First experience with low AMPS #

[teresazu]

This is my first post on here. I had quite a time getting Cleo anywhere near regulated, and now that she is finally in the lower numbers, I've been skipping shots, based on PS# and I don't want to send her out of control again. After reading the info on that topic here, I haven't waited because I thought the shot should be pretty much on time within an hour. Plus, she's very thin and doesn't always eat enough, so being hungry at AMPS I quickly feed, not to deprive. However, she doesn't eat alot at one time (her whole life but especially now). So now that I read the tablespoon idea, maybe that would work. I also was under the impression 200 or less is a no shoot number. I am using Relion but I want AlphaTrak2, because I'd really like to see a truer number, especially when it's extra high or low. In this case, for instance, 172 on Relion could actually be above 200 on AT2 which would be an ok shoot number. Plus I can't believe there is no comparison chart, I thought perhaps Human Meter +30=Pet number. Isn't there some general formula to get a better idea?
Anyway, can someone take a look at her trends and share your thoughts? She is on Lantus by the way.

Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...n_rQCB_2CfUmkb8UsoL7c_91E/edit#gid=1526124902

 

[tiffmaxee]

Your spreadsheet isn’t the one that we use here. You are using one from a Facebook group. I can’t see yours on my phone.

There isn’t s comparison chart because you can’t accurately compare meters. Believe me many have tried. Including me as my my backup meter was different from my regular one. What are you feeding? How long on Lantus? Do you have enough test strips and high carb food and can you monitor as long as necessary. What dosing method are you using? Any other health issues? His old us your cat? Good appetite? Would you add all this to your signature once the dosing issue for this cycle is figured out and start our spreadsheet please?

 

[tiffmaxee]

I was in a hurry to answer so now that I’ve read your whole post s few thoughts. I still need most of the info mentioned above. The no shot number changes with data. It’s lowered as your data, ability to monitor increase. When was kitty diagnosed? Once you lower the no shot number you base the dose on nadir which I am sure that you know.

Honestly to me using a human meter keeps cats safe and our riding methods were made with human meters because pet meters weren’t invented I believe! If feeding any dry food you would follow SLGS. The main difference is how quickly you increase the dose and when you increase or decrease.

 

[JoyBee&Ravan]

Please provide more information about Cleo. Her age ,what she eats, does she have any other health problems? ( feeding dry food is not a good idea you can read about why here Info Dry Food - PLEASE consider more than just carbohydrate content )
Also, put a question mark in the title,to let everyone know you're asking for some help.

Nearly everyone here uses a Human Glucose meter. You'll just cause confusion comparing it to the Alph Trak.
I don't give dosing advice but there's a lot of great information in the yellow sticky notes. The more you learn about the insulin & diabetes the easier it will be.
You also need to pick a method for dosing Sticky-- Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

Someone should get to you soon about Cleo's Spread Sheet.

Best of Luck to you both

Hang in there It will get easier. Read as much as you can!

 

[teresazu]

Please provide more information about Cleo. Her age ,what she eats, does she have any other health problems? ( feeding dry food is not a good idea you can read about why here Info Dry Food - PLEASE consider more than just carbohydrate content )
Also, put a question mark in the title,to let everyone know you're asking for some help.

Nearly everyone here uses a Human Glucose meter. You'll just cause confusion comparing it to the Alph Trak.
I don't give dosing advice but there's a lot of great information in the yellow sticky notes. The more you learn about the insulin & diabetes the easier it will be.
You also need to pick a method for dosing Sticky-- Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)

Someone should get to you soon about Cleo's Spread Sheet.

Best of Luck to you both

Hang in there It will get easier. Read as much as you can!

View attachment 54075

Thanks. all of the info, food etc is on the spreadsheet, and also shows started low going slow. no dry, low carb wet only. as mentioned already read that note before posting. the focus isn't on the alpha trak on the moment but on the numbers, how true they are, since relion is considered lower than AT2 and I do intend to switch over, but for the moment, I think I should not have skipped on those 2 AMPS#'s, let see who comments, and I will learn as we go thanks

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome, Terri!

Elise is correct. The spreadsheet you're using was plagiarized from here. It has a tendency to blow up. The "handy" information at the top about when to not give insulin is a bit different than what we suggest.. You have two options with regard to dosing method that you can choose to follow -- Tight Regulation (TR) or Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). They are described in detail in this sticky note that's at the top of the board. With TR, which is a more aggressive approach to dosing and is based on published research, the PS number that you post and ask for help is 150. With SLGS, it's 200.

There is no issue with accuracy of a human meter vs a pet meter. Most of the people here use a human meter. Frankly, pet meters have not been around all that long. The biggest difference is at which point you reduce the dose. It's likely a fairly complicated mathematical formula that would allow conversion between the meters. Despite a preponderance of smart people here, no one has wanted to take on the task (either that, or we haven't found a member with a PhD in mathematics.) It's fine to use either meter. Just be prepared to pay about $1.00 per strip with an AT meter and you will need a good sized stock of strips since you cannot buy strips at a pharmacy if you're running low.

I would urge you to start getting at least a test every night before you go to sleep. With SLGS, you do need at least one spot check during both the AM and PM cycles.

I realize you're following SLGS. You really may want to consider TR given how high Cleo's numbers are. You will be able to increase numbers more frequently with TR. Also, it takes about a week for the insulin depot to become established. That may be why you're seeing blue numbers. Given you're seeing those blue numbers at AMPS, you have no idea how low Cleo went overnight. This is one of the reasons getting PM tests is important. The other reason is that without those tests, you're missing half of your data.

We ask members to follow a couple of conventions to make things easier for everyone. If it's not immediately apparent, this is the busiest insulin support group and board on FDMB. We have a number experienced people who are more than willing to offer help, feedback, etc. Being able to identify if there's a problem based on what's in your subject line (it's what's visible on the board) is very helpful. The information about how to set up a subject line is in this New to the Group sticky. While some of the information may be repetitive, this is a link to a post on basic information, as well.

Sorry about all of the "housekeep" issues. Please let us know if you have questions. The members here are very generous with their time and their knowledge. We're here to help.

 

[teresazu]

you probably noticed I'm already doing the go slow method, and that's fine because she's finally having low numbers more often. I do have some night time readings, and surprisingly one was HI so they are not as low as I thought. are you saying you don't agree with no shot 200 or below? I realize it depends that's why I posted spreadsheet. agree that the different meter would determine differently when to descrease, or skip, as was this morning I would be AT2 would have read over 200 and I would not have skipped and numbers not have shot up like this. I wanted to understand more about the waiting 15 min, and the tablespoon of food, as I explained, not wanting to witthold because she isn't always that eager to eat, and needs some calories.

 

[teresazu]

Welcome, Terri!

so you're saying I am correct with 200 as the preshot number to skip? that's my dilemma right now. I think you wuold agree my trend has been SLGS, as that is the way I learned so far, and so I'm asking about AMPS situation I had twice in a row where I was finally getting good numbers, and the partial feeding and waiting, if someone could just help me with that for now based in the data I already have, and from there I will try to adapt to your way of posting or a new spreadsheet for the future if this one is not acceptable. but if I can still get info for now with what I have that would be great. this is different than what I've been used to. or do you not believe in skipping shot at all? am I in the right thread topic for this? there doesn't seem to be much activity

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I’m not sure what your question is. I will help if I can. I would also stay with the human meter and not swap over to the pet meter.
I would also suggest getting more tests in the pm cycle. It is just as important as the am cycle.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

The difference between the two meters get smaller as numbers get higher. And frankly, the biggest concern is with low numbers.

The "no shot" number really isn't a "don't give insulin" number. It's an unfortunate way of referring to numbers when you're first starting out. It will help if you think of it more in terms of a "post and ask for help" number. Ideally, you will want to be comfortable shooting lower numbers since the ideal Lantus curve is flat.

There are 3 options if you get a number lower than your comfort level:

• Do NOT feed your cat and stall. You'll want to stall for 20 or so minutes and then retest. If numbers are rising by a fair amount, then shoot. If they are still below your comfort level, continue to stall. You can do this for around 2 hours although your cat will not be happy since there's no food. (Also, whenever you stall, your next shot is 12 hours later so it can throw off your schedule.)
• Shoot a reduced dose.
• Skip the shot

Each of these options has an effect on the depot.

If you test and numbers are below 50, do NOT shoot. Even for a very experienced member, a pre-shot test that's below 50 is not safe to shoot. You have zero margin for error. (There is an exceptions to this but it's not worth discussing now.)