? Food Chart Opinions Please!

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Cherish Gallagher

Cherish Gallagher

Member Since 2017
So I want to do what is best for Angel and not do anything that is going to deter her getting better. I'm VERY conflicted when it comes to using my carb calculator on my phone and Dr. Lisa's food chart. Basically, the data is completely different. What do I trust? I mean the data isn't even close when it comes down to it. For example my carb calculator is saying a certain food is 4% but Dr. Lisa says it's 13%. My problem is that angel will not eat pate. Not even the chunky kind. She won't eat if I add water notta. So it's been a struggle finding gravy ones that are appropriate (so I thought). I found the fancy feast medleys with gravy which my carb calculator says almost all are under 10% but on the chart they are all OVER 10%. :(

What do I do? Im willing to start over and use the chart and try to find her something appropriate but does it really make that much of a difference? And should I trust the chart more than my carb calculator?

I feel like maybe it's been my fault she hasn't gotten much better because I'm not feeding her low carb food. According to the chart
 
Cherish, the differences you are seeing between Dr. P's chart and your carb calculator is probably that you are using the Guaranteed Ingredients vs. the As Fed or dry matter ingredients. Dr. P's list is the most accurate/up to date and has been compiled by contacting each of the manufacturers for specific info to get the most accurate carb values. While using the guaranteed ingredients to calculate carbs will in many cases give you a reasonable ballpark figure, as you have seen, there are times when for whatever reason, they can be way off.

If Angel hates pate, have you considered trying a raw or freeze dried diet. Freeze dried can be reconstituted with water to make it like a cross between wet and dry which would give Angel something to bite into.

My cat reluctantly eats wet food and only one kind so hopefully someone else will be able to make other suggestions to help you find something appropriate that Angel enjoys.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Cherish, the differences you are seeing between Dr. P's chart and your carb calculator is probably that you are using the Guaranteed Ingredients vs. the As Fed or dry matter ingredients. Dr. P's list is the most accurate/up to date and has been compiled by contacting each of the manufacturers for specific info to get the most accurate carb values. While using the guaranteed ingredients to calculate carbs will in many cases give you a reasonable ballpark figure, as you have seen, there are times when for whatever reason, they can be way off.

If Angel hates pate, have you considered trying a raw or freeze dried diet. Freeze dried can be reconstituted with water to make it like a cross between wet and dry which would give Angel something to bite into.

My cat reluctantly eats wet food and only one kind so hopefully someone else will be able to make other suggestions to help you find something appropriate that Angel enjoys.
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What are some of the names of the freeze dried food?
 
Oh don't cry, Cherish! :bighug:
I see a lot of people mention Primal Raw. As you might remember, Maury isn't a pate boy either. There were some issues with Stella and Chewy so I will tag @Djamila to chime in about them. Have you tried Fancy Feast Roasted Chicken / Roasted Turkey flavours?
 
Yong said:
Oh don't cry, Cherish! :bighug:
I see a lot of people mention Primal Raw. As you might remember, Maury isn't a pate boy either. There were some issues with Stella and Chewy so I will tag @Djamila to chime in about them. Have you tried Fancy Feast Roasted Chicken / Roasted Turkey flavours?
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Not yet. Gonna head to pet store after work and get some stuff. I sure hope what I've been feeding her hasn't messed up her progress.
 
The Ziwipeak air dried is around 11%, so too high for my boy, although some kitties do okay at that level.

Stella and Chewy's is definitely NOT okay. They only have one flavor that is under 10%, and some go as high as 23%, plus, they have some shady business practices, so I would steer clear of any of their products. I believe they are the reason Sam fell out of remission since it turned out I was feeding him the 23% carb flavor, thinking that since it was freeze dried raw, it must be okay.

Primal gives their nutrition information, including carbs, on their website. I wrote to the company and they confirmed that the info on the website is the as-fed numbers. Their freeze dried is the same recipe as their frozen, so as long as you reconstitute it with water, you can use the frozen information. As Linda suggested, you can do a little less water at the beginning to help Angel make the transition. Remember though that the freeze dried foods have even less water than kibble, so definitely not safe to feed them just dry. Kitties have enough trouble with hydration. So even if you can't fully hydrate it at first, make sure to at least add some water. I actually add way more water than it calls for as with the little bit recommended on the package, it's still pretty dry.

Sam doesn't like pate either, and he's been on a canned or raw diet for two years now. I entice him to eat it with fortiflora, crumbled up dried chicken, bonito flakes, and an ever changing variety of flavors. It's a bit of a struggle, and I wish with all my heart that I could just go back to putting down a bowl of kibble and letting him have at it. I keep reminding myself that I would also like to live on a diet of nothing but ice cream and chocolate chip cookies, but I don't because doing so would make me feel awful, and ultimately kill me, even though it would taste a whole lot better than vegetables. It's the same with him. So I do what I can to make it taste better for him, and keep experimenting with different meats. He seems to like trying new things, so switching it up often keeps him interested and more willing to eat. He is definitely doing better on more raw these days - he doesn't go on a hunger strike nearly as often as he was with the canned foods. But feeding is honestly the hardest part of this whole FD thing. So hang in there and know that there are a lot of us around here who are in this same boat with you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
@Djamila Interesting about the Stella & Chewy's as that was one of the first alternate foods I tried with my kibble addict a couple of years ago. I take it the ingredients have changed since then because it was one of the brands recommended back then. Making a mental note!

Since my little sugar decided wet food was not waste to be buried and actually edible, I feel like this got so much harder than it was before. She has one flavour of one brand she will eat, thankfully low carb, but it leaves me relying on honey or karo or resorting to kibble should we have a low BG episode requiring any major intervention. I also now have a pilfering problem that wasn't there when her Highness refused to eat the wet food!

I guess there are a number of us in the same boat. Diet is definitely one of the biggest challenges in this dance at the best of times and it just gets magnified in a multi cat household. Don't despair Cherish. Do the best you can with what Angel will eat. I had to feed my girl 15% kibble for 2 years while I continued to fight to get her to eat wet food because I don't have access to any lower carb kibble here in Canada.
 
I give Babu Nature's Variety Instinct, the chicken formula or limited ingredient turkey formula, both are under 10% in Dr. Lisa's list and they are not pathes, all my kitties like the chicken one better ,not sure about the price though since down here they are very different from the US.

I'm currently transitioning to home made food, but that is because of the recent CKD diagnose
 
Yes, I fed Sam S&C as the first successful non-kibble food too. Then he moved onto other things for awhile, but it was a few months after I started feeding S&C again that he relapsed, and when I wrote to the company for the numbers I was horrified. And don't get me started on how difficult it was to get them to send the numbers!

I don't know if they changed their recipe between the first time I fed it, and the second time, or if it was the change in flavor, but either way, it ended up having some serious consequences. I should have guessed something was up sooner when he started gaining weight. Cats on low-carb diets don't usually (ECID) gain weight for no reason, which should have tipped me off that it wasn't a low-carb diet. :oops:

They do have one flavor under the limit, but I don't remember which one it was anymore since I pretty much wrote off all of their food after that ordeal.

He's been eating Primal for awhile now and seems to be doing well on it. Their Turkey is both low carb, and has a good Phosphorus:Calcium ratio, so it's good for CKD kitties too.
 
Hi Cherish, here are a few from the food chart that are less than 10% carbs, not pate, & readily available at stores in case you want to try just one can first.
Nature's Recipe Grain Free in Broth (4 flavors) these are shredded & soupy, sold at Petco
Nature's Recipe Culinary Favorites Grilled--these are also shredded & soupy, sold at Petco
ProPlan True Nature Chicken & Turkey in Gravy--this one is chunky with gravy, sold at Petsmart
Weruva--various flavors--you have to watch the carbs, but all the ones I've tried so far are shredded. This brand is available at specialty pet food stores.
One thing I should note--these are all fairly low calorie, so you may need to feed more if your kitty needs to gain weight.
Good luck!
 
Djamila said:
Yes, I fed Sam S&C as the first successful non-kibble food too. Then he moved onto other things for awhile, but it was a few months after I started feeding S&C again that he relapsed, and when I wrote to the company for the numbers I was horrified. And don't get me started on how difficult it was to get them to send the numbers!

I don't know if they changed their recipe between the first time I fed it, and the second time, or if it was the change in flavor, but either way, it ended up having some serious consequences. I should have guessed something was up sooner when he started gaining weight. Cats on low-carb diets don't usually (ECID) gain weight for no reason, which should have tipped me off that it wasn't a low-carb diet. :oops:

They do have one flavor under the limit, but I don't remember which one it was anymore since I pretty much wrote off all of their food after that ordeal.

He's been eating Primal for awhile now and seems to be doing well on it. Their Turkey is both low carb, and has a good Phosphorus:Calcium ratio, so it's good for CKD kitties too.
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Going to check out primal tomorrow! Can you tell me how you use it?
 
Thanks so much everyone. I'm aware how hard on myself I am. I just can't help but fear I'm completely failing her in every way. But tomorrow I'm off to the pet stores. I have about $40 to spend on a bunch of different canned foods that will be ok for her. :)
 
Primal has both freeze dried and frozen. The freeze dried I usually put 2T water in the dish, then I crumble up a pellet into the water. I don't stir it - I just put it out that way. He likes the dryer texture, but since it's sitting on the water, he ends up getting a lot of water too. After Sam eats the first part (I leave it out for him to finish whenever he wants), I usually end up adding a little more water to whatever is left.

The frozen I either put out a chunk, wait about twenty minutes, and then smash it down for them (they can just eat bites off the chunk, but they don't like it that way). Or sometimes I'll take a big knife, cut up the chunk into smaller pieces while it's still frozen, and put the little pieces into a container in the freezer. Then I can just pour out some into the bowl and run out the door.

Either version, I leave out for them to graze when they feel like it, but I don't live in a warm climate, so that helps.

My kitties are both around 11-12 pounds, and they eat four chunks/day each, if that's all I'm feeding them. Plus too many treats. ;)
 
Djamila said:
Primal has both freeze dried and frozen. The freeze dried I usually put 2T water in the dish, then I crumble up a pellet into the water. I don't stir it - I just put it out that way. He likes the dryer texture, but since it's sitting on the water, he ends up getting a lot of water too. After Sam eats the first part (I leave it out for him to finish whenever he wants), I usually end up adding a little more water to whatever is left.

The frozen I either put out a chunk, wait about twenty minutes, and then smash it down for them (they can just eat bites off the chunk, but they don't like it that way). Or sometimes I'll take a big knife, cut up the chunk into smaller pieces while it's still frozen, and put the little pieces into a container in the freezer. Then I can just pour out some into the bowl and run out the door.

Either version, I leave out for them to graze when they feel like it, but I don't live in a warm climate, so that helps.

My kitties are both around 11-12 pounds, and they eat four chunks/day each, if that's all I'm feeding them. Plus too many treats. ;)
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What flavor would you suggest? My pet store has freeze dried nuggets.
 
Hey guys, I don't want to make a whole new post to ask this question so hopefully it will be seen.

For the first 6 months of Angels diagnosis we were using a carb calculator and feeding her based on that (not Dr. Lisa's chart). We found out a few weeks ago that those carb calculators aren't reliable and started using Dr Lisa's food chart. The numbers on there and the carb calculator we use are drastically different. We thought all along we were feeding her under 10% when most of them listed on the chart were like 15%.

Anyways, the issue is Angel will not eat pate and the ONLY wet food she seems to eat is the pro plan Nature Chicken & turkey with gravy, beef & liver with gravy and then the regular Pro Plan Beef with carrots in gravy. The regular pro plan is what we mainly fed her (ones in gravy and she loved them all)

My question is... the only acceptable pro plan with gravy is the beef and carrots with gravy at 2% on the chart. My carb calculator lists it at 17%. Is dr. Lisa's chart 100% accurate ? It's just weird that that's the only gravy one acceptable and it's SO low carb. Also by looking at Angels SS, on the days we fed her that type of food she seemed to stay higher the rest of the day (for the most part)

This is such a struggle!!! Should I just stop worrying and feed her based on the chart or should I be concerned??
 
Cherish, I'm late to this party, and I can't tell you about the level of the list, but as Dr. Lisa is an actual vet, I trust it more than anything else. We do the pates (sorry you're having difficulty on the pates) and I can see a difference in the pates actually having a lowering effect on Fabby's glucose. (I mention this so perhaps it's something you can watch for on a curve after you find a food that you feel is right.)

I have found a couple Fancy Feasts that are not pates that are under 6 carbs on Dr. Lisa's list. There was one called White Meat Chicken Primavera Pate that is not like a chunk of cat food block. It's shredded in a white gravy with greens and veggies in it. The White Meat Chicken Florentine Pate was the same. With Friskies there's a Flaked Tuna, it doesn't have a gravy, but it is shredded instead of the Pate consistency. (I didn't try the one with Flaked Tuna and egg, as Fabby won't eat any of the shredded ones, but that should be another Flaked that might be an option.)

The Fortiflakes appetite helper might be good to see if it will help. (I don't have experience with this, but I do see it a lot on these boards.)

Another thing that might help, can you use the kind Angel likes and slowly over time mix a little Pate, and then add more and more a little bit at a time until Angel is eventually only eating Pate? I know kitties that are very resistant from switching from dry to wet are transisitioned slowly like that.
 
AlphaCat said:
Cherish, I'm late to this party, and I can't tell you about the level of the list, but as Dr. Lisa is an actual vet, I trust it more than anything else. We do the pates (sorry you're having difficulty on the pates) and I can see a difference in the pates actually having a lowering effect on Fabby's glucose. (I mention this so perhaps it's something you can watch for on a curve after you find a food that you feel is right.)

I have found a couple Fancy Feasts that are not pates that are under 6 carbs on Dr. Lisa's list. There was one called White Meat Chicken Primavera Pate that is not like a chunk of cat food block. It's shredded in a white gravy with greens and veggies in it. The White Meat Chicken Florentine Pate was the same. With Friskies there's a Flaked Tuna, it doesn't have a gravy, but it is shredded instead of the Pate consistency. (I didn't try the one with Flaked Tuna and egg, as Fabby won't eat any of the shredded ones, but that should be another Flaked that might be an option.)

The Fortiflakes appetite helper might be good to see if it will help. (I don't have experience with this, but I do see it a lot on these boards.)

Another thing that might help, can you use the kind Angel likes and slowly over time mix a little Pate, and then add more and more a little bit at a time until Angel is eventually only eating Pate? I know kitties that are very resistant from switching from dry to wet are transisitioned slowly like that.
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I don't think you're talking about the fancy feast pates but the ones in gravy and sauce which are over 10%. The ones you mentioned are definitely pate with chunks of veggies in the middle. Not shredded at all.
 
If you're talking about these, they are both super high in carbs on dr Lisa's list. And these are what we used to feed when we thought they were low.
 

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Alpha is talking about the Purely naturals :). They're in broth and non-pate:
61zc7WQl1RL._AC_UL320_SR312,320_.jpg


As you, Cherish, know, my boy isn't a big pate eater either :rolleyes: but he seems to like the FF Roasted Chicken and Roasted Turkey flavours :). There are 2 ProPlan True Nature's that I keep looking for but can't find at Petco that are supposedly "in gravy" and low carb. Hmm looks like PetSmart might have them though :bookworm:
 
Yong said:
Alpha is talking about the Purely naturals :). They're in broth and non-pate:
61zc7WQl1RL._AC_UL320_SR312,320_.jpg


As you, Cherish, know, my boy isn't a big pate eater either :rolleyes: but he seems to like the FF Roasted Chicken and Roasted Turkey flavours :). There are 2 ProPlan True Nature's that I keep looking for but can't find at Petco that are supposedly "in gravy" and low carb. Hmm looks like PetSmart might have them though :bookworm:
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Oh!! That makes sense! :) we tried those And she doesn't like them. I have 2 of the true nature flavors right now. Going to try petco soon for the other 3. :)
 
Max liked Stella & Chewy's freeze dried. My kittens like Primal fd and frozen but they are young and love to eat. Max also liked Feline Natural freeze dried but tge formula was changed and I never bought the new one. I used the lamb though. It's sort of trial and error with the older ones. Good luck.
 
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