First post, diagnosed yesterday.

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twinkiefreekitty

twinkiefreekitty

Member Since 2012
Hello, this is our first post. We have already used this forum to figure out what our cat's symptoms meant - the vet was closed for the weekend and we had noticed sticky pee, incredible thirst, weak back legs. We changed his food from Purina Indoor to FF Classic immediately on Saturday afternoon. By Wednesday, the sticky pee and thirst had improved, but we took Winny to the vet anyway because obviously he should still be seen. His blood glucose was 415, I think the vet said normal range was 70-105? Something like that.

The vet wanted us to try 10 days of diet modification - unfortunately with Purina DM dry food, which has already caused a return of the thirst and sticky pee after two meals. We go back in ten days for another glucose test and the vet will then show us the insulin routine if there is no progress on the diet.

Winny is a big old male kitty - which I'm sure surprises no one here. He's been our only family pet and he's been wonderful. We don't intend to have another pet after he's done with living his long, pampered and slightly delinquent life. He was a hooligan in his younger years. I'm hoping that treatment will help him feel more energetic or at least delay liver and kidney damage so he can enjoy more of the luxury his human family supplies for him.

And no, we've never given our cat Twinkies or other human food despite the username! lol. If he was a human, we're quite sure he'd insist on a steady diet of Twinkies.

Thank you for all the information here. I hope we can find some help here as we learn how to look after Winny and how to afford his treatment.
 
Welcome aboard!

Here's some of what we tell all newcomers:

This is manageable at home, much less expensively than your vet is quoting, since the majority of testing and doseage adjustment can be done by YOU, with some reading.

Since Winny isn't on insulin yet, 1) diet change and 2) testing are the first order of business.

1) Ditch any and all dry food - it doesn't help the teeth and it has 30-40% of the calories from carbohydrates (ok, some prescription are around 20%, which is still too high)
Also, you can use NON-PRESCRIPTION FOOD that is easily obtainable - for example Fancy Feast Classic Pate are generally below 10% calories from carbohydrates. That'll cut your cost from $2 a can or more, to something reasonable. Binky's Page discusses food for diabetic cats and has pages about the calorie distributions. Also, Pet Food Nutritional Comparisons provides some other listings.

2) get a human glucometer and test strips here for shipping and handling costs, or from our shopping partners listed above. The WalMart ReliOn Confirm is the same thing as the Arkray Glucocard 01, which may be ordered from American Diabetes Wholesale at the shopping partners link above. It is one of the least expensive to purchase, and uses a tiny amount of blood for the testing. Although there are pet-specific glucometers, they are expensive, you can't get strips locally without going to the vet, and the strips are very expensive. There are veterinary documents which explain how to use the values from human glucometers correctly.

3) ketone testing - at a local pharmacy, pick up some urine test strips - ex Ketodiastix - so that you can watch for ketones. If these are very high, it could indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a fatal condition if untreated and extremely expensive to treat. You use this to test fresh urine. If your cat is agreeable, you place the test strip or a soupspoon/ladle under the cat while urinating. For the spoon, you then dip the strip in the spoon. Within about 1 minute, the strip will change color IF there are any ketones. The darker it gets, the more there are. For the bashful cat, you use clean acquarium gravel in the litterbox, let the cat use it, push the gravel over, tilt the pan, and dip, within 30 minutes after use. If necessary, you can wash and re-use the gravel, although it is time-consuming!

Testing after changing the food will determine IF Winny will continue to need insulin or if he can be diet controlled.
Testing after starting insulin will determine if it is safe to give insulin, and how to adjust the dose. Lantus, Levemir, ProZinc, and PZI are all gentle insulins which will work wel for most cats. If the vet wants to use Humulin N, this suggests the vet is woefully out of date with contemporary feline diabetes care.
 
Take the DM dry back and tell them Winny won't eat it and go right back to feeding him the FF classics! That will be a far better diet from Sir Winny than that overpriced carby dry food.

next step since you are on insulin as of yet is to get a regular human glucometer and start learning to test your boy yourself at home. You will find lots of tips and videos on how we all test our sugarbabies at home here home testing. In 10 days when you go back to have him rechecked and find out how to give insulin should he still need it at least you will plenty of data that will be far more accurate than the numbers the vet will see because almost all cats suffer some vet stress. The normal range that you will be looking for on a human meter is between 40-120 or on a pet only meter which it sounds like your vet is using is 70-150. Human meters tend to run about 30 points lower than a human one, but the human meters work just fine and almost all of us use one for testing our kitties. Walmart has a nice little meter called the Relion Micro, or Relion Confirm both of these meters take a very small sample of blood and the test strips where the real expense is are about the cheapest there is around $20 for 50, other than the meter and strips you will need a lancing device and lancets to fit it.

If he should still need insulin (and most do for at least a short period of time) I, personally, would request that he be started on no more that 1u twice a day, and that the insulin prescribed be either Lantus, Levemir or PZI all three of these are gentle long lasting insulin that work wonderfully for cats. You will want to stay away from Humulin N as it hits far too hard and wears off far too quickly.

Now that we have covered the very basics Congrats on being a proud owner of a Sugarcat!!! And welcome to the best place you never wanted to be but will be so blessed to have found.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
It's been said, but dry food is a real enemy in this fight. Even the "prescription" dry food is terrible for diabetic kitties. Shiro looks to be diet-only remissing on FF Classics and the occasional Elegant Medley.

Home testing is an invaluable tool. I use the ReliOn confirm to test Shiro almost every day, 3 times a day. Just while we're still unsure about his potential remission. It's super easy to use and like BJM said, you can get the Arkray strips to use with it.

Above all things, trust this forum and the wonderful people in it. Their help has kept me sane and gotten shiro over 300 points lower than he was when he was first diagnosed. Best of luck!
 
Thank you all so much. I'll get the blood testing equipment straight away so I can see where we are and introduce the idea of such an affront to Winny. He isn't at all keen on being fussed with!
 
We advocate lots and lots of positive reinforcement to encourage cooperation with testing.
Low carb treats, such as freeze dried fish or chicken, or fresh boiled bits of chicken make good incentives to cooperate.

Until you get your testing equipment, pet, fiddle with ears, and treat. Repeat several times a day - morning and evening, bedtime, etc. You want to reward allowing the behavior.

And since a spot of exercise won't hurt and will help enhance your bond, play sessions of 15-20 minutes, done before meals, will simulate a normal hunt, catch, kill, eat, groom, sleep behavior cycle. Plus, the exercise may slightly help the muscles use the glucose.
 
BJM said:
We advocate lots and lots of positive reinforcement to encourage cooperation with testing.
Low carb treats, such as freeze dried fish or chicken.
Click to expand...

Where do I buy freeze dried fish or chicken? I'm a vegetarian!

Thanks so much for your advice on how to ease Winny into these new routines.
 
Large Pet Supply stores or online stores will carry freeze-dried pet treats.
The ones in the dog section are bigger and must be broken up to use, but may be more economical.
You want ones that are 100% fish or chicken, etc.
 
twinkiefreekitty said:
Where do I buy freeze dried fish or chicken?
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At the pet store :smile: If there are none in the cat treat section, look in the dog treat section. You want 100% meat or fish treats. These are typically freeze-dried.

Freeze dried raw pet food can also be used as treats.

Here's a list of popular low carb brands: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172 Some can be found in pet stores (some in the chain stores, others only at specialty higher end pet stores/boutiques). Most can be bought online at various places like Amazon.com, OnlyNaturalPet.com (good selection of healthy low carb treats there), PetFoodDirect.com, etc.
 
Update:

Since my first post I've been hampered by increasing health problems (major back surgery in January and now I'm back to hardly walking) so I never got to make the trip to Petsmart to get Winny his treats or glucose meter. I don't know how people live like this permanently, it's driving me bonkers. I kept waiting for a good day so I could walk through the acreage of parking lots and store aisles at walmart and petsmart, but things got worse instead of better.

Winny took a few days to get back onto Fancy Feast after the purina dm stuff. We took him back yesterday and he was down to 305, so yay for Fancy Feast. For some reason, although the clinic was expecting us, they had no insulin. They called it in to a pharmacy on the other side of the city, so I made the trek out there this morning on my way to my own doctor.

The vet made me practice injecting Winny with an empty needle. The pharmacy gave me more advice on how to draw the insulin out (I can't remember what type they gave me, it's all the way downstairs now). I guess we'll be starting tomorrow. Vet wants 2 units once a day in the mornings for ten days.

So, at the moment, Winny and I are evenly paced when it comes to moving and getting up and down the stairs. Some days we just sit down halfway up the stairs and take a break. If the insulin helps him, he'll get more energetic... and then how do I catch him to give him the shots? lol. He only has to be a tiny bit faster than a snail to get away from me at the moment!
 
Just an option - you can order the treats online from PetSmart or PetCo. Is there anyone who could stop by Walmart and pick up a meter and strips for you? We can give you the exact info.

Or - have you told us where you are located? Maybe we have a member nearby who could help out.
 
twinkiefreekitty said:
Update:

The vet made me practice injecting Winny with an empty needle. The pharmacy gave me more advice on how to draw the insulin out (I can't remember what type they gave me, it's all the way downstairs now). I guess we'll be starting tomorrow. Vet wants 2 units once a day in the mornings for ten days.
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AACCKK!! You vet does not understand or remember how insulin works in cats!!!!

The feline metabolism is twice as fast as dogs and must get insulin every 12 hours.

Please give 1 unit of insulin every 12 hours; giving 2 units all at once could be too much, with potentially fatal consequences.

As far as catching him - if you always give him a low carb treat after testing and shooting, he'll be coming to you, no chasing needed.
 
Gave Winny his first dose this morning, unfortunately before reading that 1 unit every 12 hours was better. Does it sting when it goes in? He jumped not when I put the needle in but when the insulin went in.

The vet is a dog person. On the diagnosis visit he claimed that cats are "so darned lazy" that it's impossible to make them exercise. Now, he is a good vet, he's older and isn't interested in making $800 every time I go to see him, unlike the last place. I trust this vet to be sensible about when Winny can no longer enjoy life. His tech this time seemed to be a cat lover and she told me that the relief vet has been following recent studies by a local expert in feline diabetes. I was given Lantus (sp?) which I think is one that is recommended here.

Vet told me to do 2 units once a day and go back 10 days time, he wants to see Winny 4 hours after a dose of insulin. He said some cats manage on one dose a day and some need two.

When I picked up the insulin yesterday I told the pharmacist I wanted to be absolutely sure of what I was doing "because I don't want to kill my cat". She went step by step and reassured me that I couldn't kill him with 2 units, but now I'm concerned.

Half an hour after giving Winny his first dose, he was laying on the kitchen steps looking through the screen door and he started howling. I was upstairs and it took me a while to get down to him. My son (who doesn't function too well at 7:00 a.m.) said he had no idea why he was howling. There may have been another cat outside, or he may have been feeling bad. That was an hour ago, now he's moving around a little more.

Can I get a glucose meter and strips etc at CVS? Smaller, closer stores with smaller parking lots are much easier for me to get to. I'll order some treats online since I now know I'm not going to be walking again until I get some treatment.

Thanks so much for all your help.

Is there any other input on whether I should split the dose? Is that what everyone here does?
 
HI Winny, yes I do think that a safe starting dose is 1 unit twice a day (12 hours apart is optimal). Also Lantus builds up a shed or reserve so hold the dose for at least 5 days before increasing it. My own cat is on Lantus and the first couple of weeks her blood glucose numbers were all over the place. As for a glucometer - yes you can buy it from any drugstore (CVS is fine) the main cost is in the testing strips which is why people mostly go with Relion from Walmart - their strips are the most economical. There is one commercial meter that you should stay away from and that is meters with Free or True in the name. People with Freestyle meters report that their readings are way off which makes insulin dosing difficult or dangerous. Also you will need to purchase lancets - go with a higher gauge 31 because it'll be easier to get blood from the ears when first starting out. Jan
 
I agree with Jan, except on the lancets. The 31 gauge are the thinnest. You want fatter ones at first - 25-28 gauge. The 30-31 gauge are the ones humans use, so you might have to ask the pharmacist.

Also, the strips are the expensive part. Buy some from the store and then you can buy the rest you will need from EBay. Search for the brand that matches your meter with a good expiration date and choose a reputable seller.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I agree with Jan, except on the lancets. The 31 gauge are the thinnest. You want fatter ones at first - 25-28 gauge. The 30-31 gauge are the ones humans use, so you might have to ask the pharmacist.

Also, the strips are the expensive part. Buy some from the store and then you can buy the rest you will need from EBay. Search for the brand that matches your meter with a good expiration date and choose a reputable seller.
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I agree with Sue--you want to get a lower gauge, 26-28, not the 30-33g. The super thin lancets usually make testing much harder in the beginning. If you can get to a Walmart, the Relion Confirm is a good meter that has very cheap test strips--plus you can order test strips for it online for even cheaper through American Diabetes Wholesale (where it's called the arkray glucocard). I know you have mobility problems because of your back, but Walmart is usually very good at providing motorized shopping carts for people with health issues that reduce mobility like yours.
 
Can you please tell us your location (city/state)? I'm concerned that you don't have appropriate testing supplies and emergency items, and won't be able to get them quickly if needed.

MJ
 
Welcome to FDMB.

Now that you've started giving insulin, it is really important that you start testing. It's the only way to make sure that Winny is safe both in terms of giving a shot and the numbers aren't dropping too low. I bought my meter (a Bayer Contour) at Walgreens. Like everyone noted, if you buy the strips at a pharmacy, you'll pay double the price for half the strips than if you buy on-line. I buy my strips from EBay or Amazon. Many people here have been happy with the Arkay meter that's available through ADW.

You will want to make sure that you not only have a supply of strips, but also high carb food. Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers or any of the roasted, marinated, or grilled varieties that have gravy are typically high in carbs. You use the gravy in the food to steer numbers if they are running low. There are links for information on putting together a "Hypo Kit" so you have emergency supplies at your disposal.

I completely agree with BJ -- 1.0u twice a day (12 hours apart) is appropriate for a cat. I'd encourage you to read the starred sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board so you have an overview of Lantus and dosing. The information, in brief, is as follows:

  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal versions -- the Tilly Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany and the Queensland/Rand protocol developed by Jacqui Rand, DVM and published in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot/shed: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Lantus & Levemir: Shooting & Handling Low Numbers: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation as well as information if you have a low pre-shot number or a drop into low numbers during the cycle.
 
THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!

Okay, today we've changed to 1 unit every 12 hours starting with breakfast this morning.

I woke up without too much pain so I'm going to go to Walmart in a minute for glucose testing supplies and more Fancy Feast. I ordered low carb 100% chicken treats from Amazon and they should arrive later today. I have some high carb food here, but will read about the gravy method too. I'll also read the Lantus board today.

Winny didn't sleep through the night - first time in quite a while that he's been up to high jinx in the middle of the night. He managed to dump my laptop, headphones, water bottle etc on the floor. Seems like old times.

Thank you SO MUCH for all the advice. For the record, I'm in Oklahoma City. I'd actually really like to meet someone else with a diabetic cat.
 
It is great when they start getting back to old habits! :-D :-D

If you buy a Relion meter from walmart you can get the strips for them even cheaper at American Diabetes Warehouse.Arkray is the company that makes them for Walmart. If you got the Relion Confirm or Micro you can use the Arkray Glucocard 01 strips, for the Relion Ultima use the Arkray Gluco card Vital strips. They are cheaper than at the store and you get them delivered right to your door.

This thread is getting a little long, you may want to start a new one, now that you will be testing. :-D I'll put you question about someone in you area in a post and link it to this thread. I hope there is someone nearby.
 
ALRIGHT!!! Welcome from another extra sweet OKIE cat! There's 2 of us here from OK that are active currently, us and Melissa/Tarragon. Unfortunately neither of us are near you. I'm in south central literally on the OK/TX border on Lake Texoma, Melissa and Mr. T are in Tulsa area. I THINK there's a couple of others that use other insulins but I'm not sure about that...maybe Larry and Kitties?

I'm truly glad you're going to go the Walmart Relion route rather than the CVS meters...the strips are much more economical and, IMHO, they work better than many others we've tried.

BIG HUG!
 
Welcome! Good luck and glad you are here. We are in Tulsa as Lyresa said in the previous post. You are starting on the right track and will get there in no time. In the mean time, please let us know if you have ANY questions at all!!
 
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