Food confusion

[Ruefrex]

Hi all,

My kitty has been good controlled for several years but he’s recently been diagnosed with early CKD and IBD. It’s impossible trying to find food that fits all of those conditions. I did the carb count for Merrick LID duck and it was fine but saw on the chart that it’s way too high. I’m so confused about dry matter vs as fed. Is anyone else feeding this? I need to find a food that’s single protein and I’m having a hard time. Can anyone help? Also trying to avoid chicken, beef and turkey. Thsnks!

 

[Sarah&Soph]

It’s crazy hard finding anything without chicken or beef! My IBD girl is on Instinct real rabbit formula and it is working well for her so far, not sure if it meets the requirements for CKD kitties though

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

I would suggest you take a look at Dr. Lisa's list and see if you can find one under 10% carbs for his diabetes, under 250 in phosphorus ( to help his kidneys) and of a protein he can have, I know it may be difficult but maybe you can find one, phosphorus is one thing that if the one that you find it is higher than recommended and his phosphorus levels are a bit high you can give him phosphorus binders .

When you talk about some figures calculated on a dry matter basis it means they took out all the water in the food formula and did the calculations only with the dry ingredients ( protein, ashes, etc) that calculation can be made with the guaranteed analysis or with the as fed values and allows you to compare between foods even with dry kibble.

When they talk about the as fed values they mean that is the content that the cat will usually get (as fed) not the guaranteed, kind of the average that the food has, it will probably be different from the guaranteed because if some brand says that the guaranteed analysis has for example minimum 10% of protein some cans will have 10 but others could have more you are only sure none has less than 10, and with the as fed you get an idea of an average of what he really is eating

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I would suggest you take a look at Dr. Lisa's list and see if you can find one under 10% carbs for his diabetes, under 250 in phosphorus ( to help his kidneys) and of a protein he can have, I know it may be difficult but maybe you can find one, phosphorus is one thing that if the one that you find it is higher than recommended and his phosphorus levels are a bit high you can give him phosphorus binders .

When you talk about some figures calculated on a dry matter basis it means they took out all the water in the food formula and did the calculations only with the dry ingredients ( protein, ashes, etc) that calculation can be made with the guaranteed analysis or with the as fed values and allows you to compare between foods even with dry kibble.

When they talk about the as fed values they mean that is the content that the cat will usually get (as fed) not the guaranteed, kind of the average that the food has, it will probably be different from the guaranteed because if some brand says that the guaranteed analysis has for example minimum 10% of protein some cans will have 10 but others could have more you are only sure none has less than 10, and with the as fed you get an idea of an average of what he really is eating

@Veronica & Babu-chiri Hi Veronica I just came across your post, I have a cat with diabetes, he's doing ok, then his brother has kidney disease. I know it's not advised that it's ok to feed dry food, He will not eat wet food at all ,I have tried everything. He's been eating prescription Hills K/D dry chicken flavor for yrs now and he's still in stage 2 and his blood work has been good , his creatinine levels even went down from 2.8 to 2.2. I looked up the phosphorus levels on the dry k/d and it said there is 0.51% on a dry matter basis. Do you think in your opinion that's ok Also found this
Guaranteed AnalysisCRUDE PROTEIN26.0% minCRUDE FAT20.0% minCRUDE FIBER4.0% maxPHOSPHORUS0.3.0% minPHOSPHORUS0.75% maxSODIUM0.4% maxTAURINE0.2% min.I really don't understand what all this means, I was wondering if you do and in your opinion is it that bad.
The Carbohydrate content on a dry matter basis for this formula is 40.5%. I assume that's pretty high, The sodium content for this recipe is 0.25% on a dry matter basis.
This product contains 1.05% Omega-3 Fatty Acids dry matter.
This food contains corn gluten meal.He drinks a lot of water all day and has not lost any muscle mass. Thanks in advance

 

[Ruefrex]

I would suggest you take a look at Dr. Lisa's list and see if you can find one under 10% carbs for his diabetes, under 250 in phosphorus ( to help his kidneys) and of a protein he can have, I know it may be difficult but maybe you can find one, phosphorus is one thing that if the one that you find it is higher than recommended and his phosphorus levels are a bit high you can give him phosphorus binders .

When you talk about some figures calculated on a dry matter basis it means they took out all the water in the food formula and did the calculations only with the dry ingredients ( protein, ashes, etc) that calculation can be made with the guaranteed analysis or with the as fed values and allows you to compare between foods even with dry kibble.

When they talk about the as fed values they mean that is the content that the cat will usually get (as fed) not the guaranteed, kind of the average that the food has, it will probably be different from the guaranteed because if some brand says that the guaranteed analysis has for example minimum 10% of protein some cans will have 10 but others could have more you are only sure none has less than 10, and with the as fed you get an idea of an average of what he really is eating

Thanks for explaining! I did look at the chart but here’s where I’m confused. I used the online calculator to calculate the carbs in the Merrick LID Duck, and got 5.56. But on Dr. Lisa’s chart, that flavor has 15% in carbs, which is 11% higher than any of the other three flavors. So I just don’t understand where that number is coming from. Everywhere I’ve looked I’ve seen that flavor listed around 5%. And of course, I just ordered a whole case of it so I’m afraid to use it!

 

[Ruefrex]

It’s crazy hard finding anything without chicken or beef! My IBD girl is on Instinct real rabbit formula and it is working well for her so far, not sure if it meets the requirements for CKD kitties though

It’s a little high in phosphorus but his levels were normal. If they’re up (I just got another blood test done) then I can use a binder with it. I’ll check that one out. Thanks!

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

Thanks for explaining! I did look at the chart but here’s where I’m confused. I used the online calculator to calculate the carbs in the Merrick LID Duck, and got 5.56. But on Dr. Lisa’s chart, that flavor has 15% in carbs, which is 11% higher than any of the other three flavors. So I just don’t understand where that number is coming from. Everywhere I’ve looked I’ve seen that flavor listed around 5%. And of course, I just ordered a whole case of it so I’m afraid to use it!

As Dr. Lisa mentions in her table she bases her calculation in as fed values that she got from the manufacturers, from what I've observed, not that I've made a big study or something is just the food where I live is not exactly the same than in the US so I had to contact manufacturers and do some research, some times when you use the as fed values you get bit higher numbers than if you use the guaranteed analysis, but there's also the possibility that the formula has changed from the time Dr. Lisa did the table, you could contact Merrick and ask for their current as fed values and then do the calculations again

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

@Veronica & Babu-chiri Hi Veronica I just came across your post, I have a cat with diabetes, he's doing ok, then his brother has kidney disease. I know it's not advised that it's ok to feed dry food, He will not eat wet food at all ,I have tried everything. He's been eating prescription Hills K/D dry chicken flavor for yrs now and he's still in stage 2 and his blood work has been good , his creatinine levels even went down from 2.8 to 2.2. I looked up the phosphorus levels on the dry k/d and it said there is 0.51% on a dry matter basis. Do you think in your opinion that's ok Also found this
Guaranteed AnalysisCRUDE PROTEIN26.0% minCRUDE FAT20.0% minCRUDE FIBER4.0% maxPHOSPHORUS0.3.0% minPHOSPHORUS0.75% maxSODIUM0.4% maxTAURINE0.2% min.I really don't understand what all this means, I was wondering if you do and in your opinion is it that bad.
The Carbohydrate content on a dry matter basis for this formula is 40.5%. I assume that's pretty high, The sodium content for this recipe is 0.25% on a dry matter basis.
This product contains 1.05% Omega-3 Fatty Acids dry matter.
This food contains corn gluten meal.He drinks a lot of water all day and has not lost any muscle mass. Thanks in advance

Hi, is really too bad that he does not accept wet food, hopefully someday he may change his idea.

Hills K/D as far as I know is ok for kitties with CKD, since is low in phosphorus and has the Omegas added but it is low in protein which on the long run can affect him specially as he ages, senior cats tend to need a bit more protein and of course is certainly not appropriate for a diabetic cat because it is very very high in carbohydrates, actually most prescription CKD foods are since manufacturers usually substitute protein with carbs (and that makes it not the best choice for any cat in my opinion), but if he does not accept any other food and as long as he's not diabetic you may just have to work around it because the most important thing is that he eats, you could give him some egg whites (cooked) added to his food if he accepts them to supplement with some good quality protein low phosphorus food ( I think in the US there's some egg white powder since he's so fond of dry but I really don't have information about it)

 

[Figaro's Liz]

Hi, have you looked at ZiwiPeak? I understand the venison flavor is good for single-protein kitties, it is quite low carb and I think I recall it is lower in phosphorous. It is $$$$ unfortunately.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi, is really too bad that he does not accept wet food, hopefully someday he may change his idea.

Hills K/D as far as I know is ok for kitties with CKD, since is low in phosphorus and has the Omegas added but it is low in protein which on the long run can affect him specially as he ages, senior cats tend to need a bit more protein and of course is certainly not appropriate for a diabetic cat because it is very very high in carbohydrates, actually most prescription CKD foods are since manufacturers usually substitute protein with carbs (and that makes it not the best choice for any cat in my opinion), but if he does not accept any other food and as long as he's not diabetic you may just have to work around it because the most important thing is that he eats, you could give him some egg whites (cooked) added to his food if he accepts them to supplement with some good quality protein low phosphorus food ( I think in the US there's some egg white powder since he's so fond of dry but I really don't have information about it)

Thanks for getting back to me, IlI' keep trying to get him to eat wet and I'll try the egg whites. Thank you

 

[Ruefrex]

Hi, have you looked at ZiwiPeak? I understand the venison flavor is good for single-protein kitties, it is quite low carb and I think I recall it is lower in phosphorous. It is $$$$ unfortunately.

I’ll look at that, thanks! And anyone who’s curious about the Merrick LID Duck, I emailed the company and it’s 1.50% carbs as-fed.