucose/karo is needed, or maybe even dry food.

Perhaps it would be worth your posting your question on the main health forum so that more people will see it?

Eliz

 

[Critter Mom]

Eliz,

Thank you for the explanation but I know how to work out the calorie percentages.

I only included the multiplier information for clarification. Sometimes one sees recommendations to multiply protein value by 4, fat by 9, and carbs by 4. When I listed the multipliers I used to set up the formulae in the spreadsheet I was seeking to confirm to the group that I was using the FDMB-recommended multipliers and to seek confirmation that the multipliers were the right ones. I'm sorry it has caused so much confusion, but I felt it was a necessary part of the design process to confirm the multipliers to show my working.

 

[Critter Mom]

I don't think there is a simple answer to that question.

The general guidance here is that for diabetic cats the percentage of calories from carbs should be less than 10%.

Given that there does not appear to be a board concensus on what carb kilocalorie percentages would qualify a food as being medium or high carb, then I think that the colour coding should be either:

1. Set to highlight foods under 10% in, say, green, and all other values would be left with a white background. Maybe add some sort of comment to indicate that the general FDMB recommendation is to give foods with less than 10% calories from carbs but that individual cats respond differently to different carb loads.

2. Abandoned altogether.
.

 

[BJM]

For companion animals, the calories are 3.5 for protein and carbohydrate and 8.5 for fats. See the Merck Veterinary Manual.

They are different for humans.

 

[Blamethecats and Hannah]

I do support Elizabeth's suggestion for some quick, easy to access, general information in one section as well as a more detailed breakdown elsewhere. I could also if you like offer to be a 'lowest common denominator' guinea pig, as it were, and road-test a document to see if it is helpful for people like me who find anything to do with numbers and data extremely difficult.

Yes, please make data available that is easy to decipher for those of us who aren't very good with numbers and have trouble understanding info that is just way too technical. More isn't always better for some of us. I often access way-too-detailed info and just give up trying to figure it out, thus leaving me with no benefit. That's why @Diana&Tom is correct about a section for just general, easy to understand info. Many of us simply can't handle anything too detailed and gather nothing from it.

Kudos to those of you who have the ability to compose and easily understand "greater things". I think it's wonderful and I don't know what the rest of us would do without you. THANK YOU SO MUCH!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!

 

[Critter Mom]

For companion animals, the calories are 3.5 for protein and carbohydrate and 8.5 for fats. See the Merck Veterinary Manual.

Hi BJ,

Thanks for confirming that I used the correct multipliers. I feel better having the input reviewed and double-checked to make sure I haven't introduced any errors.

 

[BaileyUK]

Hello all,I really wish I could help you,but like Diana I too am not technically minded.I am full of admiration for the time and effort you are putting in to what will an invaluable link, but for what it's worth I think you are making it unnecessarily technical and complicated,keep the data simple,let's get it up and running,more detailed info can be added on at a later date.Hope I haven't upset anyone these are only my thoughts!!

 

[phlika29]

I agree with bailey, keep it as simple as possible. I do hope no one minds these comments. If I am honest it would say that at the moment there is alot of detailed info on there already. Too much maybe.

The dry matter values and the nutrition analysis on the label just seem confusing. If they are going to stay on the front page then they might best be placed at the end of the line.

Really people want to see the headline data first. Ie my cat needs a low carb food and people are telling me it has to be below 10%. So that is my main focus and to me should be first in line.

 

[anna and bailey.uk england]

im glad you guys have brought this up.its all getting so confusing! you don't want too much to take in all at once. its hard enough at the start when youre trying to get to grips with dosing, testing, etc so to then have to try and understand all of this its all abit overwhelming!it just needs to be simple.i hope you guys dont mind me saying :-/ maybe its just me being thick and not very good when it comes to crazy technical stuff on computers but i wouldnt have a clue where to start.maybe links on there rather than it all being in one place! I hope I haven't or don't upet anyone by saying this.its good that people have taken, and are taking the time to do this. we all appreciate it.xxx

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Okey dokey, folkies,

So how about we start from what most people actually want to see?

At it's simplest this could just be a list of foods and the percentage of calories from carbs.
There's no doubt that having a basic list like this would certainly be helpful. And it's not difficult to do, and shouldn't be too complicated to maintain.
Is that enough? If 'yes', then super-duper (Crikey, that was easy!)

If this isn't enough info for folks then more info can be added. As to 'what' should be added, that is for you to decide. This is a resource for you: So it's for you to decide what information goes into the document.

Eliz

.

 

[Diana&Tom]

Isn't the ideal what was mooted a good few posts ago, ie a 'simple' front page supplying the basics, and then a further page/'layer' (or layers) of additional info for those who need more detailed info? The first page could contain links to specific extra info, perhaps. It would be a shame to waste all the expertise of people here offering their time to do a thorough job - most people may initially just look for the basics, but if a more comprehensive document benefits just one FDMBer then it's worthwhile.

 

[anna and bailey.uk england]

that sounds like a much better idea! here here to that!!!

 

[Critter Mom]

With regret, I'm afraid I'm going to have to withdraw from this exercise. This sort of work used to be my professional bread and butter but, behind the scenes, my cognitive impairments have made it a real struggle to contribute thus far; and trying to present cogent arguments in support of my suggestions on how maintenance and presentation of the food information could be streamlined are just proving too much for me. I'm not great health-wise at the best of times and I've learned from repeated experience that trying to push myself beyond my limitations only makes me much worse. It's a shortcoming on my part that I cannot manage to explain my reasoning behind how the "mechanics" might be designed to assist contributors when adding information to the list while simultaneously offering a 'clean' display of information for list users. (Please see the new tab "UK Food List - Draft A3" to see a possible end-user list layout that would have been feasible with the system I was proposing.)

I'm sorry if the visibility of the design process has been off-putting to members reading this thread. So much of what appears on the face of it to be simple in our lives ends up that way because of a lot of 'backroom' stuff that other people do for us and therefore we never see. Unfortunately in a collaborative design discussion it's not possible to screen that off from the people who only need to see the 'end product'. I apologise for any confusion or worry this may have caused members. As I mentioned in a previous post, all of the 'technical stuff' currently visible in the draft spreadsheets could be placed 'behind the scenes' (for contributor use only, and ideally on a separate tab in the sheet) but that takes proper design and planning in the early stages in order to end up with the 'simple', accurate list that people want to view once the food list goes live.

I share the same reservations as @Erimess & Sammy (GA) about where this exercise could come unstuck. I don't share the vision of any random 'current pool' of members being able to contribute to the creation and maintenance of a reliable list (and a public list needs to be reliable). It may be a very attractive idea in theory, but in practice I think it's problematic. As I said in an earlier post, I agree wholeheartedly with Erimess that contributors really do need to understand the base nutrition data they'll be working with, even if it's only to calculate and include information on the carb rating of the foods. I'm also concerned that attempts to oversimplify the spreadsheet may result in the creation of a central reference resource which does not contain the base nutrition data used and which therefore would have the potential to become very error-ridden (particularly if calculations end up being done outside the list spreadsheet file) since it would not provide the opportunity for adequate peer review of input data - for accuracy in the first instance, and for auditing to ensure currency of information going forward (the main impetus behind this exercise as I understand it).

I think that it would be a missed opportunity to exclude the dry matter information. It could be such a great help to members whose cats have multiple health issues (e.g. showing fat content may be very helpful to caregivers of cats with pancreatitis). The additional nutrition information could be generated without any extra work on the part of contributors (provided the calculations are done within the Google document). With some careful thought given to providing informative column headings, it should be feasible to present the additional nutrition information without causing confusion or inconvenience to caregivers whose only interests are the carb ratings of foods and where to buy them.

For the above reasons, as they say in Dragon's Den, I'm out. I wish everyone working on the list the very best with the project. I hope that some of my input helped. BTW, I haven't got my 'nose out of joint' about any of the comments posted on the thread. On the contrary, the feedback helped to reinforce the misgivings I was already having and I found it helpful in making the decision to end my participation in this exercise. I'm just really uncomfortable with the way this project seems to be heading now, and trying to contribute really has taken a toll on my health. I hope you all understand.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi Aine,

I'm very sorry that your health problems are such that you feel unable to continue with the project.
I do completely understand.
In fact, yesterday morning I decided that I would be withdrawing from the project myself, for similar reasons.
However, in the circumstances I had best remain and 'muddle through'; at least until someone else steps forward who is willing to take this on.

All good wishes to you,

Eliz

 

[BJM]

The link to the spreadsheet can be made so that only those working on it can see it and no one else. If you need/want to do that, let me know.

 

[phlika29]

I actually think we are all saying the same thing, its just none of us can explain ourselves very well. Theses sort of threads do inevitably cause mass confusion.

For those who wish to continue it might be better to do it off the public forum.

In the end everyone is going to be happy with whatever is decided upon. No one was suggesting that the in depth data should not be there but that maybe it just wasnt most people primary concern and so needn't be as prominent. It would be a shame if this idea wouldn't go forward due to issues that I believe can be overcome.

 

[BaileyUK]

Hi Elizabeth,how very commendable of you,I just wish I had the knowledge to muck in and help you out,but as I have said before I am brain dead regarding computers.At the end of the day we are not trying to put a professional web site together! our main aim is a simple link that can be easy maintenance for future members to keep updated.The US recommendations on suitable foods for FD's seems to fit the bill,and is very straightforward,is it not not possible for us to move forward on their lines? I hope this is not proving too much for you,let's hope someone can offer to jump onboard and help you out.A big thanks from me Eliz as I know how you always put the welfare of the kitties first.
Diane. X. (Bailey says thankyou too )

 

[anna and bailey.uk england]

critter mom if youre in such bad health you really should just look after yourself and let other people deal with these situations.xxxx its not worth the risk of making yourself ill! :-( why would you put yourself in that situation! your need is you and your kitty. as is all of us here! its a tough job when youre kitty is diagnosed . I got ill just dealing with it all but if you got complications as well its best not to take on too much <3 elizabeth and bertie thanku for taking this on.its a tough job but much needed! xx

 

[Critter Mom]

Thank you, Anna, for your kind and thoughtful post. In answer to your question about why I wanted to participate in this process, it's because I wanted to do something to pay forward for all the help I have received here.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

The link to the spreadsheet can be made so that only those working on it can see it and no one else. If you need/want to do that, let me know.

Thanks BJ @BJM , that could be helpful in the short term.
And especially so since the only person that will be working on it at the moment is me.
I'm only beginning to fathom out how everything works, and it would be nice to have the freedom to play (and to make mistakes) in order to learn what I need to know.

Eliz

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Here's the read-only version.

UK folks, I've put together a list of foods, their carb values, and some other basic info.
The list is on the 4th page of the draft document that BJ links to in her quote above (click on her link and then on 'UK Food List Draft B' at the top left hand side of the page.)

I fully accept that it may not be everything that people want or need, but I felt it was important to get some information out there (albeit basic).

The list includes: The brand name, the variety, where it can be bought, the percentage of calories from carbs, the phosphorous level if available (dry matter calculation), the calories per 100g, and a 'comments' column that includes the pack sizes and, alongside that, any other comments that seemed particularly pertinent to make (I accept that 'what to include' is subjective and therefore is bound, at times, to seem either incomplete or to be too much info (depending on your perspective)).
The 'calories per 100g' are next to the pack sizes so it should be easy to calculate how many calories in a can/pouch (and if the pack size is 100g it's a no-brainer.... )

There is also a section at the far side of the sheet that shows more information from the can/pouch label ('Typical Analysis' percentages); so if folks feel they need to do more calculations themselves because of their kitty's own specific needs then they should have the data to do that.

The 'percentage of calories from carbs' column, the 4th column in, is yellow and so should still be easy to find as you scroll down the page ('follow the yellow brick road.....')

This sheet doesn't do any calculations. I did them myself, so they may not all be perfect.

There are over 150 foods listed, including a handful of raw foods.
Many of the foods are from Zooplus or the Happy Kitty Co. (God bless 'em), but I have tried to include some lower carb foods from supermarkets also.
The main purpose, in compiling the list, was to show foods that had less than 10% cals from carbs; and what the sheet doesn't show is the relative quality of the foods on the list.

The list I've collated can be added to, and maybe the table can also be augmented to include other useful stuff (though that would quite possibly need to be done by someone smarter than me.)

I hope you find this information useful. If you know of foods that you'd like added to the list then please let me know what they are. And also let me know if you spot any errors and I'll do my best to correct them.

Best wishes,

Eliz

 

[Diana&Tom]

Well, what can I say but wow! Eliz, you have done an amazing job and we are all indebted to you for your dedication and hard work. Just a thought - would it be an idea to start a new thread to update everyone on this matter, so it can go to the top of the list and everyone can see that real progress has been made?
Thank you Eliz for all your work on behalf of kitties and their peeps...

Diana x

 

[phlika29]

Hi Elizabeth

This is fantastic! Well done it's going to be such a great resource. Sorry I haven't commented before, when remi is poorly I tend to obsess by myself and so haven't been online much recently.

Can you add filters to the top of the columns so you can filter results.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Can you add filters to the top of the columns so you can filter results.

That sounds like it could be helpful, Sarah, but I've no idea how to do that (and can that be done with a 'read-only' version?). I've just about worked out how to type in those fiddly itsy bitsy boxes and that's pretty much the extent of what I'm capable of so far (not being the techy type)
But maybe BJ @BJM can help..?

I'm so very sorry to hear that Remi is poorly.
Is it a pancreatitis flair up?
Sending well-wishes to your beautiful boy, and hugs to you,

Eliz

 

[BaileyUK]

Hello Elizabeth,
Just seen you have released the UK food list.I haven't been around for a few days as Bailey has developed another problem,his breathing was slightly heavy so off to the vet,he couldn't pick up anything listening to his breathing,so took X-ray,it showed slight fluid on lungs!!
You have done a brilliant job on the food list,thank you so much for all the hard work it must have taken a lot of effort on your part.it's very comprehensive.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Bailey has developed another problem,his breathing was slightly heavy so off to the vet,he couldn't pick up anything listening to his breathing,so took X-ray,it showed slight fluid on lungs!!

Oh, Diane...
Poor Bailey, and poor you. You've had so much to cope with lately.
....Is Bailey's tail healing at all.....?

Hugs to you, and well-wishes to Bailey,

Eliz

 

[BJM]

I was able to freeze the heading rows, however due to cells which are merged together, it was not possible to put any kind of data filter on it. If you want that functionality, all rows below the filtering row must have individual cells; no merged cells. You may be able to save a copy to your own drive, or download it to your computer, unmerge any cells, copy down data into the now blank unmerged cells, then apply a data filter.

 

[BaileyUK]

Hi Elizabeth,
Bailey is back at the vet tomorrow,his tail is bandaged up,but yes it is healing,and he isn't trying to pull the bandage off.
We seem to be getting one health issue after another,but this latest one I am so concerned about.the vet wanted to have him in for the day and take fluid from his chest to find out what is causing the fluid,but I don't want him put through anymore stress,if it was the only health issue it would be different,but we seem to be battling with so many issues.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

I was able to freeze the heading rows, however due to cells which are merged together, it was not possible to put any kind of data filter on it. If you want that functionality, all rows below the filtering row must have individual cells; no merged cells. You may be able to save a copy to your own drive, or download it to your computer, unmerge any cells, copy down data into the now blank unmerged cells, then apply a data filter.

Thanks for that, BJ. That was really kind of you.
Though - huge apologies - I must confess that I only understood about every third word of that... (Nothing to do with your explanation, and everything to do with my inability to comprehend...)
(In my next life maybe I'll be blessed with brain-stuff instead of having to be someone who just spends their days fiddling with arty-farty stuff in order to to earn a shekel or two... )

Eliz

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Bailey is back at the vet tomorrow

Diane,
Good luck with tomorrow's vet visit!
(BTW - Have PM'd you)

Eliz

 

[BJM]

When 2 cells are joined into 1 bigger cell, they anchor the data in such a way you can't sort it.

Freezing rows (always at the top) means making it so when you page down, those rows stay displayed at the top. You can freeze columns on the left, too.

To filter data, the spreadsheet has a way to make drop down arrows that you can click on, display a list of values in that column, then select specific values to review. It cuts down on wading through pages and pages of data you don't want to see. For example, you might want to select only foods that list "pate" or "duck".

 

[phlika29]

Oh dear there seems to be a few of us from the uk whose cats are having problems.

About two weeks ago remi started to throw up in the morning before his first feed and then over that first weekend I had to take him to the vets because he had trouble peeing. The peeing resolved with additional water intake but the throwing up continued as did the gurgling tummy and burping. I took him to his normal vet and it seems that remi has had a flair up of his small intestine issue and pancreatitis but his kidney values are also out of whack (high urea, high creatinine high cholesterol, slightly high sodium and slightly high ALT). So now I am wondering if the change to a very high protein diet hasn't been the best for him kidney wise but I am struggling to know what to change to as I don't really understand all the implications. Should I start a new thread listing out all of remi's issues and asking for help?

In essence I want a food that is :

Single source
Grain free
Low phosphorus level
Not too high in fat
Less protein than the thrive

What is classed as high in relation to salt intake?

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Should I start a new thread listing out all of remi's issues and asking for help?

Sounds like a good idea to start a new thread, Sarah. You'll get a lot more 'eyes' on your questions that way.

 

[LynRich]

UK folks, I've put together a list of foods, their carb values, and some other basic info.
The list is on the 4th page of the draft document that BJ links to in her quote above (click on her link and then on 'UK Food List Draft B' at the top left hand side of the page.)

I fully accept that it may not be everything that people want or need, but I felt it was important to get some information out there (albeit basic).

The list includes: The brand name, the variety, where it can be bought, the percentage of calories from carbs, the phosphorous level if available (dry matter calculation), the calories per 100g, and a 'comments' column that includes the pack sizes and, alongside that, any other comments that seemed particularly pertinent to make (I accept that 'what to include' is subjective and therefore is bound, at times, to seem either incomplete or to be too much info (depending on your perspective)).
The 'calories per 100g' are next to the pack sizes so it should be easy to calculate how many calories in a can/pouch (and if the pack size is 100g it's a no-brainer.... )

There is also a section at the far side of the sheet that shows more information from the can/pouch label ('Typical Analysis' percentages); so if folks feel they need to do more calculations themselves because of their kitty's own specific needs then they should have the data to do that.

The 'percentage of calories from carbs' column, the 4th column in, is yellow and so should still be easy to find as you scroll down the page ('follow the yellow brick road.....')

This sheet doesn't do any calculations. I did them myself, so they may not all be perfect.

There are over 150 foods listed, including a handful of raw foods.
Many of the foods are from Zooplus or the Happy Kitty Co. (God bless 'em), but I have tried to include some lower carb foods from supermarkets also.
The main purpose, in compiling the list, was to show foods that had less than 10% cals from carbs; and what the sheet doesn't show is the relative quality of the foods on the list.

The list I've collated can be added to, and maybe the table can also be augmented to include other useful stuff (though that would quite possibly need to be done by someone smarter than me.)

I hope you find this information useful. If you know of foods that you'd like added to the list then please let me know what they are. And also let me know if you spot any errors and I'll do my best to correct them.

Best wishes,

Eliz

Thanks so much for that Elizabeth, it's very helpful !

 

[phlika29]

@Elizabeth and Bertie I think I have found another brand where some of the varieties might work for diabetes

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/instinct-limited-canned-natural-healthy-foods-pets

Can you do your magic and work out if it's low carb

Check out the dry food too. It's says grain free so maybe low carb?
http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-grain-free-ultimate-protein-chicken-0

 

[phlika29]

And another brand -canagan. Some of these might be suitable. They look like the thrive food

http://www.canagan.co.uk/wet-cat-chicken-beef.html

 

[phlika29]

This is an interesting article
http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...onfirms-what-pet-cats-really-want-to-eat.aspx

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Gosh, you've been busy, Sarah! @phlika29
Thanks for that info on possible foods; I'll certainly look those up.
(And I just read that article you linked to; very interesting....)

It's a bit of a coincidence that you've mentioned a grain free dry food, because I had a spare afternoon yesterday and spent most of the time looking at grain free dry foods (yep, I really know how to live... ).
I thought I'd found one on Zooplus (Porta 21 grain free dry food) that has less than 10% calories from carbs. ...But it seemed a bit too good to be true, so I looked up the label data on the manufacturer's website and sure enough, it's slightly different to the data on the Zooplus website. It's still not bad though at 10.8% calories from carbs.
We do sometimes get folks here whose diabetic cats are dry food addicts, or who have another cat in the house who is a dry food addict, and I have been wondering if the lower carb versions of dry foods could have a role, especially perhaps as a transition food.

Thanks again for the info, Sarah!

 

[phlika29]

Found another possibility I think:

I have never heard of Simpsoms brand

http://www.simpsonspremium.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=55

This is interesting after what you said about goats milk being more easily digested
http://www.toplifeformula.com/cats/goats-milk-powder.aspx

They also do a chicken food but can't see the nutrients
http://www.toplifeformula.com/cats/food-for-cats.aspx

 

[Critter Mom]

This is an interesting article
http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...onfirms-what-pet-cats-really-want-to-eat.aspx

Good article, Sarah. Thanks for posting.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Thanks again for the links you gave, Sarah @phlika29
That info has resulted in another 11 cat foods being added to the UK list.

Some of the Canagan cat foods are supplementary (ie not complete), but it might also be worth listing a few supplementary foods as these can be very useful for tempting inappetant cats, and for giving meds (as they tend to be very palatable).

(The 'Instinct' pet foods are US foods and I couldn't find them for sale in the UK. But they still look like a good option for US folks!)

 

[Critter Mom]

Hi Sarah,

I emailed the crowd about the Toplife food for you. They don't do it anymore but they said that it used to be manufactured at the same facility as Bozita, and that the Bozita was a similar formulation.

FWIW, I tried the Bozita chicken tetrapak for my civvie but she wouldn't eat it. Maybe try PMing Cassandra (@SweetAngel )? I think she feeds Bozita to her little ones and might be able to give you more of a guide on the Boz foods.

 

[phlika29]

Thanks Aine. I have gone ahead and ordered the ropocat sensitive gold rabbit.

@Elizabeth and Bertie have you looked at the Orijen food for the list? It is a dry food but I think it might be low carb. My mum uses it for her dog and I know you can get the cat food in the uk.

http://www.orijenpetfoods.co.uk/cat-food/dry-cat-food/cat-kitten/

 

[BJM]

Someone recently had a major problem with the Orijen Wysong Epigen 90 dry food and the cat was in bad shape.

The post is here.

 

[phlika29]

Oh dear. Someone on the forum?

Another new dried food that might be low carb

https://thrivepetfoods.com/thriver-premiumplus-chicken-complete-dry-food-for-cats-1500g-tube

 

[BJM]

Maybe use this online calculator to check candidate foods.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Another new dried food that might be low carb

https://thrivepetfoods.com/thriver-premiumplus-chicken-complete-dry-food-for-cats-1500g-tube

Thanks, Sarah,
Of all the UK dry cat foods that I've looked at that one actually is a contender. But I think the 'typical analysis' on the label is somehow wrong (either that or it contains something that isn't listed in the ingredients).
I contacted the manufacturer over a week ago to ask for clarification about the ingredients and the 'typical analysis' percentages. The reply I received contained a chunk of info about their foods but didn't answer my questions at all.... I've been contacting quite a few cat food companies lately to ask various questions, and rarely get a straightforward reply.

I felt that one of them must have thought I was some sort of industry spy, so I explained that I needed the information because I wanted to know if their food could be suitable for my diabetic cat. They then emailed me their info about food for diabetic cats which included that diabetics need a diet "high in carbohydrates..."
.