flaming high #'s question

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ok, i'm doing my best to keep tom below the 500-600's and he spends the the better part of the day 300's with perchance a dip into blue.
we are going to vet hopefully today.
in meantime he is ravenously hungry like when he was first dx'd. do i feed this? he is a tad fluffly. i think i should feed as it is the same as when we just started out and he's not getting his food absorbed right?
 
Hi, I am replying because of the 911 icon, but I am not an expert. Do I understand correctly - you want to know if you can feed your cat because he is hungry? Typically you feed when they are hungry - unless it is near shot time or he is supposed to be fasting? I don't know what kind of insulin Tom is on, I am hoping someone with expertise can help you.
 
If his numbers are that high I would think you would feed like you were starting all over, since those numbers are those of an unregulated diabetic, so if he was my kitty I would be feeding everything he wanted to eat.

Mel
 
tom is a hoover so will generally eat anything i put down...this is different, he is constantly at his bowl wanting more. i am trying to find a vet to prescribe me lev as he is currently on pz and i cannot control numbers as of last few months. he likely has an infection. vet visit is only pending until i can find a vet that scripts lev.
i guess i should feed him all he wants?
 
I don't if it is what you should do...but personally it is what I would do. But then again my bunch are all grazers so if someone is really demanding they get fed. But trying to think logically and you know Tom the best, I would think those numbers are saying little to no benefit from his insulin so he is not processing food correctly. Thus needs to eat more.

Mel
 
If it were my cat I would.. his body is literally starving because of the unregulated Diabetes. (((Tom))) I pray you can find a vet soon to write the RX you need. What area are you in?
 
I would go ahead and feed him, Lori, but in small amounts so he doesn't vomit. Does sound like an infection of some sort. I saw you were looking for a vet; did you find someone you think will work?
 
i've resorted to emailing all kinds of information to them and basically begging. on the phone with one now to see if they received my ss and levemir info.
 
cindy's vet is a bit far. only in that i drive an 88 honda. if i were going without tom i could handle a breakdown or whatever but not with tom on board. car does drive well and is well maintained but i'll never forget the day i brought him locally for his diabetes test it was a super hot august day and we broke down not a mile from home. with tom so sick at that point i did'nt even care what happened to the car i just had to get tom home immediatly. he was hot and dehydrated already from untreated dire beasties.
 
i have called the 4 clinics in this town.. i am waiting on pins and needles as i just sent them emails of ss and lev info. i need a xanex...just kidding. seriously, i hate being smarter than the vet...so sucks. one vet asking me if tom was just not eatting the right food after i told him about low carb ff and raw rabbit, suggesting instead of lev i should try some of his hills diabetic diet. aaaarrrrrgggg.
they all want to see him, just put him on pz or...horrors...humulin. i am getting NO duration right now.
 
Are there any FDMB members nearby using Lev that could sell you a cartridge?

I bought my first 5-pack from Canada before they required a prescription -- then after showing months worth of data, my vet was finally willing to prescribe Levemir for Tiggy (Canada law changed 1/1/2010 to require a prescription for US customers/orders)

I have an extra cartridge right now, but hopefully there is someone closer than Michigan.
 
up the toll road is about 30 miles but i have to admit we fix a lot of cars that that toll road kills that's for sure. the hill on this end is humongous and is hard on cars. the only positive now is that it's so cold which is easier on the cars coming up that hill than when it's 90 outside

if you took the 55 north to the 91 east it would make it about 36-37 miles according to google?
 
Phoebe had a great idea, geez.. I should have thought of that.. another member. Anyway.. dropping thru to check on Tom & you.. did you find a script for him & how is his appetite?
 
thanks for checking on us. appetite ravenous like a newly dix'd. no definet word yet on vet...waiting with phone in my lap.
have an apt. at 4:30 with someone who already said no...just in case. i want tom seen today becuase, he is sick and i can no longer pretend he is ok.
 
Well, would it help to think that what you really need is some blood work, maybe a urinalysis to see if he is sick? And no matter what they say about the insulin or the food, they won't be following you home.....Then you can continue to work on getting the Levemir?
 
Just checking in on you and Tom Tom and sending ((((((Huggles to you both))))))

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
When you interview or contact them, you might phrase it as

"I'm looking for a vet who will work with me as a partner in my cat's care"
and
"I have obtained up to date veterinary literature which I can provide the vet to assist her/him in being current in the treatment of my cat's diabetes"
and
"I have kept meticulous records of my cat's response to insulin and diet"

I wouldn't send them the spreadsheet data up front (it just gets you the knee jerk response), but rather look for the openess to partnering and collaborating in the treatment.
 
Is your insulin still good?

I hope there's nothing serious with Tom, and I hope that you can find a vet that you like quickly.
 
ok i've chosen to go back to the vet who originally dx'd tom.
my understanding is she will likely not prescribe lev. but i can approach that when i'm there.
i do want a blood panel and urinalyisis. i hope that antibiotics will be the answer to the rising numbers.
the headache of talking to vet tech's or receptionists about the possibility of a lev. script has become too much.
they all seem in the same camp.
one who was open to the idea won't be back in his office until next monday and the other vet's in his office 'can not' prescribe lev.
i need to go to vet sooner than that.
so 4:30 is our appointment.
please keep whatever you have crossed for us...and tell your kitties to also.
tom is sitting in the sun on the deck right now...he finally has filled himself after eatting ALL DAY.
hopeing and praying that i can be a likeable enough person that dr. davis will try to work with me...if not than that's just the way it is and we'll just move on with our lives from there.
my biggest fear has for a long time been looking at tom and knowing that i don't have the money to do whatever it takes to make him well.
the only thing left to drop is my health insurance...which is over 500 a month with a 3000 deductable. i know. right?
maybe i should just dump that bill. oh how i want to.
 
Fingers and paws crossed here....Got the kitties sending Tom tons of purrs, head butts and whisker kisses to get better really soon, and be nice to the vetty bean so they can find out what is wrong with Mister Handsome.

Lori I know just what you mean about having money get in the way of what we want to do for our babies..((((Hugs))))

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang.
 
Everything cross for you and Tom, hon. Bud's laying here with paws crossed too.

Please let us know how it went, ASAP.
 
Hi, are you home yet? I know you want lev, if you end up with Lantus I do have a coupon which would make it only $25 for the first month. Although I love Lantus, I am not promoting it to you because I am not familiar with your situation - I am just letting you know about the coupon. Anyway... most importantly.. thinking of you & Tom.. are you home from the vet yet? :YMHUG: I have a good feeling this is all going to work out.
 
We are home and needed a few hours to de=compress. We got the Lev script. We got antibiotics. We hated the Vet and the whole clinic...don't even get me started ok. It was a nightmare. We will get blood results tomorow and they could not poke him enough to find his bladder so no urinalysis. They wanted me to leave him over night..I simply cannot do that.
I can try to collect urine here but they did'nt even tell me the time lapse between collection and when they need it or if i should store it cold or room temp.
His heart rate they said was 150, I asked is that in range, Vet shrugged 'yeah' is it?
tom then poo'd and pee'd in his carrier, they offered no napkins or bag for his wet towel.
Idiots.
They refused to let me go in with him for the blood draw and the urine draw. They told me I could just go soemwhere else. Tom was in my arms with his head buried in my chest. They just took him away. Then told me I made the staff uncomfortable. I nearly cried as I cleaned up his mess and search for a bag for his towel.
A holes.

I'm sorry but this is why we HATE going to the vet.. we have never found one we liked. We never want to go again.
Is it me?
Do I expect to much for them to be caring and gentle. Sensitive to Tom's need for me to be with him, offer paper towels to let me clean up his mess?
uggg.
Lori and an alcohol soaked Tom who is still damp after I cleaned that terrible alcohol smell off him.
 
Sounds like they could use some lessons in compassion. BUT you got insulin and antibiotics. So it wasn't a total bust, right?

Glad you are both home and can cuddle up together. Remember that breathing thing, Lori. Things could be worse?
 
So sorry the vet trip was such a nightmare, but hey at least you got the tests done, got your lev script and antibotics and everyone survived, so not a total waste of a day.

Now remember to breathe, go take a hot bubble bath and relax. You and Tom deserve a good cuddle after today.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
I know Sue. I am blessed beyond measure. DCIN offered the $ for Tom's vet visit. It's hard for me to accept it but Venita insisted I use it for Tom as she knew he needed it.
And altho my house flooded hey I have a house to flood right?
And Tom is ok, I just pilled him for the first time and like everything else in the world he lets me do to him he let me pry open his mouth and push pill in and massage throat. Gave him exta wabbit for his good behavior today.
It was sadwhen he nuzzled his head into my chest and they took him away. But he went like a trooper without crying.
 
but what about the urinalysis? we need it, we payed for it, we did'nt get it.
is it really hard to find the bladder and pull it out...he pee'd right after they tried.
 
wait a sec. if they didn't get urine to do the test on, then you shouldn't pay for it. unless they're counting on you bringing them a sample?

did they look at his mouth at all? i hope the antibiotics work some magic for sure

fwiw i don't think we need to be present for blood & urine draws or for that matter, that back room stuff. i know mine is not a popular opinion on that though, especially if one is not familiar or comfortable with the vet but some think their presence will comfort the cat but in my experience, the cat just plain doesn't want to be there and they can freak at any moment, whether the owner is there or not and the vet has to minimize the risks and their liability. one of my worst injuries in my years of owning dozens and dozens of cats was actually from one of my cats at the vet's office. stupid me thought my cat would behave better for me and sure enough, when i went to help, i got the worst cat bite ever. the only one i've ever had that i actually thought i was going to need a doctor for. and this was even after the staff jumped in and got me betadyne and had me do some serious cleaning to it within seconds.
 
well urinalysis is part of what they call a senior blood panel...it's included in the price so in essence it was paid for.
and i understand about the policy as pointed out with back room proceedures. i was not really thinking about all of that stuff but just me and tom and i KNOW is docile and feels much more comfortable with me in the room. cindy i suppose if someone took the time to kindly explain what you just said i may have felt less violated. it was just not explained but either give up the cat or go somewhere else. soooo much is in the attitude. kwim?
anyone know what the good range of heart beat is...tom was 150 and they said that for a 'fat' cat that is ok. i really did'nt think tom was fat. but now i know he needs to lose a pound, ok, maybe 2.
 
oh and yes they looked in his mouth and pulled off two big chunks of plaque the size of a tooth each. wow :shock: i think there was more but she said that was all she could reach with her nails.. all the times i looked and i thought those werehis teeth! how embarrassing. she never mentioned a dental tho. i think it went without saying if you know what i mean.
 
cindy i just wrote you a whole long pm and poof it dissapeared...now i'm done! there was sometnhing about check out the first responder thread on comm. where i wrote about you for our first day and our hypo alert night :o :lol:
 
I'm so sorry you and Tom had such a horrible experience today.

I hope you both are settled down and all snuggled up together.

Doesn't sound like the most compasionate office. Wish you could find better.

Thoughts are with you and sweet Tom.
 
I am friends with my vet and I love the staff at the clinic. She knows I have a lot of animal experience but I NEVER am allowed to go in the back. It is for the pet's sake and the staff's safety and my safety. WIsh it were different but they know best.

Sounds like a brutal experience but I would imagine that you are also feeling sensitive (understandably) and stressed. Not saying that justifies their behaviour though.

Do not pay for the urinalysis. And yes, sometimes it can be hard to find the bladder sometimes, not sure why.

Jen
 
Like Jen, I'm friends with my vet and the staff, they know I can help with blood draws and things but they still take my cats into the back without me. I used to be upset by that, but I'm okay with it now.

I hope the ABs and the new insulin help.
 
Think positive, Lori. Lev and AB's will help Tom so much. Though they didn't seem to have much "bedside manner" or customer service, they treated Tom and provided you with what Tom so desperately needs. Don't forget to take them the urine sample, even if it isn't a clean draw. The results may give you some clue to his high BG numbers.
 
I am so sorry you and poor Tom had to go through that. Love my vets and I went to school with one of them in the office, now they will let me go in the back with my animals but only because I have signed a waiver saying that I understand the risks and am willing to risk it. And because they know that I'm in school to be a Vet Tech and have been trained in restraint techniques.

Although I usually don't with the cats, they are freaked out enough and mom being there with all my emotions just isn't helping them any. Now with the Drooler I do go back with him, but only because he has such an abusive history that he is only controllable by myself or DH. He is hugely phobic of men in general and one in a white coat just makes him that much worse. He is fine with anyone as long as I have his head, but will try to eat people if they try to take him from me. On the few times that I have had to let them take him from me, I am the one that puts on his muzzle.

But they should have had at least explained why you couldn't go back with him. Hopefully now that the absolute crisis is past you and Tom can spend some time searching for a vet that will be better for you both. Or move to Hastings Nebr and I'll set you up with a fantastic vet clinic, of course this town would bore you to tears..lol

Mel. Max & The Fur Gang
 
Good morning, thinking of you both today - sorry to hear about the Vet experience, but as others pointed out - success scored - RX written! Prayers above equal blessings down & I am keeping you & Tom in mine :YMHUG: wishing you both a wonderful Wednesday!
 
Sure doesn't sound like the best clinic but at least you got the meds, bloodwork and Lev. Now you can search for a good vet without the pressure. Cindy's vet sounds like a plan to me and 30+ miles isn't that far in CA...I have to drive that far for a major store or mall. Obviously there is no one close that you like so you are going to have to drive somewhere. The main thing is good care for Tom with a vet you can work with and trust.

FWIW - I never go in the back when they do the blood draw, although I'm sure they wouldn't mind, but it would freak me out and I would just upset them more. I've helped with other peoples animals on occasion but I can't watch them even give mine an injection.

The vet in Signal Hill I would avoid at all costs ... I will PM you the name if you want it. He is the one who was going to put Reagan down and I've hear some other horror stories.

Sending continued good thoughts and prayers.......
 
thanks everyone for all your support. i am so happy to have the script and the ab's...tom's a rascal, this morning i was POSITIVE he swallowed it and i immediatley served breffis and then saw pill on the floor :o , he got pulled away from breffis and swallowed that pill! (i think :lol: )

the 30 miles to cindy's vet...i think it's more like maybe 50, but it's my car that worries me. i am more than willing to drive there without tom on board as i have in the past when i went to see cindy at work. but the idea of breaking down with tom on board is really too much. it had happened once before only a mile from home the day he was to be dx'd on a hot august day (one mile straight uphill that is). even 1 mile seemed terrible to be with tom hot and i'm unable to carry him home. our carrier is cardboard and it never fails he pee's in it...poops too. this is our 3rd cardboard carrier. time for a real one? yep. these days every time i turn around there is a payment of some sort that i am strapped but have to pay...licence renewal, roof, car needed an axle boot and brakes, more medical bills, (i pay them 20 bucks a month!) and that damn health insurance bill which has tripled in 3 years! sorry to unload, i make it a rule not to talk about my finances but if i don't tell you, you may think i'm lazy about driving or ignoring my cat's health. he does get that raw rabbit no matter what :mrgreen:
i am learning how to wash and style wigs in an attempt to add another feature to my business. i have a friend in that business who is teaching me. i have in the past sent clients who owned wigs to the place down the street...now maybe i can handle them.

love you guys, and thanks for checking on tom and I.
 
Sorry you and Tom had a torturous vet visit -- glad you got the meds/scripts.

If the AB is clavamox, it crushes up to powder nicely and I mix it with a small amount of food (teaspoon) and give that first -- after that food is eaten, I give the rest of the food.

With my cats / my vet -- the "taking in back" depends on the cat and the event (e.g. x-ray and clippers for grooming are only in back)
Mauser gets taken in back because they can handle him and he usually gets a "sanitary trim" aka butt haircut. Luci gets taken in back - she is very timid and would huddle there and try to be invisible.

Buster -- Norton -- Tiggy --- I get (got) to hold them during blood draws.

Buster used to have to be gassed because they couldn't handle him. After some sessions with Dawn Allen, we have arrived at a compromise and he no longer has to be gassed. (blood drawn from hind leg while I hold the front, pointy end)

Norton -- he was hypersensitive in his hind legs from the brain tumor (confirmed by neurologist), and his throat had excess tissue from acromegaly and he panicked when held on his back or side, so his blood draws were from the front leg. He was very strong and slippery, so I got to hold him for most vet "events".

Tiggy has been pretty healthy *anti-jinx* -- they let me rub his head / distract while they draw blood from hind leg.
 
I don't understand why vets need to take an animal "to the back" to draw blood or urine [without ultrasound guided]. I've had many vets have no problem doing either in front of me in the exam room. As a note though they are making hand held ultrasounds now http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... h-troubles which would eliminate even having to remove an animal from the exam room for things like a ultrasound guided urine draw.

I've had a couple vets do the "disappearing act" - usually at Universities and specialist groups that are filled with University affiliated vets.

FWIW I found a vet local here that is WONDERFUL about having owners "in the back" and actively request my presence in the back on many occasions. This was not the perfect vet [are there any?] but this action alone really made an impression on me and I valued him immensely because of this.

I'm suspicious that the "disappearing act" is a function of a high and mighty university style mindset. I wonder if universities do this to give their students a chance to have a go at animals without the owners watching them flail. I personally find the "disappearing act" very upsetting too.
 
Lori,

It's not the vet's rule on including the urinalysis as part of the senior blood panel. That's the lab. Get the urine to the vet within the timeline (usually about 2 weeks). If nothing else, you will get a urine specific gravity (USG), which tells you where Tom is on the way to kidney disease, a problem that affects most older cats. Ennis has great blood work when it comes to kidney values, but because of his low USG, he is in early kidney disease. You paid for it; get the info.

I am glad you were able to get Tom to a vet, and able to get a script for the Levemir. I put the Lev into the mail today and you should have it in time for his PM shot tomorrow.
 
Hi, Lori & Tom.. looks like Venita & Gator have you covered too. Has Tom started with Lev yet? I looked at your spreadsheet but wasnt sure. How is his appetite & how is he?
 
Tom has a great appetite. too great. he's a fatty i'm told by the vet and needs to lose 3 lbs. but i don't think she's taking into consideration his mass of shoulder muscle.
i am thinking of holding off shooting lev which may need a day or so to build a shed as tom wakes up 500-600 in the amps.
if after a few days of ab's his numbers get a little smaller than i will start. i would like advice from Venita on that.
i am stalking him for a pee sample, i have sterilized all the material i need to get a good pee into a vial. he pee's so often it should'nt take too long. thing is i'd rather get a sample right before i bring it in and not at night as i think i can lose alot of data if it sits too long.
 
Lori, I agree that waiting on the Lev might be a good idea. Lev is not as good as PZI at pulling down high numbers (I'm not as familiar with ProZinc so I can't speak for how it functions on high numbers). I love Lev and I wouldn't necessarily wait toooo long, but if you think you can get the numbers down a bit with the ProZinc before starting Lev then that is not a bad idea. Good luck! I hope the AB does the trick and Tom is back to himself in no time.
 
lori and tom said:
i am thinking of holding off shooting lev which may need a day or so to build a shed as tom wakes up 500-600 in the amps.
if after a few days of ab's his numbers get a little smaller than i will start.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen that much "ramp up" time for Levemir. If I had a choice between new Levemir and expired PZI, I would go with the new Levemir. An infection plus expired insulin is a not a place I would choose to keep my cat long.
 
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