first dose of Cyproheptadine but Chicklet is still not eating.

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Chicklet's mom

Member Since 2016
Chicklet was not much eating today so I called the vet to verify if she would be a better candidate for Cyproheptadine vs Mertazapine. The vet informed me that Chicklet could take either of these medications. I decided to get Cypproheptadine even though I had Mertazapine at the house. It has been over an hour and Chicklet is now hiding in a closet and not at all interested in eating. She looks terrified. I am running out of options as she is not getting enough nutrition. Has any cats not responded to Cyproheptadine? I am feeling hopeless right now and just want to cry.

LM
 
Hi LM

I know what you're going through. I was frantic when Saoirse wouldn't eat for me. I really feel for you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

First up, how much does Chicklet weigh and what dose of cypro did you give her?


Mogs
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Hello,

Chicklet weights just a little over 21 lbs. The vet have her 1/4 of a 4 mg tab (1mg). She ate a little bit of hard food today (much less than 1/4 cup). She is fast asleep right now and hiding in the closet. The pill totally knocked her out. She keeps turning her head to me when I introduce hard or soft food. She is actually even less interested in food than she was today. The vet said that the pill may make her groggy but that has made her fall into a deep sleep.

LM
 
The vet wants me to try Mertazapine tomorrow if this doesn't work. I feel the more I try to intervene the worst it gets for Chicklet.

LM
 
Appetite problems are very stressful and scary. Hang in there.

I was wondering whether the dose might make her sleepy or depressed. A little cyproheptadine can go a long way. Just 1/8 of a 4mg tablet (0.5mg) was enough to keep Saoirse eating for hours. Saoirse weighs 10lb. Saoirse would get mildly sedated for about an hour or so and then the appetite stimulant effect would kick in around the 90 minute mark IIRC.

I just want to double-check: can you wake Chicklet? If not, contact your vet immediately to let them know. (Better to be on the safe side.)

It would help a lot if you can post answers to the following questions so we can get a better idea of Chicklet's status:

1. How much has she eaten today? When did she eat before that?

2. Have you tested for ketones? If yes, what was the last result. If no, have you any ketone test strips?

3. Do you have any blood glucose numbers for Chicklet? If yes, please post values and the date/time of the glucose readings. (Looking for highest and lowest numbers over last few days.)

4. Is Chicklet on insulin? If yes, please post insulin type, dose, and the time you gave the last dose.


Back shortly. I need to give Saoirse her insulin.


Mogs
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Here's the link to the nausea symptoms list I posted for you earlier:

Nausea Symptom Checker and Treatment Info (from Tanya's Site)

Is Chicklet showing any signs of nausea? If yes, then an anti-nausea (Cerenia, ondansetron) would be needed along with the cypro. I believe that some people have had success using both of the anti-nausea meds in concert. Saoirse has only been given them separately. Both of them worked for her.

Again, here's the list of tips from Tanya's Site to try to encourage a cat to eat:

Persuading Your Cat to Eat

Maybe if you tried the sleepy eating trick with Chicklet it might help? Also try raising the food up (e.g. put the bowl on top of a few paperback books). Or maybe see if she might eat something from your hand?

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Hi Mogs,

Thanks for checking in with Chicklet and I. I would have responded sooner but I have been so preoccupied with my fur baby. The vet tech gave Chicklet 1/8 of a 15 mg tab of Mirtazepine on Friday. Luckily, there have been no side effects and her appetite increased slightly. I checked her urine for Ketones on Friday and she was negative. I am going to try and check again. Chicklet is no longer willing to use the special litter so I have to be around when she pees. I wanted to give start the insulin but vet is saying she has to eat 1/2 to 3/4 of her food in order to give the shoot. She had a BG level of 20.3 on Saturday morning but she only ate a bit of food in the morning. She ate a bit more during the day yesterday. Could I have given her the shoot at this level even though she did not eat too much food in the AM? Second issue is that it appears to have already worn off and we are not even at the 72 hour mark. She was given the dose at approx. 3:00 PM on Friday. Do I have to wait 72 hours before giving another dose? She actually appeared to have bene more relaxed after the medication. Maybe the antidepressant is not only helping her appetite but helping her mood as well. She is now acting the same way before she was given the pill. She is quite large (just over 21 lbs) so may the 1/8 of a tab wore off more quickly. I am going to give her another dose but wondering if I should wait until tomorrow.

LM
 
Hi Mogs,

Thanks for checking in with Chicklet and I. I would have responded sooner but I have been so preoccupied with my fur baby. The vet tech gave Chicklet 1/8 of a 15 mg tab of Mirtazepine on Friday. Luckily, there have been no side effects and her appetite increased slightly. I checked her urine for Ketones on Friday and she was negative. I am going to try and check again. Chicklet is no longer willing to use the special litter so I have to be around when she pees. I wanted to give start the insulin but vet is saying she has to eat 1/2 to 3/4 of her food in order to give the shoot. She had a BG level of 20.3 on Saturday morning but she only ate a bit of food in the morning. She ate a bit more during the day yesterday. Could I have given her the shoot at this level even though she did not eat too much food in the AM? Second issue is that it appears to have already worn off and we are not even at the 72 hour mark. She was given the dose at approx. 3:00 PM on Friday. Do I have to wait 72 hours before giving another dose? She actually appeared to have bene more relaxed after the medication. Maybe the antidepressant is not only helping her appetite but helping her mood as well. She is now acting the same way before she was given the pill. She is quite large (just over 21 lbs) so may the 1/8 of a tab wore off more quickly. I am going to give her another dose but wondering if I should wait until tomorrow.

LM
I have had success in the past with mirtazepine… I know some cats do not respond well but remember every cat is different. It was a life saver for my Trinity :):bighug:
 
Hi LM,

I'm relieved to hear from you; I was very worried about Chicklet and about you. I lost a cat to hepatic lipidosis (and a dreadful vet) and when Saoirse would not eat for me when she had the really severe pancreatitis flare I was consumed with fear so I have a ringside seat appreciation of how very worried you must be. :bighug:

You'd need to check with your vet about when to give the next dose of mirt to Chicklet. Saoirse's only half the weight of Chicklet and the one mirt dose she had lasted for about 72 hours. All I can share experience-wise is how I administered cyproheptadine to Saoirse. In a nutshell, I gave her a dose then watched her response to food pretty much 24/7 while she was severely inappetent. The vet told me I could give one dose every 8 hours but after Saoirse's mirt scare I was determined to be very cautious with the new med. I logged the time I gave the first dose and then waited till she wouldn't eat under her own steam. Now that I knew she was OK on the cypro I gave her the next dose and again logged the time. It took several (worrying) hours for the appetite stimulant effect to kick in again. Thereafter I would watch her to see when her appetite seemed to be waning. As long as it was later than 8 hours after the previous dose I gave her another dose. Some days she'd only need two doses; some days she'd need three. I aimed to give her the minimum amount of medication to keep her eating. Sometimes I let her go a little bit too long before giving the next dose and there would be a bit of a lag before she'd eat again without coaxing. Saoirse did better when I managed to keep up the momentum of the drug's benefit. As I learned to read her clinical signs better I finally got to the stage where I could optimise the dose timing to keep her eating with ease. I always logged the times I gave the doses and gradually she was able to go longer and longer between doses and I was able to taper her off the cypro.

For information, cyproheptadine can also have an antidepressant effect and I found that it did improve Saoirse's mood. Maybe mirtazapine is similarly helping Chicklet.

An important note; Saoirse also received anti-nausea medication while she was taking cyproheptadine (generic ondansetron). She needed the anti-nausea medication a lot longer than she needed the appetite stimulant. Is Chicklet showing any signs of nausea when you give her the food? Here's a nausea symptom checker. If she is showing signs of nausea there are details of treatments on that page which you might like to discuss with your vets.

Perhaps if you give your vet a ring and ask about the minimum amount of time you should leave between doses of mirtazapine for Chicklet and an anti-nausea treatment if appropriate it might help you to get a regimen in place which is ideal for Chicklet. It might be an idea to ask your vet if a course of B12 injections might help Chicklet, too; it can help with appetite.

I am very relieved for you that Chicklet is eating again. Even if there is still a way to go before she's eating normally it's a big step forward. I am, however, worried that your vet is insisting that you completely withhold insulin while Chicklet is having difficulty eating. As discussed previously, the standard recipe for DKA is lack of food + lack of insulin + infection (or other systemic stressor). With the inappetence problem and numbers as high as 20.3mmol/L that really worries me; withholding all insulin will put two of those pillars in place. I'm not familiar with Prozinc but other members here are. I'm tagging @Sue and Oliver (GA) and @Meya14 to see whether they're online and might be able to advise you better.

If I were in your boat I would immediately start getting BG readings every 2-3 hours and log when Chicklet eats and how much. I would then go back to the vet as soon as possible with that data since it will provide evidence of where Chicklet's BG levels are and be a guide for safe dosing. Tell the vet in no uncertain terms that you are concerned about risk of DKA. Ask the vet for a "no shoot" number and advice on a token dose to give Chicklet so that she gets at least some insulin. I would also ask the vet (and also here) for a recommendation on a very calorie-dense food to give to Chicklet for the time being: she needs calories right now and if she's only eating very little, the more calories you can pack into the small amount of food the better. Needless to say, monitor very closely for ketones. Both of you have enough to contend with already. I hope your vet will be helpful. If you get nowhere with the vet, post for assistance here.

I hope some of the above helps. We're here for you both, LM. Update us when you can. :bighug:



Mogs
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I agree with Mogs. No insulin + no food is a bad combination. Our general advice is to consider a half dose when their appetite is off. Perhaps your vet would agree with this approach? Be sure you can monitor one cycle when you do this - so if she drops, you can intervene.
 
I concur with giving token insulin doses. You will have to monitor her BS throughout the day and know how to intervene. Often, during illness a couple things happen even if a cat isn't eating.

Cortisol is being released and causing the liver to convert more fat into sugar. Sick cats can still be hyperglycemic due to liver/cortisol action. This can lead to hepatic lipidosis/DKA without food and insulin. Insulin should still be given to account for the hyperglycemia.

The other thing that happens is dehydration when a cat is not eating properly. Dehydration will concentrate the sugar that is already floating around in the blood and make a cat hyperglycemic. Hyperglycemia also causes the kidneys to produce more urine, which turns into a cycle of dehydration. You may want to ask about subQ fluids as well if she isn't taking in any foods or fluids. 300ml per day is the average oral intake, this includes the moisture in wet food. To calculate, look at the %moisture, and multiply by the total grams of food. 1gram of water = 1ml. EX: A 5.5oz can of friskies has 78% moisture * 156gr = 121.68gr = 121.68ml roughly.

My question/concern is regarding the cause of the poor appetite. Diabetes alone often causes pretty ravenous hunger. She doesn't have ketones which is a common cause of nausea/anorexia. So other causes may be pancreatitis/liver issues/or illness unrelated to the diabetes. Also if she is a new diabetic you may want to consider that the diabetes is secondary to another illness (thyroid issues, dental infection, other infection) and may resolve once those issues are addressed. If you don't know the root of it, you and your vet need to figure out the cause, so you can better treat.
 
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