First time curve

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Karen nayler

Karen nayler

Member Since 2016
Hiya

First time posting. My cat was diagnosed about 4 weeks ago, the vet had been doing curves every week, which were crippling me financially, so I managed to persuade her to let me do my own testing and I came up with the following:

6am - food 35g m/d wet food
Test - 11.0 mmol/L
Gave 3.5 Lantus insulin

9am - 8.4 mmol/L

12pm - 6.3 mmol/L
Gave 12g of m/d dry food

3pm - 7.4 mmol/L

6pm - Food 35g m/d wet food
Test - 5.9mmol/L
Gave 3.5 Lantus insulin

7pm - test 7.4mmol/L (Because it was low before)

when my vet did it she said she kept getting in the 20s, but the highest we've got was 11.

He's been good all day, actually liked getting the test (I think it was more the cuddles that attracted him). I noticed about 12 he wasn't quite so "bright" but after food he picked up and has spent most of today chasing my other cat and following me round the garden.
I was told to feed him wet and dry food, but I noticed he was drinking more when he had the dry/wet mixed, so I've stopped that and now he's not drinking so much.

What's your opinion? It's still early days, according to the vet, so please be gentle!
 
Hello and welcome - the experienced lantus users will be along in a bit but in the meantime it would be helpful if you could answer the following questions.

What dose of insulin was he started on - and was that 4 weeks ago?
What increases have been made since then and when?
What meter are you using?
What is the wet and dry food you have been feeding him?
What changes have you made to his food and when?

What I would say is that the readings are often higher at the vet so it is better to make dosing decisions based on home readings as you do get a clearer picture of his insulin needs. The readings may also be a little different if you are using a human meter and not a pet meter - don't worry too much about that because if we know what meter you are using it makes it easier to interpret the numbers. Can you do more readings this evening? I assume you have been doing his curve today.
 
Congrarulations on your first home curve! :) I'm so glad he is being a good sport about the testing, the cuddles definately help :cat: I dont have any experience with lantus either, but just wanted to chime in and say good job :)
 
What dose of insulin was he started on - and was that 4 weeks ago? He was on 2 units. Then a week later his numbers had halved, so they halved the dose, then the following week they had gone up, so they said 2.5, then last week she said still high and increased it to 3.5.
What increases have been made since then and when?
What meter are you using? Alphatrak 2 - wanted to get the same one the vet was using.
What is the wet and dry food you have been feeding him? Vet put him on Hills m/d half a can a day and 25g dry food.
What changes have you made to his food and when? He has changed to the m/d, I give him quarter of a can in the morning, with some dry food, then the same in the evening. He's always been an overwater, so I can't let him graze all day.

About 5 years ago he went missing for a year, I think he came back with PTSD as he gets easily stressed and can work himself up if his routine changes.
 
One more question - can you do a 9pm test (are you in the UK by any chance), as it would be useful to see a +6 number when he was at 5.9 pre pm insulin. He dropped from 11 to 6.3 earlier today so a similar drop this evening may take him too low for comfort and it would be reassuring to check.

ETA - 9pm makes it a +3 test, midnight is +6
 
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Karen welcome and congratulations on starting home testing. Not only will it be cheaper for you it will make treating the diabetes safer,

Considering that the vet put you on M/D food which is higher in carbs than a diabetic kitty should have, the numbers with an AlphaTrak meter are very good.

The higher numbers at the vets office were quite possibly due to stress...some kitties can give much higher numbers when stressed out.

How often are you able to test on a daily basis? You should always do a preshot test and with Lantus the nadir (lowest number) typically is around +5-6 hours after the shot. I am seeing a kitty who could quite possibly end up on a low dose or even remission if the dry food where removed from the diet and you fed a low carb wet food (under 10% carbs). HOWEVER DO NOT CHANGE THE DIET UNLESS YOU ARE ABLE TO TEST REGULARLY EACH DAY. Some kitties have been able to come off insulin all together just with a change to an all wet low carb diet. From what I can find the M/D dry is 18% carb and the M/D wet is 12% both of which are too high for a diabetic kitty.

If you can home test on a regular basis it would be a good idea to start a spreadsheet. Instructions are here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

and you would want to use this template:
https://drive.google.com/previewtemplate?id=1JQ136YHkxNhhku9AML_OKGHkrg3Ixe27BWAdWONlnP0&mode=public


since you test in mmol/l. It has one tab that you can enter mmol/l and it automatically converts to US numbers on another tab. Most of the people here use the US number system. I am in Canada and use an Alpha Trak meter so I can totally follow you curve readings.

The PM pre shot of 5.9 (106 US) is on the lower side for someone just starting to home test. The +1 hour after test of 7.4 (133US) will be higher because of the food eaten an hour before. I would definitely suggest getting another test at +2 hous after shot and posting back. That is usually when the Lantus starts "kicking in" and the numbers can start to drop. I would also definitely plan on getting a test at +3 and +4 hours after shot, since the preshot number you got is actually in the normal range and you do not want your kitty to drop too low.



CONTINUE FEEDING THE SAME FOOD THE SAME WAY YOU HAVE BEEN FOR NOW


Please post back with the next test results. I am concerned with a low preshot number that he may go too low
 
Just did a 9pm test, 6.5.

In terms of numbers, what is "good"?

I'm thinking of stopping the dry food, as he was drinking lots to now he's mainly on wet, he doesn't seem to be drinking so much.

I work full time, so can only test in the morning and then after work.

Thanks for your comments, I was worried that my numbers weren't in the same range as the vet and that there was a problem.
 
Karen nayler said:
Just did a 9pm test, 6.5.

In terms of numbers, what is "good"?
Click to expand...


On an Alpha Trak meter numbers between 4-8 are considered normal. This would include tests without food and after eating,

The 9Pm test you did would be called +3 since it is 3 hours after the shot. That is how everyone here understands it since we are all in different time zones. As you can see the Lantus is starting to work at this point. Usually the nadir or lowest number will happen around +6 hours after the shot but that can vary with each kitty. I would suggest getting another test at +4..10PM your time and then posting back. As I said my feelings are that with a proper diet your kitty will end up being on less insulin and possibly could end up in remission. BUT as I already stated you SHOULD NOT change the diet at this time since it could possibly drop the numbers by as much as 4 or 5 mmol/l (100 US). Once you have more data the dose could be changed and then a gradual diet switch done.

For members just starting with a diabetic cat.."newbies" :)...we would not even have suggested shooting the preshot numbers that you had or would have suggested a dose decrease. But let's see how your kitty does for now.
 
Right now the numbers are still in a safe zone but since the dose was decided by the higher numbers at the vets this link has good information on how to treat a hypo. Hypos happen when the insulin dose is too high. You should always have a hypo kit on hand:

Lots of test strips
High carb wet food such as Friskies or Fancy Feast WITH gravy
Syrup...karo, honey, pancake, maple syrup etc

If your kitty ever starts getting too low then people here can help you with bringing the numbers up unless they are VERY low in which case we would suggest going to an ER vet. Don;t be scared that I am giving this information...it is something all petparents of diabetic kitties need to know and be aware of ahead of time...just in case.... Here is the link:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
 
Karen nayler said:
I'm thinking of stopping the dry food, as he was drinking lots to now he's mainly on wet, he doesn't seem to be drinking so much.
Click to expand...


DO NOT STOP THE DRY FOOD UNTIL THE INSULIN DOSE HAS BEEN ADJUSTED As I stated before removing dry food can bring the numbers down quite a bit and if you are not home to test, we would worry about the numbers going too low.


The drinking and peeing should have settled down a lot since your kitty is in good numbers.
 
Karen did your kitty have any sort of infection at the time he was diagnosed with diabetes?? Or have you had a dental cleaning or other dental work down since the diagnosis. An infection or being in need of a dental can cause numbers to be higher.

Or at any time previously did your kitty have any steroids for any other ailment? These can also cause numbers to be higher and the numbers will drop once the steroid is stopped.

What sort of food did you have him on before changing to M/D?
 
Hiya

Am actually feeling relieved by what you've said. Have emailed the vet the numbers.

if I'm still awake, I'll do a 10pm (+4) test and will let you know.
I was thinking of doing another curve on Saturday. I can always do +2 tests after the evening shot.

Will not change the food. I'm hoping his numbers mean we can control via diet eventually. have got stuff in case he has a hypo.
 
just before he was diagnosed I noticed he was drinking lots and seemed to have lost weight, he'd also stopped eating, which for him was very odd. When we went to the vets, she said his temp was slightly raised then she did a dip test and said his levels were up.

He hadn't been on anything prior to that.

What sort of food did you have him on before changing to M/D? He was on normal whiskas wet and dry cat food
 
Karen nayler said:
Hiya

Am actually feeling relieved by what you've said. Have emailed the vet the numbers.

if I'm still awake, I'll do a 10pm (+4) test and will let you know.
I was thinking of doing another curve on Saturday. I can always do +2 tests after the evening shot.

Will not change the food. I'm hoping his numbers mean we can control via diet eventually. have got stuff in case he has a hypo.
Click to expand...



Great. Your vet should be aware of vet stree...it is the same a "white coat syndrome" that some people get at the doctors which will give high blood pressure readings higher than they actually are because of stress. Same thing with kitties and glucose numbers.

Definitely test before each shot and a +2 pr +3 test after shot will tell you if the numbers are dropping too fast in which case you would want to interven and bring the numbers up a bit.

Please post with the next test..Thanks
 
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Karen nayler said:
He was on normal whiskas wet and dry cat food
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That is a very high carb food which could have been part of the reason the glucose numbers went up in the first place. Dty food is NOT good for any kitty let alone a diabetic kitty or one that may be prone to it.
 
Ok, it's 10pm, last test for today ( I have work in 9 hours!) his result was 5.8.

Thanks everyone for your help.
 
Karen nayler said:
Ok, it's 10pm, last test for today ( I have work in 9 hours!) his result was 5.8.

Thanks everyone for your help.
Click to expand...


I would leave out some food for the night since the numbers are still dropping. Some of the dry food would be good since it is higher carb. If you do wake up during the night you could do another test As long as there is no food 2 hours before the morning test the preshot test will be accurate.


ETA Since the 10PM test is actually a +4 test and the number is lower than the preshot your kitty will most likely drop lower in the next 2 hours, so if you can't be up be sure to leave out some food.
 
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