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pjeffrey4444

Member Since 2012
Thank for this board. It has been amazingly helpful to me.

My 7 year old cat Thomas was diagnosed with diabetes about 2 months ago. The vet started him on Lantus 1ml and set him up for a blood glucose curve once a week. He was not responding to the insulin and about two 2 weeks ago we reached a 6 ml dosage. Everything was going fine however we made a huge error in putting off the curve that week and waiting another week. At any rate the day before yesterday he went hypoglycemic and had a seizure in the very early morning. Around 0630. When the vet opened at 0730 I called and my regular vet (who is wonderful) was on a day off. The vet on duty listened to what was going on and told me to come in at 1400. Via this board I have learned that if you hear "cat,diabetic, and seizure" in the same sentence it is of paramount importance to deal with it ASAP. Anyway I took him in and they immediately put him on a glucose drip and sent him home with me at 1830. He had probably 2 seizures during the night and the next morning to took him in when they opened. My regular vet was there and she told me his temp was low and his BG was 25. So he went back on the glucose, came home with us at 1830 and we gave him glucose every 30 min all night. This morning his body temp was normal and BG was 364. Which pleased the vet and now he is home and I am giving him glucose orally every hour. (He goes back in tomorrow) I did express my anger to the vet about the delay in getting him care (she's the boss BTW) and she was livid. So she is now bending over backwards to bring this cat back. He is still pretty out of it. Not walking and not eatting and incontinent. (And this is the scary part) He obviously has suffered some brain damage as he has a stimulus induced facial tic in the form of blinking/wincing. My vet says the weariness is to be expected as he has really had a huge trauma however whether or not the brain damage will ease is anyones guess. She also says that we are not out of the woods but we certainly are not at the give up point. Thus my question.

Has anyone had any experience with this? I know there is no rock solid answer here. I just really need abit of support.

Thanks
 
pjeffrey4444 said:
Thank for this board. It has been amazingly helpful to me.

My 7 year old cat Thomas was diagnosed with diabetes about 2 months ago. The vet started him on Lantus 1ml and set him up for a blood glucose curve once a week. He was not responding to the insulin and about two 2 weeks ago we reached a 6 ml dosage. Everything was going fine however we made a huge error in putting off the curve that week and waiting another week. At any rate the day before yesterday he went hypoglycemic and had a seizure in the very early morning. Around 0630. When the vet opened at 0730 I called and my regular vet (who is wonderful) was on a day off. The vet on duty listened to what was going on and told me to come in at 1400. Via this board I have learned that if you hear "cat,diabetic, and seizure" in the same sentence it is of paramount importance to deal with it ASAP. Anyway I took him in and they immediately put him on a glucose drip and sent him home with me at 1830. He had probably 2 seizures during the night and the next morning to took him in when they opened. My regular vet was there and she told me his temp was low and his BG was 25. So he went back on the glucose, came home with us at 1830 and we gave him glucose every 30 min all night. This morning his body temp was normal and BG was 364. Which pleased the vet and now he is home and I am giving him glucose orally every hour. (He goes back in tomorrow) I did express my anger to the vet about the delay in getting him care (she's the boss BTW) and she was livid. So she is now bending over backwards to bring this cat back. He is still pretty out of it. Not walking and not eatting and incontinent. (And this is the scary part) He obviously has suffered some brain damage as he has a stimulus induced facial tic in the form of blinking/wincing. My vet says the weariness is to be expected as he has really had a huge trauma however whether or not the brain damage will ease is anyones guess. She also says that we are not out of the woods but we certainly are not at the give up point. Thus my question Has anyone had any experience with this? I know there is no rock solid answer here. I just really need abit of support.

Thanks
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First off, I don't think you should EVER go back to that 'vet' office, and you should tell everyone you know to share that nobody should take their animals to that office. Any office which has such horrible staffing and treatment should be avoided like the plague.

Seriously, 6u of Lantus is an irresponsible dose to be giving an animal without testing DAILY, and your vet should have started to mention insulin resistance conditions at that point.

If you can get your dear cat recovered, please take Thomas to a more knowledgeable vet office. If you can post where you are located, hopefully others on the board will give you some recommendations. You can also look online for reviews on vets.. I would look up your current vet and leave a review.

Daily home testing is needed to be sure your cat is safe and even needs insulin. You can pick up a blood glucose meter at the pharmacy, the Relion is a good and economical meter if you are in the US, and other good ones are Bayer, OneTouch, and Accu-Chek... just avoid any of the FreeStyle meters and the store brand ones with TRU in the name.

I would not give Thomas any insulin until you are testing; no human would give themselves or their children insulin shots without testing their BG before every single shot.

I know that others will have words to say about this type of incident, but I was fortunate and have no such experience to relate or that could help.

I hope that any damage is found to be temporary, and please DO find a better vet office.
 
I agree. Find a new vet.

Have you changed the diet to low carb canned food or raw?
The vet you had sounds so awful that they probably recommended one of the "diabetic" dry foods that are still too high in carbs. Too many vets out there
aren't keeping up with the latest.
Diet has such a huge effect on blood glucose.

Hoping things improve really fast.
 
How much glucose are you giving every 30 minutes? Do you have a meter or are all those numbers from the vet office? I'm surprised really that they didn't keep her there and sent her home to have you administer the glucose.

Carl
 
I am in Minneapolis.

To be fair the vet did speak about insulin resistance.

Right now I need to focus on getting Thomas out of the woods. And I need to put my energy there. Regardless of how this turns out I will have a serious talk with my vet. I do not understand why she didn't have me doing BG testing. I feel as if I was unwittingly killing my cat for God knows how long while dosing him blindly.

It's a tough situation. I love my vet. She is an amazing person and in my 20 year experience with her an amazing vet. However these huge errors can't be swept under the table. As I said above Thomas is my focus at this point. I'll have to consider the rest later on.

Thanks for your response.

And to Rhiannon. Yes, I was given Purina DM.
 
Carl & Bob in SC said:
How much glucose are you giving every 30 minutes? Do you have a meter or are all those numbers from the vet office? I'm surprised really that they didn't keep her there and sent her home to have you administer the glucose.

Carl
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The dose is now 5ml once every hour. My vet felt since his body temp was back to normal and the BG level was up it would be better for him to be at home. He has a history of getting himself all worked up there. She felt the quietness of home would be better then the office at this point.

And the numbers are from the vets office.
 
And to Rhiannon. Yes, I was given Purina DM.
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Not really important at the moment, but wet or dry?

Have you been able to get Thomas to eat anything at all?

Carl
 
Carl & Bob in SC said:
And to Rhiannon. Yes, I was given Purina DM.
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Not really important at the moment, but wet or dry?

Have you been able to get Thomas to eat anything at all?

Carl
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Dry :( And now via this board I see that is a bad choice.

He is still pretty out of it. But I have put some wet food on my finger and he seems to enjoy that. I don't want to give him too much because he did vomit earlier.
 
Many cats will eat baby food when they refuse everything else. just be sure to get one that is just meat and broth, NO ONIONS!

I am so sorry to hear this, I agree that the treatment you received was shoddy and negligent! A hypo is a serious emergency and any good vet should have taken you in immediately. You also were got given good advice on the FD treatment. We have several members in Mpls and I'll ask if they have any vet recommendations.

I'm sorry I have no advice other than what you are doing right now. So it was 2 days ago that the first hypo event occurred? and he is still getting glucose and no insulin? Eating wet food from you finger is a good sign. Paws crossed for your recovery.

BTW the Relion meter is only available from Walmart, house brand but from a good mfg. Target also has a good house brand meter, Up & Up, if that is easier to get to. Both of those meters are good and have reasonably priced strips.
 
To the experienced FDMB posters (like Carl): With a BG of 364 this morning, should he really be continuing to administer glucose? Seems an odd suggestion since 364 is pretty elevated -- and wondering if continuing symptoms could be resulting from very high BG (due to continued glucose) rather than low? Should he not discontinue both the Lantus and discontinue the glucose and test to see where the BG levels are moving throughout the day? Just wondering.

PS: You might want to re-edit your post to include the "911" icon indicating emergency. You will get more responses that way, and this seems like an emergency to me.
 
I agree if the hypo is over there should be no need for more glucose. Lantus hypos can be extended, but I have never heard of one lasting over 24 hours if no more insulin was given.
 
Welcome to the Board Thomas a Daddy (with a name of Jeffrey?- correct me if I'm wrong)!

Couple of things- your vet started you out with a good insulin, so she rates maybe a 30% so far (my old one started me on humulin, said it didn't matter if i home test- too much of a bother, and wanted to give me dry food AND fed her dry food when she was at the office for her 'curve'- rates 0%). If she would like information on what a FD cat needs and to avoid this again with another cat give her the information found in this topic-
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2508

Maybe 15% because she pushed up the insulin so high REALLY fast :o . If he gets antsy at the vet because of stress- those numbers she was basing dosing on really aren't reliable. And the 6u dosage- is that twice a day or are you giving 3u twice a day? I read it as 12u total daily which is why I am asking.

Once Thomas starts getting back together here is a list of things that are needed to combat FD:

The correct FOOD-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0 (called Hobo's List)
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (called binky's list)

You want to look for canned food that is low carb. The two lists above are ones that we use- look for the %kcal/carbs- under 10 (5 is better) in both lists. Feed the best you can afford. Most do Fancy Feast, Friskies, 9-lives. This will also help with the UTI- dry food is, well, dry. Canned food has more moisture and when you add water to it the water content is increased- all the better to pee a lot. You do NOT need vet prescription food- it is overpriced, high carbs, and contains high quantities of liver- which most cats won't eat day in and day out. If you bought some just take it back and say your kitty stopped eating it. They should refund even if it is opened. You also should consider feeding several small meals throughout the day. Not only is a diabetic cat losing weight- the reason is because they are literally starving, unable to get the nutrients out of the food they are eating. Give more food in small meals and your cat will slow down once they start getting the nutrients out.

ALWAYS BE TESTING YOUR CAT WHILE CHANGING THE FOOD- IN MOST CASES BG'S WILL DROP- AND SOMETIMES DROP BIG.

Home testing- start this one NOW!
You need to get a glucometer to test your cat- a human one is fine and reliable to use. It reads different than the pet ones but all you really need is the consistency of the levels day in and day out. You might be able to get a free one- there is a spot just at the top of every page that says home testing kits. Here is a link to what's inside:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60261

If you purchase one here is a list from Consumer Reports:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70140

You need to look at the ones that have the cheapest strips- not the cheapest meter. The meter you will buy once, the strips you will continue to purchase over and over again. A lot of people on the board use the Relion micro/confirm meters from Wal-mart because the strips are the cheapest around- $.36 each and usually easy to get (and you can get the strips even cheaper online through the ADW site). Bayer is another popular one. Stay away from the generic kinds that have the word TRUE in the name- those are inaccurate at higher #'s or don't go above 299- and another bad one is the Freestyle Light with the butterfly on the strips- both of these have led many pet owners to believe their cats were okay when they were really in trouble. And you can do your own curves at home when you hometest- that is cheaper than doing it at the vet.

To keep up with the BG #'s there is a spread sheet (SS) that we link to our signature line. Here is the link to set up:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Incidentals-
- Because Thomas has had a rough time lately, I would suggest getting ketosticks (found in the diabetic supply aisle) to test your kitty for ketones that lead to DKA- this is a very serious and deadly (and EXPENSIVE) illness. For $7 you get 50 strips- the best insurance against ketones possible. If you catch it early the easier it is to treat. Because he has been dosed high you can keep an eye on what his body is doing with a lowered dose.
- Lancets- for your first box go for the lowest gauge you can find- 26 or 28. His ears won't bleed that much at the start. There are so many u-tube videos out there that can show you how to test the ear. You can either use the lancet pen or free-hand. I free-hand as I feel like I have more control over the pointy end. After the first box is used up you can switch to 31 gauge.
- TREATS! In the videos you see the cats eager to be tested. That is because they are shamelessly bribed into sitting still because of a yummy treat that is given after testing. Freeze-dried chicken, beef, shrimp are no carb treats and there are others out there that get used as well. Give this treat ONLY a poke time- tests or shots. Your cat might not care for treats, mine never did- she just knows it comes before her food :lol:

Good luck getting Thomas healthy again.
 
hmjohnston said:
Welcome to the Board Thomas a Daddy (with a name of Jeffrey?- correct me if I'm wrong)!

Couple of things- your vet started you out with a good insulin, so she rates maybe a 30% so far (my old one started me on humulin, said it didn't matter if i home test- too much of a bother, and wanted to give me dry food AND fed her dry food when she was at the office for her 'curve'- rates 0%). If she would like information on what a FD cat needs and to avoid this again with another cat give her the information found in this topic-
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2508

Maybe 15% because she pushed up the insulin so high REALLY fast :o . If he gets antsy at the vet because of stress- those numbers she was basing dosing on really aren't reliable. And the 6u dosage- is that twice a day or are you giving 3u twice a day? I read it as 12u total daily which is why I am asking.

Once Thomas starts getting back together here is a list of things that are needed to combat FD:

The correct FOOD-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0 (called Hobo's List)
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (called binky's list)

You want to look for canned food that is low carb. The two lists above are ones that we use- look for the %kcal/carbs- under 10 (5 is better) in both lists. Feed the best you can afford. Most do Fancy Feast, Friskies, 9-lives. This will also help with the UTI- dry food is, well, dry. Canned food has more moisture and when you add water to it the water content is increased- all the better to pee a lot. You do NOT need vet prescription food- it is overpriced, high carbs, and contains high quantities of liver- which most cats won't eat day in and day out. If you bought some just take it back and say your kitty stopped eating it. They should refund even if it is opened. You also should consider feeding several small meals throughout the day. Not only is a diabetic cat losing weight- the reason is because they are literally starving, unable to get the nutrients out of the food they are eating. Give more food in small meals and your cat will slow down once they start getting the nutrients out.

ALWAYS BE TESTING YOUR CAT WHILE CHANGING THE FOOD- IN MOST CASES BG'S WILL DROP- AND SOMETIMES DROP BIG.

Home testing- start this one NOW!
You need to get a glucometer to test your cat- a human one is fine and reliable to use. It reads different than the pet ones but all you really need is the consistency of the levels day in and day out. You might be able to get a free one- there is a spot just at the top of every page that says home testing kits. Here is a link to what's inside:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60261

If you purchase one here is a list from Consumer Reports:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70140

You need to look at the ones that have the cheapest strips- not the cheapest meter. The meter you will buy once, the strips you will continue to purchase over and over again. A lot of people on the board use the Relion micro/confirm meters from Wal-mart because the strips are the cheapest around- $.36 each and usually easy to get (and you can get the strips even cheaper online through the ADW site). Bayer is another popular one. Stay away from the generic kinds that have the word TRUE in the name- those are inaccurate at higher #'s or don't go above 299- and another bad one is the Freestyle Light with the butterfly on the strips- both of these have led many pet owners to believe their cats were okay when they were really in trouble. And you can do your own curves at home when you hometest- that is cheaper than doing it at the vet.

To keep up with the BG #'s there is a spread sheet (SS) that we link to our signature line. Here is the link to set up:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Incidentals-
- Because Thomas has had a rough time lately, I would suggest getting ketosticks (found in the diabetic supply aisle) to test your kitty for ketones that lead to DKA- this is a very serious and deadly (and EXPENSIVE) illness. For $7 you get 50 strips- the best insurance against ketones possible. If you catch it early the easier it is to treat. Because he has been dosed high you can keep an eye on what his body is doing with a lowered dose.
- Lancets- for your first box go for the lowest gauge you can find- 26 or 28. His ears won't bleed that much at the start. There are so many u-tube videos out there that can show you how to test the ear. You can either use the lancet pen or free-hand. I free-hand as I feel like I have more control over the pointy end. After the first box is used up you can switch to 31 gauge.
- TREATS! In the videos you see the cats eager to be tested. That is because they are shamelessly bribed into sitting still because of a yummy treat that is given after testing. Freeze-dried chicken, beef, shrimp are no carb treats and there are others out there that get used as well. Give this treat ONLY a poke time- tests or shots. Your cat might not care for treats, mine never did- she just knows it comes before her food :lol:

Good luck getting Thomas healthy again.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response. He was getting 6 units 2x daily.
 
I sent you a pm. You should see in the upper left hand corner of the screen an alert for it. Just click on "unread" messages.
If you are actually IN the city, I could run over a meter, lancets, etc. this afternoon or much later this evening. Otherwise, I could help you out with testing and support tomorrow. My number is in the message. Feel free to give me a call as soon as you see it. I'm home.
 
Carolyn asked me to chime in here since my wife, PJ, and I had a similar experience with Cagney when she was first diagnosed nearly 6 years ago. Finding this board and following the advice given here, especially from our locals, really helped. You've gotten some great advice here, so I'd just like to address what you may be looking at for the long term (your mileage may vary, of course).

While Cagney didn't have seizures that we know of, by the time we got her away from the vet that overdosed her on Humulin (I think), we got her to an ER vet who wrote in her records that she was "essentially a dead kitty." Her core temp was ridiculously low, her BG was unreadably low, and she was in a coma.

She was in the ER for a few days. When she first woke up, she was lethargic and blind. She wouldn't eat and couldn't walk. We told the vet to watch her tail. If her tail started flipping, she was feeling better. Within a couple of days, the tail started going. She started eating a little on her own. She walked like a drunken sailor, but it was pretty obvious that her eyesight was returning. Within a week, she was recuperating at home. Before leaving the ER, we learned how to test her, give shots, and give fluids and meds subcutaneously.

That was almost 6 years ago. Today, 2 months shy of her 16th birthday, she's doing pretty well. We haven't been able to regulate her BG and likely never will. At this point, she's getting 0.6u of Lantus twice daily. Her BGs fluctuate from the high 400s to the 30s and she seems most comfortable in the mid-200s. THIS IS VERY UNUSUAL AND SHOULD NOT IN ANY WAY BE CONSIDERED NORMAL FOR A CAT. Cagney, on the other hand, scoffs at "normal" and just does her own thing.

She's had bouts with pancreatitis (we now know what to look for with her behavior and can reverse an attack before she needs hospitalization) and she needs SubQ fluids (SQuids) regularly to help her body keep bulked up and able to fight off pancreatitis and kidney issues. We have lab work done at least yearly to monitor her liver and kidney functions and we keep an eye on her gums and inner ears for any yellowing that might indicate liver problems.

Anyone who didn't know her health issues would assume, just observing her, that she's an older cat in good health. Essentially they'd be right. She is an older cat in good health, but her good health has a lot to do with diligent monitoring, observation, and daily treatments. That may sound difficult, but really it doesn't take all that much time and effort compared to all the rest of the time during the day that she gets to be a cat instead of a patient. Testing and shooting take 10 minutes a day max for us, and that's if we're being slow or she's making us chase her to give her a test. And our friends and family have gotten used to us having to excuse ourselves to "stab and shoot the kitty" as we put it.

Again, your mileage will vary, no doubt, but there is hope for recovery from the brain damage. It may very well be temporary. Could also be permanent, but you and Thomas will be able to determine if that's an issue for his quality of life. It might just be a different, but still good, quality of life for a very long time. For Cagney, while she didn't return to her pre-overdose normal kittyness, she now has her own Cagneyessense and that's just fine by us.
 
The vet who diagnosed Cyclone, my first diabetic cat, prescribed Humulin (wrong insulin for cats), told me it didn't matter what he ate, said nothing about home testing, and shrugged when Cycles started developing neuropathy. I gave up on him when I wanted to discuss type of insulin and home-testing, and he had never heard of Lantus and (more importantly) didn't even want to look at my testing spreadsheet. I still kick myself hard for not educating myself and coming here and taking over Cyclone's treatment myself long before I did, so you're doing better than I did in that way.

From everything I've experienced and seen here, the majority of vets don't know how to treat feline diabetes. If you really like your vet and think she'll be receptive, discussing what went wrong and referring her to the latest research and telling her it's vital to get her clients to at least try home testing and to get their cats on low-carb canned food, and how to build up to an effective dose safely, could mean not only getting an improved vet for yourself but saving other cats she treats in the future. Quite a few people here have successfully educated vets. Maybe this will be a wake-up call for her.

My own approach is to use my current vet (who I like) basically for checkups, tests, and prescriptions, while managing Salem's diet and dosage myself.

What a horrible time you and Thomas have gone through. Fingers crossed for his quick recovery.
 
You've got great input from others with much more experience. I just want to say I'm glad YOU were paying attention and were able to get Thomas in for help.

My sister lives in Stillwater, and has a vet she's really pleased with. Should you need additional info, just PM me for the contact info.

Lu-Ann
 
Thanks to all for the replies so far. Carolyn just left. She came over and brought strips, a lancing pen, meter,food along with some wonderful suggestions and advice. I have no words for such a kind gesture. Thomas seems to be starting to be abit more responsive. (He tried to scratch himself while Carolyn was here.) I may not chime in alot right now as I am feeling overwhelmed and anxious. But rest assured I will be reading and appreciating each response I get.

Jeff
 
I am writing on behalf of Jeff and Thomas to let you know they may be mia and unable to post for a while. Jeff is likely going to bring Thomas to the university of mn emergency room to make sure he is getting the proper care and accurate prognosis.

Thomas was very easy to test, giving us a 345. I suggested Jeff call the vet regarding further administration of dextrose. It was decided by the vet to stop giving it. Jeff will keep testing. We also went over syringe fedding and got a few ml of babyfood and water into Thomas, which he kept down. Jeff plans to keep feeding small amounts. He also has ketostix.

I think the university is the best place to go at this point. Tho thomas is pretty unwell at the moment, he did show some good signs (opening eyes, stretching, attempting to scratch self, etc). I am optimistic for a good outcome. He has a very caring human watching over him. :)
 
Just wanted to say that I have never been SO impressed by such an amazing, informative and caring board. I've been following this thread all day and am just blown away at the compassion seen here. Kudos to all of you and best wishes for Thomas.
 
You have gotten great advice and just wanted to add about the DKA, of which I know too well. When a cat is terribly sick they can throw off ketones and they can build up in the system and in turn if other factors are there can throw a cat into DKA. You can buy ketostix at any vet and check his urine to let you know. Also the suggestion of feeding baby food right now is great! When a cat is diabetic and unregulated they are usually hungry all the time but if they won't eat, sometimes they will eat meat baby food.

Hang in there! My Payne almost died four times before I figured it all out :( but with the help of everyone here she is great today!! It will get easier and cats are known for their ability to come back.
Nancy and Payne .....
 
I am SOOOO glad you found this board. Thomas is extremely lucky to have survived this. So many vets have their clients shoot without testing and I'm sure hypo deaths are very common and blamed on something else by the vets from what I've seen here. Maybe your vet will agree to push home testing for her clients as a result of your experience and something good will come of this. I had to go through four vets to find one that would agree to the lantus land protocol and home testing. It wasn't easy. I won't let her go now.

I am not a diabetes expert. I really chime in when people need help getting food into cats. So I don't want to overwhelm you. Food is critical for a few reasons... to avoid diabetic keto acidocis (a combination of not enough insulin, infection and not enough calories). A cat has to keep food down to make sure they don't go hypo with lantus. And a cats biology - their livers clog with fat when they resort to fat stores for calories. This is called feline hepatic lipidosis/fatty liver which is liver failure can happen quickly - a few days of no food and over a few weeks of less than maintenance calories. Maverick almost died from FHL before his diabetes diagnosis and had a feeding tube for ten weeks.

The diabetes experts can comment on the vomiting. Maybe this is something from the hypo/seizures.

Can you feed small amounts frequently and see how he handles it and increase it a little each time if he keeps it down? Once an hour for example. Meat baby food is great but is low calore (one without starch). How much does Thomas weigh? It is probably easier on his stomach than canned food.

Finger feeding food is a great way to assist feed. The point is to get the calories in. I am a member of a wonderful yahoo group dedicated to helping people assist feed their cats. Syringe feeding/finger feeding etc is something all owners need to be aware of so they can get a cat through a crisis. The recommendation on the Yahoo Feline Assisted Feeding group is 1 5.5 oz can of food a day. Wellness Chicken is high in calories and low carb. You want to finger feed/assist feed a food you don't want him eating on his own so he doesn't develop a food aversion to it.

Maverick was able to avoid insulin for a whole year by changing him to low carb wet food. He would only eat special kitty turkey and giblet though. I had to assist feed him a lot because it took him four months to learn how to eat wet food after 12 years eating only kibble. I hope Thomas will eat wet food with little issue. But wet food can be a lot less calories than dry. Once you get Thomas out of his crisis I will post more on weight maintenance and how to monitor it.

Carolyn you are amazing, as is everyone on this board. Its like no where else and I am grateful for everyone here even a year after losing Maverick.

You are in great hands!!!!!
 
Thank you, Carolyn. You are an angel.
Jeff, I wish you the best possible luck with Thomas.
 
Carolyn ---

You rock!!

Jeff -- please let us know what questions you have. We'll try to not overwhelm you with information. The front end of the feline diabetes learning curve is very steep and our tendency is to do a data dump to get you up to speed. You're dealing with a lot and I know if I were in your shoes, my stomach would be in a knot. I'm glad Carolyn is there and can be a resource in real time. I'm sure she's acquainted you with Latte's story.

Like I said, let us know what you need.
 
An update on my Tommy before bed.

He is lying at my feet and resting comfortably. I have been giving him 9 ml of mushy wet cat food and 9 ml of water every hour. Both of which he is eagerly lapping from the syringe. He still is glued to the bed and cannot stand however the twitching seems to have eased somewhat. Actually when feeding him the soupy wet food he was grabbing at the syringe. I will give him dextrose one more time before sleeping. I have him on pads and plastic as I am sure he will need to empty everything sometime during the night.

Here is my plan. Tomorrow he goes to the vet at 0830. If I do not like what I hear I am immediately taking him to the U. This kitty is not done yet. I know that.

You have all touched my heart. Especially you Carolyn. My god what a dear you are. I will check in tomorrow.

Oh and on edit. I have promised myself that however this turns out I will sit down with my vet and talk with her about home BG testing. And I will tell her frankly that if she had insisted that do that this might have turned out quite differently. And if she doesn't like that well.......it will be easy to ask for my pets records and find a new vet.
 
Here is my plan. Tomorrow he goes to the vet at 0830. If I do not like what I hear I am immediately taking him to the U. This kitty is not done yet. I know that.
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That sounds like an awesome plan. And I love the positive attitude! When I had to leave the house for work at 2 today, I had a hard time doing so. I wanted to keep watching. I checked in during the day, but couldn't post. All I can say is Carolyn, you are an angel. And this place continues to amaze me on a daily basis.

We'll all be looking for updates tomorrow!
Have a peaceful evening and my thoughts and prayers will be with you and Thomas,

Carl
 
I know you will not see this until a.m., but I want to thank you so much for posting an update. I was quite distracted at work this evening, as I thought about Thomas. I am glad to hear the twitching may be slowing down a little. That is a GREAT sign! And, that he was interested in the food, even if he did not have energy to eat it on his own. :thumbup He knows how much you love him. He is a fighter!

It sounds like you are doing a GREAT job getting food in him. Kudos to you!!! It can be a mentally exhausting thing for a caregiver, but so necessary to get past a crisis. Keep using that syringe I brought you. The one your vet gave (standard, nothing wrong with it) has a rubber stopper that will wear out. The other syringe has no rubber stopper. It will last FOREVER. It is gold. :mrgreen:

I was under the impression your vet said no more glucose. Sorry if I was wrong. Any success with testing?

I wish you all a restful night, and more improvement in the a.m. It sounds like you have a good plan tomorrow.

I appreciate the kudos, but I think we all know...any one of you would do the same thing to help another person/cat. And if it were not for all those who gave to me and Latte in the past, I would have not been able to help as I did. So...Give yourselves a pat on the back, k? :-D
 
I'd cut out the water and just syringe feed food blended really well. Wet food is 70% water and you'll get twice the amount of calories into him.

Thank you for posting an update. I've been thinking about him tons also. Good luck today. I think you have a great plan.
 
Quick update before the vet. He is 1000x better! Sitting up. Eyes open. He ate a bowl of wet food on his own. Still not walking but hell he almost died 24 hours ago. The shaking is still around but it seems less pronounced somehow. I am really hopeful!
Hugs. I'll post more apres vet.

Jeff
 
Update on Thomas.

Off to the vet at 0800 this morning. His BG was 65. No ketones. Less twitching and almost walking.

About an hour ago I just got my first successful BGT. 105. :razz:

He is now walking fine. Slowly but fine. Not falling but not quite ready for the stairs yet.

AND about 5 min. ago he used the litter box. :cool:

He is a different cat today.

I am grateful beyond words for the help and support I found on this board. Especially Carolyn. Simply an amazing experience.

I'll continue updates.
 
Fantastic news!!! Senior posters: is it possible Thomas is no longer diabetic or are these typical readings post hypo episode? Jeffrey, were those readings of 65 and 105 without any additional Lantus given? Wouldn't that be wonderful if true (fingers crossed!!!!). Please post new photos as Thomas improves. I know there are are lots of folks hanging on this thread...praying for Thomas. I've been checking back myself all day. He is such a beautiful boy!!!
 
first i'll start with a disclaimer :-) : NO ONE should read this and ever ever ever consider that they can purposely hypo their cat to obtain remission. and if i were to ever hear of someone intentionally doing it, i might have to do something to that person. (j/k of course. i'd just chew them out really really bad)

in all my years as a member of fdmb, there have been several times where a cat suffers a symptomatic or horrible hypo episode and they go into remission. or they become overly sensitive to insulin and their insulin needs are greatly reduced. i'm not sure if there has ever been an explanation as to why it happens, but it happens. it's like it jumpstarts the pancreas or something. thus, the need for increased diligence after a hypo as far as testing goes, and choosing a dose if insulin is to be continued.

back to my disclaimer i suppose, there are also plenty of kitties that hypo and DO NOT go into remission, thus there really really is no reason to risk your cat's life to see if yours is one that will (directed to readers/lurkers in general. obviously not to pjeffrey. just wanted to make sure that's clear)
 
MelanieP and Ninja said:
Fantastic news!!! Senior posters: is it possible Thomas is no longer diabetic or are these typical readings post hypo episode? Jeffrey, were those readings of 65 and 105 without any additional Lantus given? Wouldn't that be wonderful if true (fingers crossed!!!!). Please post new photos as Thomas improves. I know there are are lots of folks hanging on this thread...praying for Thomas. I've been checking back myself all day. He is such a beautiful boy!!!
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Right, he hasn't had any Lantus since Tuesday at 1800.
 
Cindy + Mousie said:
first i'll start with a disclaimer :-) : NO ONE should read this and ever ever ever consider that they can purposely hypo their cat to obtain remission. and if i were to ever hear of someone intentionally doing it, i might have to do something to that person. (j/k of course. i'd just chew them out really really bad)

in all my years as a member of fdmb, there have been several times where a cat suffers a symptomatic or horrible hypo episode and they go into remission. or they become overly sensitive to insulin and their insulin needs are greatly reduced. i'm not sure if there has ever been an explanation as to why it happens, but it happens. it's like it jumpstarts the pancreas or something. thus, the need for increased diligence after a hypo as far as testing goes, and choosing a dose if insulin is to be continued.

back to my disclaimer i suppose, there are also plenty of kitties that hypo and DO NOT go into remission, thus there really really is no reason to risk your cat's life to see if yours is one that will (directed to readers/lurkers in general. obviously not to pjeffrey. just wanted to make sure that's clear)
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After being through this I wholehearted agree with your post! Even if and that's a big IF his pancreas has been "jumpstarted" it certainly wasn't worth almost losing him
 
Agreed! You'll probably want to continue testing him though for another couple of weeks (a guess), just to make sure his BG levels don't start creeping up. When I have seen other kitties on this board go into remission (or OTJ -- off-the-juice, as they say), I believe the owners continue to test BG levels for 14 days (twice a day, am & pm) without giving insulin to make sure their kitty's pancreas is working and that they no longer need insulin. If they make it through the 14 day trial period, then they have an OTJ party. Here's hoping you can have one for Thomas!!!!! If not though, like Cindy said, he may likely need just a tiny amount moving forward; or just may need to be on insulin a little while longer and then go into remission, or other scenario. Anything is possible. Time will tell.
 
Jeff-
If I remember correctly your vet said the hypo was likely due to his pancreas healing and going into remission. I think most of us here will disagree with that considering the dose you were instructed to give. BUT it is always possible. That makes a strong case to your vet about the need for home testing, if Thomas needs insulin in the future. It's no guarantee he is going into remission the day you take him in for a curve at the vet. His body could decide to do so two days later. And without testing, the only way to know is when the cat is in a life/death crisis. Is that really fair to do to any living being?

You might also suggest they give their clients information on hypoglycemia when prescribing insulin. Here is one of the guides we have on the site: http://www.felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm. You should always be given the signs/symptoms to look for in case of an adverse reaction with any medication. Why would you not do that for insulin? Don't worry, your vet is not the only one who forgets or neglects to do this. You are more than welcome to print up any information on this site and give it to your vet. Feel free to ask them to come to the site on their own ( http://www.felinediabetes.com/ ). They are always welcome!

Anyway, that is how I might approach it. I hope this ends up being a good lesson, and helps them change their ways a little bit. Sorry it had to be at yours and Thomas' expense.

It's great to hear about Thomas' improvements. I can sense the relief in your tone. We all look forward to more updates (and photos ;-) ). I will keep sending positive vibes for a full recovery.

Oh...and....I think it would be ok to test him one more time. Maybe tonight before bed? :mrgreen:
 
Yesterday was my first day on the FDMB site and I came across this thread and the story of Thomas. So exciting to hear of his progress!! (and such wonderful, helpful people on this site!) Keep up the great parenting!
 
First off, AWESOME news! Does Thomas not have a tail, or is it just hidden in that picture? Very handsome little man!

I have a question for people well versed in Lantus/Lev. Having been dosed at 6u bid for a while, could the numbers today be somewhat related to the depot, and maybe it isn't empty yet?

Carl
 
Carl & Bob in SC said:
Having been dosed at 6u bid for a while, could the numbers today be somewhat related to the depot, and maybe it isn't empty yet?
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I believe so, Carl. It can take some time for the shed to drain, thus the continued dextrose. It is interesting how he was in the 300's yesterday and dropped back into normal ranges today. It could have to do with the amount and frequency of dextrose given in the beginning vs now. I'm not sure how much change has taken place with that in the last 24hrs. Maybe Jeff will share that information.
 
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